The Syndicate

Omg, this thread tonight it's cracking me up...

Spacedaisy, hopefully you'll be here in time to answer this question: do you think Zombrella and llama are right about Snowman? llama, I'm feeling the same way though it's not because he mistakenly said I'm a Yotsuba. Don't you think he would fight harder if he were civvie? lol boo, maybe so, maybe so. I don't know. I don't think Zombrella is reading bad because of her belief snowman is. This is totally in line with what I have seen of her personable, trust me on that. Snowman is a tricky one and I keep waffling back and forth about him, but I'm prone to take her read of his intentions with a little more consideration than most...

If I no longer believe it to be true, then there is no risk of painting a target. Maybe you disagree with that If you no longer believe it to be true, why even bring it up in the first place? Why do you need to say, I thought they were these very specific roles but I think I was wrong now. I wouldn't even have said anything about it because it is drawing a useless speculation about them. Especially with those two particular roles. I just don't see why you would say it...

I am catching up on the eight pages you all did while I was spending time with family today and I realized im going to have to write this post as I go so here we go... Sorry if I am channeling MP this evening... Zombrella vs. Snowman: I can understand the suspicion on snowman for not answering accusations with enough seriousness, but I guess I did not find him suspicious for that because what little I know of him in person both he and Zobrella struck me as light hearted people, a lot of fun. His responses seemed in character to me for someone who was approaching it like a light game, possibly not realizing how it would be taken. Zombrella's sudden excitement about her sudden suspicion of him is very in character for what I've seen of her. I know he has pulled the wool over her eyes in games of deception so when she goes after him for believing he is bad she is going to do it with excitement because that seems to be her personality to me. That said, I think she is going to be more paranoid about him than anyone else in the game, but she may also be able to read him better than anyone else in the game. And frankly his answer seemed fairly non-committal. He didn't want to hitch his wagon to her defense, he as playing it pretty cool. Yeah he defended her against that one suspicion but he wants to see her defend against something real before he decides on her guilt. Totally distancing himself from a Zombrella lynch result I think. Probably because even baddies don't know what someone will flip in this game I think... I started out this paragraph thinking I didn't suspect Snowman but now I think that considering it as I typed I have changed my mind and would think about a vote for him. Another example of really bad Zeek logic: If I said shit like that in a game I'd be called out for it, so I've done the same. Does anyone think this is a good reason to call someone out on something? :confused: This doesn't seem like a genuine thought process in the slightest. Just because you think someone would find you suspicious for something doesn't mean you automatically have to find another player suspicious for that same thing... One other thing I would add to this discussion of our old pal zeek is that he replaced Roxy rather quickly, and it is my belief that baddies get replaced more quickly than civvies, although this game may be an exception due to the relative lack of baddie BTSC. I know for a fact MP is very proactive and he has replacements waiting in the wings. Rox knows when she is in over her head and I don't find it too suspicious that she replaced out quickly and he filled the role quickly. Plus MP is very attached to many roles in this game, civ and bad alike, so I doubt he would be in more of a rush to fill a bad one than a civ one. I think this logic is flawed Llama. I haven't voiced my opinion on Yotsuba yet, so I may as well do it now. I 100% agree with Epi that we should not make them our targets and try to lynch them. That does not bring the detectives closer to their goal. But I also don't think a Yotsuba lynch is as bad as a detective lynch, since it does not advance the Kira win condition either. It does lose us time in which we can be NKed though. I have typed this damn post three times now and my creaking iPad has eaten it three times. It is ticking me off. One more try... I agree with Epi as well. He is not advocating trusting the Yatzy, as far as I can see, he is only saying we should focus on the people we KNOW we have to kill to win. If/when we find we have to kill the Yatzy later, let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Why make our win condition more difficult than it has to be, focus on killing Kiras. The longer we argue about the Yatzy group the more time we give the kiras to achieve their own goals. Why is everyone jumping his case about this? Epi has made more sense to me in this game than ever before. I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest. But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them. Ok, I can see this point. If you are looking Higuchi and you think someone is Yatzy then maybe you consider a vote their way in order to hopefully catch Higuchi. This is the only point in this argument on the other side that has made any sense to me and I am ok with. I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest. But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them. But Higuchi is unlynchable until he gains the DN, so lynching players we believe are Yotsuba but can't rule out as Higuchi doesn't truly serve the purpose you mention. If it lands on Higuchi, then the lynch is wasted. Until I read this, lol. However, just going off the series (which I watched with MP just before the game started because he was really wanting me to watch it, I doubt we will know who is killing. L was able to extrapolate that information from the victims in the show, but for all intents and purposes it appeared to everyone outside the task force that it was one killer.we might not know when Higuchi has started killing, so it is hard to say when we should start looking for him. Damn it, I think my opinion changed halfway through this post again! Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression. I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach. Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect. I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill. What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right? I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind. Why would you say the underlined? My gut reaction to this is you we're trying to communicate to someone you don't have BTSC with. I don't like this one bit to be frank. Until this post I did not think you were Kira at all, but this post makes me wonder if you are not an inactive Kira. I am really torn right now. Up to know Epi has made sense to me. And his current frustration reads sincere. But that post is really sketchy to me. If you no longer believe it to be true why even bring it up in the first place? It seems like a really good way to paint a target on someone you think needs taken out and yet distance yourself from it at the same time! And I am feeling more open to the snowman case as well because I find his evaluation of Zombrella to be too non-committal. and she has been playing board game versions of mafia-esque games with him for a very long time, so her evaluation of him carries more weight. If she was bad and he just gave her a defense, she would want to keep him around because his opinion of her should carry more weight. I've done that with MP before, kept him around for the cred. Only to find out later he knew I was bad and set me up. Son of a... :fist: Ok I'm going to go read the new role secrets everyone is talking about...

I voted BWT. I think I already explained my reason. Whoa this is an intense lynch! I will be back later tonight to catch up and post again...

I am posting from my phone from the hospital, which is really difficult. I will make sure to for before the poll closes but I doubt I will last again until I am home tonight...

No FZ. You aren't the only one. I mentioned BWT earlier and I am seriously considering him for a vote. Though boo's case on llama merits some consideration I think, I just get scared voting llama because I usually am wrong when I do find him suspicious. It makes me nervous. As far as BWT though, his level of engagement is making me feel suspicious and the thing is I remember in GoC I was not at all surprised by his engagement there, I was in fact surprised by the fact he got lynched for it, but for some reason in this game it feels insincere to me, but I can't put my finger on why...

No death is always welcome! Epi, you seem On a side note I am traveling back to Ohio tomorrow, my grandmother is dying and I want to spend time with her while I can. So, my participation will be different than normal. I'll either be too busy or I will have more free time on my hands than I anticipate now. I can't tell which. But I wanted to give you guys the heads up. Now I should go check out these revealed role secrets I haven't even taken time to look at yet.... Who knew mafia was so much work?? On second thought I have an early flight. I'll read the role secrets during my layover in Dallas. Night all! Take care over there. Ohio is a dangerous place. "Ohio has the flavor or a water chestnut..." :P My layover is actually in Charlotte. Obviously Alex booked these flights on my behalf, lol. I'll go read the role updates now.....

I see Zomb asked about me. I was working, I just finished catching up on the thread. I don't think Epi's eye comment is any indication.anyone who knows MP knows that he tries to form his games to the theme as closely as he can. It's one of those things he and I have discussed in a meta sense because I'm the exact opposite, I like to use the theme as a loose structure and let the game develop in whatever direction it will, determined by the player choices. Anyway, all that to say the eye deal being in the game is not even remotely surprising and I expected the same. So I don't find Epi suspect because of it. Especially since he clearly is doing a watch of the whole series, I just assumed he had just come to that part or something. However, did all the major players make some kind of pact to act as weird as possible? Llama, TH, Russ, Epi, even Aces. You all are so far off the norm I don't even know what to think of it. Well mostly, someone said something about TH wanting to be lynched (BWT?), which I believe I mentioned before myself. Or if I didn't, I was thinking about it. I'm tired, so I can't remember too well at the moment. I suspect lynching him will either bring him some benefit, or will prove useless to us. I can't see any reason to lynch him right now because of this. I think it's interesting to see BWT as engaged as he has seemed in his posts, it's been a while since I've seen this from him, and those are some meaty posts, not sure what to make of this. LC, where are you? I know you are playing but I don't recall much of what you have said. Maybe it's the over the top posting from others that is making your contributions escape me, but it worries me a bit. I'm not even sure how your posting sits as far as high/low or whatever. Need to read you again I think. Trice, I'm sorry I was wrong, but at the same time I saw you misquoting me and it just looked so manipulative, I felt like you were the best bet. Meh. :sigh: No death is always welcome! Epi, you seem convinced MP had received all his PMs but I didn't see anything to suggest that, what led you to this conclusion? On a side note I am traveling back to Ohio tomorrow, my grandmother is dying and I want to spend time with her while I can. So, my participation will be different than normal. I'll either be too busy or I will have more free time on my hands than I anticipate now. I can't tell which. But I wanted to give you guys the heads up. Now I should go check out these revealed role secrets I haven't even taken time to look at yet.... Who knew mafia was so much work?? On second thought I have an early flight. I'll read the role secrets during my layover in Dallas. Night all...

Ok, just finished catching up. I feel really weird about TH. not weird like I want to lunch him but weird like he wants to be lynched. I don't like this. He is so far out of character for himself or most established mafia players that it feels like he either wants it or is not afraid of it. I'mnot voting TH. I'm not voting Epi either, despite what felt like weird stuff against me, his logic seems really sound to me. I would consider a vote for either FZ or Trice right now. FZ seems kind of all over the place, which does not seem in character. And trice has been caught snipping post and misrepresenting them. That is hardly civ behavior. I'm voting Trice. Linki I will catch up after my post......

I don't really know at this moment. I feel like there were some really big personality players going back and forth in the thread today but I'm not sure what I make of it. Also... WIFEY!!!!...

Both of her posts on day 0 were made such that one could handwave away either option she voted for, so if it wasn't close and there was no point in voting L/Light then she could avoid attention linki. that was earlier and wasn't what I was posting about, though And how exactly did putting a vote where I did keep me from attention? I've been playing this game a long time, if I wanted to blend in I know how to do it. I voted what I felt like voting for the reasons I have explained. I left the thread planning on coming back in a bit, catching up, seeing if something someone said changed my mind, unfortunately other issues arose that I felt needed attention. Then I had to leave for work. So I went in and voted without posting or catching up because I didn't have time and frankly, i thought everything I had said already spoke for itself and would explain the reason for my drive by vote when I got home. I really didn't see the big deal. So it is rather misleading to talk about this three times in the thread stuff. Yeah I was in the thread three times, but something came up between the last time I posted and the last possible time I had to vote before I went to work. Epi, fair enough re:your reasoning. I don't understand why you wouldn't just say that to begin with, because it didn't make sense to me that I was on a short list for reasons that made no sense. However, it was not a baddie move, it was because I liked both options so evening up seemed like the way to go to me. :shrugs...

I made a list of four people that I would vote for on Day 1. Turnip Head is one of those, although not for the same reasoning you raised, llama. Am I on your list? No. I like you. In fact, so that no one accuses me of being opportunistic or jumping onto other people's cases, I'll name the quartet now: Ricochet, Turnip Head, spacedaisy, and FZ. Why these four? I believe Ricochet was being deceptive in his Day 0 questions. I think he was pretending to be clueless. He is not clueless. He is very smart. Even he knew that Simon Railton belong in the Eclectic category but sucked beyond belief! I think Ricochet is bad. Turnip Head? TH has been boring beyond belief. Also I think he is tied to another player. spacedaisy voted Day 0 and didn't say why. I think spacedaisy is bad with FZ. FZ. also has been absent. I think these two are unsure of what to say. Epi this doesn't make sense to me. I said quite a bit in my analysis of the options earlier in the day and explained where I was leaning. I just didn't say it at the moment of my vote because I was in a rush at that time. Had I been caught up maybe my vote would have been different, I don't know. Probably not because I still liked the idea of trying out something new. I didn't say as much as you did, no. Because I was busy playing mod this morning/afternoon and I wasn't in a pissing contest with DH like you were. I can understand your suspicion, but your reasoning for including me on the short list seems hollow to me...

Oh, a potential 3/9 actually, since spacedaisy voted without actually posting, but maybe her post got eaten or something. No, I got bogged down dealing with some mod related stuff which tbh is more important to me anyway, and had to vote quickly before I left. I wasn't even caught up since the last time I posted actually, I had already expressed that I liked both normal and light/l and just decided to cast a vote for the second because I was ok with either and decided to even it up a little more. I'm catching up on the last seven pages right now.....

High posting could be beneficial as it would probably force Kira to be more active, thus eliminating the likelihood of a baddie flying under the radar. But in the downside it could encourage people lynching high posters which seems counterproductive to the spirit of the game. holy crap good call. I think this right here is the best possible situation for us. While L/Light sound interesting, baddies can't fly under the radar if they need to talk to be able to save their teammates. that all said i need to read the rest of the thread, but i think this is a very solid point. You seem to be ignoring the second half. I think it's a bad idea because it will likely lead to lynching a bunch of high posters. Anyone who is active will automatically be suspected. I am personally looking at either Normal or Light/...

I don't care for the secret votes much, it leaves it too difficult to really figure out much about people's alignment. They could say whatever they want in thread but bite very differently. It would be an easy way for a baddie to hide. High posting could be beneficial as it would probably force Kira to be more active, thus eliminating the likelihood of a baddie flying under the radar. But in the downside it could encourage people lynching high posters which seems counterproductive to the spirit of the game. Low posting would encourage people not to post much, which would make it hard for us to determine much about anyone again, in my opinion. Plus it would make the game much less interesting. It's never good to discourage people from posting. I don't like this one either. Normal lynch, if it ain't broke don't fix it... :shrug: Then again, it would be interesting to try something new. Early voter, this would seem to encourage snap decisions which I don't really care for, especially as watching what people say during a lynch can make a difference and sometimes even provide a baddie slip up. Late voters, encourages people hold their votes until the end. Could result in more missed votes, plus baddies frequently hold their votes in case they need to save someone, could give them even more of an advantage in that situation L/Light, this could be really interesting and might allow us to narrow down some things, but with all the numbers, it might be more difficult to figure stuff out from this than we think. But the fact that we still have public voting allows us to figure out alignment the old fashioned way anyhow so I think I might be leaning this way. Nihilistic, no. Just no. So for me, either normal or L/Light. Gonna have to think about this one...