The Syndicate

I play how I play Ika, hopefully you will learn how to read me better in the future as a result. I believe your signature is lacking something now that the game is over and my civ alignment has been proven.

I thought for sure that the reason llama was suspecting me so hard was because he had blocked me, it's why I did not really suspect him.

I have never had a game where I suspected so many of the wrong people. I felt truly confident in the Bubbles lynch and the lynch before that, can't recall who it was now. I also really suspected Matt. At least I was t wrong to trust the people I trusted, lol. What a fail game for me.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I would. That's not very Epi-like.

I know he would use his abilities, but I get the impression he doesn't like lie detectors. Correct me if I'm wrong.

No he doesn't like people trying to break the game, which is what happens when there are forced ld statements. He believes in a more nuanced game than that I think.

I would. That's not very Epi-like.

I don't know, why does Llama feel bad?

This is a why did the chicken road scenario, isn't it?

So Epi what are you feeling about sig then?

ika wrote:

sig wrote:Also why Daisy?

She has no natural paranoia of me and is buddying super hard

ika, I watched your baddie game very closely in Turf Wars. Up close and personal. Frankly you almost always tunnel hard on your own team. I am not on a baddie team so I am very confident that you are civ, plus you were hard after DF who we know was civ. Additionally, your play at the start clearly looked like someone who was trying to solve the game, although that has been severely lacking of late which I assume has been on the decline because you don't have Silver in the game with you right now. But your behavior when she was in the thread lacked the mindless sheeping of her opinions that you displayed in Turf Wars. Also, if you had killed Silver N1, you and I both know that you have an emotional response to betraying Silver which is difficult for you to hide, I have seen no such emotional response in this game. I have no paranoia of you not because I am buddying but because I feel extremely confident that you are civ. And I think I have decent reason to believe so. A thread based case for your civ alignment, if you will. But you know, according to you that's weak as shit. So if you are civ and I am correct in my read of you (which I didn't plan on revealing why I felt that about you because why build a case for someone's civ alignment just to make them a target for the baddies, but clearly you misread why I trust you) then maybe you should take a second to re-evaulate your suspicion of me.

Epi, why no answer to the question I asked you last night?

Linki @Matt, now THAT is an answer I can see being plausible.

Linki @Epi: Nah, I believe you. Just don't judge my paranoia. I've been wrong so much already in this game...

Linki: I think you could wipe your ass with that Epi... Gotta go back and read again and think on this. Matt, I think this might be bad for you considering what Wilgy last said about you...

Epignosis wrote:There are no vote shenanigans left except two lynch stops. There is zero voting manipulation in terms of calculating the votes.

I am wearing my tinfoil hat, leave me alone man!

Explain the statement I highlighted from you last night? You seem to be saying the hostess was going to replace you without your request, but you convinced her not to with promises of playing more?

sig wrote:DAISY HURRY BOTE FOR WQILGY MATT IS TRYING TO SAVE HIM

I just about had a heart attack... But Wilgy self voted and now has more votes than you, I didn't get in before the poll end to throw a vote on him. I hope Matt is not right about some kind of vote shenanigans because I feel confident sig is civ...

Oh I misread what you said!

Did you just out yourself as mafia or am I misunderstanding something?

I read over Scotty last night but there was nothing in there that screamed baddie to me so I'm not inclined to vote that way, especially with him being silenced.

Ika, I did not think you were bad before and I don't now either. What is your opinion of Matt?

Long Con wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:That said, I disagree with the following statement. I'm not convinced the doctor is faking. We didn't see anyone insanified Day 1, it could easily be faked if they felt the insanifier was dead. Have we seen anyone insanified today? I haven't yet read back over Wilgy yet, but my gut is still unsettled about his "insanified" posts.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't think the doctor's faking. No one else has been cursed.

Is it just me, or did you mean to say the opposite of this statement? Maybe "I'm not convinced the doctor isn't faking"?

Urg, that was a typo, I meant that I'm not convinced Wilgy isn't faking. I think the rest of that post should make sense with that fix, lol.

Also Dom, you keep saying that but you missed what my point was. I never thought that Bubbles was forcibly replaced. My point was Matt was busy too but had not asked to be replaced when Bubbles must have because she had a super fast replacement, but she hadn't even mentioned it. On the flip side, Matt had been telling us how busy he was and how difficult he was having to keep up, but he hadn't asked for a replacement. I have only ever seen people replaced without asking when they have been absent for extended periods of time and can't be reached.

Am I the only one who thinks Matt may have been caught in a lie? I'm putting my vote there for now.

After reading MM, I feel like I can move him up with Black Rock into the slight civ read group, edging on full civ read. The only thing that gave me pause was the quote I already mentioned there and I suspect I'm tinfoiling, but I'd like to see his response and anyone else on that silly little statement.

That said, I disagree with the following statement. I'm not convinced the doctor is faking. We didn't see anyone insanified Day 1, it could easily be faked if they felt the insanifier was dead. Have we seen anyone insanified today? I haven't yet read back over Wilgy yet, but my gut is still unsettled about his "insanified" posts.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't think the doctor's faking. No one else has been cursed.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Scotty wrote:You don't have to talk about your thoughts on the trains, it's just the absence of mentioning them at all and attaching yourself to bwt for posting in succession, of all things, seemed like a thin reason and convenient attempt to start another wagon.

Your explanation here about not voting Ddaraday is welcomed here in the manor, but I'm not sated unfortunately. It just seems convenient is all.

It wasn't just the succession of posts, as I explained already. It was the content of the posts and the change in opinion between two them. I had to quote and explain them in different posts than my vote because I was on my phone at that moment.

Also, what are you doing in the manor? I'm chillin' in the garden.

Hey Marshie, What is this statement about?

Matt wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm at work so let me keep my explanation quick. Matt is low engagement right now, but he has not been replaced. I think a person who believes they might not have time is more likely to hang in there longer if they are a civ, because they don't have teammates they know they are letting down. Civs don't know who their teammates are so they are less likely to feel the pressure of helping their team. That was a very fast replacement and she didn't say anything about getting a replacement in her post that I recall. Most civs announce they are going to ask for one.

I agree with this. I think hosts are more likely to replace baddies whose team needs them than a lone civ. Many hosts have disagreed with me on this, but I've seen it happen, man.

Avert your eyes, Scotty...

Still *catching up* (on page 10), but I don't think Bubbles being replaced has anything to do with her/bea's alignment. I was very nearly replaced just the other day, but I convinced our gracious hostess that I would play more and I'm civ soooo...

Also, Lol @ Epi. Yeah dude, I realized the irony after I posted it

Anyway, Illy is still my top suspect. Lots and lots of questions about multi-quoting, how to post in off topic, etc, it really feels like she's pushing the "I'm not on a team, see, look at all my questions about stuff" agenda.

I like reading about dying Wilgy and his diary pages. Good stuff.

Looks like Daisy is the first to vote for bwt (?) when Dom and DF were getting heat the other day. Hrm.

Anyway, I'll be back in a bit.

I've been doing some ISOing and this popped out to me. I never once meant to imply that Bubbles would be replaced without her consent that quickly, especially directly after her posting/voting. I don't know any host who would do that. I always believed that Bubbles had asked for a replacement but not told us in thread and that she did it in a hurry for some reason. I was wrong about her alignment clearly. But this statement by Matt went right by me. He had been posting and voting, why would he have to convince Elo to let him continue to play? That seems out of character for any host.

Epi, you know your wife better than I do, does this seem to fit something she would do as a host?

Better yet, Hostess: Would a player who was actively posting and voting be replaced without first asking for a replacement?

Off to continue my ISOs...

DrWilgy wrote:I want reason for your Rab suspicion 1st if you can daisy.

It's is only a slight suspicion, its mostly lingering because of her response to Silver's death. She has not postulated about anyone else's death being the result of Carson changing the targets. I think she might have been trying to give reasonable doubt to protect a teammate. But its one tiny ping so I don't feel confident in it. I know she answered me, but that small doubt about her is still hanging on.

Ok so... I have been struggling with the fact that I am finding it much easier to identify people I think are civ than people I suspect which is weird for me. And then part of me wonders if I am way off about some of these people. So here are my thoughts... in the form of my very first rainbow list!

Epi
Sig
Llama
ika
Dom

Back Rock

Sorsha
Illy
MM
Nero

Matt
Wilgy
Long Con
Lorab
Scotty

Now, of those who are in my top green, I'm most confident about Epi and Sig being civ. If I am wrong about Epi, I think it will be apparent to me by the next Day cycle I think.

Llama, is a 50/50 chance I'm wrong in my assumption about something. If I am right then he is civ, if I am wrong then I would believe him to be bad. But as of now I feel pretty sure I am correct in believing him to be civ.

Dom and ika are based on meta playstyle. They are the two I could most easily be wrong about being civ. I would trust my read of ika more than my read of Dom. But both read civ to me.

The next group are my null/slight town read group, almost entirely based on gut.
The next are my absolutely no read at all on these people group.
And the last group are my null/slight mafia lean, again based mostly on gut.

I would most like to look at the last two groups and will try to do some ISOs on some of them during the rest of this cycle.

As a note, any of the stuff I have talked about here is thread activity I am basing it upon, this is not some kind of information. I'm in no way info dumping or anything. Also, as you can see I don't even feel confident enough in suspecting anyone to put a single name in red right now. Meh...

No and no.

I'm at work now but when I get how in a couple hours I will post a list of the people I suspect and am possibly interested in voting.

Wilgy, are you bad?

thellama73 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I was making a point Llama, the point being you were drawing a connection between me and DF without even knowing he was bad. I have repeatedly said I didn't know what his alignment is. I don't need to wait and see, I know you are wrong. You are absolutely infuriating and the worst part is you refuse to put your money where your mouth is. I want your concession that you were wrong when the time comes that my alignment is revealed. I'm done talking to you too, because you are a stubborn, misled man. And I'm through wasting my breath on arguing with you because you are beyond listening to sense.

For what it's worth, I still like you a lot.

Fwiw, outside this game I still like you a lot too.

I was making a point Llama, the point being you were drawing a connection between me and DF without even knowing he was bad. I have repeatedly said I didn't know what his alignment is. I don't need to wait and see, I know you are wrong. You are absolutely infuriating and the worst part is you refuse to put your money where your mouth is. I want your concession that you were wrong when the time comes that my alignment is revealed. I'm done talking to you too, because you are a stubborn, misled man. And I'm through wasting my breath on arguing with you because you are beyond listening to sense.

thellama73 wrote:None of this changes my opinion about Daisy. I was sure DF would be civ after her daring me to lynch him.

I did not dare you to lynch him. You decided I was bad and are making everything fit that theory. You're ridiculous and WRONG!

Great.

I'm adding my vote to Lorab, just to try and widen the gap, I'm not interested in being lynched so I'd like to avoid shenanigans.

Linki: ika, I'm done talking to you. I already explained in that post what I was saying. You are wrong, I am civ and when this game is over I want your mistake plastered in your signature.

ika wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote: If you can't see how weak this case is, then I don't even know what to say to you. And the worst part is you all have spent all day talking about me and no one else really so it's highly unlikely anyone else will get lynched. So ika, I want to place a sig bet with you, Dom and/or Llama. When I flip I want you to put "I made a ridiculous case against Spacedaisy in Downton and was wrong about her," in your sig if I am civ.

hey dasiy, i jsut noticed, this, why did you use a conditional "if i am civ"

and im telling you when you cant read people that you need to lynch them cus it makes no sense for town to go "i cant read them so leave them"

I don't know what you are saying here ika. The bet I gave was if I am lynched and flip civ you would put that in your signature. I know for a fact I will flip civ, so it's a question of how sure you are that I'm bad and how willing are you to put your reputation/pride on the line.

ika wrote:daisy or dfar are my votes

and daisy should know im willing to take on bets

You good folks are all my witnesses.

Scotty...

Llama I have demonstrated it multiple times. You sir are blind to the truth.

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Ill vote Lorab to save myself if I have to, but my only concern with Lorab is I know she has been very busy and I'm not sure that the things she is suspected of might not just be explained by being busy/traveling.

Right now I find Wilgy more suspicious. I have yet to see a legit insanfier that has you just typing in all caps lock gibberish. I suspect this to be faked. But he wouldn't be able to defend against this accusation if I am wrong. Meh...

Even if Wilgy really is Lady Rose's victim, Lady Rose is a civilian, and so the post inhibition is coming from a civilian place. The same applies to Mrs. Patmore's silencing.

Yes but my point was my suspicion of Wilgy is that I believe he is faking. Why would anyone insanify someone who was already posting like a crazy person? And while I know Wilgy is pretty crazy, it can only buy you so long before you've got to give us more than that. Faking an insanify when you start coming under suspicion looks bad if you ask me.

Ill vote Lorab to save myself if I have to, but my only concern with Lorab is I know she has been very busy and I'm not sure that the things she is suspected of might not just be explained by being busy/traveling.

Right now I find Wilgy more suspicious. I have yet to see a legit insanfier that has you just typing in all caps lock gibberish. I suspect this to be faked. But he wouldn't be able to defend against this accusation if I am wrong. Meh...

I notice none of the three have taken me up on my sig bet...

I never postulated llama was bad, I just said I want him lynched. When I said if those three aren't bad at the end, I firmly believe both you and ika are civ, and I'm pretty sure Llama is too. I said that because I wanted to point out to you three that you are going to eat crow.

Nerolunar wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Nero, my vindictiveness said I want him lynched next if I die but if you read through you will see I'm not advising any civs to actually vote for llama.

But you are not sold on him being bad yet still wants him lynched although only if you get lynched.

Nice case, Epi. My vote can easily go there depending on how this plays out.

My vindictiveness wants to see him deal with the same thing I've had to. My inner civ is telling people it's probably not a good idea.

You all just better get used to honest, talkative Daisy. I should think it would be clear by now I don't have anything nefarious to hide.

Nero, my vindictiveness said I want him lynched next if I die but if you read through you will see I'm not advising any civs to actually vote for llama.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:No, I don't think llama is bad. But I still would like to see you all lynch him when I flip civ. Vindictive of me isn't it? I want him to deal with what I've had to deal with. I'm also not saying I believe he is good. He is the person I feel the least confident about, but I still think he is probably civ.

I don't want to lynch llama if I am not being lynched. But if I get lynched because of his case against me then I want him to be lynched as well, it is purely spiteful vindictiveness. I want him to have to argue against a silly case.

If you are asking the good little civ in me, then I don't recommend it. My vote on him just makes me feel better. I'll likely move it later to try and save myself. I'm just not leaving it on Scotty.

If you are mafia, I definitely won't be voting for llama tomorrow.

If you are civ, then I will definitely make a silly case against llama.

No, I don't think llama is bad. But I still would like to see you all lynch him when I flip civ. Vindictive of me isn't it? I want him to deal with what I've had to deal with. I'm also not saying I believe he is good. He is the person I feel the least confident about, but I still think he is probably civ.

I don't want to lynch llama if I am not being lynched. But if I get lynched because of his case against me then I want him to be lynched as well, it is purely spiteful vindictiveness. I want him to have to argue against a silly case.

If you are asking the good little civ in me, then I don't recommend it. My vote on him just makes me feel better. I'll likely move it later to try and save myself. I'm just not leaving it on Scotty.

I don't have strong mafia reads at the moment, I've had to spend most of this day defending against outrageous accusations. I could more easily tell you who I feel good about.

I feel very strongly that sig is most likely a civilian. So if you all are going to counter wagon, I would recommend a CFD at this point sig would not be a good choice.

Ika, I'm fairly certain I've been playing this game at least as long if not longer than you have, so don't give me lessons on how to play or it is only going to piss me off further. I am not bad, and you as a civ are going to lynch me on the weakest fucking case I've ever seen. Here are your points in this case:

1. I keep saying I'm civ. (I am civ, which you will see shortly if this lynch train continues)
2. I am protecting DF from a lynch (I'm not actively protecting him from a lynch I genuinely believed the two previous lynches were good leads, better than the DF case which is weak, as all the cases against him tend to be in every game he plays, also there is no knowledge his role is bad, so lynching me based on the hypothesis that DF is bad therefore I must be, is stupid)
3. I care about getting suspected. (Last time I checked civs don't like getting lynched, so this is probably the most ridiculous of all arguments you've made)

If you can't see how weak this case is, then I don't even know what to say to you. And the worst part is you all have spent all day talking about me and no one else really so it's highly unlikely anyone else will get lynched. So ika, I want to place a sig bet with you, Dom and/or Llama. When I flip I want you to put "I made a ridiculous case against Spacedaisy in Downton and was wrong about her," in your sig if I am civ.

I'm done talking, you all have already decided. I would just ask that when I am lynched and flip civ, please lynch llama next, so that he is the victim of his own faulty logic as well. He did after all, vote to lynch bubbles and then turn around and wanted to lynch me for her lynch. Takes zero responsibility for his own actions and lynches me because he claims I am protecting DF from lynch, despite the fact he has no idea what DF's role is. That is the basis of this freaking lynch, it's the stupidest case against me I have ever seen and if llama and Dom and ika are not bad, they are going to be eating a ton of crow when this lynch is over.

Epignosis wrote:Would you kill Silverwolf Night 1?

Me? If I had a kill, yeah I'd consider it. She's got great instincts for finding scum. But I don't have a kill or any part in any kills.

Bonus: I think anyone who wants to think it through could see why I have taken every opportunity to say in anyway I can that I am not bad, I don't have bad intentions, people who suspect me are wrong, etc.

1. I'm not protecting DF, I have no read on him, I can't read him,this is a well established fact. I don't know his alignment, there is a chance you will lynch him and find him bad, I don't know.

2. My point was not that I actually want you to lynch him, it's that your logic was deeply flawed. If you had a bad flip on DF, then it would make some sense to point at me but you have no flip on DF.

3. I care because I'm engaged in the game, no one wants to be lynched. And when I see flawed logic being used to paint me as bad, I'm going to point it out.

What is it about Scotty that you don't like?

Your alignment, there is no question regarding your (in)sanity.