The Syndicate

indiglo wrote:So is Matahari still around? I miss her too. Haven't seen her since returning from my long absence. She was so nice. I remember at one point we referred to her as Mata/Cyn/Dilly due to her plethora of names. I hope she is well.

I wonder if she'd make an appearance at the Syndicate for another Dex & Indi Production. She hasn't missed one yet!

Scotty wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm having internet issues apparently. Anyway, I have seen my name tossed around a lot today and that's cool, I can't blame you all because I have been shit this game. Vote me if you like but I can tell you it is guaranteed to be a complete waste of your time and a lynch no matter who you are. If you put my gameplay all together with what I've said recently I'm sure you can figure out why. But do what you like.

Well you make me nervous. If you are actually who I think you are claiming to be, then you are not a prudent lynch. But that you are using it as a crutch doesn't look good.

In any case, I'm not sure the next best lynch candidate. I'm gonna plop it on DFaraday for now.

But someone can certainly change my mind on another. I'm kinda floundering here for the best candidate.

LoRab wrote:That sounds like the civ DF I expect. So, he's moved down my list, as well.

Daisy, on the other hand:

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm having internet issues apparently. Anyway, I have seen my name tossed around a lot today and that's cool, I can't blame you all because I have been shit this game. Vote me if you like but I can tell you it is guaranteed to be a complete waste of your time and a lynch no matter who you are. If you put my gameplay all together with what I've said recently I'm sure you can figure out why. But do what you like.

It seems as if you're hinting at Erin. Because no other role would be a complete waste of time and a lynch no matter who you are. And Erin was lynched day 2. So...am I missing something?

And I think, if you were implying BWT was a seemer, that you'd have said something or implied something when he flipped as your role.

So, in short, I'm not sure I believe you.

Also, I feel bad suspecting Daisy in this game in particular, since The Office game back in the day (before I was LoRab, even) on LP was Daisy's first game, I believe, and we had wonderfully lovely civ BTSC with all of the Warehouse Workers (TH was there, too, of other players in this game)--until fucking evil bastard (FEB) DD frigging killed me. Ah, memories. But, really, it was a fun game, and I feel bad suspecting you in a game of the same theme--does that make any sense?

DrumBeats wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Wait, it was enrique that said it, and drumbeats that agreed with it. Still think it is hypocritical of you.

I liked his read on you being overly diplomatic, I did not find anything wrong with your thought that SVS looked like she was trying to cheat the lie detector.

Enrique wrote: SD. I had second thoughts about that word, but what I meant is that it came off shallow and disingineuous (artificial, fabricated, whatever). It just looks like it's trying to check every box, you know? You have considered this and that, but arrived at [inoffensive conclusion]. Yeah you go through a whole justification process, but the whole time it looks like you KNOW where you're going. One second 3J and DB are suspicious, and you immediately let them off the hook. You nitpick SVS' posts, but it never looks like you're steering from "SVS would never do that". It feels redundant, like the post only exists for reference and not because you care what the outcome is.

I don't know, and I recognize I could be wrong, but that's what it looked like to me. Sorry I was a dick about it, I'm just tryna' catch some baddies.

Enrique wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Holly – Holly is just as weird as Michael, but more balanced. If she is killed, two days will follow. If she is lynched, two nights will follow.

I know I am way behind and perhaps this has already been said, but judging from that role, I would call Holly a civ. why are we calling her bad?

Matt wrote:Like, can no one else think that maybe SVS put in her vote, and there was a baddie around who ended the day early just to set up SVS in case Quin came back good?

Has that crossed no one's mind? Deerp.

"In case Quin came back good?" You're bad, aren't you Matt? If the baddies ended the day on Quin who was civ, then I'm sure they knew how Quin would flip, seeing as how she was not on their team.

Matt wrote:Lol. I see the irony btw of me sticking up for SVS against very new and recent accusations that I should give her time to answer herself.

-1 to Matt

Yeah, that was going to be my next thought, why give her answers, let her defend herself. Is it because you know how she will flip and you are trying to buy some civ cred?

Scotty wrote:

Matt wrote:Does anyone else want to give SVS the benefit of the doubt here? I mean, you don't think she'd be a little more subtle about outright killing a civilian?

I'd like to keep the discussion going on more than her, because I'm not sold she is responsible.

But I am looking at JJJ and Drumbeats for immediately jumping on her as 100% bad.

So much this. For two guys who analyze the shit out of everything and everyone, you jumped to quick and certain conclusions here.

On reading further I see now that Jay did come the conclusion based on analysis. I'm just not sure I agree with the conclusion, but I can see where his thinking is coming from, consider my suspicion slightly lessened.

S~V~S wrote:I did not mean to use the word forcer; what I meant to say was day ender. That was a poor choice of words and I am half awake so not sure why I used that word.

I was not inclined to suspect you until this post. Civs don't usually feel that concerned about their choice of words as much as baddies do, are you afraid you let something slip you shouldn't have?

S~V~S wrote:

Serge wrote:SVS's role could might as well be a townie role. Erin's role to stop a lynch is almost the opposite of this role.

SVS, do you deny the allegations?

I deny them categorically. I am not on any team. I did not knowingly have anything to do with Quins death. Doing what I did would be the stupidest move in the world on my part if I knew what was going to happen.

Would ANY of you have done that knowingly?

But I am okay with getting lynched if need be. I think the town could gain some benefit from it.

I find this mildly concerning as well, everyone is on a team unless they are independent, are you claiming independent? This looks a bit like an attempt to cheat an LD. I would only say mildly concerning though because it is followed by another statement that would seem less likely to be able to cheat an LD...

S~V~S wrote:I am appalled that anyone thinks I am enough of an idiot to do this. I mean, I can be an idiot, but I am a player whose best use to a bad team is via manipulation & talking in thread, not out of self sacrifice. But whatevs, if you want to lynch me Drum, go for it. You will be dissappointed if you really expect me to flip bad.

Also, re the use of the word "forced"; has it occurred to you that I am not allowed to directly say I was targeted?

What other factual checkable statement would you like me to make?

Linki @Faraday, what do you think of my factual remarks? We have 2 nights in a row for Pam to check me. What factual questions would you like to ask me?

Here is the sticking point for me, this kind of play would be out of character for SVS. She is super careful about not revealing her identity through times she posts and who might see her and so forth. In BSG she would barely ever post as Cavil in our chat thread because she knew mods can see who is online, even when invisible. We don't use it to our advantage, but she knew I could see it so rather than risk possibly giving anything away, she rarely even posted until she knew I was on her team. And SVS is not one to go against her meta, especially where caution is concerned. I know this is something that people can change up, but I don't see this being something she would ever WANT to change up for any reason. She is fairly risk averse and doesn't sacrifice a teammate unless she has to. I can't reconcile that to the theory put forward here.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Another thought:

~ The advantage gained for the baddies in this situation is diminished some if there are multiple baddie teams (assuming the Syndicate norm for alternating night kills is maintained). The baddies in general enjoy an advantage, but the individual teams not as much. Indeed they might threaten one another additionally in this situation. I think the leetic/Elohcin kills might be a sign of multiple baddie teams -- I thought they both leaned toward the side of badness, perhaps even as team mates.

I disagree, I think we have a baddie team and a SK (probably Scranton Strangler)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:I think DB jumping on SVS right out of the gate is opportunism. I acknowledge that literally anyone could have done it, but his doing so and his continual push that she is definitely bad has me thinking the opposite.

I'll let DB answer to the accusation of opportunism, as well as the other things you've asserted. I'll propose a separate point:

I see culture clash. A few Syndicateers see this and their instinctive reaction is "why the eff would a baddie ever do this?"

That's not my reaction at all. I was brought up elsewhere. DB was brought up elsewhere, and Bulbagarden's games are a lot more like RYM's than they are like The Syndicate's. I think that breeds a certain type of player base, and where he comes from I bet this stuff isn't so absurd as some people here seem to think it is. On RYM this wouldn't even be a surprising gambit, it'd be ordinary.

I can understand the benefit and acknowledge the possibility in theory, I can't see it being something SVS would ever do though. She isn't from RYM Or Bulbagarden, andante is something that comes very difficult to SVS especially when they are deeply held ideas like her cautious tendencies.

Conclusion to my massive post:
I don't suspect SVS
I do suspect Matt
I don't suspect Drumbeats or Jay atm.

Getting on a plane now, voting Christmas.

This post feels concerningly diplomatic. Everyone, you're right but you're wrong. I don't suspect you, but I could. This is a problem, but not for me. That and the use cliches such as "civs don't care about their words!" and "everyone is on a team" makes me worried that this post is more about itself than it is about any of the people being discussed. It's just... predictable and vapid.

Epignosis wrote:Holly – Holly is just as weird as Michael, but more balanced. If she is killed, two days will follow. If she is lynched, two nights will follow.

Matt wrote:Like, can no one else think that maybe SVS put in her vote, and there was a baddie around who ended the day early just to set up SVS in case Quin came back good?

Has that crossed no one's mind? Deerp.

Matt wrote:Lol. I see the irony btw of me sticking up for SVS against very new and recent accusations that I should give her time to answer herself.

-1 to Matt

Scotty wrote:

Matt wrote:Does anyone else want to give SVS the benefit of the doubt here? I mean, you don't think she'd be a little more subtle about outright killing a civilian?

I'd like to keep the discussion going on more than her, because I'm not sold she is responsible.

But I am looking at JJJ and Drumbeats for immediately jumping on her as 100% bad.

S~V~S wrote:I did not mean to use the word forcer; what I meant to say was day ender. That was a poor choice of words and I am half awake so not sure why I used that word.

S~V~S wrote:

Serge wrote:SVS's role could might as well be a townie role. Erin's role to stop a lynch is almost the opposite of this role.

SVS, do you deny the allegations?

I deny them categorically. I am not on any team. I did not knowingly have anything to do with Quins death. Doing what I did would be the stupidest move in the world on my part if I knew what was going to happen.

Would ANY of you have done that knowingly?

But I am okay with getting lynched if need be. I think the town could gain some benefit from it.

S~V~S wrote:I am appalled that anyone thinks I am enough of an idiot to do this. I mean, I can be an idiot, but I am a player whose best use to a bad team is via manipulation & talking in thread, not out of self sacrifice. But whatevs, if you want to lynch me Drum, go for it. You will be dissappointed if you really expect me to flip bad.

Also, re the use of the word "forced"; has it occurred to you that I am not allowed to directly say I was targeted?

What other factual checkable statement would you like me to make?

Linki @Faraday, what do you think of my factual remarks? We have 2 nights in a row for Pam to check me. What factual questions would you like to ask me?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Another thought:

~ The advantage gained for the baddies in this situation is diminished some if there are multiple baddie teams (assuming the Syndicate norm for alternating night kills is maintained). The baddies in general enjoy an advantage, but the individual teams not as much. Indeed they might threaten one another additionally in this situation. I think the leetic/Elohcin kills might be a sign of multiple baddie teams -- I thought they both leaned toward the side of badness, perhaps even as team mates.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:I think DB jumping on SVS right out of the gate is opportunism. I acknowledge that literally anyone could have done it, but his doing so and his continual push that she is definitely bad has me thinking the opposite.

I'll let DB answer to the accusation of opportunism, as well as the other things you've asserted. I'll propose a separate point:

I see culture clash. A few Syndicateers see this and their instinctive reaction is "why the eff would a baddie ever do this?"

That's not my reaction at all. I was brought up elsewhere. DB was brought up elsewhere, and Bulbagarden's games are a lot more like RYM's than they are like The Syndicate's. I think that breeds a certain type of player base, and where he comes from I bet this stuff isn't so absurd as some people here seem to think it is. On RYM this wouldn't even be a surprising gambit, it'd be ordinary.

Epignosis wrote:Holly – Holly is just as weird as Michael, but more balanced. If she is killed, two days will follow. If she is lynched, two nights will follow.

Matt wrote:Like, can no one else think that maybe SVS put in her vote, and there was a baddie around who ended the day early just to set up SVS in case Quin came back good?

Has that crossed no one's mind? Deerp.

Matt wrote:Lol. I see the irony btw of me sticking up for SVS against very new and recent accusations that I should give her time to answer herself.

-1 to Matt

Scotty wrote:

Matt wrote:Does anyone else want to give SVS the benefit of the doubt here? I mean, you don't think she'd be a little more subtle about outright killing a civilian?

I'd like to keep the discussion going on more than her, because I'm not sold she is responsible.

But I am looking at JJJ and Drumbeats for immediately jumping on her as 100% bad.

S~V~S wrote:I did not mean to use the word forcer; what I meant to say was day ender. That was a poor choice of words and I am half awake so not sure why I used that word.

S~V~S wrote:

Serge wrote:SVS's role could might as well be a townie role. Erin's role to stop a lynch is almost the opposite of this role.

SVS, do you deny the allegations?

I deny them categorically. I am not on any team. I did not knowingly have anything to do with Quins death. Doing what I did would be the stupidest move in the world on my part if I knew what was going to happen.

Would ANY of you have done that knowingly?

But I am okay with getting lynched if need be. I think the town could gain some benefit from it.

S~V~S wrote:I am appalled that anyone thinks I am enough of an idiot to do this. I mean, I can be an idiot, but I am a player whose best use to a bad team is via manipulation & talking in thread, not out of self sacrifice. But whatevs, if you want to lynch me Drum, go for it. You will be dissappointed if you really expect me to flip bad.

Also, re the use of the word "forced"; has it occurred to you that I am not allowed to directly say I was targeted?

What other factual checkable statement would you like me to make?

Linki @Faraday, what do you think of my factual remarks? We have 2 nights in a row for Pam to check me. What factual questions would you like to ask me?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Another thought:

~ The advantage gained for the baddies in this situation is diminished some if there are multiple baddie teams (assuming the Syndicate norm for alternating night kills is maintained). The baddies in general enjoy an advantage, but the individual teams not as much. Indeed they might threaten one another additionally in this situation. I think the leetic/Elohcin kills might be a sign of multiple baddie teams -- I thought they both leaned toward the side of badness, perhaps even as team mates.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:I think DB jumping on SVS right out of the gate is opportunism. I acknowledge that literally anyone could have done it, but his doing so and his continual push that she is definitely bad has me thinking the opposite.

I'll let DB answer to the accusation of opportunism, as well as the other things you've asserted. I'll propose a separate point:

I see culture clash. A few Syndicateers see this and their instinctive reaction is "why the eff would a baddie ever do this?"

That's not my reaction at all. I was brought up elsewhere. DB was brought up elsewhere, and Bulbagarden's games are a lot more like RYM's than they are like The Syndicate's. I think that breeds a certain type of player base, and where he comes from I bet this stuff isn't so absurd as some people here seem to think it is. On RYM this wouldn't even be a surprising gambit, it'd be ordinary.