The Syndicate

Hey guys, sorry I had to bow out. I'm leaving the country today for vacation and would not have had enough internet to play. Thanks to the hosts and all the other players for the game!

I am currently thinking MP and Dizzy should be the next two lynches. Someone feel free to contradict me.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Uuuuuuugh.

SVS, you better be town. We could so afford to keep LC around.
How do you figure? His role literally says he must be the last man standing to win. Right?
His role also says he has a 60% chance to kill every third night and has no buddies.

I'd have rather lynched any other baddie or neutral.

Think of it this way: he was a possible kill tonight (even if only a 60% chance). No other lynch would have stopped a kill.

The more I think about it, the more I think Moving Pictures was trying to frame me as gfish's buddy. So I definitely want him to go. I'd rather lynch him today but it looks like SVS will be the lynch in the end.

Thinking about it in hindsight, I wouldn't be surprised if MP's attempt to paint me as gfish's teammate was actually suggested by gfish himself once he knew he was going down.

I feel like movingpictures and SVS voting for themselves is them pretty much giving up and admitting to being mafia. Am I wrong about this? Why are you voting for yourselves?

Fredwood wrote:
Adam wrote:
Fredwood wrote:Distancing...she just said she's okay in her book.
For the ease of the reader, I've changed all the gender-related pronouns
That was a joke post more then anything.

Mine was also a joke post. Arrested Development.

Long Con wrote:
Long Con wrote:nutella-yes, sprityo-no

Wilgy do you understand Epi's list?
Wilgy has answered "S~V~S", so I'll take that as a maybe.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:What good does knowing if Wigly understands Epi's list? What's your best case scenario for this line of thinking?
It's not the most pertinent question, just want to get the lines of information flowing a little. If he answered yes then there would be some follow-up questions about the list, I suppose.

Wilgy: adam-yes, Nifty-no.... are you voting S~V~S because you want to lynch her?

Jack, feel free to ask Wilgy all the right questions. He's not my toy alone, I'm just playing with him for now.

S~V~S wrote:Show of hands~ does ANYONE think Jack is a civ?
I kind of do a bit. His "how many Mafia do I have to catch?" schtick is somewhat convincing. How involved was he in the lynches of GFish and Silver? I do recall his heavy pressure to vote Silver. Was it bussing? Did he do a lot to get GFish lynched? I forget. Maybe you can focus on those things for your Jack case, because it seems to be the main defense he's going for.

Jack was the main cause of action that got Silver lynched. Gfish he just hopped on the train as self-preservation.

Fredwood wrote:Distancing...she just said she's okay in her book.

For the ease of the reader, I've changed all the gender-related pronouns

Sorry I haven't been around, I've been sick the past two days. I'll be trying to catch up tomorrow.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Adam has never been part of the "never trust Jack" club.

LOL that's just because I balked at the silly hats they have to wear.

Yea, I haven't voted for you at any point because I'm not really getting the scum vibe from you. I can't say I've been getting the strong town vibe from you either yet. I still haven't figured out what to make of you.

Moving vote to Silver

MovingPictures07 wrote:Can someone point me to the case on Silver Lantern?

It's two things.

1) Meta, HCR folk think Silver fits mafia Silver meta more than town Silver meta
2) He hasn't done much other than defend himself against the meta accusations.

Less than 20 minutes left.

Is it considered bad etiquette here to lynch a silenced player?

Long Con wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
TonyStarkPrime wrote:So are we thinking Silver was silenced or just is absent? He doesn't have a vote up.
Good point about the vote. Dunno.
What's the usual on HCR? Silencing that stops you from voting? Maybe he assumes he can't vote, if silenced?

On HCR, usually silenced players can't vote (because there we have to post to vote) and also silenced players are usually immune to being lynched. Stops the scum play of trying to lynch someone who can't defend themselves.

Looks like both mafias have a possible silencing role. It'd be too funny if Jack and Silver silenced each other.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Adam wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I have to finish these journal reviews, should be around starting hopefully within the next hour or so, then will be here off and on through EoD. First order of business will be investigating Nifty, LC, and whomever else you all think deserves higher priority for whatever reason. Let me know your requests if you have any please.
If you're after gfish's teammates, high priority should be those who tried to lynch the Geth.
Anyone? You don't think there's any way to discern which of those seemed sincere versus insincere in that treatment?

Sorry, I don't understand the question, in what treatment?

Long Con wrote:
Adam wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I have to finish these journal reviews, should be around starting hopefully within the next hour or so, then will be here off and on through EoD. First order of business will be investigating Nifty, LC, and whomever else you all think deserves higher priority for whatever reason. Let me know your requests if you have any please.
If you're after gfish's teammates, high priority should be those who tried to lynch the Geth.
I still want to lynch Epignosis, who may or may not be The Geth. Do you think I'm GFish's teammate?

I honestly don't know. You are being very upfront about wanting to lynch Epi, and have been consistently since he claimed. Loud in a townie way, when I would think the rest of Cerberus would be more non-committal.

So I don't know. Do you think I'm gfish's teammate?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I have to finish these journal reviews, should be around starting hopefully within the next hour or so, then will be here off and on through EoD. First order of business will be investigating Nifty, LC, and whomever else you all think deserves higher priority for whatever reason. Let me know your requests if you have any please.

If you're after gfish's teammates, high priority should be those who tried to lynch the Geth.

Fredwood wrote:Well, I'm not looking to do jobs for people, but I have a hunch and if I'm right Spirit is a reaper.

I'll follow you on this one, although I still don't think I'm picking up what you're putting down.

vote sprityo

Fredwood wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Holy crap, Nifty broke the site.

Good on you.

Adam, I just voted you so I could see the poll w/o mashing the "see votes" button very time.

LC. If I were bad and wanted to get you lynched would I do it through a fakeslip? What other reason can you gather why I'd do that? What reason would I call you bad?

I think we should Lynch Sprityo today. And will vote there. Explanation will come after.
Under the sea, lalalalala don't be shy????

SooooOOOOO that's why Wilgy stood up for Epi.

I don't understand this post at all.

I've yet to see anyone voting for me address my points. Except Wilgy, who moved off of me, and apparently only voted for me because my name was at the top of the poll.

I'll move my vote off Wilgy but I don't know to who yet. I just didn't like his ninja vote on me.

I don't like moving picture deciding to look at my interactions with gfish and no one else's. I also don't like nutella following the train of a player who has admitted they haven't read most of the thread.

Nifty, why is your vote on me?

CaptainNifty wrote:
Adam wrote:
CaptainNifty wrote:
Linki: Regarding what Adam just said. Voting Wigly is seriously scum. Fred is in my face and it makes me uncomfortable, but voting for him is ridiculous. Wigly is in your face, but he's clearly civ. vote Adam
Ebwop: Additionally, why do you say Wilgy is clearly civ? He pushed to lynch gfish, but we have two scum teams here, and there's nothing stopping Wilgy from being Reaper.
Because pretty much everyone from his home site is reading him that way.

Not to mention he's clearly scum hunting. Got anything other than he's pushing for you?

EBWOP: not to mention Long Con is not reading him that way.

And scum hunting for Cerberus =/= town.

CaptainNifty wrote:
Adam wrote:
CaptainNifty wrote:
Linki: Regarding what Adam just said. Voting Wigly is seriously scum. Fred is in my face and it makes me uncomfortable, but voting for him is ridiculous. Wigly is in your face, but he's clearly civ. vote Adam
Ebwop: Additionally, why do you say Wilgy is clearly civ? He pushed to lynch gfish, but we have two scum teams here, and there's nothing stopping Wilgy from being Reaper.
Because pretty much everyone from his home site is reading him that way.

Not to mention he's clearly scum hunting. Got anything other than he's pushing for you?

Point me to where he's pushing for me? He's not, that's my point.

CaptainNifty wrote:
Linki: Regarding what Adam just said. Voting Wigly is seriously scum. Fred is in my face and it makes me uncomfortable, but voting for him is ridiculous. Wigly is in your face, but he's clearly civ. vote Adam

Ebwop: Additionally, why do you say Wilgy is clearly civ? He pushed to lynch gfish, but we have two scum teams here, and there's nothing stopping Wilgy from being Reaper.

CaptainNifty wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
@Nifty - You said in your post that Nut was scum read by everyone? When? That is not how I've perceived it.

Once upon a time, there were 7 little ducklings living in the back yard of a beautiful house in the country side somewhere in Murica. The little ducklings had lost their mother, but fortunately they were not alone as they had a dog of an unspecified breed to look after them and raise them as they were his own. This, of course, had a peculiar effect on the little ducklings, who instead of quacking were heard barking loudly from time to time. "Let's play catch the ball!" said one of the little ducklings, and off they ran as fast as their little duck feet would alow them.

Linki: stuff.
I'll try to go and find everyone during the first two day phases that said they didn't trust nut, but that will probably take awhile.

Funny enough, we had a duck that used to chase the dog around the yard. He was scared to go outside for some time.

Linki: Regarding what Adam just said. Voting Wigly is seriously scum. Fred is in my face and it makes me uncomfortable, but voting for him is ridiculous. Wigly is in your face, but he's clearly civ. vote Adam

Wigly's actually not in my face at all. Are you actually paying attention?

Dyslexicon wrote:
@Adam - I don't know how other sites does it with giving out roles, and I specifically don't know how Cindy Kate does it, but I always assume roles to be 100% randomly generated. I think what site you're from doesn't matter at all in this regard. Also, you say that Gfish's teammates would be on the Epi train - who specifically are you talking about?

If you're setting up a crossover mafia game, made specifically to allow two communities to mingle, wouldn't it defeat the purpose to have a team comprised of members of only one side?

With a mafia of 3 people and equal numbers of players from both sides, you've got almost a 1 in 4 chance for each mafia of them being from the same site, which means at least one of the two mafias would be from one site close to 50% of the time. If I were modding, I would create a game setup to intentionally mingle communities.

If this is true, that would mean that gfish definitely has one Syndicate teammate, and it's possible both his teammates are are Syndicate players. But I don't see anyone examining any Syndicate players as possible Cerberus.

I am voting DrWilgy, because I don't really like this stealth voting mechanism where votes can be placed and moved without leaving a trace.

I want the people voting for me to answer me:

1) Why, if I am gfish's Cerberus teammate, that I didn't push for Epi's lynch yesterday once he revealed he was Geth?

and

2) Why, if I am gfish's Cerberus teammate, would I point out that a mafia gfishfunk would make a play to try and get opposing scum lynched, like he tried on Epi?

S~V~S wrote:
Adam wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Spoiler: show
Adam wrote:Pairs of players who are not mafia teammates:

Jack and Dom
Jack and SVS
Silver and SVS
Silver and Jack
Gfish and Epi
Long Con and Epi
Nifty and TSP
DrWilgy and gfish

Not as long of a list as I thought it would be.
I'm not sure what inspired this set of conclusions. Perhaps Adam can elaborate here.
I'm not sure what your question is. Do you think it's likely that any of the above are teammates together? I can go point by point if you want.
I think it's a cultural thing. Do you folk at HCR throw teammates under the bus early and often for distancing? That is fairly common here, so people who are aggressively sparring in thread could still be teammates. Like one game MP and I were teammates, and he was making a case on me from pretty much his first post. I personally am not a fan of that baddie playstyle, but it IS common here.

MP thinks you are suspicious for a possible cultural difference?

On HCR, not the level of distancing exhibited by those pairs of players. There's generally not the playstyle of actively trying to lynch your teammates. I would be impressed if any of the above were that committed.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Spoiler: show
Adam wrote:Pairs of players who are not mafia teammates:

Jack and Dom
Jack and SVS
Silver and SVS
Silver and Jack
Gfish and Epi
Long Con and Epi
Nifty and TSP
DrWilgy and gfish

Not as long of a list as I thought it would be.
I'm not sure what inspired this set of conclusions. Perhaps Adam can elaborate here.

I'm not sure what your question is. Do you think it's likely that any of the above are teammates together? I can go point by point if you want.

Long Con
Dyslexicon
Immortal_Raven
JackofHearts
Captain Nifty
gfishfunk

I may or may not be missing other votes for Epignosis after his Geth reveal, I kind of hate how you can move your vote around the poll without there being any record of it.

But I guarantee you Cerberus is on that lynch.

I also am very confident at least one Syndicateer is Cerberus.

Who else voted for Epi that I missed? Nifty mentioned there were 5 votes when he threw down, I don't know if that includes all 5 from above or not.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Interactive analysis of gfishfunk and Adam

*SNIP*

I was the first one to suggest that gfish was scum who had caught other scum with his roleblock gambit. I suggested it as a possibility when I thought Epi was town. After Epi made his dramatic reveal, I pointed out that gfish was likely scum who knew Epi was not town and was trying to lynch him.

Why would I bring that idea to the thread if gfish was my teammate?

And again, if I was Cerberus, why was I not pushing for the Epi lynch after he came out as Geth? Epignosis was pretty obviously the optimal Cerebrus lynch yesterday, and it would not have been hard at all to join that train at any point. And I guarantee you that gfish's teammates were on the Epi train after he revealed himself as Geth.

I also am fairly confident that the mods wouldn't create mafias that were all from one site in a crossover game. I would bet dollars to donuts that gfish had a Syndicateer for a teammate. The third teammate could be either HCR or Syndicate.

Adam wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Adam wrote:
DrWilgy wrote: How does that work in this environment?
I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?
So, now instead of explaining the wagon with the most votes as a pressure, how about you tell me what you think of Gfish and Nifty? How do you feel about them being the only 2 voting with you?
They're both playing as I expect them to. Nifty's gotten a lot better recently with his tells and behaving consistently no matter his alignment. I started off reading him a little on the scum side, but I don't know if that's recency bias or not. Gfish has been playing loud, but nothing he's done so far is inconsistent with how he would play as town. He also tends to intentionally play as a scum-seeming townie, which provides him with cover when he's bad.

This role block of Epi tells me: Someone definitely role blocked (or attempted to role block) Epi

I see multiple scenarios for how gfish would act
1) If gfish was a town RB, I would expect him to call out Epi, especially if it was a one-shot RB
2) If gfish was mafia in a game with only one mafia, I don't think he would out the target of his RB because he knows it would be town
3) In this game with two mafias, and gfish was on one of the two mafias and thought he stopped the opposing mafia's kill with a RB, he would definitely fight full force to get that player lynched and be a successful scum hunter.

If in the end gfish had not backed off of Epi, I think he would be mafia, but based on how easily he let it go once Epi claimed, my inclination is that gfish is town.

This first post took place after Epi had (hint)claimed town and before he claimed Geth. It was an analysis made on the belief that Epignosis was town.

Adam wrote:Fred is taking the lead as confirmed town and I like it.

Epi being non-town makes me suspect gfish a little more. Scum gfish only makes the blocked kill gambit if he thinks he's caught other scum.

I like Epi's gambit. Those pushing for his lynch now are most likely Cerberus, I'm thinking. Easy non-mafia lynch.

Dom seems extraordinarily focused on Jack. Wilgy seems almost as focused on gfish. I feel like gfish and Jack haven't interacted as much as on Day 2 as on Day 1. Possibly teammates? I could definitely see a mafia with Jack and gfish going for cbob night 1.
Not sure how I feel about Dom. Wilgy seems townish to me. I also like S~V~S's play so far.

I like that TSP is getting in the game a bit. I haven't seen much from sprityo but what I'm seen feels civ. Dyslexicon seems less involved today than yesterday. nutella I'm still unsure about. I also haven't seen mp much today.

I don't like that Silver hasn't contributed much of anything so far. I like Fred's analysis of that situation.

This second post is after Epi revealed as Geth. The fact that the player gfish was gunning for was non-town made it far more likely in my eyes that gfish's mafia discovered Epi was not town and wanted to lynch him.

If I were gfish's Cerberus teammate, I would not have so easily backed off Epi in the first place if I thought he was lying about being town, and I would have jumped right back onto Epi's train when it turned out he was Geth. Most of the day was spent with the largest trains on Jack and Epignosis, and it would have been really easy and justified for me to park on the Epi train and stay there, but I never did. If I was Cerberus, I would absolutely want Geth gone and pushing for it. It's such an easy case to make as Cerberus. Gfish's teammates are almost assuredly voting for Epignosis after he came out as Geth.

EBWOP: My content got included inside the quote tag there, apparently.

Dom wrote:Why Adam Might Be Cerberus

Adam, leading up to gfish's lynch, made five posts in which he mentioned gfish.

Post #1: A Read List where he lists him as a civ read.

Here, he takes the side of gfish against epignosis.

"my inclination is that gfish is town"

With very little explanation, his read switches to bad.

His vote on gfish

It's not very little explanation.

I laid it out in an earlier post. If there were only one mafia, a scum gfish would not have come out with the RB against Epi. But in a two mafia game, he would definitely do that if he thought he found someone on the other scum team. A possibly-Reaper aligned neutral fits that.

After Epi's tuck and roll claim was brought to light, and I thought Epi was town, I assumed gfish was also town, because I couldn't see mafia gfish going after a townie that hard on a RB. I assumed gfish was town that made a mistake. When it turned out Epi is a possibly town-hostile neutral, it made me think gfish is more likely scum, because scum gfish will make a big play to try and lynch rival scum and earn himself town cred.
What do we think?

nutella wrote:Awesome result! I'll do some investigating later to see if I can figure out who might be gfish's teammates, I bet there's a busser or two in the last few votes. Maybe Adam, he voted with no real explanation and had some suspicious interaction with gfish earlier re: voting for epi.

Wilgy, why do you think I'm reaper??
Ftr I think Silver is probably reaper especially after what he said about epi siding with town.

I'm also the one who pointed out that gfish was either town thinking he blocked a kill or mafia that had discovered opposing scum. This was before Epi's Geth reveal. Why would I plant that seed if I was with gfish?

Switch vote to gfish

Pairs of players who are not mafia teammates:

Jack and Dom
Jack and SVS
Silver and SVS
Silver and Jack
Gfish and Epi
Long Con and Epi
Nifty and TSP
DrWilgy and gfish

Not as long of a list as I thought it would be.

gfishfunk wrote:
Adam wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Adam

Specifically, what posts that SVS has made do you like and why?
Is there a way to get post numbers or am I going to have to do this the hard way?
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/postin ... 1326&f=194

Its in the normal place. Same as the realms.

No, I didn't mean the post count of the players. I mean, what number is this post, and can I go back and refer to a particular post by number instead of having to quote each one I want to list.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Adam wrote:Ignore that link, tried cutting and pasting from quick reply to full reply and posted a link to the game thread.

I was trying to respond to Fred that I think Jack is playing uncharacteristically opportunistic. He seems thrown off his normal town game. I would have expected town Jack to have better found his footing at this point.
Please explain.

I have several scum reads, including two I'm almost totally sure of.

I have several strong town reads as well.

To what extend would you expect me to "find my footing" normally that I haven't, here? Do you think I lack "footing" when I am scum?

Or is this mostly a response to people not just following me like they tend to on the Realms? It's easier to push a train with majority voting because you HAVE to make a decision earlier. Here, players are encouraged to stand their ground alone on one vote trains and you can lynch with three votes. Harder to convince people to follow imo.

It's just the constant unproductive back and forth about with Dom and about rainbow lists. Which, to be fair, is as much on the other half of these conversations as on you. I do think you tend to "lack footing" as scum more than town.

It's not about people following you, but you do have a point with plurality trains.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Adam

Specifically, what posts that SVS has made do you like and why?

Is there a way to get post numbers or am I going to have to do this the hard way?

Fred is taking the lead as confirmed town and I like it.

Epi being non-town makes me suspect gfish a little more. Scum gfish only makes the blocked kill gambit if he thinks he's caught other scum.

I like Epi's gambit. Those pushing for his lynch now are most likely Cerberus, I'm thinking. Easy non-mafia lynch.

Dom seems extraordinarily focused on Jack. Wilgy seems almost as focused on gfish. I feel like gfish and Jack haven't interacted as much as on Day 2 as on Day 1. Possibly teammates? I could definitely see a mafia with Jack and gfish going for cbob night 1.
Not sure how I feel about Dom. Wilgy seems townish to me. I also like S~V~S's play so far.

I like that TSP is getting in the game a bit. I haven't seen much from sprityo but what I'm seen feels civ. Dyslexicon seems less involved today than yesterday. nutella I'm still unsure about. I also haven't seen mp much today.

I don't like that Silver hasn't contributed much of anything so far. I like Fred's analysis of that situation.

Ignore that link, tried cutting and pasting from quick reply to full reply and posted a link to the game thread.

I was trying to respond to Fred that I think Jack is playing uncharacteristically opportunistic. He seems thrown off his normal town game. I would have expected town Jack to have better found his footing at this point.

Fredwood wrote:All the more reason for Jack to stay on Silver at this point. Less is required to lynch him. The game in which I played with him here that was plurality he stuck to his guns on his reads to the point of tunneling.

I think the best defense for Jack is "self-preservation" but here, even if you're dead you get a win if your faction wins. So self-preservation is less of a motivation, the greater good is a better motivation. Switching to Epi screams of self-preservation not enforcing the greater good and staying on Silver. If he goes down as town still doggedly pursuing Silver, then it's a direction the town is more likely to go down now. By switching to epi he's just muddled his pressure of SIlver as just being opportunistic.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... start=1000

gfishfunk wrote:
sprityo wrote:
Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.
I think we should opt to have him replaced soon if he doesn't show
I believe he posted once during this phase so far.

3 times at the beginning of this phase in fact. I don't want him replaced yet.

DrWilgy wrote:
Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.
How active is Raven normally?

More active than this, but I know he's pretty busy in real life. I don't think his lack of posting here is alignment-indicative at all.

DrWilgy wrote:
Adam wrote:
DrWilgy wrote: How does that work in this environment?
I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?
So, now instead of explaining the wagon with the most votes as a pressure, how about you tell me what you think of Gfish and Nifty? How do you feel about them being the only 2 voting with you?

They're both playing as I expect them to. Nifty's gotten a lot better recently with his tells and behaving consistently no matter his alignment. I started off reading him a little on the scum side, but I don't know if that's recency bias or not. Gfish has been playing loud, but nothing he's done so far is inconsistent with how he would play as town. He also tends to intentionally play as a scum-seeming townie, which provides him with cover when he's bad.

This role block of Epi tells me: Someone definitely role blocked (or attempted to role block) Epi

I see multiple scenarios for how gfish would act
1) If gfish was a town RB, I would expect him to call out Epi, especially if it was a one-shot RB
2) If gfish was mafia in a game with only one mafia, I don't think he would out the target of his RB because he knows it would be town
3) In this game with two mafias, and gfish was on one of the two mafias and thought he stopped the opposing mafia's kill with a RB, he would definitely fight full force to get that player lynched and be a successful scum hunter.

If in the end gfish had not backed off of Epi, I think he would be mafia, but based on how easily he let it go once Epi claimed, my inclination is that gfish is town.

I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

DrWilgy wrote: How does that work in this environment?

I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?

gfishfunk wrote:
Long Con wrote:So, Freud would say you think Epi is fake-claiming, is that correct?
I assume you mean me as Fred is more suspicious of me than Epi.

I inherently find hint claiming suspicious. I don't think s/he is fake claiming. I don't think s/he is claiming at all and hiding behind righteous ambiguity.

I think he literally meant Sigmund Freud. Slip of the tongue/keyboard and all that.

Search found 85 matches