The Syndicate

The two person POE seems ... fine? here. The final three would then probably be me, Nanook, Hyena.

Hyena's gambit here seems unnecessary. I don't know what to do about that.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:19 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 am
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:49 am @speedchuck I don't think I understand your post but I'm having trouble articulating why. I'll keep trying.
TL;DR

Jack wants to clear the entire old POE (Tony, Juliets, Wilgy) because MP was comfortable with it as is.
I counter that MP didn't have the time or opportunity to change that POE in the first place, but possibly indicated that he wanted to.

linki: Jack answered too.
And I'd like to add that just because MP agreed with a POE doesn't mean it doesn't include his teammates.

POEs change. And if I am mafia I ideally want to be my teammates' second favorite option, forever.

Juliets has occupied this role this game.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:00 pm I'm not sure how much weight to put into claims.

Like I'm a generic MSNBC reporter so a generic virus denier could be a thing.

More to the point, just about everyone has flipped as a character or a program or whatever while both wolves flipped as "groups of people doing stupid things."

Like...I don't expect the last wolf to claim group of people doing stupid things and just because Wilgy claimed singular person doing a stupid thing doesn't make him a wolf.

I take Wilgy's claim more seriously because of this.

Maybe no one left is scum.

But I don’t even know if I can justify that.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:58 am I really just don't think it's hyena, guys. I just don't.

I understand why I'm in Jack's POE and it sucks, though I can't do anything about that. But if I get lynched, as is probable, and then hyena gets lynched, there will only be one day left to find the actual person. F3. I'd rather it not reach that point because Jack will probably die and leave it with 3 of Wilgy, Juliets, Tony, and Nanook.

How TF is town going to solve that?

I think Nanook gets lynched there. Which is problematic because at least it feels like Juliets should be in POE.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:36 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:20 am I am going to push back against your reasoning without pushing back against your conclusion.

MP was always going to be in the POE unless he pulled himself out of it. He was very bussable. He was also very bussable D2 when it didn't look like there was a likely Sloonei replacement.
Nah, F that.

Look at it this way, we had a POE of 4, right?

WRONG

We had a POE of three unless one of those three happened to be a scumlynch. Numbers are important. I don't believe for a second, with this ever-narrowing POE, that scum took initiative in pre-emptively bussing one of their remaining members. Not when the game could be won a day earlier with MP in the slot.

This doesn’t work they way I think you’re saying, so I might misunderstand you.

If it’s MP/Juliets, he’s comfortable with a 4 person POE with Juliets but not a 4 person POE with him AND Juliets.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:34 am I think it's Hyena because I don't want it to be Speedchuck and I think it's Speedchuck because I don't want it to be Hyena.

Careful, last time I said this Sloonei lynched me.
Sometimes I feel like I hold grudges for too long, but then one of y’all will be like “in 2013 Epi lynched me for this wrong reason” and I realize we’re all petty.

And obviously confounding factors exist, but that anything that can possibly give game information can and should be taken into account.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:31 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:24 pm He also hasn’t showed today. I can’t imagine being scum and not showing up. That’s a sort of out of game clear, but oh well.
We seriously need to drop this concept.

If you are busy irl and you think you can't play, you will not show up for a forum game regardless of whtehr your teammates are in a chat with you or not.

I’m never going to take the concept as any sort of positive evidence. But I can say that if I’m slacking off early game, I’m almost guaranteed town. I think the opposite applies for some people. It has a place.

Assuming it’s 2-1 wagonomics also comes into play here. Nanook/DDL both had to switch. I can’t see it being Nanook based on that.

One of Speed or Juliets is the “easy” option, but there are good reasons to consider both town.

But I also seriously don’t think Wilgy comes in and makes a fuss at the end of Day 3, especially defending me, if he seriously thinks it can end poorly, which it had a good chance of doing. He’s almost guaranteed town. Like everyone else.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:31 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:23 am Final note: Wilgy claimed “generic virus naysayer”. Take a look at the flips so far. Obviously we have no tell if there actually is a scum there, but I don’t like the claim.
Yeah me neither but still. I said Wilgy/MP basically couldn't be a scumteam cause then it meant Wilgy, alone, came into the thread and starting laying down major heat on his teammate that he shouldn't know had been daykilled a few hours earlier.

Plus like other reasons that escape me atm because it's late.

Oh yeah that’s the one team comp that protects him from derping.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:23 am Final note: Wilgy claimed “generic virus naysayer”. Take a look at the flips so far. Obviously we have no tell if there actually is a scum there, but I don’t like the claim.

Wilgy, sorry if you didn’t want this revealed. Thought it was pretty minor.

Final note: Wilgy claimed “generic virus naysayer”. Take a look at the flips so far. Obviously we have no tell if there actually is a scum there, but I don’t like the claim.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:18 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:14 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:51 pm @TonyStarkPrime @DrWilgy Can ya'll confirm where your votes were before the switch to MP at the end?
Uh, I think mine was on MP and Wilgy on not there. I’m guessing Epi didn’t count it. It was 2v1 in that casw
Right. You were both on ???Nanook??? and then you switched to MP and Wilgy stayed on Nanook?

Linki: Yeah, I want to explore that possibility. I think Wilgy's reaction to the lynch was townie. I just want to know everything I can about the movement and explanations for it at the end.

I don’t know, I think I was on Jules until I switched to MP. I wasn’t really around in the last half an hour, so I only switched my vote and moved on.

Maybe it’s notable that Wilgy said he wanted to save me but wouldn’t vote for MP, but I think it’s likely just a mechanical inefficiency.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:55 pm I finally caught .

You're screwed going forward because I figured out you have the same tell as Glor. :haha

Expect "Sloonei is nothing like his last scum game" jokes in your near future.

Sloonei has swapped out in two of the three games I’ve played with him where he was scum.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:51 pm @TonyStarkPrime @DrWilgy Can ya'll confirm where your votes were before the switch to MP at the end?

Uh, I think mine was on MP and Wilgy on not there. I’m guessing Epi didn’t count it. It was 2v1 in that casw

I didn’t get a poll in for obvious reasons. We’ll have a gimmick less day.

First time here on the syndicate. He made a habit of it on the realms

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:29 pm IM JUST TRYING TO LOVE YOU

For what it’s worth, this will mark the first time Jack has mislynched me as town. Given a pretty stellar record, something to keep in mind.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:26 pmCFD Nanook?

thanks for the support buddy you can be town

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:22 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:16 pm read the first page of his iso he's almost as committed to lynching MR as MR was to lynching me.
Read: DDL went after MR like 5x as hard as MR went on Tony.

I just checked. It wasn't all that.

this is accurate. I was being glib.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:17 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:14 pm It's not DDL
So it's you?

No it's clearly not me I don't know how I became a tinfoil candidate in the span of like five hours in this game

read the first page of his iso he's almost as committed to lynching MR as MR was to lynching me.

It's not DDL

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:11 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:10 pm Interesting. Did ddl call mr scum for this or did the exchange die?
DDL ended the day with a vote on MR, and Hyena and I followed him. MR almost got lynched. He never recanted, far as I can tell.

If this is it, DDL deserves a seriously deeper look. Speed's case is much cleaner.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:08 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:05 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:03 pm Why won’t you accept my love Tony
paranoia, I guess. I think whenever I'm in a POE my natural response is to start reaching for the mastermind behind all this instead of just reaching for the fifth most likely name or whatever.
I’ve been defending you tho, you haven’t really been in my POE. Like I’ve actively tried to keep you out of the POE.

I know. I'm thinking about that now. I don't think that behavior makes sense as scum with Juliets -- I was justifying it as a sort of TMI thing, but Juliets is a likely lynch candidate as well. You have enough town credit to take easier outs.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:07 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:00 pm Thanks Wilgy!

Hmmm... that is an interesting hypothesis, usually I've heard that referred to as the rule of three, like scum tends to put scummate in a pool like that and two other townies, but I'm not sure how often that's actually happened.
Happens every time I don’t think about it. Which is why I purposely mix in other ratios as a wolf.

I just list groups of town players. But in 2/3 of my scum games, when I die, my teammate has more or less resigned on the spot or been lynched the next day. Maybe all 3. I don't remember the one I got lynched like an hour into day 1.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:03 pm Why won’t you accept my love Tony

paranoia, I guess. I think whenever I'm in a POE my natural response is to start reaching for the mastermind behind all this instead of just reaching for the fifth most likely name or whatever.

okay so

Juliets
Nanook
MP if not Juliets
DDL if not Nanook.
Maybe?

Okay I'm not going two games in a row where the scum team tries to lynch me day 1 and then everyone manages to convince themselves it's social distancing and lynches me anyways. It's just the same thing with different vegetables every time

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:54 pm I hope everyone understands Jack is joking.

The thing where he said he was joking was good help to that.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:51 pm So heads up, I told tsp my role n power and stuff.

it's boring and he doesn't use it and I barely believe it but he told it in a convincing manner.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:48 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:47 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:43 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:39 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:36 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:36 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:34 pm Fun fact, Tony has alignment equity with Juliets and Wilgy.

Says the guy who gth put it as Tony + MP.

I’m anticipating a loss.
What is "alignment equity"?
Like, teammate compatible for scum/mafia purposes.
Ok, so then I don't understand why I'm teammate compatible with Tony and Wilgy.
Yeah I didn't think Juliets had equity with Tony. I'd be surprised if they were w/w.
Are we just going to Lynch players with low equity with Juliets until we lose the game? That's seriously not a winning strategy.
???

Me voting you has nothing whatsoever to do with your Juliets equity.

That wasn't my implication but actually I'm curious why you think I have low equity with Juliets.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:46 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:46 pm and poe throw in MP2 if Juliets flips scum and probably Hyena if Nanook flips scum but Wilgy is about to tell me why not Hyena

Linki Jack learn to count
Linki 2 oh
Haven't enough people told you why not hyena at this point?

Did... anyone tell me why not? I haven't read carefully since I got back.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:43 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:39 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:36 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:36 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:34 pm Fun fact, Tony has alignment equity with Juliets and Wilgy.

Says the guy who gth put it as Tony + MP.

I’m anticipating a loss.
What is "alignment equity"?
Like, teammate compatible for scum/mafia purposes.
Ok, so then I don't understand why I'm teammate compatible with Tony and Wilgy.
Yeah I didn't think Juliets had equity with Tony. I'd be surprised if they were w/w.

Are we just going to Lynch players with low equity with Juliets until we lose the game? That's seriously not a winning strategy.

and poe throw in MP2 if Juliets flips scum and probably Hyena if Nanook flips scum but Wilgy is about to tell me why not Hyena

Linki Jack learn to count
Linki 2 oh

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:37 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:36 pm
Spoiler: show
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:35 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:22 pm

Well, hopefully that is helpful. Interestingly, Tony is the overwhelming option for scum.

If all of DDL, Hyena, Jack, and Nanook are indeed town, I think we've won? Almost.
Well, if we add Wilgy's onto this, it changes to:

DDL 4-1
Wilgy 2-3
Hyena 5-0
Jack 5-0
juliets 2-3
Nanook 6-0
MP7 3-2
speed 5-1
Tony 1-5
Why are some people at 6 total and some 5 total?
Nanook, speed, and Tony didn't participate (6), the rest of us did (5), which means we had to read ourselves and I didn't count those.

I just got back, gimme a sec.
T
T
T
T
S
S
T
T

Can I have an explanation on DDL?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:28 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:25 pm Seriously, you can’t tell if “everyone has BTSC” is a towns power or not? Double lynch? These are definitely strongly Town favored options. @jackie
I don’t want to tell you how to use the later in a game breaking way but hell I voted for it.

not very helpful

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:27 pm Secret TK is not town sided.

Yesterday was a pretty much perfect example why.

Mmm, you’re wrong. I think. I don’t know. I don’t think it’s stupidly broken for town, but it’s almost certainly a better baseline.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:27 pm Who is that regarding? Wilgy or MP?

Well MP is definitely here so...
(Checks discord) oh so is Wilgy.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:25 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:24 pm
Spoiler: show
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:22 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:20 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:57 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:52 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:48 pm That’s a pretty bad vote Tony
Why? Who am I supposed to vote? I can be pretty easily goaded as town, but I don’t feel that this matches Speed’s scum games at all. Juliets is... I don’t know.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p603559

Is there a reason wilgy and MP are nonstarters for you?

Also weren’t you on chuck like 20 minutes ago
I’m hesitant to lynch a first day replacement. Wilgy is my partner. He won’t agree to voting for himself.
Ah right forgot wilgy wasn’t possible for you.

Fair enough then, carry on
He also hasn’t showed today. I can’t imagine being scum and not showing up. That’s a sort of out of game clear, but oh well.
How do you figure?

I mean, second sentence sort of does the work. I think if he’s scum, he feels more of a responsibility to try to replace out if he can’t be around than if he’s town and thinks he can play later, and scum is more fun so you’re around more anyways? maybe?

Seriously, you can’t tell if “everyone has BTSC” is a towns power or not? Double lynch? These are definitely strongly Town favored options. @jackie

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:22 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:20 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:57 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:52 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:48 pm That’s a pretty bad vote Tony
Why? Who am I supposed to vote? I can be pretty easily goaded as town, but I don’t feel that this matches Speed’s scum games at all. Juliets is... I don’t know.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p603559

Is there a reason wilgy and MP are nonstarters for you?

Also weren’t you on chuck like 20 minutes ago
I’m hesitant to lynch a first day replacement. Wilgy is my partner. He won’t agree to voting for himself.
Ah right forgot wilgy wasn’t possible for you.

Fair enough then, carry on

He also hasn’t showed today. I can’t imagine being scum and not showing up. That’s a sort of out of game clear, but oh well.

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:30 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:42 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:23 pm Hey Tony, what are your reads right now?
I’m willing to townclear Jack. I think I’ll have an opportunity to examine Wilgy today — I don’t think he should be cleared long term for his derp, but it’s worth something.
Nanook and Hyena are the typical townreads. I’m less sure on both of them. I thought Hyena was scum early, but they’ve contributed a fair amount. Nanook probably sorts himself pretty quickly— there are obvious places to start for any sort of analysis. Your slot is vague and I haven’t played with you before (unless you count your first day), so I’m basically now trying to get ahold of your day 1 meta. That leaves Speed and Juliets. I cannot read Juliets. Nutella was pretty certain she was scum, but that softened towards the end and there’s always a certain town energy here to not lynch the rival train from the day before. Speed is left— I don’t think he’s playing like he had previous times I’ve seen him as scum, but he seems to me both the most likely to be scum and the most likely to provide information in his defense.
This is my participation for today, but Ive constructed a light schedule for myself tomorrow so I should be around more.

oh yeah the following sentences seem to answer your question.

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:20 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:50 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:42 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:39 pm Okay, I’m not dying today.
I also think we’re probably going about this all wrong and we need to be considering different names. For the life of me I don’t know where to start.
What do you mean? That's yet to be determined.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:40 pm Vote: Hyena for now
I'm getting really tired of reminding people why Hyena is townread. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
I’m channeling my inner Jack. I think I know why Hyena is townread, but if you have something succinct, please give me two sentences.

You’re in the big group, with him, right?
Why did YOU townread Hyena?

When did I state a townread on you?
I don’t feel compelled particularly to justify it, I think I haven’t really had a read on you all game. I might have put you on the town side of a list, but I don’t think I ever was willing to call you Town.

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