The Syndicate

Why you got shoot the players I wanted to protect the NIGHT AFTER I protected them? [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] @Nutella @MacDougall

Why you got shoot the players I wanted to protect the NIGHT AFTER I protected them? [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] @Nutella

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 9:01 pm Think this is the first game I’ve played in a while where my immediate thought wasnt “i hate mafia why do i even play this game anymore”

Why would you even think that?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 8:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 4:45 pm Half of our game here was linking ourselves to the wrong people on purpose. At the end of Day 5 when people were tacking RDW with nutella and I, I was just like excellent, my pretties

Why?

When RDW dies, Nutella looks better.

When Nutella does, RDW is set up for a mislynch.

@bold how?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 8:42 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 8:31 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 8:23 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 4:11 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:05 pm N1: Jay is jked and there’s no kill
D6: Jay is not being lynched for some reason.

Gg mafia. You earned it.

He was also doctor protected, but yeah, I should have revisited it. Wasn't there also a roleblocker in the game somewhere, but they didn't claim, or I don't remember them claiming. oops

Jailkeeper would have protected him regardless.

My point is if the mafia tried to kill Jay N1, why did they not try to kill him on the following 4 nights?

Because they didn’t try to kill him N1 either.

Mafia would have thought that Jay was being protected again. It makes sense and that's usually the case. Besides, mafia rarely attack the same player they had a failed kill on for a second time.

There’s no N5 doctor in the setup and the N1/N3 doctor claimed.

So you block or jk or kill Owner and kill Jay N3. Or you kill Jay N5.

There’s also a decent chance the mafia has the N2/N4 doctor or that the N2/N4 doctor is dead or just not itg.

And even if they can’t spare those blocks and kills on those specific nights, the mafia has to risk doctor protection to eliminate confirmed or dangerous town in just about every game.

A player that is doctored on a night with no kill is a massive liability and that player being alive on D6 is a massive red flag from a mechanical perspective.

Oh, that makes sense then. Only works for this kinda setup though.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 4:45 pm Half of our game here was linking ourselves to the wrong people on purpose. At the end of Day 5 when people were tacking RDW with nutella and I, I was just like excellent, my pretties

Why?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 8:23 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 4:11 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:05 pm N1: Jay is jked and there’s no kill
D6: Jay is not being lynched for some reason.

Gg mafia. You earned it.

He was also doctor protected, but yeah, I should have revisited it. Wasn't there also a roleblocker in the game somewhere, but they didn't claim, or I don't remember them claiming. oops

Jailkeeper would have protected him regardless.

My point is if the mafia tried to kill Jay N1, why did they not try to kill him on the following 4 nights?

Because they didn’t try to kill him N1 either.

Mafia would have thought that Jay was being protected again. It makes sense and that's usually the case. Besides, mafia rarely attack the same player they had a failed kill on for a second time.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:45 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:38 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:01 pm Y'all are raising good points about the composition of an ideal civilian. I have a five-pronged image now:

1) Make good reads / have good instincts (the dunyas and Macs)

2) Pursue those reads in such a manner that others will be compelled to follow (the Jays and Goldens)

3) Avoid the noose (the Epis)

4) Promote a thread climate conducive to effective hunting (the Slooneis and MPs)

5) Know when to play the role of the follower (numerous)

Sounds impossible.

I do all those things all the time.

Then why are you only shown as an example for one of the numbers but not all?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:01 pm Y'all are raising good points about the composition of an ideal civilian. I have a five-pronged image now:

1) Make good reads / have good instincts (the dunyas and Macs)

2) Pursue those reads in such a manner that others will be compelled to follow (the Jays and Goldens)

3) Avoid the noose (the Epis)

4) Promote a thread climate conducive to effective hunting (the Slooneis and MPs)

5) Know when to play the role of the follower (numerous)

Sounds impossible.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:12 pm I love being a vigilante. Such power. In the absence of a better idea I usually just shoot a lurker. It can be a great weapon though to use against someone who is good at getting out of lynches. I'm glad DDL wasn't a vigilante.

My kind of man.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:49 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

Ok learn this one thing.

You suck at scumhunting.

I suck at scumhunting.

Everyone sucks at scumhunting.

This thing is not exact science. If it was no one would play mafia because it would be boring. All tells stop working the moment someone points them out, because mafia can adapt. WIFOM is everywhere. All methods are fallible.

The best town players don't make a 100% win chance, they just barely push it above 50%.

That doesn't mean you can never trust your instincts, but if winning as a team is hard, winning alone is nearly impossible. You will get some reads wrong every game, and you need other townies to help you find the right direction. Damn, people are praising me now and I voted for a townie last night.

So you need to learn to doubt yourself. Your instincts could be right, but they could be wrong. Learn to be aware of that at all times. Listen to other people. They may be onto something you're not. That doesn't mean you need to lose your initiative, but you need to learn to control it. Don't be a sheep, but don't be a blind wolf either.

Thank you. I'll put this in my mind in a safe box.

Just one thing I want to argue though. Town can adapt as well, or just become better than they did last DP. If mafia is going to adapt to make sure that they will change their play and remove the tells that were pointed out at first, then a townie can notice such awareness by the player and the desire to be a core town. I don't believe a townie should care(for the most part) about their scum tells and scumminess as long as they're still scum hunting and trying to game solve.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:46 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm I felt bad getting lynched D1 especially because I didn't give it my best effort - I could have saved my own ass but I wasn't in a great mood that day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing scum for me is very exhausting but also very rewarding so my performance really depends on my mindset.

But at least my interactions were obscure enough to lead to a couple of mislynches.

Continue to play with us! I look forward to seeing the civilian side of Ultra, for one thing.

It's a great side. He singlehandedly almost carried town to victory. Only thing that stopped one was getting day killed D2.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

Believe it or not, what you saw in this game was about 60-70% of what you'd see from me in my civilian body. I feel that I have one of the most difficult civilian metas to match on the entire Internet, and for that reason I often don't even try -- I do enough to stay alive.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

This is where meta reading is handy. To an unfamiliar observer, he looks like the town leader. To folks who've played with him before, his play was shortsighted and erratic. He ignored things he wouldn't ordinarily ignore and focused on things he would not normally care about.

Pretty interesting. I'm definitely gonna play more games on this site.

You should. In my first year here I lost 7 consecutive games as town.

That was when I realized being good at NF means shit and I had to work harder to improve.

Damn, and I thought NF was a good place to improve.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 pm Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

That's definitely not the mistake you made.

The mistake you made was being overconfident on your baddie reads.

Lol, can't help it. Just what happens when I have a super strong scum read on someone and I haven't been convinced otherwise.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:27 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:11 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

A civilian who's able to not get lynched is doing something right. And this is your first game in a new environment. You don't know the site-wide meta, or any individual player metas. What matters is that you, as a civilian, put your earnest thoughts into the thread and make a sincere effort to figure things out. I don't think anyone can fault you for not pegging a mafia team comprised of 4 strangers.

I disagree. A civilian that's only being town read for shit play is doing something wrong. I mean yeah, lack of meta knowledge affects my reads but only to some extent. I can still scum read players for what's in the their posts and stuff that isn't really related to meta. I doubt every scum read on the true scum players had to deal with meta. Ain't nobody knew Ultra's meta except Novas and I to some extent and see how he ended up. On the chopping block D1 lol(though, I guess a bus enforced that).

The most important thing about civilians in my book is that they need to function as a team. No individual player is ever going to solve the game on their own. That is literally impossible. It requires a full team effort, and part of that effort always involves townies who are able to show themselves to be town while working through their thoughts in the thread with other people. You did all of those things. The accuracy of reads in any given game is always going to be the key variable. Getting them wrong on one occasion doesn't mean poor play.

BUT if you do feel you didn't play your best game, I look forward to seeing what it looks like when you do feel you're at your best.

Wouldn't really say it's impossible as it's pretty much been done before from a game I played in but, yeah it's hard for a single civ to carry town.

Alright then, thank you. Thanks to all of you who came to my play's defense(though I still don't agree fully).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

Believe it or not, what you saw in this game was about 60-70% of what you'd see from me in my civilian body. I feel that I have one of the most difficult civilian metas to match on the entire Internet, and for that reason I often don't even try -- I do enough to stay alive.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

This is where meta reading is handy. To an unfamiliar observer, he looks like the town leader. To folks who've played with him before, his play was shortsighted and erratic. He ignored things he wouldn't ordinarily ignore and focused on things he would not normally care about.

Pretty interesting. I'm definitely gonna play more games on this site.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:11 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

A civilian who's able to not get lynched is doing something right. And this is your first game in a new environment. You don't know the site-wide meta, or any individual player metas. What matters is that you, as a civilian, put your earnest thoughts into the thread and make a sincere effort to figure things out. I don't think anyone can fault you for not pegging a mafia team comprised of 4 strangers.

I disagree. A civilian that's only being town read for shit play is doing something wrong. I mean yeah, lack of meta knowledge affects my reads but only to some extent. I can still scum read players for what's in the their posts and stuff that isn't really related to meta. I doubt every scum read on the true scum players had to deal with meta. Ain't nobody knew Ultra's meta except Novas and I to some extent and see how he ended up. On the chopping block D1 lol(though, I guess a bus enforced that).

I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

They really did bus each other.

It's currently 4 v 3. Lylo situation. Purely from my perspective. I am town, JJJ is town, Mac is town. There is undoubtedly a scum in this list here, whether it be your perspective or mine. Wilgy, Nutella, Owner, and Rdw. Owner and Rdw are lock scums in my eyes which leaves Wilgy and Nutella, hmm...

Owner, Rdw, DrWilgy. Which will y'all like to lynch? I very much would prefer Owner as she is my strongest scum read and her posts last DP lacked a firm approach. Actually , her approach the entire game was just meh, wishy washy and lacked surety in herself. She really doesn't wanna get her hands dirty.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 2:43 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 2:31 pm Makes sense for drago to protect a relative townfirm

I at least appreciate that he'd protect the guy he'd previously been hounding, from the standpoint of a hero's gradual progression to greater wisdom.

It's a small thing. I award 2 points.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 8:14 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 7:23 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:42 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:18 am I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Clearly Owner is still your preference. Where does speedchuck stand today?

Teammates with Owner.

Gun to your head, who fills the third mafioso slot alongside those two?

Rdw.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:42 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:18 am I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Clearly Owner is still your preference. Where does speedchuck stand today?

Teammates with Owner.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:23 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:21 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:20 pm Dragomir, thoughts on DrWilgy, go

He's aight.

In what way? What do you like?

Don't really like anything, neither do I hate anything.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:20 pm @Dragomir, thoughts on DrWilgy, go

He's aight.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:27 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:16 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:02 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:52 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 pm I feel that was an unwise decision. Based on your behavior day 2, why didn't you check dragomir?

Why would Dragomir have been a wise decision?

Precedent was set in ddl's suspicion with dragomir that wouldve warranted the check, not Jack.

Breadcrumbs are important and there should be an honest effort to lay them so that your information and thinking isn't lost. The lack of this and DDL's "irony" as he called it makes his claim the equivalent of poo.

Someone tell me this is a real opinion. ^

Don't know why I'd waste a check on someone I feel like I could read.

I used to think like that.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 10:03 am So @DrWilgy what do you think about my case on Owner?

[mention]DrWilgy[/mention]

So @DrWilgy what do you think about my case on Owner?

I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:56 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:47 pm
This reeks of chainsaw defense.

Let's say for a moment I don't know what a chainsaw defense is. (or don't know it by that name)

Should I

A. Google it
B. Phone a friend (aka I'm asking for a friend)
C. Wait and see if someone is willing to give the cliff notes version of it all so that I can accurately understand what he's saying about these two people

Only interaction she had with Ultra which I have no idea what this post even means or how it progresses the game.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:43 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 9:18 pm [VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Hello human. I am Wilgy. May I bite your wrist?

Can you explain your vote?

Hi. I've been sussing Owner ever since D1 which has progressively been getting stronger and stronger. From joining Ultra(mafia) in lynching JJJ in which both of their cases weren't even that strong and looked fake. To what looked like TMI on Gemma after her lynch was made(to make it even worse, she completely ignored my questioning her about it). And lastly, going for a super low hanging fruit in Jessie last DP, completely avoiding discussing Speedchuck and RDW who were both leading wagons at one point. She also has zero interactions with Ultra.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 7:52 pm I tried Jailkeeping JJJ last night. It did not stop any kills one way or another.

Also Jailkept Drago on N2. Hope that didn't break anything.

I protected Novas N2. Speed, you said that Owner is playing like how you expect him to play as town. Have you played with him before because she's new to the forum

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:46 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:43 pm I'm not interested in seeing them from a different perspective when said perspective is not any of their posts.

New question: even if you don't see alternative perspectives for your suspects, do you understand why other players may find it suspicious that your reads have been unmoving all game long?

No.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:06 pm Dragomir, what is the single worst thing about RDW in this game?

How he first voted me in the game. Not an OMGUS reason here as it may look like.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:04 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pm @Dragomir, just a basic question:

In the absence of the DDL green peek, would your reads right now be different at all from what they were on Day 1?

Absolutely not.

Would you say this kind of mindset is commonplace for you in Mafia games?

Yep.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:04 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:40 pm You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

TMI my ass. I had pinged 2 players as hard towns on perfectly logical reasons. You guys might do some bad things but one must have to ignore a great deal of things that proves you being town to say that you're scum and I find that asinine.

I don't think you've been "illogical". I also don't think that's the full extent of the conversation -- indeed, I have long believed that fiercely "logical" play is as much the mark of the mafioso as the civilian, and for some people moreso. Do you have any kind of feelings underlying your reads?

I don't understand your question.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:04 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pmThe salad means nothing. That shit is only bad if the player just suggest a bunch of ppl but then does nothing to push on them later on or has done nothing to push on them in past. The player is being passive and sheepish. That makes a salad really bad imo. If a player has been pushing for their salad players all game or at least tried to make cases on them, a salad is not scummy.

I've seen it come from bad guys too many times to discard it as readily as you are asking me to discard it. It may not be a case that you can answer to beyond defaults, so I will leave it there. This tell is something unique to The Syndicate.

Well then, I can't do anything about it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:04 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pmWhy is this a bad thing and why should my reads have changed? Literally all the players in my scum reads have done absolutely nothing to convince to me that they're town. Not a single post of theirs is even town to me so why in bloody name's should my read change? The only that made me change my read on DDL was a cop invest. Like hell, how they interacted with Ultra hardly helps their(my scum reads) case if it does at all. I even ended up with a stronger scum read on Owner and DDL based off how Ultra's flip.

These reasonings against me are ludicrous.

The highlighted portion can be questioned. I don't know that I have seen you make much of an effort to see your suspects from a different perspective, or to consider alternative explanations -- at least not until your hand was forced.

I'm not interested in seeing them from a different perspective when said perspective is not any of their posts.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:58 pmI disagree

I disagree harder.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:52 pm Dragomir has been the most suspicious person since then and has somehow avoided lynching and the tide keeps turning away from him. I wonder why. Can we lynch him now please.

Because I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pm @Dragomir, just a basic question:

In the absence of the DDL green peek, would your reads right now be different at all from what they were on Day 1?

Absolutely not.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:40 pm You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

TMI my ass. I had pinged 2 players as hard towns on perfectly logical reasons. You guys might do some bad things but one must have to ignore a great deal of things that proves you being town to say that you're scum and I find that asinine.

The salad means nothing. That shit is only bad if the player just suggest a bunch of ppl but then does nothing to push on them later on or has done nothing to push on them in past. The player is being passive and sheepish. That makes a salad really bad imo. If a player has been pushing for their salad players all game or at least tried to make cases on them, a salad is not scummy.

Why is this a bad thing and why should my reads have changed? Literally all the players in my scum reads have done absolutely nothing to convince to me that they're town. Not a single post of theirs is even town to me so why in bloody name's should my read change? The only that made me change my read on DDL was a cop invest. Like hell, how they interacted with Ultra hardly helps their(my scum reads) case if it does at all. I even ended up with a stronger scum read on Owner and DDL based off how Ultra's flip.

These reasonings against me are ludicrous.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:21 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:15 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:47 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:40 pm Rdw's vote on me reeks of an attempt to save himself.

You think a townie wouldn't attempt to save himself?

They might, sure, but doing something like that is something I more expect a wolf to do as there's more reason for why they'd do that than a townie.

Also, I think a townie is more likely to not care or try to save themselves instead just give up.

That's kind of redundant/not really a reason lol. You don't think a townie cares for self preservation when the game depends on the numbers?

No, not really.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:53 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:40 pm Owner voting Jessie makes me hesitant on his lynch. Looks like an attempt to save RDW. Rdw's vote on me reeks of an attempt to save himself. I think there's one mafia in his wagon, and one mafia in my wagon. If I had to guess, it'd be Rdw and Owner.

Both players have had zero interactions with each other and I don't believe Owner has talked about Rdw at all, not even in her recant post. I'ma iso Owner's posts to see if I'm right.

I believe that when RDW voted for you, speedchuck had the most votes. Can that be purely about saving himself?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:47 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:40 pm Rdw's vote on me reeks of an attempt to save himself.

You think a townie wouldn't attempt to save himself?

They might, sure, but doing something like that is something I more expect a wolf to do as there's more reason for why they'd do that than a townie.

Also, I think a townie is more likely to not care or try to save themselves instead just give up.

Owner voting Jessie makes me hesitant on his lynch. Looks like an attempt to save RDW. Rdw's vote on me reeks of an attempt to save himself. I think there's one mafia in his wagon, and one mafia in my wagon. If I had to guess, it'd be Rdw and Owner.

Both players have had zero interactions with each other and I don't believe Owner has talked about Rdw at all, not even in her recant post. I'ma iso Owner's posts to see if I'm right.

Sup.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:49 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:19 am Dragon D. Luffy, a sentence or two summary of your faith in Dragomir would be swell.

It's much, much easier to see his posts from the lens of a civ who just thinks he is the shit than from an evil person trying to act like a civ.

You'd think after the fifth time we called him out of his crap, he'd have backed down.

Maybe he is a baddie who is commited to the extreme to double down on everything he says and never show weakness, but I think that's a little hard, psychologically, when your goal is to survive, not to be right.

I still don't think what you guys have called me out for are as reasonable as you may believe.