The Syndicate

FZ. wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:42 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:20 am Oh also NVN. I didn't actually curse you, I was redirected. It was good you messed it up because then whoever redirected it would have known instantly it was me.

FZ I understand, I enjoy playing with you. I only said that at the end because I want to be clear I don't fake emotional outbursts or whatever. It was probably misunderstanding what you meant. You are cool.

I'm glad we're okay. I don't doubt people when they tell me they had a shitty day and are not in the mood to play, because just like you, I try not to use personal life as an excuse.

I was Chava, the cop. The first night, I checked LC because something there felt off, but it was really a lucky hunch. Then, I spent most of the time trying to think of ways to not look like I was the cop and still get people to follow me. That is one hard job...I was sure the baddies were on to me and would kill me.

Next, I checked Wilgy, who turned out to be Golde. He had barely posted so I had almost nothing to "base" my opinions on. I started making things up. It's a good thing Epi did his shtick, because that was helpful for Wilgy.
The next night I was blocked, and the one after that I checked Marmot and got Tzeitel. Once again I had to fabricate evidence for you guys to follow me and not lynch him. I have no idea why Marmot did the things he did, or if he was indeed cursed the last day before I died. I just didn't know how to get you to listen. I'm glad JJJ finally understood.

The funny thing is, I checked Daisy the night before my last one, and DF didn't give me an answer. So I started out by wanting to lynch her anyway, but my back and forth with JJJ lead to me saying that the only person I'd consider switching to is NVN (Should have let him get lynched, I'd still be alive...), but I ended up keeping it on Daisy. But just when I was going to sleep, DF got back to me and said Daisy was actually this guy, so I had to stay up to make sure JJJ went back to Daisy. If you were wondering why I suddenly became so sure of myself, that's the reason

LC said you were the role check before he was even lynched but I thought he was wrong because all the night powers but ours got redirected to NVN when he didn't carry out the curse properly. So I knew you would have checked him. And you were advocating lynching him. So it looked to me like you must not be the checker because you didn't know if he was bad or not. I chose to kill Epi that night instead of you as a result because he was coming out certain that NVN was civ. You were right [mention]Long Con[/mention] and I should have listened.

I wasn't part of the team when you guys started, but we didn't really talk about it behind the scenes once I was in there.

Oh also NVN. I didn't actually curse you, I was redirected. It was good you messed it up because then whoever redirected it would have known instantly it was me.

FZ I understand, I enjoy playing with you. I only said that at the end because I want to be clear I don't fake emotional outbursts or whatever. It was probably misunderstanding what you meant. You are cool.

Curse roles are really hard you have to come up with a curse that helps you whether they make the conditions or not, and you want it to be something that doesn't tip any information to the person being cursed or to the players seeing it in action.

I went for a defend LC curse on you, because I thought it was unlikely he would survive and it would make you look scummy. Your actions were more than I could have hoped for, but it didn't matter in the end. You played well despite everything. It was a fun first game with you NVN. Hope it's not your last game with us.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:01 am Thanks for the game, DFaraday.

It was a fun one and my nerves were continually poked. I definitely didn't see Dizzy's death coming.

Sorry for that man, I focused my curses on maximizing the curse my predecessors placed on Dizzy. Thus trying to get Epi to split the vote enough to hopefully get Dizzy lynched, which didn't work. Wilgy being the lynch stop really fucked me. And it was Wilgy's decision to not do what I asked him to that gave me the votes to get her lynched instead of me. But after that my curses were more psychological. I was trying to shake everyone's confidence in information. It was my last shot in the dark to try and shake the PoE at that point.

Also sorry Epi, I know how frustrated you were.

Linki: I was literally so shaken by the revelation of the curse I was thrown off and did not know where to put my vote since everything was changing fast. It was a really bad day for us. I knew at the end of the day we were screwed.

A couple things I would like to say. First of all, I wrote my big posts and case against Jay before I knew my role. I was 100% certain that Jay was bad as I was catching up on the thread. I knew I was replacing, but I didn't know what my role or alignment was until when I was announced back in. I decided my best course of action was to play it just like I planned before I knew I was to be bad. So all my thoughts were my authentic civ thoughts at that point. Additionally, I had no idea my team had used my predecessor's role to force Dizzy to make a case until you saw me switch off Jay in the thread. I wasn't told and what I said about Epi mentioned a curse and so forth, also 100% truth. I say this because, dude I would never have gone after Jay if I had known so please don't judge my awful Day 2 play based on that. I swear I'm a better baddie than that.

Also, let me be perfectly clear. I consider it poor form to use your real life circumstances as a weapon to guilt or manipulate anyone. I was not ever doing that and the reaction you saw was authentic.

Anyway, well played civs, PoE does it again.

Ok, so apparently I'm still alive? I absolutely 100% endorse my lynch. It could be our undoing if you are still talking about me in LYLO.

Voting Daisy

Frankly, I'm at a loss if I am wrong about Marmot. And I won't be around to have to figure it out, so I guess... good luck? If pressed I would reconsider NVN maybe because he has basically been cleared only on the idea his response to Epi's antics seemed natural as far as I can tell. Unless I missed something else. I don't know otherwise. I still just don't see a bad Kyle, so yeah.

Good luck guys.

EBWOP: I wasn't based on your forced, sorry trying to sim at the same time.

P.S. I'm sorry to have been so grumpy the last couple days guys. And FZ in particular to you. I still don't agree with your accusation because it bothers me on a personal level, but I don't think you meant any disrespect and I am sorry for getting so upset about it.

11 minutes to the end of the poll is when I cast my vote. I discussed this fact with nutella later.

Linki: Dizzy I was based on your forced case/vote for him. I mean, there is wifom to consider but honestly I subscribe to the simplest explanation being the most likely. So not really no.

Let me be clear. I am not and do not lie about or try to use my real life to manipulate anything. My emotions in this thread are not about being lynched, I've told you to do it. My emotions in this thread are about the fact that I don't like that accusation. What I said in the thread regarding my mood yesterday was an explanation of why I was leaving for the night. Nothing more, but you have made it into something that bothers me. I'm not going to apologize for that fact. But I also am not saying any of that or this to influence the game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:57 pm Spacedaisy,

What do you think of the assertion that Marmot is the role which can earn -1 to its votes?

I think it's unlikely. I believe he's using a tactic to avoid getting lynched.

And I am going to take a nap now. I thought I was in a better mood to play, but clearly not because some of this stuff is really getting to me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:53 pm What is the point of complaining about how "BS" FZ's reasons are when you don't think she is aligned with the mafia team? If you believe that she is doing her best to find the right lynch, then wouldn't it be prudent to approach her without all these "you're bullshitting" accusations? How does that even make sense?

I didn't say she is bullshitting, I said her reasons are BS. As in I find it personally offensive that I had a shit night and her response is to basically say I am lying to guilt people.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:19 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:03 am I've had a long and aggravating day and I am not in the mood for mafia tonight. Lynch me, I don't care. But maybe then you will finally listen to what I had to say and lynch Marmot next. I'm out for the night.

This does not inspire confidence on Daisy's side either.

Why does everyone keep throwing their arms up and quitting? If these are civilians we're going to lose the game.

This is not what I did by any stretch of the imagination. I said I was not in the mood for mafia tonight meaning I had a shit day and I had no patience for a game where everyone has decided that I must be the logical next choice and is planning to vote me. I was in a foul mood, so I wasn't playing last night. That is not the same as giving up.

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:28 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:03 am I've had a long and aggravating day and I am not in the mood for mafia tonight. Lynch me, I don't care. But maybe then you will finally listen to what I had to say and lynch Marmot next. I'm out for the night.

I don't like this post. It feels like trying to guilt-trip us to not lynch her. The fact that I dislike the most is the fact that she says that after we lynch her we'll lynch Marmot. Is she claiming to know Marmot is bad? Because I doubt she does.
And she hasn't even voted for him herself. If she was so sure, she would have voted for him herself, wouldn't she?

I think I'm voting Daisy

First of all, I don't appreciate this. At. All. I had a fucking awful day yesterday and was in a really bad mood. I didn't come in and say, "Oh no don't lynch me because I had a bad day." I never guilted anyone, I just said I'm not going to be around last night because I was in no mood to play at that point. Also, why did you go from, "I'm looking for any other option than Daisy and then plopped on me based on this BS reason? Also I posted last before the Night had ended, I didn't vote yet because there wasn't a poll to vote in at that time. I am not claiming to know Marmot is bad, but I am claiming to strongly believe he is the last baddie.

Look, I have tried to make up for my shit play on Day 2. I have been contributing to this game and trying to find the scum and present cases as I see them. I've given all i could, and if you still think I am more suspect than Marmot, then lynch me. We are not losing the game over my lynch, so we can afford it. I don't want lynched because I value wins in which I am alive more than dead (I'm old school TP/ LP that way), but you do what you have to. Just don't lynch me based on BS, because that is what pisses me off. And frankly, FZ's reasons are major BS.

I'm voting Marmot.

I've had a long and aggravating day and I am not in the mood for mafia tonight. Lynch me, I don't care. But maybe then you will finally listen to what I had to say and lynch Marmot next. I'm out for the night.

I think I have never felt like Dizzy was acting out of anything but a civ mind set, she seemed frustrated more than anything else. And if she were bad she would probably have used the opportunity for Epi acting crazy to try and make him look bad, but she didn't. So I don't see her very loud cries for consensus as any reason to suspect her, Why do you find them suspicious?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:30 pm I am concerned. I just went back and looked over Marmot and yesterday he was hard after Mac for a while, but then when NVN started his silliness he changed gears not immediately but slowly, since then he has pretty much abandoned Mac, with little mention and no indication he had changed his mind that I could see. At first he seemed inclined to dismiss what NVN said. But it seemed he took it more seriously as it became more talked about. Then he comes in today and makes an assertion I have never seen before from him. It worries me that I might be wrong about him being 3P and he's riding the wave of anti-NVN sentiment.

@Marmot Have you changed your opinion of Mac? I take it you believe LC vs. NVN yesterday was late distancing?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:52 pm This was the first post he addressed to the NVN situation:

Spoiler: show

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:23 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:07 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:06 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:00 pm Huh. Sudden burst of content from NVN heavily pushing an LC lynch. Very odd.

I'm feeling pretty confident in an LC lynch at the moment and voting accordingly.

Just clearing my name. Sloonei asked to hear from me, I delivered. But it's all I have so far.

For some reason I believe this. I'm gullible.

I feel similarly.

A follow-up from Long Con would help this read.

This was the second:

Spoiler: show

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:30 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:29 pm But actually real talk why is Nova voting LC? See, I thought Nova was our info role, but I had also considered the possibility that he's LC's teammate trying some hardcore bussing strategy. That would be pretty wild and daring but like... if he knows LC is bad why isn't he voting for LC? Does he think the 3p is a bigger threat at the moment?

I've voting novacaine for this same reason.

If I'm a third party, why vote for me?

I thought perhaps something had changed in the conversation around NVN during that time, but nothing did. In fact it doesn't seem to have been discussed aside from the one post from nutella that he quoted. The only thing of note aside from that post that changed was Jay's "oopsie" vote for Marmot.

Interestingly, he does try to undermine the PoE by shaking at the people getting universal town reads too.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:35 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:34 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:33 pm But I've got a solid gut feeling that one of the more perceptive players in this game is the other mafia member. In that shortlist, I would include MacDougall, Jay, and Sloonei.

Any idea what gives you that vibe?

Your oopsie.

And then this:

Spoiler: show

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:39 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:38 pm Wondering if the mafia team is just LC and NVN and this is that easy.

Here have a vote.

Why is that easy? Why would nova come into the thread, suggest info on his teammate, and vote for someone he think is independent?

/quote]

But he came in today with a confident assertion that NVN is bad. It just worries me that I've misread him.

linki @JaggedJimmyJay I have never seen him or anyone make the assertion NVN was forced to make a case against Marmot.

This sums up where my concern comes from. On a day when it was looking like a certain lynch of NVN, it just really looked like he was banking on the anti-NVN sentiment. And his behavior in the previous lynch didn't add up.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:30 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:21 pm @Marmot I don't understand what you mean by what you've said about me. I came in with my suspicion of you and then Epi came in yelling we need consensus and FZ moved to NVN and I said if that's what everyone else wanted I would go with it, but that I still felt like you bwere a better option. And then basically followed what Epi asked me to do. What did you want or expect me to say. It was clear there was some fuckery going on but what was I supposed to say about it?

@FZ. I have never ever made any such statements and it boggles my mind that you would even claim that. I recommend you read my stuff again before you come back and come up with a better case than that because it's flat out false. Regarding Epi's schtick, what was weird? I pretty much tried to give him latitude to do what he needed to because at this point I have no reason not to trust him.

@JaggedJimmyJay You want to lynch me next that's fine. It will only waste one lynch. But I would urge you to lynch Marmot next because I really believe you'll find your final baddie there. I've already addressed this point against me so I'm not going to rehash old ground. You do what you need to, and if it means lynching me to narrow PoE, so be it.

I was talking about Dyslexicon, not you. What are you referring to?

LOL, then your post was super unclear to me when I read it. i even read it twice at a total loss for where you would get that idea from about me. Disregard. It makes total sense if you were talking about Dizzy.

[mention]Marmot[/mention] I don't understand what you mean by what you've said about me. I came in with my suspicion of you and then Epi came in yelling we need consensus and FZ moved to NVN and I said if that's what everyone else wanted I would go with it, but that I still felt like you bwere a better option. And then basically followed what Epi asked me to do. What did you want or expect me to say. It was clear there was some fuckery going on but what was I supposed to say about it?

[mention]FZ.[/mention] I have never ever made any such statements and it boggles my mind that you would even claim that. I recommend you read my stuff again before you come back and come up with a better case than that because it's flat out false. Regarding Epi's schtick, what was weird? I pretty much tried to give him latitude to do what he needed to because at this point I have no reason not to trust him.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] You want to lynch me next that's fine. It will only waste one lynch. But I would urge you to lynch Marmot next because I really believe you'll find your final baddie there. I've already addressed this point against me so I'm not going to rehash old ground. You do what you need to, and if it means lynching me to narrow PoE, so be it.

Fish tank changed and I'm back.

I'll be here so I will chill. For a few minutes I'm going to step away though. I need to change the fish tank. brb.

You want me to move to Wilgy then?

For you. Ok, got it.

Sorry, had a phone call and took a quick shower, just got back. You want me to move to marmot?

I'm willing to go with the concensus if it's NVN, though I am leaning more Marmot after looking at yesterday. I just feel like his reasoning is really convoluted and it seems like he came in really assertive of NVN when that was kind of the thing to do and I don't feel like it seemed like he felt that way yesterday until things started possibly swinging against him.

But we can afford to lose one lynch if I am right, so I can roll with Epi's request if NVN is the way the majority want to go. I'll switch to NVN.

Or 3. NVN wasn't forced at all and just fumbled and Marmot might be reaching for any kind of justification at the moment.

What is it that makes you move your vote to NVN?

linki @Epi: I can be around most of today, I'm off.

I'm not sure I'm following what Marmot is saying.

FZ: sometimes when someone changes their vote it makes the poll glitch for them and shows up like that.

Voting Marmot for now.

Linki: You're welcome, weird definitely suits you.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:17 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:11 pm we're also going to have to figure out what to do with NVN sooner or later. He seems to be stretched pretty thin mafia-wise, and it doesn't appear that he's going to dump a load of content on us any time soon. His spot seems doomed to sit around in single-digit posts for this game. As the POE pool continues to shrink, his spot does not budge.

The only info I would have is that I think you guys are right about LC, but wrong about him. He reads Mafia and I don't see any case being made of him as Town

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:14 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:07 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:35 pmMac 2nd Mafia/3rd Party
Marmot 2nd Mafia/3rd Party

I'm interested in these reads, NVN. You list them both as potentially being either mafia or 3rd party. what stands out about these two, and which do you think is more likely to be mafia, and which is more likely to be 3rd party?

I've been following their quarrel since the beginning of the game. There isn't a lot of substance behind it, it just felt like two scum going at each other and trying to gain Town credits by lynching a scum.
I'm leaning towards Macdougall being the Mafia and Marmot being the 3rd Party. I didn't like how he put his vote on Marmot early D1. His whole reasoning was based on the fact that he usually find Mafia that are missed by most people. He even admitted that Marmot's content read Town but his scum read was a gut feeling lol.

*looks at poll*

Marmot, he's telling the truth that he voted you first. It was unclear because he didn't state his vote in thread. So it would appear I was wrong, the only things that changed between that first post where you were believing him to the second one where you voted him was nutella lone post and a vote from both Jay and NVN.

This was the first post he addressed to the NVN situation:
This was the second:
I thought perhaps something had changed in the conversation around NVN during that time, but nothing did. In fact it doesn't seem to have been discussed aside from the one post from nutella that he quoted. The only thing of note aside from that post that changed was Jay's "oopsie" vote for Marmot.

Interestingly, he does try to undermine the PoE by shaking at the people getting universal town reads too.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:35 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:34 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:33 pm But I've got a solid gut feeling that one of the more perceptive players in this game is the other mafia member. In that shortlist, I would include MacDougall, Jay, and Sloonei.

Any idea what gives you that vibe?

Your oopsie.

And then this:
But he came in today with a confident assertion that NVN is bad. It just worries me that I've misread him.

linki [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] I have never seen him or anyone make the assertion NVN was forced to make a case against Marmot.

I am concerned. I just went back and looked over Marmot and yesterday he was hard after Mac for a while, but then when NVN started his silliness he changed gears not immediately but slowly, since then he has pretty much abandoned Mac, with little mention and no indication he had changed his mind that I could see. At first he seemed inclined to dismiss what NVN said. But it seemed he took it more seriously as it became more talked about. Then he comes in today and makes an assertion I have never seen before from him. It worries me that I might be wrong about him being 3P and he's riding the wave of anti-NVN sentiment.

[mention]Marmot[/mention] Have you changed your opinion of Mac? I take it you believe LC vs. NVN yesterday was late distancing?

I've been reading through my night at work but I'm struggling with a really bad migraine tonight guys so I can't handle looking at the screen anymore. Night guys.

I actually just finished faster than I expected and I did not find what I was looking for so perhaps nutella is right that I was confusing it with something from earlier, I really don't know now. But it was interesting to read yesterday's lynch over again. Now I have to get ready for work, I'll be back later after I get home. I may try to read while I am working, but we'll see.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:47 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:45 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:43 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:42 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:40 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:37 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:36 am

She's dead.

And his other teammate has given him to the wolves.

Who might that be ?

U

I don't think so but it could be.

I'd lynch several people before Nova at this point.

I'd lynch a couple of people before kyle.

I'd be like

Kyle/Marmot/nutella/Nova

Pretty sure everyone else is a civ. Don't particularly care in what order those are lynched.

Did I miss you saying why you have nutella in here, Mac? She is one I would not vote today, considering Lorab's flip.

I have to go to work in half an hour too, so I probably will have to finish this reading when I get home.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:57 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:28 pm I honestly could and would vote for any of these three who have votes. I'm going to leave my vote on Marmot for now because I am happy to see any of them lynched and I'd like for him to remain a viable lynch.

Linki: Is the eyeroll because Marmot is good or because you think that post is very maphier?

It's posts like these that have made me feel like Mac is civ. The game is littered with these type of posts from Mac. I feel like even when he arrives at different reads than me, his approach/mind set always seems consistently civ to me.

What is it about that post that you like? I could argue that Mac left himself an opening to drive at least two lynches other than Long Con in that post.

LOL, see this is where my way of thinking seems to cause trouble. I read that and I think, yeah you could easily leave LC in the lead and cast a vote to keep pressure on others and see how they and other voters respond to it. This was not the end of the lynch, there was still time. With LC having a huge lead there is little to gain from it. It is an easy move for a baddie to bus their teammate, suspicion of LC wasn't going anywhere. We can't really thin out our PoE pool from that lynch because a vote cast for LC doesn't mean much when he loses 9-2-1. I see a civ mindset in his wanting to keep pressure on someone else he suspected. But my brain works backwards from other people's sometimes it seems.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:28 pm I honestly could and would vote for any of these three who have votes. I'm going to leave my vote on Marmot for now because I am happy to see any of them lynched and I'd like for him to remain a viable lynch.

Linki: Is the eyeroll because Marmot is good or because you think that post is very maphier?

It's posts like these that have made me feel like Mac is civ. The game is littered with these type of posts from Mac. I feel like even when he arrives at different reads than me, his approach/mind set always seems consistently civ to me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:17 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:11 pm we're also going to have to figure out what to do with NVN sooner or later. He seems to be stretched pretty thin mafia-wise, and it doesn't appear that he's going to dump a load of content on us any time soon. His spot seems doomed to sit around in single-digit posts for this game. As the POE pool continues to shrink, his spot does not budge.

The only info I would have is that I think you guys are right about LC, but wrong about him. He reads Mafia and I don't see any case being made of him as Town

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:14 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:07 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:35 pmMac 2nd Mafia/3rd Party
Marmot 2nd Mafia/3rd Party

I'm interested in these reads, NVN. You list them both as potentially being either mafia or 3rd party. what stands out about these two, and which do you think is more likely to be mafia, and which is more likely to be 3rd party?

I've been following their quarrel since the beginning of the game. There isn't a lot of substance behind it, it just felt like two scum going at each other and trying to gain Town credits by lynching a scum.
I'm leaning towards Macdougall being the Mafia and Marmot being the 3rd Party. I didn't like how he put his vote on Marmot early D1. His whole reasoning was based on the fact that he usually find Mafia that are missed by most people. He even admitted that Marmot's content read Town but his scum read was a gut feeling lol.

*looks at poll*

I think I missed this when it happened. NVN, did you explain why you thought Mac was bad, Marmot 3P but your vote went to Marmot instead of Mac?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:23 pm "Interesting". what was "interesting" about my decision to vote for LoRab, daisy? Pretend I asked this in Epignosis' voice.

Interesting in that I didn't feel like I had a read on Lorab and I wanted to know more.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:23 pmI don't love this post. I almost get a nervous sense from it. Daisy took a lot of time fumbling over people who might be suspects before she was "left with" LC. At this point, a teammate attempting to defend LC would be a giant red siren.gif, so in the universe where Daisy is scum she kind of has to go along with LC's lynch. She defers to other people's cases as if they are irrefutable as justification for her LC vote, but surrounds this commentary with a lot of waffly reads on others: "I would to sasy I suspect Kyle, but I just don't"; "I don't know what to think of NVN"; and that whole first paragraph about the Mac/Marmot relationship doesn't seem to go anywhere. In making this accusation, I am reminded of my own justification for voting Daisy Day 1, so that's something to be careful of. Still, this is not an extremely encouraging post. There was very little mention of either LC or LoRab prior to the hear against either of them. Daisy appeared to make an attempt to interact with the LoRab case, but never followed up on it at all. She mostly seems to have ignored LC until he had one foot in the grave. Not a totally inspiring look, and based solely on these relationships I could see Daisy as scum.

I see her in the linki. I'll go ahead and post this anyway and then see what she's saying.

Something you have to understand about LC is that I rarely read him right so I don't trust myself there. I actually think I felt him more a slight orange feel when I came back in originally, but his case against speedchuck swayed me to move him to slight green because I was having trouble with speedchuck myself. I struggle with him because he latches on to things I rarely think mean anything. He picks people's wording apart and builds cases on that civ or mafia alike and I can never get a handle on him as a result because I have been one to fall victim to a stupid argument regarding how I word things. It makes me tend to read him bad. I've come to recognize that and it leaves me more uncertain about him most of the time. I usually get him wrong. Meh. I wasn't nervous, not sure why you got that from this post. I'm sorry you saw it as fumbling, could be because I am trying to realign my thoughts after the last day I guess.

[mention]nutella[/mention], Aside from his back and forth with Mac, I've never really felt like there was much in the way of anything concrete from Marmot, which reads to me more likely as a 3P. Uninvested in civ win or loss, but wanting to stay alive. Being less concrete in a stance allows him to be less threatening to both other factions. Less likely to die. But there is the chance that could just be Marmot being Marmot, I can't discount the possibility of civ or mafia completely with him. Still lean 3P though, all things considered.

Mac on the other hand seems to be actually putting content into the thread which is concrete, strong stances, attempting to game solve. I find it unlikely he is bad, he could be 3P. If I were 3P, I would be playing as much like a civ as I could, while trying not to be too big a threat, so I could see him possibly being 3P. More likey civ in my mind though.

I fell kind of quiet last night while I was trying to find what I was looking for by doing some ISO's of the last twenty four hours of Mac and Marmot. I wasn't able to find it, which is frustrating so I'm just currently reading over all of the last cycle to try and find it. With my luck it will be nothing important and a huge waste of time, but whatever man.

As a note, I also tried to look at the Mac/Marmot exchange (because I thought it was in there) and considering Mac started on Marmot on Day 1, and we only have one remaining baddie it's clearly not a distancing ploy so I feel like the only scenarios I would entertain here are:

Mac is 3P/Marmot is bad
Mac is civ/Marmot is bad
Mac is civ/Marmot is 3P
Mac is civ/Marmot is civ

All that to say I think at worst Mac might be 3P, but I lean civ on him. Marmot seems more likely 3P, but could also fit for bad, I'd need to double check LC/Marmot, and I know there was little to nothing for Marmot/Lorab. I feel Marmot is least likely to be civ of the two of them.

Just came across this and feel it relates to the above:

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:45 pm I think it's interesting that there's been so much fringe attention paid to Marmot and Mac today. LC is the consensus top suspect, Daisy and NVN have received a good deal of scrutiny, and I've been loudly hanging onto my Kyle thing. But nearly all of the focus once you get past those names has been on that M&M pairing. The two of them have been pointing at each other since last night, Long Con came in pushing Mac as his top suspect, and NVN is pushing the two of them as suspects after Long Con. It's too soon to know what to make of it exactly, but it's something I want to make note of now so it can be looked into later on when we have more solid information to work with.

Sloonei, do you feel like the focus on Mac/Marmot was a distraction then on the part of NVN and LC? Or are you thinking there was some distancing going on, or what? What exactly did you find interesting about this? And how do you think the LC flip affects the fact they got so much attention yesterday?

More on my reading when I am done.

I'm confused, I thought I remembered Mac posting a case he wanted us to read and tell him our opinions on it. But now I can't find it so I am wondering if I have mixed him up with someone else.

Alright, well I've been trying to keep up throughout the day while I was working. I took a nap when I got home and accidentally slept for three hours! :eep: I'm here now though, sorry guys. I'm going to try and post my thoughts about the people discussed today.

This day has been weird. Mac posted a request to read something about Marmot a while ago, I didn't at the time but I will go back and do that after I post here. Mainly because I don't quite understand why he is so sure of Marmot. I really haven't felt much of anything about Marmot. So maybe I'm missing something there. I'll post more on him once I read what Mac has said.

I would like to say I suspect Kyle, because everyone seems to think he and I are equally suspicious based on our actions, but I just don't. Everything Kyle says reads like sincere Kyle to me. Lorab's flip didn't change that. And the fact he isn't swung by self preservation just to say "It must be Daisy" either just makes me feel that much more like he is sincere and trying to find actual baddies.

I don't think Mac is bad, despite Marmot's no u. :shrugs:

This leaves me with LC. The thing I can't get past is Epi's case about the vote LC placed yesterday coupled with the fact Lorab didn't vote to save herself. I can't think of a single good reason not to vote to save yourself if you are in a lynch tied with a civ. No one would think less of someone who casts a self preservation vote. So why didn't she?

NVN, I don't know what to think of him. Nothing and then a bunch of posts in self defense. I didn't even think he (? correct me if I am wrong) was even actually playing. I was actually kind of worried the stuff in the early game had driven him off. I would say he would be a second suspect for me, the timing of the sudden activity combined with the voting shenanigans has me questioning. I still think I feel more confident in LC though. I mean if NVN were bad, he could have kept right on laying low and it would have taken a while for PoE to get to him. I don't know. LC is more suspicious to me.

I'm going to go ahead and put a vote on LC and then go back and look at Mac's case again.

*Votes LC*

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:56 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:44 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:34 pm @MacDougall Seems like a piss poor strategy to me, but whatever you want to think you go ahead. But to be clear, I have never shied away from bussing teammates in the past.

Making actions so you can point at them later to gain civ cred is a piss poor strategy?

Guess that makes me a piss poor Mafia player then.

Seems like it would make way more sense to do something likely to buy you some civ cred than to take an action you have to explain and defend. Taking the clearly civ looking path makes more sense to me as a baddie than taking a weak move and taking the fall out just in order to say, "but if I was bad I wouldn't have done that!" But maybe that's just the way I play. Also, don't make it personal man, I wasn't saying anything about your gameplay. The piss poor comment was because if I was bad and had bussed her, I wouldn't likely be in the orange for people who previously were coloring me green. If that was my strategy it sure as hell seems to not be a very good one. That's all I meant.

Everything you said is wifom. That's the argument for why your action is capable of being a scum action. It's wifom. And as such needs to be completely ignored.

I'm fine with that. It's not like this is the only thing I've said regarding yesterday. So disregard those two sentences out of my entire post all you like. I don't give two shits man.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:44 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:34 pm @MacDougall Seems like a piss poor strategy to me, but whatever you want to think you go ahead. But to be clear, I have never shied away from bussing teammates in the past.

Making actions so you can point at them later to gain civ cred is a piss poor strategy?

Guess that makes me a piss poor Mafia player then.

Seems like it would make way more sense to do something likely to buy you some civ cred than to take an action you have to explain and defend. Taking the clearly civ looking path makes more sense to me as a baddie than taking a weak move and taking the fall out just in order to say, "but if I was bad I wouldn't have done that!" But maybe that's just the way I play. Also, don't make it personal man, I wasn't saying anything about your gameplay. The piss poor comment was because if I was bad and had bussed her, I wouldn't likely be in the orange for people who previously were coloring me green. If that was my strategy it sure as hell seems to not be a very good one. That's all I meant.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] Seems like a piss poor strategy to me, but whatever you want to think you go ahead. But to be clear, I have never shied away from bussing teammates in the past.

Let me clarify, I felt it was being directed away from topics that should be discussed. And if that was the way I felt I was asking myself why would someone want that? I came to the conclusion that one or two of you, Jay and Sloonei were bad as a result of that. Direction is not bad, misdirection is. And I felt like it was misdirection.

This game is one of the most frustrating I have played in recent memory. I apologize for not being back in here sooner, I worked this morning had a nap and then went to the grocery. It's been a long day and I am tired and grumpy.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] Perhaps I wasn't clear in what the difference was between my first mega post and my second. My first post was literally me just going through and giving my read on each post as it came. Just knee jerk reactions. It was also still very colored by my emotional response to the surprise lynch. The second post was after I could sit back and think on everything, and had time to form some suspicions. The biggest thing in my mind at that time was that I felt the thread was being directed. And of the people who I thought seemed to be doing that were you and Epi, add that into the fact you two seem to be dancing very loudly around each other all freaking game, yet never seemed to really want to lynch each other. It just looked really suspect to me.

[mention]nutella[/mention] , I don't think you get what was happening in my mind during the vote. I came back in replacing Dave and I was focused on what I believed was happening, like never would I have imagined me putting my vote on anyone other than Jay at the end of the day. Never. At some point I thought I saw someone (Epi I think?) mention that she might be cursed. And she said something about this being her only post or something of that nature. I guess I just thought she was under a posting curse of some sort. I thought it was weird she was continuing to post if under a posting restriction, but again my focus was on Jay. As the EoD got closer, most people were not in here because they had MK EoD. I started my sim, but it ran twice as long as usual so a half hour before EoD, I started looking at what was happening while still trying to play my game. It hit me as I tried to multitask that I had misunderstood the situation completely and I can't even tell you how much it shook me. If Dizzy was forced to vote Jay it called my top suspicions into question. It should be noted I moved my vote only 11 minutes before the vote ended. If you really expect I could have cast a confident vote anywhere in 11 minutes after I felt like my entire point of view had been possibly turned on it's head, you have too high of expectations in my opinion. I really didn't have any idea coming into the lynch that the curse mentioned was not a curse but probably a force. I wish your theory was true, because then it would mean I was attempting some manipulation rather than just being so off in my suspicion.

As to everyone else suspecting me for my non stance on Lorab, fair enough. You're wrong, but at least your suspicions are better grounded this time around. I can't have reads on everyone and like I already said, my focus was on Jay, Epi and Sloonei and sorting out who I thought was bad there. I just didn't feel like I had any read on her. Yep, it looks bad, but I can't change that it just is what it is.

If I was a team with Lorab why would I not just either bus her or cast a vote to save her? How does voting off accomplish anything?

Alright guys, I have to sleep. Goodnight.