The Syndicate

I think I'm going to take a break. I'll try to return for EoD but it's now later here (11pm) since DST and I'm an old man who sometimes drifts off.

Neither emotional outbursts at EoD nor colourful charts are ever going to make me TR someone.

But I'm still not sure how I feel about a sprityo lynch. There's no particular reason for it beyond overall play not being enough to convince me not to.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:40 pm i mean

if you read epis entry on me d1

it looked like... town moments but with strong pause

I don't think he treated me like that sod

I think he was acting like my nolynch vote was some kind of smoking gun people should even consider policy lynching me for

I still hated the push to the point where if he's town I'm considering killing him for taking such a bad direction to start d3

I was considering doing a similar scumread list, and that was already in mind for Epi, that he thought your no vote was enough to build a case in the uncertainty of these mechanics.

Let me try this a different way, since I'm finding it too easy to townread peeps.

My best reason for TRing...
...iaafr is because doublevoter + I had some 'pre-warning' of his style from spec chat, so everything I see fits perfectly
...Evenstar is because of Spiny's Mason flip and associated post
...Epi is because his push on iaafr today felt so pure and bold and I don't know why scum target Rabbit to powerwolf out if that's their plan today
...Pawn is because I vibe with his posts a lot
...Dom is because his aggression didn't seem faked or forced and there were nuggets of opinions hidden within
...Jack is because I see no attempt at manipulating events and shows no concern about scumreads against him or bothers engaging with them to explain why they're wrong
...Sprityo is because he's had one or two surprisingly insightful reads about mechanics (e.g. about who might have submitted the NK or something; I forget, but I liked it)
...Colin is because there's nothing inherently scummy I can see in his few posts


That was...insightful. I think Jack is higher than I realised, Epi a little weaker than I had in mind, and my bottom three is {Colin, Sprit, Pawn} but that's even without Eva's case on pawn.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:24 pm 1. nothing wrong with me
2. nothing wrong with me
3. nothing wrong with me
4. nothing wrong with me

This is just your defense against the Syndicaters...

Anyway, before that heartattack Rabbit gave me, I was ISOing Colin.

What did I see in him before? There's nothing there. (Oh wait, that's what I saw before, I just didn't SR it.) There's nothing about his posts that can't be faked. In fact, you wouldn't even have to fake very hard.

So Colin can slip into my bottom 3. Now I just need one more.

112
Mac
Michelle
LLD
...someone else

Benson
Nutella
Juliets
Hyena
TonyStarkPrime
...I'm already struggling

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:15 pm reads off reads off

post the reads you had d1 and d2, both of you

I don't even remember who's in this game.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:05 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:54 pm Actually, revised opinion of Jack - if he's a wolf, he's content to slank by, confident we won't end up on him. That world exists too still. But he's not at all trying to manipulate events in the way.

LeoStare.jpg

I know you’re saying this like “so Jack is probably town” but I still object to a characterization of me as “slanking” and “not trying to manipulate events” by someone with half my post and seemingly no scumreads.

I had more reads in D1 and D2 than you ever did.

I re-read the post. It doesn't look faked. Or rather, I think it would be faked differently if so.

I'm okay now.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:05 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:04 pm Jfc I just finally closed the Word doc I had all my scum!Eva notes typed up in.

wait what

From earlier. I was building a case. Your read convinced me to leave it alone and I finally let it go.

Now you tell me you don't even know if that post is accurate?

I hate clutter on my computer and it needed to go and I was just going to follow your lead on that

Jfc I just finally closed the Word doc I had all my scum!Eva notes typed up in.

Rabbit, I assumed you knew the post.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:11 pm I mean, ngl, I can't even be confident that the spiny flip that Eva posted was accurate, she could've forged it

Wait what

Actually, revised opinion of Jack - if he's a wolf, he's content to slank by, confident we won't end up on him. That world exists too still. But he's not at all trying to manipulate events in the way.

In focusing on previous scumreads I'm finding reasons to townread instead. The only person I'm leaning definitely on the scum side right now is sprityo.

You're so null it bothers me. Dom has moved up in my books.

I think I need to reconsider Colin now. And Epi needs a reread too.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:38 pm So who’re your three atm?

I’m seeing a lot of townreads on consensus suspects or your former suspects in your iso.

I'm finding lots of reasons to townread people. That's half the battle!

Okay, so, this may end up jumbled, but,

Regarding the accusations thrown at Pawn, I felt he fended them off well. He clearly has had reasons for all he's said and done this game, which doesn't surprise me given his well-reasoned posts throughout this round and the last. That said, I don't think any of that clears him per se. That seems to be the sort of player he is regardless of alignment.

One thing that made me feel a bit better about Pawn was when I earleir suggested he was a deepwolf and he immediately understood why I thought it. He explained to me what was in my head, which suggests very strongly (and he has said as much) that he has come across these sort of tinfoil thoughts before. Clearly my worries about him are ones other players in other games have had.

So in the end, I think I'm back to where I was with Pawn in the first place - not considering him for a lynch, but with lingering doubts.


As for Evenstar, whilst it's certainly not out of her scum range to do something like this, it does make me feel a bit better about her to see the fangs come out. One of my concerns with her behaviour lately has been how much she's been sitting back rather than pushing. I do think she 'piled on' a bit with illegitimate evidence, and I think she has backed down fairly quickly, but overall I think it's a good look for her.


So basically it feels more v/v to me than v/w. I certainly don't think it's w/w - there's no need for scum!Eva to do that to scum!Pawn considering the positions they were in.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:19 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:15 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:14 pm Also I want to know where @ColinIsCool and @Master Radishes are at since I’ve barely talked to you today.

Was at work. Now making dinner. Have finished reading up on Pawn and Eva's...spat. Formulating thoughts.

AMA.

Those are exactly the thoughts I’m looking for.

Would also like some thoughts on the Rabbit/Dom/Me exchanges from last night.

I'll trade you my thoughts for your thoughts.


As for you/Dom/Rabbit, I'll need to reread later. Dinner first.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:14 pm Also I want to know where @ColinIsCool and @Master Radishes are at since I’ve barely talked to you today.

Was at work. Now making dinner. Have finished reading up on Pawn and Eva's...spat. Formulating thoughts.

AMA.

Looks like I've got some reading to do on my way home from work.

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:59 am 1) stop. I am in absolute awe that y'all find me to be the most abraisive and dickish person on this site and that I deserve to be put to death for it. And it's all over mild interrogation. Y'all would have probably peed yourself if you saw A World Apart, Star Wars, or ye olde games of yesteryear. This is absolutely nothing. I honestly struggle to think of a single post I made that was too far. I really do. But I do not struggle to find a single post where y'all don't go way out of line with me. @speedchuck , add it to the list, I guess.

The 'dickish' comment was a joke based on earlier comments.

But you've been abrasive to iaafr, so I don't know why you take issue with that. I'm stating a fact, not saying you're scum for doing it. Stop playing the victim and let's talk about sprityo or whoever else you want.

Or LLD...

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:50 am

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:34 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 am but i mean yeah your logics a bit weird

wouldnt keeping him alive to keep sussing the towncore sow suspicion on its own?

why would scum assume people would even remember nooks reads

Yes, but Nook was relatively low impact in the thread so he probably wouldn't make much progress and might even be convinced to change his mind. Better to go for the guarantee rather than a gamble.

Because it's good town play to look back at those who died to try and divine the intent as to why they died. Since there is always a discernible reason behind a scum nightkill. The trick is actually figuring it out. Plus remembering the reads of one of 14 other players is far easier than that of 29 other players. Especially since scum could potentially just point it out themselves in thread as a reason why Nook could have been a silencing kill. So there's a fair chance that town would easily remember the reads or scum would just state it themselves.

I'm basically assuming that Epi is scum based off this as I read into the kill more and more. If I'm right this is a kill that came at it from a methodical view, which fits my mental image of Epi's style and even is something he has stated in previous days.

What if someone not in the current thread decided the kill? As in nook was killed in relation to someone else?

... That's a decent point actually. If the Mafia don't know who ascends or descends levels either, someone like 112 or Mac might have chosen the kill for other reasons.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:15 am I can assure you radish that provoking dom was not on my list of things i wanted to do.

Begs the question then, what's on the list?

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:31 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:00 am can you quote the strongest bits of insight from epi

@Master Radishes

would like to wake up to a mention with this, please and thank you

gn

I've seen it and will do it in x hours. Not doing it on phone, so I'll wait till I get home tonight.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:38 am radishes any notably updated thoughts on dom, jack, sprityo, and epi's most recent posting

Not sure how notable.

Dom - abrasive, tunnely, dare I say dickish...but I'm beginning to spot actual consideration in his posts. He reads more to me as a townie entering late and trying to make a mark than a wolf with an agenda.

Jack - idfk, I switch my read constantly. He had a moment in D1 I liked, a vote I didn't, general play D2 I didn't, and general play today I do.

Sprityo - I like his posts when I read for the first time. I did an ISO yesterday for interaction with Dom and actually liked his posts less. They felt too calculated in how he handled Dom, like he was pretending to take the high road buy actually wanted to keep provoking. Haven't ISOed recent posts.

Epi - I like the more I see. Insightful. Possible deepwolf but do not forsee voting there today.

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:29 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:25 amyou tell me man

Was making a joke about myself having a naturally scummy mindset. Thought I had implied it well enough with how I had worded it. Need to work more on textual comedy then.

I got it. Just switched to phone as I commute so only got to responding now.

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:17 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:11 am I'm never anyone's stongest town or scum read, and am constantly in the mushy middle or included in a bottom 3 as an extra. I think I just clocked why: I'm the wildcard. Pawn/Eva/Rabbit all know each other, and the Syndicaters all know each other, and none of you have ever played with me. It was basically the same last round, with only 112 who knew me.

Normally I'm good at clearing myself within a couple phases but my game is 95% re-reading votes, wagons, interactions, etc. I can't clear myself, and no one has any meta on me. So I get mild sus for posts you find mildly sussy because you're naturally misreading me as you get to know me.

I actually feel better now that I've realised this.

And I assume that you're thinking that it's essentially cliques forming up that is causing some of the lashing out, as a add-on of a natural distrust borne on by the type of game?

And yeah, this style of game fucks with a lot of more analytical playstyles by a fair margin. I've been trying to adapt by playing a bit more of a gut read game. And while I think my reads are solid, it's fascinating how this dichotomy has the group of players who know my playstyle already swapping between town coring me and calling me out as double pocketing.

I wouldn't say the familiarity divide is causing the fights, but it's a factor, definitely. Also now that the Syndicates are posting more frequently it's helping bridge some of it, for me at least.

I'm never anyone's stongest town or scum read, and am constantly in the mushy middle or included in a bottom 3 as an extra. I think I just clocked why: I'm the wildcard. Pawn/Eva/Rabbit all know each other, and the Syndicaters all know each other, and none of you have ever played with me. It was basically the same last round, with only 112 who knew me.

Normally I'm good at clearing myself within a couple phases but my game is 95% re-reading votes, wagons, interactions, etc. I can't clear myself, and no one has any meta on me. So I get mild sus for posts you find mildly sussy because you're naturally misreading me as you get to know me.

I actually feel better now that I've realised this.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:49 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:46 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:45 am {dom epig radishes} still works i guess if we're going for scum who dont like to shade partners much

I just read four or five pages of posts with you constantly putting me in your bottom three, and I must have missed why?

i still sussed you n1 while i reread the thread and reread your d1 iso and i didnt like your push on evenstar d2. maybe i overstated the godfather logic, but overall your eod analysis still felt like an agendaed way to push a town player in my eyes.

from d1 in particular, i didnt remember much of a progression on dragomir leading up to the vote, and i remember that bothering me. i remember some other stuff bothering me about your d1 too, but i dont remember what now

i remember you responding to that in d2 with some logic of why you didnt want to vote 112, but idk its not a defense i could ever clear you on

if im to townread jack i have to believe he has to be right at least one thing this day, and its going to be either you or pawn and now im trying to evaluate which i can fit better

Thank you. Much more comprehensive than I was expecting.

D1 ISO - sure, I mean, it's D1, what do you expect? Lots of townies look bad on D1 in retrospect.
Drago - I hadn't read Drago at all; of the 30 players he was not someone I focused on, so I went by who I liked on each wagon and on my meta of 112
EoD analysis - if you want to see it that way there's not much I can do about it, but the agenda was 'look for scum votes' and I maintain I found some
D2 Eva - honestly, if she is town as you purportedly clear her to be, I have notes for her after the game
The Jack point is silly but I see you've already recognised that

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:45 am {dom epig radishes} still works i guess if we're going for scum who dont like to shade partners much

I just read four or five pages of posts with you constantly putting me in your bottom three, and I must have missed why?

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:53 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:38 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:33 am whats reason for your unaligned read on pawn/radishes

i know mine and idk whether to trust it

Jackofhearts2005

this question was for you

you mentioned you think pawn tmi'd radishes town?

where?

He’s basically copy pasted all his reads from you and Radish.

I may not be about to back this up without going back to D2 but I’m not seeing independent thought from Pawn.

I posted most of my reads before Radish did though? If anyone of us 3 are doing that it's him.

Like, you can argue that a lot of my reads are similar to iaafr's and you'd be right since a fair few people are town core in my mind and there's at least one or more unnamed players who deserves to be at the bottom. So there isn't exactly much wiggle room in terms of reads + placements that would be genuine. Especially once you factor in MR largely agreeing with everything I say, but saying it after.

Uh, excuse me, I must disagree. There were times I agreed with you, yes, but there were also times I said things first. (And also times I disagreed.)

And no, without access to the old thread I don't have specific examples.


I think regardless of alignment we read the game of Mafia in a similar way, so our reads are overlapping.

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:16 am I don't trust eva at all.

Thank you. Me neither.

But the spiny 'clear' post is good enough for me to not put her in my PoE for today, as it's the closest we have to a potential clear. And anyway, I needed to get out of my tunnel and focus on everyone else for a change.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:01 pm radishes... I don't wanna suspect radishes, it feels too easy after they scumread me yesterday, but it's the truth that they have just done less work than many people, and their pushes against epi and iaafr feel awkward, and I personally like them but... something does not feel right.

Wait, what? What pushes on Epi and Iaafr? I barely pushed Epi early D2 and haven't since, and haven't pushed Iaafr at all.

I'm scared to keep catching up now. Am I going to find 6 more pages of Eva not remembering who I am this game?

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:22 pm how deep does the rabbit hole go

Are you...propositioning me?

I wonder how the other levels are doing.

Are we the chattiest? The angriest? The confusedist?

Definitely the sexiest?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:07 pm Dom, would you summarize what you are seeing with Master Radishes when next you get the chance?

He and I discussed it a couple pages back. Let me find it.

Here:

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:11 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:08 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:04 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:39 pm And we agree on radishes. I'd also add he came in late D2 and just seemed so agenda-y.

I was here all D2; I didn't come in late. And my agenda was to formulate a consensus lynchpool to prevent us splitting votes six ways and allowing the mafia to stack the vote behind the scenes.

I didn't say you weren't there earlier.

Oh, I see. I misread the syntax of what you said.

What I mean is that your late day phase posts felt very manipulative.

Yeah, I got that much.

I mean, sure, I guess they were. I felt that the scum were successfully creating a placid environment where they would slip by unnoticed in the uncertainty created by the round's mechanics, and so I was trying to prod and nudge and get a consensus lynchpool so that we could limit their options a bit.

That's certainly not how I read the sitution, and if I ever can, I'd like to reread with this in mind.

But yeah I genuinely want to watch this film again.

I mean, I solved the game earlier and now Pawn and Eva are going to kill me.

BWWOOONNNGGGG

Lmao I love it.

I mean if there is a new layer of 5, the 'rule of three' is a bit useless, isn't it?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:06 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:33 pm
what about radishes?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:35 pm Master Radishes: My fellow academic was not afraid to get saucy with me early on Day 2. After engaging me and having at least a little bit of discussion I feel like I understand his mindset better and I think he understands mine. I felt like it was a productive Day 2 on that front with regard to my view on the Root Maestro. Civilian lock? Hardly. Civilian lock given the circumstances?

I think I neglected to comment on this. But yeah, I'd say the same about you.

[mention]iaafr[/mention] the Syndicaters are going at it. I think your theory might be wrong.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:04 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:39 pm And we agree on radishes. I'd also add he came in late D2 and just seemed so agenda-y.

I was here all D2; I didn't come in late. And my agenda was to formulate a consensus lynchpool to prevent us splitting votes six ways and allowing the mafia to stack the vote behind the scenes.

I didn't say you weren't there earlier.

Oh, I see. I misread the syntax of what you said.

What I mean is that your late day phase posts felt very manipulative.

Yeah, I got that much.

I mean, sure, I guess they were. I felt that the scum were successfully creating a placid environment where they would slip by unnoticed in the uncertainty created by the round's mechanics, and so I was trying to prod and nudge and get a consensus lynchpool so that we could limit their options a bit.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:39 pm And we agree on radishes. I'd also add he came in late D2 and just seemed so agenda-y.

I was here all D2; I didn't come in late. And my agenda was to formulate a consensus lynchpool to prevent us splitting votes six ways and allowing the mafia to stack the vote behind the scenes.

I didn't say you weren't there earlier.

Oh, I see. I misread the syntax of what you said.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:57 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:32 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:26 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:21 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:13 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:58 pm

Lol, I can never escape those claims about me. And sure, I'm open to answering questions.

Give me your spiciest take, something that you think has at least one toe within the realm of possiblity.

You're pocketing me + iaafr.

Pfft, you call that spice.

Hey, you're the one who said within the realm of possibility. Otherwise I would have said it was a scum team of iaafr, ES, and myself on this level, with our goal being to powerwolf it, with me and iaafr intentionally drawing attention for scum ES to go deep.

Except I'm not scum and both are TRs so it's not possible sadly.

You want spice? Here's some spice.

*It was very convenient that iaafr remembered Spiny's psot
*It was very convenient that Evenstar had saved said post
*It is very odd that Nook was chosen as the 'kill' and points mainly at Evenstar/you
*You just openwolfed and confirmed it all

Now that's some muthafuckin spice.

I'm not sure I follow this.

It was a tinfoil theory. I'm not seriously advocating for it. I asked him for a spicy take, he gave one, I poo-pooed the mild spice of it and gave him a spicier one.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:39 pm And we agree on radishes. I'd also add he came in late D2 and just seemed so agenda-y.

I was here all D2; I didn't come in late. And my agenda was to formulate a consensus lynchpool to prevent us splitting votes six ways and allowing the mafia to stack the vote behind the scenes.