The Syndicate

*short list

Ok, so this is the first chance I have had to post properly in like four days so I feel like I owe you all an explanation. My sister has been in town since Dec. 27. On top of that, I have worked every single day she has been here. And I will be working every day until she leaves on Sunday. On Monday we went for a day trip to Austin, on the way home I got a text from the third shift person that she couldn't come in. So instead of getting a day off I went in to work a third shift, which meant going without sleep for over 24 hours. I came home and slept for five hours and got up and went with my sister and husband to go to dinner and visit some San Antonio sites (for those on my fb, you should check out the video from the top of the Tower of Americas, it was really amusing). We got home late and I was tired and had to work early the next day, so I went to bed. I worked first shift on Wednesday and after work we went to dinner again and then we did some shopping. we again got home late and I went to bed, thinking I would have the next day off. I slept in Thursday just to get a text from my boss calling me in for second shift, which I could only do until 8 pm, because we had made plans with DFaraday to hang out and play board games. So we did that and then went to bed. Now I am here and have to be at work at 3 pm tonight. So that means I have about six hours to spend with my sister. I love you all, but I'm not wasting time on mafia that I could be spending with her. I have been half skimming to keep up, but have not posted.

I am quite certain that MP is not bad. I will not vote for him because I don't see any earthly reason I should. I am going to follow Golden's vote for Quin because he has been on my shirt list for a while. (And because they are both time travelers sent back to us from the future) I still think his defense about the LD was shady.

votes Quin

@Golden

Just so you know, I read your responses as very similar to the game in which you were civ and called for a kill on Epi. You seem genuinely aggravated by him, which is a very civ look on you. Just my two cents. I was undecided on you until this exchange.

Oh! Dr Montgomery. Well crap.

Uncle who? I'm confused...

I don't have a lot of time right now, but thankfully I did ISOs earlier. I'm comfortable voting Snow Dog because he left me questioning his alignment.

Voting Snow Dog

And going back to my party.

I'm not back and forth. I am confident you are not civ. Most likely Indy but could be bad. But I don't think you are civ.

I understand though I doubt I will vote there myself.

Yes but do you have a reason to believe he is mafia. Because that is why you would vote for him. Personally I think a Marco/Dom vote is baseless and lazy.

Epignosis wrote:Spacedaisy, I don't understand your confidence on MP.

I am fairly confident he is a wasted vote. His behavior screams indy to me and has since Day 0. It's not about trusting him, it's about simply not caring to vote for him because it is a waste of my time.

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:There are people who are posting less/scumhunting less than they would otherwise because they are afraid of dying by the other team via nightkill.

Who are they?

You're missing the point; I'm getting bored.
Why did you think that Snow Dog and DDL were partners based on the Snow Dog posts you quoted?

I didn't like how Snow Dog put a vote on DDL 'randomly' at first, but then came back to justify that he was considering two specific people. I don't buy that it was a simple reference to Vompatti because he felt the need to justify it beyond that. His change in mindset about DDL's alignment was sudden and I don't see the posts in his history that would support that change of opinion.

I think that it's unlikely that they're teammates now, because DDL proposing that the vig policy kill him would be a risky move, because it's something that I could see a vig might actually get on board with early on.

So you think that Snow Dog is bad but not a teamie with DDL, correct? Does that mean you are thinking DDL is good, or possibly bad on the other team?

sig wrote:I haven't read the thread yet and I don't know if I will tonight, however I don't want to lynch DDL or Dom 2.0 I think both lynches would be bad.

I agree that I think lynching DDL would be bad. I don't want to lynch Dom 2.0, but I have no read on what his role might be I just don't see any good reason for it, and would rather get a read on him in his new role before deciding if I should vote for him.

Regarding Elo, I'm currently leaning Indy on her I think. Her actions in Dom's lynch just read very indy. She would still want to buddy, because Indy's need to survive. It would fit the circumstances more naturally I think.

LMAO, I missed the yellow shirts comment and that makes me laugh. And reminds me of Seinfeld's "Golden Boy"

Nacho, her point was she was specifically asking for Epi's input because she had been cursed to call him Sir, so she was trying to find game related reasons to address him as Sir.

Can I get some other people's opinions on Snow Dog and Zebra as well? It is easier to interact with Elo since she is here but I don't want a runaway train simply because the others are not and those two are my other possible votes at this point within this smaller lynch poll...

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I like that it's Day 2 and I already have a decent number of people on the Nice list.

I need to work on my Naughty list.

Long Con, your name is on one of these lists.

Do you mind sharing your naughty and nice lists?

@LC, why do you think DDL is bad?

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

I think there are much more significant topics being discussed right now which make for better votes than than voting based on a flimsy hypothesis on why someone might have subbed out.

Then, please...tell me what they are. I missed about 16 pages that I simply don;t have time to read. DDL was the only one to post a summary for me and he said there wasn't much there. So...I just started where I came at.

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Yeah sounds nice, but when you're gut only wants to talk about one person, simply choosing someone else is not so easy. Nice avoidance of my question though. Duly noted.

I am rescinding my civilian opinion of you after that.

I didn't avoid your question. I gave you an an answer that will help me develop my opinion on you better, and I'd say it did the trick.

SD's response got me wondering about her as well. I actually though your reply to her was surprisingly kind for you. And then her response smelled of baddie.

WOAH.....from last night til this morning....EIGHT pages. Y'all are killing me. I've got to go get to work.

Yeah these were both from before the curse. I still don't lean civ on you. I just have to decide if I lean indy or bad at this point.

What I mean is you don't introduce new cases or reasons to suspect someone, or a personal observation, you mostly just agree with other people's cases that they have presented and maybe try and push it a bit from there, but you never push anything with much vigor. That is what I mean.

Linki @Nacho: I am town, yes. But no one should take my word for it, they can assess my game and decide for him/herself. Glad you believe in me though, seeing as I also believe you to be town, lol.

Elo, I was pretty straightforward when I said I didn't think this because of the Sir stuff. It is based on two things, you seem to be really sheeping a lot of people's opinions, and yes it looked like you were specifically trying to pocket Epi. I will read over your stuff again to see if I got that only since your curse or before. The word Sir is irrelevant to me, but if you were using the curse by addressing him to make it make sense in the context of the game I could see why I would have that impression. I'm going to check back on this. will comment in a moment.

Yeah, I just finished reading DDL. While there are some minor things that taken on their own might seem mildly suspect, I think his over all tone, contribution and game play reads very civ to me. I can't imagine voting him unless something major happens to change my mind.

So to recap, after reading them I have come to the conclusion I will not be voting Soneji or DDL.

I would consider a vote for Elo, Zebra or Snow Dog I think. Elo is the one I suspect the most, but I also think she might be indy so it might be a waste of time. I need to revisit the indy role descriptions.

So far I don't find anything suspicious in DDL, he reads extremely civ to me. But I am going to finish it to be sure it doesn't change my opinion.

Elo frequently gets overwhelmed and behind in games, it's why she usually says she likes Heists better than full games. But in all this time playing with her I have never felt like she specifically was sheeping Epi. It's a new move for her and I can't see a good reason for it that looks civ to me. I could see her being Indy, after her response to the Dom lynch though.

Still reading through DDL at the moment.

Nachomamma8 wrote:And hilariously enough, didn't read Spacedaisy's post above mine before that last post.

SD, why do you find Elo leaning on Epi to be odd behavior from her? It seems only natural to lean on someone close to you for reads; I get that you haven't seen it from her before, but have you played a game with her where she was extremely busy before (maybe she's more likely to lean on Epi when she doesn't have time) and why do you think she'd do that if bad when she can scumhunt genuinely in a multiball game?

I find it odd because it is out of character from what i have seen from her in the past, whether civ or bad. Elo has grown in her game a lot in the past couple years, and I find this behavior to be incongruent with growth I would identify as civ behavior, it looks more like someone trying to pocket someone else to me, and it makes sense because of exactly what you said, Epi being her spouse will carry more weight with the group. So if she could pocket him it would help her more as a baddie. Civ's don't need to pocket others, baddies do. And it sure looks like she is trying to pocket Epi to me.

Going to go on to DDL now... see you guys sometime tomorrow, I'm sure he has posted a lot as per his usual.

Nacho: That was no my point. My point was I think Elo knows that and is trying to buddy him by seeking out and sheeping his opinions. I actually am civ reading Epi and have been since the start.

Elo...

A couple things stand out to me regarding Elo. She seems to be sheeping a lot. And she seems to be buddying up to Epi. I don't mean the Sir thing either. I mean she is specifically asking him in particular for opinions and stuff. I don't recall seeing her doing that in the past. But she does try to pocket him when she is bad, and who could blame her. I've done the same to my husband. People tend to put more stock in a spouse/SO read of you.

Another thing I found concerning was her flip flop, before Dom flipped she was gunning for me and Quin. Then Dom flipped and she was all, "oh I should look at who started this train." Just such an easy flip flop, it makes me uncomfortable with her. Most votes are not that clear cut to sort out who on them was good and bad, and it feels like an attempt to pin something onto an easy lynch that doesn't affect her.

Leaning bad on Elo. Possibly Indy though.

Ok, to recap Snow Dog basically it's a whole lot of jokes, one line posts responding to questions and things with no real answers and the occasional one liner that actually adds a little something to conversation. I am torn here. He looks primarily like a half engaged, goofing off civ, but there is so little there yet he has three pages of posts when you click his "in this thread" link. That's more than either of the other two I've read so far. The amount of posts in comparison to what he has actually brought to the game scares me. He may be hiding behind the jokes. The only thing holding me back is the Day 0 comment, because it seems like a silly thing for a baddie to say, even in jest. I am really torn on Snow Dog. Day 0, even Day 1 I dismissed him as probably just a civ being silly, but now we are on Day 4 and I don't see where he has really weighed in heavily on anything or gave some concrete opinions that could help us to decide what alignment we think he is. Meh. I feel undecided here.

Next up Elo...

As I begin reading through Zebra's posts, I can see exactly what Soneji was saying about Zebra's response to Snow Dog's initial statement. I am also struck by the fact she was going on and on about how they (DDL, MM, Jack, Soneji, whoever else) were assuming what his intentions were and attacking his tactics, but Snow Dog has never given us any indication the comment was anything more than a joke, so her passionate tirade about accepting unusual tactics seems hypocritical at best and possibly emotional manipulation at worst. That said, I can see why she might have passionate about it since they were putting forward the idea of a possible policy lynch on someone who might be choosing to play without reading their role. So while I think it is hypocritical, I'm not sure it is intentional manipulation.

I had to laugh at the idea of Soneji suspecting her for revenge from a past game. Soneji has never struck me as the type for that. I could be wrong, I have not known him all that long, but it seems a bit dramatic to me.

Honestly, I've not seen anything in there that seems overtly baddie. But I have also not seen anything that spoke town to me. In fact, outside of the silly Snow Dog comment situation I have seen no contribution from her. So personally I am pretty neutral on Zebra at this point.

On to Snow Dog...

We can't lynch you today since you are not on the poll, so I will not talk about you anymore this lynch.

I will start by saying the following people I am unwilling to vote for without a really compelling case to convince me I am wrong about my reads on them:

Epi
MP
Nacho
Sig

(And obviously I won't be voting for myself )

I have no reason to suspect Marco before he was replaced and I don't see any reason to vote Dom out right after replacing in. At least with sprityo there was a case there, here I see no reason. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on that, but Marco was not even here was he?

So that leaves me with the following people to consider:
DDL
Elo
Snow Dog
Soneji
Zebra

Of those, I have gone back and done an ISO on Soneji. I found it making me feel more comfortable with him. During Day 1 I was under the impression that he was going against Snow Dog, when what I actually found was he was finding Zebra's response to Snow Dog's comment to be suspicious. Not because she defended him, but because she seemed to be attributing to it a strategy that there was no reason to believe was there and she was playing "gotcha" as he put it. I realized as I read it, that my feelings of Soneji doing something shady was cultivated not by what Soneji actually said but by the way Zebra (and possibly others) were framing it. The only thing he said or did that I found to be suspicious was his vote for Dom with no real supporting reasons.

I will go check out some more of these. I think this one makes me want to go check out zebra next.

Jack I'm in a training class. Posting from my phone. I would not even be posting and reading the thread like I am if not for the really bad smacking noise another guy at my table keeps making with his mouth and I absolutely NEED to distract myself or I might kill him. I cannot handle it, I feel an irrational sense of anger closing on rage because he has been doing this for three and a half hours. I can't give thoughts on something I have to go research. I will when I get home tonight. Watch the news to see if there is a story of a woman going postal on someone in San Antonio, that might be me....

Epi enjoys arguing/debating, especially semantics. Don't get hung up on it.

Sorry that wasn't arrogance, I thought I had missed what Sorsha's said.

Long Con wrote:You guys aren't getting it. I could really explain better if I could post on my computer and not my phone.

Quin isn't getting accused specifically of having certain teammates. The SNOW-DDL thing became a non-issue when the host said that statement wasn't checkable. All this stuff you are confronting Epi with is based on the SNOW-DDL statement and is rooted in an argument that doesn't exist any more.

Neither Epi nor I think Quin is bad based on the idea that he has certain teammates, so discrediting that argument is pointless.

I think Quin is bad based on his behaviour, and the point Sorsha made is good as well.

What was Sorsha's point?

Wait, we DO know that Dom's first role was not Olaf since we know his previous role. What we do NOT know is if the role he is in now was previously Olaf based on Olaf's kills.

Golden wrote:hmm - yeah, Dom subbing back in is a minefield. Should we presume he has no info? Probably best to infer nothing and make it off limits to discuss dons past life with him?

One thing we do know, Dom was not Olaf since Olaf killed.

@jack - what do you mean by 'Golden is following epi'?

We don't know that, DF has already said all Troupe kills will be written as Olaf regardless.

Fair enough. Kind of funny to me because my suspicion of LC was way more vague than MM. My care about MM was based on his amount of posts vs his lack of contributing content. But whatever.

I will say your point about it being unlikely Dom sent in an action is the best point I have heard in Quin's favor. But his reaction to the possibility he was checked by the LD makes me think he is a baddie caught for the wrong reasons.

Jack, can you please tell what vague not thought out suspicion from me you are referring to?

Quin, I thought Epi was being rude and he annoyed me but I've never really thought he was anything other than civ. Frankly the thing that makes me suspect you most is that you popped off the defense that you haven't made a detectable statement for the LD to have checked. I have no idea how many statements I may have made that could have been checked because I don't need to worry about my statements giving me away. The fact you obviously know you haven't made any checkable statements and even that you apparently are being careful not to make them, that is the biggest red flag to me.

I do think that, Dom was phrasing it with a lot of certainty imo.

Sorsha wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm sorry I missed the vote guys, my sister got in tonight for the beginning of a week and half visit. I got sidetracked and missed the poll end.

Sorsha, I was not trying to lure anyone from voting Dom, I was trying to keep things from being a one track lynch and at least get some input on other people, see what some of the late voters might say and consider some other options because I don't know what I think of such a runaway lynch tally...

Linki: Yep that would be why.

I think you mean Eloh, not me!

*facepalm* You're right, I do mean Eloh, I don't know how I mixed that up.

I'm sorry I missed the vote guys, my sister got in tonight for the beginning of a week and half visit. I got sidetracked and missed the poll end.

Sorsha, I was not trying to lure anyone from voting Dom, I was trying to keep things from being a one track lynch and at least get some input on other people, see what some of the late voters might say and consider some other options because I don't know what I think of such a runaway lynch tally...

Linki: Yep that would be why.

Well who else would you consider sig, same to you Wilgy?

I'm not sure why... I think it's because he defended sprityo? :shrugs:

Quin wrote:

sig wrote:

sprityo wrote:

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

I think there are much more significant topics being discussed right now which make for better votes than than voting based on a flimsy hypothesis on why someone might have subbed out.

Okay I somehow managed to miss eloh saying this and I agree with quin. This is lazy playing, an easy out.

This is interesting from Quin, some soft defense of Sprityo and quin was on another wagon. Which could have taken off.

I think the troupe was trying to avoid being on the same vote as Sprityo, since that would have put them under fire if/when Sprityo flipped. So instead they low key defended him/attacked people who were agaisnt him and joined other or started potential wagons.

It wasn't a soft defence. I made it pretty blatant over the course of the day that I opposed the main reason people were piling votes on sprityo. If you're gonna throw a case at me, make it hurt.

Quin likes it when you make it hurt apparently.

Dom is a guy.

Given all the secrets in this game I think it is a stretch to say it's impossible. I think it is highly unlikely but not impossible.

EBWOP: deep = derp

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

LoRab wrote:

I would like to point out that I would bet that the Lotab kill probably had someone involved in the decision who knew she was in Israel. Most likely a friend of hers, letting her enjoy her trip without worrying about mafia. Why else would a mafia team kill her when she is busy and fairly disengaged from the game?

Mr. Poe is a civilian.

He is? Strike everything I said then, lol. I thought that was a second baddie kill. Deep.

LoRab wrote:

I would like to point out that I would bet that the Lotab kill probably had someone involved in the decision who knew she was in Israel. Most likely a friend of hers, letting her enjoy her trip without worrying about mafia. Why else would a mafia team kill her when she is busy and fairly disengaged from the game?

Also, I agree regarding sig.

DDL, No one has been more annoyed with Epi this game than me but I have still been giving him a civ read. Because I know Epi well enough not to base my read upon his irritating game persona. I don't understand it or agree with his choices but I do think he is civ. In fact I think the only person who doesn't is INH.

Also Wilgy just came back and has engaged in the game quite well. If you said this 24 hours ago, or even twelve, I would agree. But not now, this is the most town vibe I've gotten from Wilgy in a while.

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Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Yeah sounds nice, but when you're gut only wants to talk about one person, simply choosing someone else is not so easy. Nice avoidance of my question though. Duly noted.

I am rescinding my civilian opinion of you after that.

I didn't avoid your question. I gave you an an answer that will help me develop my opinion on you better, and I'd say it did the trick.

:shrugs: I don't care, you would be wrong about me.

The only other person I would consider voting is MM (again), for the fact he is one of the top five posters and good luck finding some decent content in those posts...

Yeah sounds nice, but when you're gut only wants to talk about one person, simply choosing someone else is not so easy. Nice avoidance of my question though. Duly noted.