The Syndicate

Hey, now I can play in the next GoC

Sorry it was frustrating for you Long Con. And I didn’t show back up before the poll end because I have been swamped with files under a deadline.

Thank fucking god

Good question. @Lime Coke And why are you sure it's Long Con and not me?

Argh, I hate Brad's tone. It's so meek and lacks any urgency.

I feel like this is a gut or logic situation.

Because Lime Coke's tone was hardly convincing me he is civ. And I pushed Long Con into voting Lime Coke straight out of the gate so Lime Coke has no choice but to vote Long Con.

But Lime Coke has talked a lot about analyzing night kills so I can't imagine if he was bad he wouldn't be making strategic choices here. And killing SVS was anything but for him. He would have needed to kill Long Con to be most likely to secure a victory. Bah.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I always find myself at this point in games, saying fuck it! And pressing that submit button. I have to stick with logic. Also considering the fact Lime Coke did not vote, and Long Con gave me a subtle push toward Lime Coke instead of Roxy in the last poll, but he didn't stick with it when the logic didn't bear it out, so it wasn't exactly a hard push.

Yeah, I have to stick with this vote. I said to myself during the night that if Long Con was alive today, he would have to be bad and I have to stick with that analysis. God, I hope I'm right.

I wish I would have kept my mouth shut and let you guys both talk first today. But I felt very confident that there is no reason for LC to be alive today unless he's bad. And I still lean that way, but I always question myself at this point.

My vote won't be staying there, to be clear.

I'm not going to give Lime Coke anymore arguments in his favor. I want to see him come in here and talk to us. And assuming this is not against the rules, I'm going to move my vote to [VOTE: no elimination] aubergine until he's around and we can get proper conversation.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:50 pm Please, just look at their ISOs how they treated each other all game.

Ok, I will. Later tonight after I finish working I'll read them for how the treated each other. Then I'll read for how you and Roxy treated each other.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:49 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:47 pm Come on, Long Con. If Lime Coke is bad, all he had to do was kill you. SVS was not about to be convinced to move her vote off of me. She was all in on trusting him. Lime Coke would have had an easy ride to victory.

Not the way you've been solving this endgame. I highly doubt her faith in his townness would have trumped that. I'm alive so you can vote for me.

But up until right now, I have had a pretty big suspicion of Lime Coke. Why would he keep someone who suspected him in (you) over someone who trusted him (SVS) when the other person still in also suspected him?

I'll look back over it a little later tonight. I have a ton of work for the next couple days. But I will be in here on my breaks and whenever I can steal a minute, because it's an important phase and I'm not going to vote and just walk away.

Come on, Long Con. If Lime Coke is bad, all he had to do was kill you. SVS was not about to be convinced to move her vote off of me. She was all in on trusting him. Lime Coke would have had an easy ride to victory.

Feel free to try to change my mind to you both though.

If Lime Coke is bad, he would have killed you and left SVS alive because she was in his pocket. If SVS was bad, she would have killed you and easily swung Lime Coke onto me. But if you are bad, you would have to kill SVS because she trusted both of you and she would have to re-evaluate her world view.

LOL, there is no world in which you should be alive today Long Con

Man, I really hope you haven’t fooled me lol

This is the worst part. Waiting to see if I cast the right vote.

Here is what I’m looking at. If you and SVS are both good, voting Roxy is best.

If you are bad and SVS is good, voting Roxy is still best because I think she’s more likely your partner based on your treatment of her and Lime Coke today.

If you are good and SVS is bad, the best vote is Lime Coke because he’s more likely her partner.

So for me, the best vote is probably Roxy.

And SVS, arrghh.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:38 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:36 pm Will both have votes on them, sorry. Thyroid brain makes me fuck up function words.

Wait ,could you start that thought again? Who would both have votes on them?

I cant, i think i wasn’t considering everything and I’m just confusing myself, lol. Just disregard it.

Let say SVS and both of us are good…

You’re right about the tie. That would be a crap way to end.

Let’s say SVS is bad, voting Roxy loses the game for us.

I think this comes down to what we believe about each other.

Will both have votes on them, sorry. Thyroid brain makes me fuck up function words.

Mmm, it depends on if you are good or bad.

If SVS is good and she voted Roxy and she is also good, leaving you and Lime Coke as bad, then civs are toast.

If you are good, we’re ok either way because the wolves will not have votes on them.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:08 pm Is she even going to come back to vote? Is Lime??

I’m really hoping so because if they aren’t I think I’m in a bad spot and probably one of you or SVS is bad.

If she’s civ and we vote Lime Coke, we’re toast.

It comes down to what we believe about SVS. If she’s civ, Roxy is the best vote. If she’s bad, Lime Coke is the best vote.

Basically, Roxy’s case seems like a stretch to me. SVS had a decent case on you. Im not saying you’re bad. Im saying Roxy’s case is incredibly weak and a weird thing to latch onto.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:22 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:20 pm I also find Roxy’s case on SVS a little weird. She picked where SVS said “I think” and then basically was using what she believed to be meta on me and compared it to where SVS suspected Long Con because of essentially giving reasoning for my actions. I get why she asked you those questions. I would have aligned me and you as wolf teammates based on that. We aren’t wolf teammates though, but it is an understandable suspicion so it’s weird that was what Roxy zeroed in on.

I didn't think that was the point of that interaction, but maybe I'm thinking of a different part. I thought she was calling out S~V~S for accusing me of claiming to know your mind, while at the same time saying she knew your mind. No?

Yeah, SVS was calling you out for that, but Roxy was saying she thought it was weird that SVS called you out for that while doing it herself. What she was referring to was not SVS “reading my mind.” It was SVS thinking it would be out of character of me.

Yeah good point. like I said, Lime Coke is the most likely SVS teammate if she is bad. Also voting first is a good look for her, though it doesn’t mean as much in a game where votes can be moved and there is no hammer.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:15 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:08 pm Who do you think would be the most likely SVS teammate?

Lime Coke is what would be the most obvious answer. You me and Roxy have been suspicious of her and she is dismissing Lime Coke as bad on basically vibes.

But, maybe Roxy is distancing? But she’s been on basically just SVS all along.

I also find Roxy’s case on SVS a little weird. She picked where SVS said “I think” and then basically was using what she believed to be meta on me and compared it to where SVS suspected Long Con because of essentially giving reasoning for my actions. I get why she asked you those questions. I would have aligned me and you as wolf teammates based on that. We aren’t wolf teammates though, but it is an understandable suspicion so it’s weird that was what Roxy zeroed in on.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:08 pm Who do you think would be the most likely SVS teammate?

Lime Coke is what would be the most obvious answer. You me and Roxy have been suspicious of her and she is dismissing Lime Coke as bad on basically vibes.

Uuggghhh.

So it comes down to an I right about SVS being more likely civ because three people suspecting her are still in or is it Lime Coke and Roxy and SVS is still here because they believed she’d be an easier mislim.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:13 pm
So the No U is not a thing I love, but in this case it isn't that you (or Daisy) susses me; I think LC is town. LC BELIEVES what he said; I'm not sure that you or Daisy do, and that's the difference. If LC is bad, and thus insincere, I'll be flabbergasted, and super impressed. It's that you both used LC's case as a starting point. And you both know me well enough to see things without that if I were bad. But you didn't cause I'm not.

Also yeah, that no discussion thing is a thing, they did it in another game recently, and i get the math. But I do agree that, esp in a mountainous game, the yeet is our only tool. I was a bit eeehh about Abbi (and tbh Brad) due to it, but Abbi being NK killed that for me.

This is not true of me at all. I reacted to you when I came back right off because of how you responded to the vote the previous day. Then Long Con’s case added a layer on top of it, specifically pointing out things about your treatment of me that some of it I was already thinking and some of it I hadn’t looked at it the way he put it. I was already weirded out by your treatment of what happened to me. It felt like a very reductionary view of what happened.

Oh man, I’m so frustrated that we are saying the same things, making the same points and still we aren’t on the same page.

:: sighs :: I’m going to get sleep now. This third shifter will be around early evening probably.

Yes! I just realized you are getting what I’m saying about what Lime Coke had said about his vote move! He and I cannot both be telling the truth. And I don’t see why a baddie would lie about it at this point, it really doesn’t matter, but there is a lie here. He’s already changed his story once when I called him on it. Why do you think it’s me lying still?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:08 am So the baddies could use his case on me and get me miselimmed. TBH, I expected him to be NK the other night, it's what I would have done if i were bad. NK LC, then come after his suspect for NKing the person pushing *THEM* as a baddie. When you're bad nothing is sweeter than manipulating the townies into killing each other.

proofread fail, too many subjects in that sentence lol.

This is exactly what I’ve been saying. Why is Long Con still here? Only two possibilities imo. Because he’s wrong about you or because he’s bad. Looking at how many other people have made cases against you or expressed suspicion of you, it makes me think he’s here because you’re town, which is why I’m really trying to get on the same page as you here.

See looking at his statement doesn’t even make sense. He saw me vote before he even changed his vote according to him. This is a flagrant lie. It’s 100% not possible.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:21 am Reading this exchange it basically means someone is lying about the timing of their votes. I don't think it's Brad

This whole exchange between them is worth reading; it strarts about post 833 and ends here VV, #859; Brad makes two short nai posts after this one, but this post basically ends the conversation. I look forward to Daisys reply.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 7:09 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 7:01 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:55 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:54 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:46 am You said I changed my vote already, I didn't change my vote until :59.

You posted at :59, but when I pressed the vote button and it refreshed the votes were already different. I voted first and then tried to post, unsuccessfully. Someone else had moved onto Wilgy before me. But as I point out later in my many posts from tonight your move onto Wilgy is the biggest indicator that you might actually be civ. I just don't understand why you acted as if you didn't know who had broken the tie, when you must have known. And btw, I thought you moved from Abigail, but she still has three, so someone moved onto her too. I would say I need to see who, but all her voters were civ so it doesn't really matter.

Are you lying about seeing my vote in there before you voted?

No I 100% believe I saw you voting before I changed my vote.

Saw me voting, what does that mean exactly? That you saw me in the thread? Yeah, I was in the thread. I came in at 3 minutes prior to the deadline and I was going back and forth about Wilgy and sig. I believe it was 9:58 when I pushed the submit button on my Wilgy vote, though I can't say that with certainty. I just know it was 9:59 when I was trying to bang out a quick post to declare my vote in thread, but I wasn't able to submit that in time.

I saw you voted on the poll itself before I changed my vote.

I've done this myself, "seen" someone vote. I looked at the poll before i voted, and noted the votes. I voted, checked the poll to make sure I voted correctly, and someone had changed their vote.

But anyhow, this exchange says someone here in that convo is not being honest, imo.

You are not getting what I’m saying.

When you push submit, the poll refreshes with all changed votes since the last time your poll was refreshed. So you see the results before and if you haven’t refreshed for five minutes it won’t reflect votes that came in during those five minutes. But when you press refresh it will update activity that happened in that five minutes. So here is what I say happened.

I came on at 3 minutes to deadline. I agonize until I don’t think I can wait anymore and I pull the trigger and submit. My poll refreshes and I immediately note that the votes had already changed and Wilgy had the majority even without me. I wasn’t the tie breaker. I go to post and miss the thread closing by literally seconds.

Now, Brad claims I voted before him because he looked and saw Wilgy was in the lead because of me. How is that possible? If the poll refreshes when you submit, the person who voted first won’t see the vote of the person who voted after you unless you refresh the page again, which I did not. You will only see the votes already cast. Whichever of us voted last would have seen the other’s vote.

Even as I’m typing this it’s so frustrating because it’s not a really relevant poll, all things considered. They were all civs. But the fact is there is a lie on the table. Why, I don’t have any idea. I just know I’m telling the truth.

The only slim possibility I can see where it’s not a lie is that Lime Coke and I submitted at the exact same moment. That is the only way I see.

If I believe SVS to be civ, then I am inclined to think Long Von is as well, which leaves me with Lime Coke and Roxy. Even if I’m wrong about either SVS or Long Con, one of those two is likely their teammate so yeah.

I hate being in final situations.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 6:21 am I apologize for not making an appearance throughout Sunday but DST and a migraine kinda fucked me.

I’m so sorry. I get migraines and they are awful.

SVS, i really need you to put down your bias about me because I’m not bad and looking at the people still in the game I’m inclined to think you aren’t either. If we can’t get on the same page we are screwed here. This is not donor due for the mafia, only the civs and that’s why this is do or die for me. I’m telling you that you are wrong about either Brad or long con, assuming I’m correct about you. I am telling you I am not lying and Brad has already admitted once to lying about this. Step back from your tunnel on me or we are going to lose this game. You’re just dismissing things on tone. It takes more than tone. I’m literally the only person you are trying to make a case for. You need to check your gut now because you won’t get another chance.

@Long Con How are you feeling about SVS right now? Do you still think she's bad?

My tinfoil is Long Con and SVS being evil together. And when I say evil, I mean they are febs and I’ll probably let them get away with it, lol.

That would explain leaving three in, if she is bad and her partner is sussing her. It would be a heck of a risky move though, betting the third civ wouldn’t follow the other two.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:32 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:11 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:32 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:10 am I forgot about Spacedaisy. That's NAGL

This is another jab in the same flavour (flavor for Roxy ) of you mentioning twice that "isn't it weird that LC didn't die?" You don't come out and say "I think Spacedaisy could be a Wolf for these reasons", you make sure to mention something about a player as though hoping someone else would pick it up and run with it.

now THIS is interesting. First of all, it aligns you and me, doesn't it? If you somehow flip wolf, boy do I look bad! The craziest part is that I think michelle was just saying she had forgotten I existed in the game and that isn't a good look. But you jump to it being about you and that it's somehow an indication that you are still alive because you are bad.

That is not what this post says. This wasn't about me or you as much as it was about Michelle, and how she approached suspicion on some players.

The only way it "aligns" me and you is that we're both Town if Michelle flips Wolf.

You were Mafia'ing very late last night, so I don't know if you had gotten tired by this point, but you have either lost the plot on the logic for this one, or you're intentionally doing it to shade me.

Why have you not jumped at me like you did at Michelle? I'm asking the same question you interpreted her to be asking. I'm asking the same questions she did ask in other places. Why are you still alive Long Con? Why Abi instead of you? Why Epi instead of you? It doesn't make sense.

I was in bed by the time you said anything about me. You were doing Lime Coke and Roxy when I shut down.

Why am I alive if I'm generally townread? Maybe because my reads are wrong, and the Wolves want to count on me to get this last misyeet in. Maybe it makes me an easy target to BE the last misyeet, which is exactly what happened in Guitar Mafia (despite an obvious townslip, yes I'm still bitter), maybe because Abi's reads were right and she had to go. I'm not laying down to a misyeet that's based on the fact that I'm still breathing.

That is a fair point. Though I was asking that to you earlier, just maybe not so directly?

I’m struggling with this because I really can’t see why SVS would keep three people in who sussed her. Which makes me think it’s Roxy and Lime Coke. I do have concerns about Lime Coke, based on the fact I feel like he is still lying about the vote and I can’t see why.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:07 pm I am not going to vote for either LC. And that's about all I have to say about that.

If it means I go down since LC is so sure I'm bad, and Daisy and Roxy think his case is the bomb, so be it.

But if you are civ, Long Con, as I think you are, we need to have a talk post game about how we read each other. If you're not, excellent game. I totally believe you're sincere, if misguided.

Linki @Spacedaisy take a look at Brads last day of New Vegas. He was civ there, and had similar thoughts.

Here’s the thing SVS, I know for a fact you are wrong about at least one of them because I’m civ. So that leaves me with Roxy being the only option you are willing to vote outside of me and I am not sold on a Roxy. Why are you?

And why do you think you are still alive?

Also, what do you make of me being in a tie with syn and missing the vote?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:04 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:55 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:54 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:46 am You said I changed my vote already, I didn't change my vote until :59.

You posted at :59, but when I pressed the vote button and it refreshed the votes were already different. I voted first and then tried to post, unsuccessfully. Someone else had moved onto Wilgy before me. But as I point out later in my many posts from tonight your move onto Wilgy is the biggest indicator that you might actually be civ. I just don't understand why you acted as if you didn't know who had broken the tie, when you must have known. And btw, I thought you moved from Abigail, but she still has three, so someone moved onto her too. I would say I need to see who, but all her voters were civ so it doesn't really matter.

Are you lying about seeing my vote in there before you voted?

No I 100% believe I saw you voting before I changed my vote.

My impression of those events were that neither of you saw the others' vote at the time you voted.

But one of us had to have voted first and both of us are saying that once we cast our vote we saw the other had already voted. We can’t both be telling the truth about that unless we both voted at exactly the same moment.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:46 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:16 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:03 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:55 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:53 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:39 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:38 am

Yours or from me?

Well from me but I'm taking your townreads seriously.

Feel free to criticize them if you feel I am wrong

Too busy criticizing myself.

Where did he criticize his own or anyone else's reads? Nowhere that I see.

Like literally this is like... awful.

Literally me saying I'm criticizing myself is me being in my own head talking about how much I suck because of my reads being inconsistent in terms of accuracy over the past month of playing mafia.

It's a mental issue about myself playing mafia.

LOL yeah, when I read that, I thought "pretty sure that stuff happens inside the brain for the most part".

I don’t know why but this only sank in when I read this post.

Lime Coke, I apologize if my saying that exacerbated anything for you on that end. I was just reading and while you think it’s obvious what you meant, it wasn’t to me. Different brains work different ways so I didn’t get it.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:44 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:21 am Long Con, you don't look particularly good. Just saying.

Most of your points against me were a dubious stretch or a misinterpretation. Just saying.

I have some work to do, then I'll go back and review the vote tallies and the top suspects of the people who died.

Because I may be incorrect, but I think that myself, Long Con, and Roxy have all voiced heavy suspicion of SVS. There is no way she could let us all into end game if she is bad and none of those three are. That would be suicide, assuming I'm correct, which I'll double check at some point. If I am, I can't see SVS as wolf.

This is not a bad point about S~V~S.

Also, I have been thinking about Lime Coke and my concern is his moving to Wilgy. If he is bad, it is the same situation as me. Why would a wolf Lime Coke move to Wilgy at last minute? Why call attention to himself when he doesn't need to? I don't know Lime Coke well enough to say whether or not wolf Lime Coke would do that. I just know for myself, I never would. I can't see the benefit for him to do it and that makes me pause about my assessment of Lime Coke.

Heh, fun that the two sketchy-voters on the Day 1 yeet are in the Final 5. We talked about why a Wolf would or wouldn't last-second vote/move like you and Lime did back on Day 2, and I think it got bogged down in WIFOM. Hindsight shows that there's nothing at all wrong with a vote-move like that, because you both outlasted most others, with relative ease. I wonder if the vote was actually part of the reason? Especially with all three Day 1 vote trains now turned up Town, there's no reason why a Wolf would need to avoid a move like that.

Agreed here. But I would’ve bussed a partner and tried to deep wolf it. Regardless, I don’t think I can put much stock in Lime Coke’s move as a civ move. I don’t get what he’s been saying about the vote because I know for a fact after I voted I saw I wasn’t the tie breaker. There are only two options, if we voted at the exact same moment or he’s lying.