The Syndicate

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:18 pm Dizzy very likely town from my PoV due to the roleblock and tightening the PoE

Dizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:13 pm i also thought that dizzy + michelle team mechanically can make sense, it would explain wilgy getting dizzy's role from michelle (michelle could be the mafia 1-shot protector) and dizzy could be whatever role. dizzy could have manufactured that fake claim for michelle coz its super towny and michelle gets away with it

Michelle's role can be proven.

We assume Michelle is town and select an exe based on that. Then we vote Michelle, and if Michelle is mafia she dies. If she's town she redirects the exe to whoever we selected.

Michelle can in theory be scum with Dizzy, she has some other role and they conspired to make it seem like she has a role that a scum would have used long ago. What is our mech on Dizzy?

Strongman, sorry, not ninja. But there was a nokill one night so mafia doesn't have a strongman. So JPIC is only scum if there's two. If Michelle's claim checks out then she can only be scum with Dizzy because I think nook and Sloonei at least would pressure her to use it earlier.

You also don't lose anything by it and you avoid screwing me over after I helped you out. Like if I help you catch the mafia today, you exe them and she doesn't accept then I lost despite heavily townsiding and that would be a dick move.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:58 am @Alison if i accept ur bargain today and we yeet non-bargainee mafia today we all win

so help us find the mafia and i accept ur bargain?

Fine.

Non bargainee mafia we can exe today are michelle, syn, hyena, JPIC.

JPIC only scum if ninja or if there's 2.

Michelle not scum unless the scum team is crazy.

Syn we have no mech on iirc.

I can't remember the mech on Hyena but I think there was some.

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:56 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:54 am

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:52 am Kyle's the one who's doing the bargaining for Alison now, correct? And he's also responsible for Tutuu being off the polls, right?

Kyle only bargained with Alison once from stealing her role, I think. Alison is the one doing the bargaining.

And yeah, Kyle removed Tutu from the poll today. To be fair, Tutu is green checked.

Oh, so it was only for that one night?

@Alison Can you confirm this? Are you back to directly making bargains with people, or does Kyle permanently have that power now?

Yeah, I choose the bargains now.

I'm gonna be kinda tilted if we no exe, mafia shoots a bargainee and is outed and I lose after carrying the town as 3P.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit mafia, I lose 4/4, unless tutuu accepts my bargain.

If you no exe and mafia kills a bargainee, and they're outed tomorrow like has been planned, I lose 3/4 even if mafia is a non-bargainee.

If you no exe and mafia kills a non bargainee and is outed, I win 4/3 if they're a non bargainee.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit town, and mafia kills a non bargainee, I win 4/3.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit town and mafia kills a bargainee I lose.

So no matter what I should rand my protect between bargainees (probably weighted by how juicy a kill they are for mafia) tonight. If tutuu would kindly accept my bargain, I have more assurance of winning, otherwise my win condition is essentially determined by the actions of other people (if you choose to exe/nightkill bargainees or non bargainees)

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:36 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:30 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:29 amnope, I don't think so

Oh, I thought he was, but I can't keep track. In that case, Alison still makes some sense here. And then it also makes sense HK with a useless power died in front of me and LC.

This argument is bad.

Mafia has strong incentive not to kill off my bargainees because I said I was protecting them. Mafia has strong incentive not to piss me off because there's a decent chance I'll be a kingmaker during F3 if they survive that long. You're also assuming that I'll only target non-bargainees if I inherited the mafia kill (which is not a mechanic I've ever seen on the syndicate btw, and didn't happen in radiohead, shadow corridors where the original Gambit Demon occurred, etc.). If I was a hostile 3P here it would make more sense to kill off investigatives even if they're bargainees, because then the rest of the town has no way to get mech info on each other and will eat themselves until I win anyway.

thats only if ur a hostile 3p with the "last woman standing" wincon

if ur a hostile 3p that said the truth about ur wincon then ur incentivized to kill non-bargainees and win the game today/tomorrow

If I'm a hostile 3P that said the truth about my wincon then I still win if I kill investigative bargainees because town will eat themselves with no mech info I'll win by having Kyle alive at the end of the game. Or even play as "last woman standing" and win with 1 bargainee (myself) to 0. In contrast if I leave investigatives alive just because they're bargainees then they'll mech solve the game and I'll get exed out of paranoia.

If you wanna call it WIFOM go ahead but don't pretend like "HK killed -> Alison is hostile 3P", that makes no sense.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:30 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:29 amnope, I don't think so

Oh, I thought he was, but I can't keep track. In that case, Alison still makes some sense here. And then it also makes sense HK with a useless power died in front of me and LC.

This argument is bad.

Mafia has strong incentive not to kill off my bargainees because I said I was protecting them. Mafia has strong incentive not to piss me off because there's a decent chance I'll be a kingmaker during F3 if they survive that long. You're also assuming that I'll only target non-bargainees if I inherited the mafia kill (which is not a mechanic I've ever seen on the syndicate btw, and didn't happen in radiohead, shadow corridors where the original Gambit Demon occurred, etc.). If I was a hostile 3P here it would make more sense to kill off investigatives even if they're bargainees, because then the rest of the town has no way to get mech info on each other and will eat themselves until I win anyway.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:08 am I'll offer disenfranchisement (wipe someone's vote) to Michelle tonight. Again, no reason for me not to. Just letting you know in advance

it's really up to you obviously but lost restriction would probably be less dangerous in this game state I think :0

Already gave that to Made.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:24 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:19 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:15 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:12 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:11 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:10 am I am extremely upset that Kyle desconsidered the convo we had yday with LC when he said he will not take anyone from the poll. Stealing LCs ability and use it is antitown.
Taking exactly tutuu who was a CFD attempt from HK looks very bad especially after HKs flip.
Why died HK?
Why let mafia Kyle to help town so much? Something is not right

LC said he wasn't going to use it but did it anyway

LC didn't use it, Kyle used it on tutuu today after stealing it

LC claimed he used it on dizzy at the start of the day. obvs we know kyle stole it, but the intent was still there

I see.

My question stays, why is not mafia killing Kyle, who is constantly helping town apparently, and is not protected since forever? Why HK?

presumably because alison is the one making the kills and she is leaving kyle and LC and dizzy alive because they are bargainees to fulfill her wincon and out of the people who aren't bargainees she decided hollowkat was the hardest to mischop

I'm a 3P, I'm not making any kills. I strongly signalled I was protecting bargainees last night and mafia can't afford to miss a kill, plus they know if they kill a bargainee I'll be annoyed at them and townside during F3.

Hm, wait, dizzy's plan doesn't work for me if mafia kill a bargainee

4/5, after night is 3/5, mafia outed, you exe, is 3/4

so there's a chance I lose if we follow this plan

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:15 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:08 am I'll offer disenfranchisement (wipe someone's vote) to Michelle tonight. Again, no reason for me not to. Just letting you know in advance

That means I would be a bad person to not accept.
When should I confirm this?

You'll receive a PM tonight letting you know you've been offered disenfranchisement, you can privately message the host to accept

I'll offer disenfranchisement (wipe someone's vote) to Michelle tonight. Again, no reason for me not to. Just letting you know in advance

Alright, I'm cool. Ping me if there are any issues or questions or changes to the plan.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:00 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:58 am What's the probability of mafia having a ninja or strongman? Or do you have mech info they don't?

No, we don't have that mech info. But I think it sounds highly unlikely they would have a permanent one. In fact, there was no kill one night, so they could not have a permanent strongman. The only that can screw us up there is if it's exactly Syn with exactly a permanent ninja role. Or exactly Tutu with exactly a role that is immune to any investigation what so ever.

Ok, so 4/5, mafia kills, 4/4 tomorrow, then you exe mafia to make it 4/3 and we win at the same time?

What's the probability of mafia having a ninja or strongman? Or do you have mech info they don't?

ok

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:29 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:23 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:21 am Gambit demon is based off on a role from another game, right?
But this is
Does anyone know the GD win con from that game?

Make 7 bargains, or get someone to bargain with you thrice. As mentioned, after LC won with it he just sat around in the thread voting for whoever he wanted for fun.

How come he didn't leave the game when he won?

Host preference I guess. But this is also why I say it would be out of flavor for GD to be hostile or to kill all its bargainees, it was a true neutral role that game and afaict every other role has been the same alignment as the original

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:21 am Gambit demon is based off on a role from another game, right?

Does anyone know the GD win con from that game?

Make 7 bargains, or get someone to bargain with you thrice. As mentioned, after LC won with it he just sat around in the thread voting for whoever he wanted for fun.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:12 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:00 am Anyway I don't want to be exed. I'm benign 3P and I've given you all power I wouldn't have if I was hostile. I could have done stuff like claimed I don't count as a bargainee in order to mislead you about when I'd fulfil my win condition, and I didn't do so. I got a doctor ability and have been using it to shield confirmed town. "Everyone is so town let's just whack someone we know isn't mafia" is how towns eat themselves alive after long games and you know that.

Kindly refrain from trying to kill me. I am town's friend. Kill mafia instead.

Who's mafia?

I don't know. I haven't read most of the thread except for skimming this day phase. Nor would you believe me anyway even if I told you who I thought mafia was, since if tutuu rejects my deal then a scum exe loses me the game.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:59 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:55 am I just look for my name and respond to all the posts directly relevant to me and skim over everything else

U also beat my ass in typeracee that one time we played ur like 300 APM clackclackclakcclackclack ive barelly written "henlo" and alison already wrote a 700 word essay on flash wagons and a 800 word essay on gender identity

Im on mobile right now so

Anyway I don't want to be exed. I'm benign 3P and I've given you all power I wouldn't have if I was hostile. I could have done stuff like claimed I don't count as a bargainee in order to mislead you about when I'd fulfil my win condition, and I didn't do so. I got a doctor ability and have been using it to shield confirmed town. "Everyone is so town let's just whack someone we know isn't mafia" is how towns eat themselves alive after long games and you know that.

Kindly refrain from trying to kill me. I am town's friend. Kill mafia instead.

I just look for my name and respond to all the posts directly relevant to me and skim over everything else

[dropshadow=blue[/dropshadow]

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:05 am Wait thats right

Wat did alison do with her doc again?

Protect LC and Kyle

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:03 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:01 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:00 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:56 am There is one reason HK could be killed: Alison is the one we are looking for and HK was not a bargainee.

Why would mafia not kill a tracker or someone they knew had received a pro town power by Alison? This could be the reason me and LC are still alive.

Maybe I'm being dumb again. This game is just really puzzling right now.

Is this insane?

Doc dodge is possible for the HK kill

What doc?

My doc.

Kyle gave me a doctor power and I've been using it to protect bargainees who are town.

Also if it comes down to F3 the mafia probably want to curry favor with me in advance so I side with them.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:59 am

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:58 amliterally handed you guys the solve on a silver platter

I literally answered. I'm also able to think that far. But it doesn't solve the game if Alison is the one we need to care about.

I am not the one you need to care about. Go and find mafia. I am weary of townsiding like crazy and still being suspected out of blind paranoia.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:54 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:52 amI am not sure about this, i think i can use it on her directly because it's not a vote, but idk

I think we should get clarification in this. It's pretty important.

Depends on how michelle's power works. If she switches votes then it won't work, if she directly decides the exe outcome then it will.

8

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:52 am but if that ends up being the case, it fine. i need to make a mistake eventually so i can find out what it feels like

what about when you got caught in christmas mafia because you claimed a mechanically impossible action in an open setup

I gave Dizzy roleblock. Dizzy roleblocked JPIC. A nightkill happened. So JPIC is "green checked".

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:55 am

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:47 am Also, you keep pushing an Alison chop while replying to older posts, even though in those older posts it's pointed out that any Alison chop will just affect Dizzy instead

I just found the post, but the votes from both Dizzy and tutuu are before Alison posted.
This is like a blackmail 'let yourself chopped because we trust Alison and Dizxy will die'
What I don't understand in that post, is Dizzy green checked by Alison? If so, it's so convenient.

Any votes placed on me will be redirected to Dizzy. That's part of my role, and I've said that from my very first post.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:57 pm @Alison if i reject ur offer and we yeet michelle and shes mafia and the game ends do u win or not win?

it would be 8 players after she gets yeeted, 4 of them being u or ppl u've made deals with, and 4 who havent

I need it to exceed, not equal, the people who I haven't bargained with, so I wouldn't win. I'm hoping that doesn't happen but obviously I can't really do anything about it if it does so all I can do is offer you a bargain and hope you accept or that you guys are wrong about michelle.

At any rate I certainly don't object you to sending in an accept early lol

I don't actually know if you can "confirm" your acceptance of a bargain before EOD, since EOD is the deadline to confirm it. There was a host error on N1 where they told me someone (I think LC?) accepted my bargain way earlier than EOD but I'm not sure whether that acceptance is locked in or not or if LC could theoretically have changed his mind. If it's locked in then I probably just win and you guys go on with your day, if it's not locked in then I think they have to wait until EOD in case you change your mind

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:54 pm I'm basically voting alison today no matter what to give out a second track, but I'm worried if tutuu accepts her deal that might jeopardize that

You actually can't do this

I redirect votes to dizzy, so you'd be stealing dizzy's power

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:52 pm @Alison do you stop being able to give powers once you've won

idk, but I don't have any townsided powers left to give anyway. I'm fairly sure your role theft on me will still work.

I don't mean to be pissy with you; it's just that I've been fully cooperative, honest and transparent throughout the game. I fully intend to townside, esp since LC has gone above and beyond in trying to help me fulfil my win con (which would be pretty thematic for gambit demon given how the first one panned out). At any rate, because you accepted my bargain yesterday (and got a green check off it too), any votes made on me will be redirected to you, so yeah, exeing me isn't a great idea here. Someone's still submitting NKs so it isn't a case of "we have to exe the 3P to win" - go find whoever's doing it, exe them, and both town and I win. Everyone's happy.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:27 pm I'm questioning whether yeeting Alison is a good idea.

@Michelle Did you ever role claim btw?

you accepted my bargain last day phase so you'd be yeeting yourself. I've townsided up the ass and done nothing to help scum other than give ted a bargain (who I didnt know was scum). Leave me alone.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:13 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:11 pmDon’t be sorry. I had a sleepless night worrying that i’ll spend most of today defending myself, so that’s a relief

How come you can roleblock?

I accepted Alisons bargain.

But the wording of it was very ominous. I'm seriously expecting all bargainees to die once Alison achieves her wincon or if she is killed... Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but that would be in line with 3p roles here at cindy kate. I've seen some really dangerous ones.

that would be terrible from a setup design perspective. You'd be violating the flavor of the original role and adding a huge amount of swing to the game for no reason

kyle is supposed to steal from me tomorrow, not today. I will offer silencer to tutuu because again, I lose nothing from doing so. but assuming she doesn't accept and there are no unexpected kills then I won't win at EOD tomorrow. in that case kyle will put 1 vote on me tomorrow, steal my power, and strike a bargain with someone else giving whatever power he thinks is most helpful. this allows him to confer useful abilities to whoever he trusts (win for town) while also helping me fulfil my win condition (win for me)

That's the mech/night action plan that pertains to me, and I'm just going to follow it.

I count as a bargainee, yeah

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:44 am @Alison - what did you give Made again?

I gave him the power to restrict people's posts

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:59 am When I was Gambit Demon, I helped you win. You wouldn't be killing us all, would you?

Maybe we should plan for what happens on a mass death Alison win. Who would be left, and would they be able to carry it to a town victory anyway?

I won't, my role can't kill. It would be pretty out of flavor for the Gambit Demon and also add unnecessary swing to the setup where half the game is decided based on the 3P essentially kingmaking. I'm just here to get my free win and peace out.

full disclaimer I'm still going to offer it to tutuu because it costs me nothing to do so.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:30 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:24 am If you're going to argue that Dizzy then you better accept the bargain I gave you because I offered you roleblocker which is pro town. I'm going to offer tutuu silencer tonight regardless. If she doesn't want to accept then I'll have Kyle steal my power and offer something unambiguously townie (eg. protective) to someone unambiguously town. The bargains made by Kyle count towards my win con, so I'll be happy to strike that compromise if you're paranoid.

Do you have a problem with me arguing this from a logical standpoint? Because I think it's pretty logical from a town perspective to be as careful as we can. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to sabotage you.

I was thinking I would accept your offer myself, but I'd really like it if @tutuu didn't. Tutu, I'd rather have a pro-town power in play instead of a useless one. I can accept and you can decline. Does that sound ok?

sure. Then Kyle votes me tomorrow, steals my power and uses it to strike a bargain with someone he trusts in exchange for a pro-town power. I am fine with that compromise.

Kyle can't steal my power today because LC hid me, but he can tomorrow. And Kyle's theft refreshes the role list of what can be offered, so he can choose any power from the list to offer.

If you're going to argue that Dizzy then you better accept the bargain I gave you because I offered you roleblocker which is pro town. I'm going to offer tutuu silencer tonight regardless. If she doesn't want to accept then I'll have Kyle steal my power and offer something unambiguously townie (eg. protective) to someone unambiguously town. The bargains made by Kyle count towards my win con, so I'll be happy to strike that compromise if you're paranoid.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:44 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:42 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:31 am I've protected your tracker and handed out power roles to townies like candy, please cease the fearmongering crap. I just want to collect my win and leave you guys to fighting. I have no reason to or intentions of harming any townies.

Well, yeah, I really do want to believe that. But not sure I can afford to.

if our numbers get low alison could in theory scumside, not out of betrayal but to fulfill her wincon, coz like, lets say last scum is outed, and if we were to yeet them game is over and alison doesnt fulfill her wincon, then she is incentivized to scumside hypthetically

Then help me fulfil my win con early and I'll be out of your hair