The Syndicate

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:07 pm @Alison give me the stealing one

based on this. ping me if you have objections, or want to nominate more people for the pool

current power: ability theft

current pool: [TSP]

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:09 am @Alison if your wincon is to have half of the number of the people alive bargained with you, then why'd you out that you gave LC the track?

1) it helps give town assurance that I was following their pool
2) if the mafia wanted to kill the person I bargained with, they'd just shoot me - night actions that get sent to me get redirected to my bargainees
3) it magnetizes protects onto LC, thus preventing issues where I keep mum about who I bargained with and my target dies in the night to a random shot.

Offered LC Tracker last night. He accepted.

since multiple people have asked for tracker:

I will be giving a TRACKER ability to one of the people in this pool:

[112, wilgy, marmot, nutella, LC, mac]

if you have any strong preferences for power roles I'm going to hand out, speak now, else I'll use my discretion

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:43 pm

Made wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:42 pm also, mac, what was the point of tagging Alison?
She's transcending this game

Shes a good player and if I ask her nicely to townside for a second and give me a fair unbiased analysis I believe she will.

I'm already handing out power roles like candy, I really don't need to give the mafia more reason to shoot me. Also consider that intentionally exerting as little influence over the thread as possible is a way of proving that I am in fact 3P and not mafia like some people are claiming.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:39 pm @nutella @Sloonei @Timsup2nothin @Michelle @tutuu @Alison @Master Radishes

May I bother you to read Cat's ISO and give me a summary pleeeease.

I'm not scumhunting this game. Don't want to get shot.

pool so far with all the suggestions:

[112, marmot, LC, wilgy, sloonei, nutella, mac]

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:35 pm alright @Alison for now 112/wilgy/marmot pool please, we will keep u updated!

acknowledged!

tutuu:

- you get the ability the following night after i bargain. So if I bargain for bus driver with someone n1 they can start bus driving n2

- thieving role steals abilities for 1 phase. So if you end day 2 voting for the tracker, then n2 you get a tracker ability. n3 you lose the tracker ability but gain an ability from whoever you voted d3, etc.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:03 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:03 pm oh right while I'm here I should advertise that I've recently started playing League of Legends, and since we all know this is a League of Legends forum, if y'all wanna add me, I'm Alison Air on the NA server. I've already had a fun game with Marmot and Urist is on my friends list too!

alright peace out for now since nobody seems to have more questions!

r u mafia?

no

oh right while I'm here I should advertise that I've recently started playing League of Legends, and since we all know this is a League of Legends forum, if y'all wanna add me, I'm Alison Air on the NA server. I've already had a fun game with Marmot and Urist is on my friends list too!

alright peace out for now since nobody seems to have more questions!

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:54 pm don't really want to get into it, call it a strong feeling about how alison plays

I'm sort of curious to hear what this is about! Maybe after the game

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:56 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:51 pm In Radiohead, Poison was an independent role that had a soup-like ability which could have become hostile to town if the game wasn’t such a blowout. She didn’t end up posing a threat, but she could have.

She made up a fake claim to stay alive and justify all of the information she was accumulating about people’s roles and won behind that.

I am worried about something similar with Alison. There is no way to know, and I have no suggestion for what specifically she could be angling toward right now. But I can’t shake this skepticism. And I don’t exactly know what to do about her either.

It makes me feel a little better that Alison claimed gambit demon specifically. I played in Shadow Corridors and the gambit demon was sort of a true neutral role and didn't pose any inherent threat to town. I think it's possible Alison might be hiding something with her bargains (like maybe taking a certain bargain kills the player who takes it like in Shadow Corridors) but I don't think she's an inherently antitown 3p with that claim. Also from a balance standpoint it would be really scumsided to have 2 scum teams and a hostile 3p.

that's why we're giving the roles to people in the POE anyway. like these are people you wouldn't mind seeing dead regardless so even if I'm hiding some horrendous drawback who gives a fuck

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:51 pm In Radiohead, Poison was an independent role that had a soup-like ability which could have become hostile to town if the game wasn’t such a blowout. She didn’t end up posing a threat, but she could have.

She made up a fake claim to stay alive and justify all of the information she was accumulating about people’s roles and won behind that.

I am worried about something similar with Alison. There is no way to know, and I have no suggestion for what specifically she could be angling toward right now. But I can’t shake this skepticism. And I don’t exactly know what to do about her either.

Poison's was a completely different case. Poison roleclaimed late, after a lot of speculation about a possible 3P nuking the game was bandied about. I claimed on my first post. That makes my claim more credible and trustworthy by definition since it's less influenced by what the thread wants to hear and more influenced by, y'know, my role PM.

The other thing is that I'm not claiming in a completely closed setup. We know what kinds of roles are in this game - they're named after, and meant to spiritually invoke, the roles that people had throughout the year. I'm not claiming something completely out of the box that you've never seen before, I'm claiming Gambit Demon. I would not claim GD unless I was actually GD because of the high chance of a counterclaim. Therefore my role is a role that's similar to GD, as the host has stated that roles people get are meant to follow the spirit of the original role. Which means I'm not completely making shit up, you know that at the very least it's going to involve offering people bargains for mutual gain, and that I have a 3P win condition revolving around bargaining with a ton of people.

So yeah. Treat me with skepticism if you like, but don't compare me to Poison, because this claim is nothing like hers. I've been open and honest about what my role does, why I'm townsiding and how it benefits y'all, and suggested strategies to ensure that any deception on my part doesn't screw you guys over.

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:48 pm i know that's the hope but i dont want thunal in that pool tbh

ok

[112, LC, Wilgy] is the pool

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:45 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:44 pm hyena - I find playing optimally fun. I think this is the optimal way of using my role, so yes

syn - supplement, they get the ability added

tutuu - bus driver can self target

can your target instantly use it the night they receive it?

example you bargain with someone on night 1. they accept. can they use that new power night 1 or night 2?

also:

- thieving (steal ability of who u voted for) - is this permanent? whoever u give this power to, they permanently steal the powers of everyone they end their votes on at EoD, or only for 1 night?

I'll check and get back to you

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:45 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:42 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:41 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:33 pmto put it bluntly, the alignments of the players in this game are irrelevant to my win condition, and I don't want to incentivize the mafia to kill me.

Are you enjoying your role? Like, do you find it fun?

She has no intention on reading or participating so I'm guessing no

That's part of why I'm, like, skeptical of Alison (that's not why I voted for her though). Like, the way she's playing doesn't seem very fun. I would kinda expect someone to make the most fun out of a role they can get, and I know Alison to be very creative from my brief interactions with her. Granted, apparently the last person who got her role did the same thing?

I think I'm a fairly creative player, yeah. Like, I don't think many other people would have outed as GD or even considered the possibility that it was the right line of play. I derive fun from playing optimally though, not from screwing around. This is why I avoid stuff like crazy role madness, bastard games or mashes, and why I enjoy playing mountainous the most.

Also, I was the one who cooked up this plan for the last player to get the role.

hyena - I find playing optimally fun. I think this is the optimal way of using my role, so yes

syn - supplement, they get the ability added

tutuu - bus driver can self target

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:38 pm i dont want thunal in there. im concerned about her

that is the idea, a few people have brought up the concept of putting POE'd people in the bargain pool to see if their night actions help you read them better/make mafia choose between killing consensus town and a PR/to ensure that if I'm hiding any negative side effects from my bargains they only hit scummy people

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:37 pm also what power should I give tonight?

the only pro-town thing is tracker right?

I can give each power once only, so I can only make one person a tracker. but no, I have bus driver and doctor in there too.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:37 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:29 pm Why should we believe you are being 100% truthful about your role?
Do you intend to engage in any scum hunting this game?

you don't, but you can make me bargain with people in the POE if you want. I'm honestly happier if that happens, that way there's less chance the mafia might shoot them. that way if anything bad happens to them they eat the bullet, not the consensus town. I read my role PM, realized that it was better to open claim than walk a tightrope trying to give people bargains while looking town in the thread to avoid dying, and gave you all the details. that's all

no, I don't intend to do any scum hunting this game. to put it bluntly, the alignments of the players in this game are irrelevant to my win condition, and I don't want to incentivize the mafia to kill me.

Why are you not concerned about the potential negative ramifications of roleclaiming alluded to in the rules?

because I don't have better alternatives and I'm giving mafia multiple incentives to keep me alive

also what power should I give tonight?

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:31 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:29 pm [tutuu, LC, drwilgy] is my bargain pool for tonight, any violent objections speak now or forever hold your peace

oh hey @Alison could you please take me out? i think im towncore and im likely going to die and you giving me a tracker would go to waste

i dont think that you should make deals with towncore people at least for now

i nominate Thunal33 and 112 to be added to your pool

[thunal, 112, wilgy, LC] pool then?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:29 pm Why should we believe you are being 100% truthful about your role?
Do you intend to engage in any scum hunting this game?

you don't, but you can make me bargain with people in the POE if you want. I'm honestly happier if that happens, that way there's less chance the mafia might shoot them. that way if anything bad happens to them they eat the bullet, not the consensus town. I read my role PM, realized that it was better to open claim than walk a tightrope trying to give people bargains while looking town in the thread to avoid dying, and gave you all the details. that's all

no, I don't intend to do any scum hunting this game. to put it bluntly, the alignments of the players in this game are irrelevant to my win condition, and I don't want to incentivize the mafia to kill me.

[tutuu, LC, drwilgy] is my bargain pool for tonight, any violent objections speak now or forever hold your peace

current bargain pool: [tutuu, LC]

would prefer a 3rd name so less chance mafia NK my slot

questions/concerns answered based on searching "alison" in the thread (if I missed something ping me):

- tim asks why I would claim as 3P, because mafia is forced to NK me and then I lose. answer: because protective roles exist, because my role has the power to redirect nightkills away from me baked into the mechanics, and because scum might not be a bunch of cowards and might try to power wolf and get the power given to them instead of taking the easy way out. I'm not contributing to the thread or doing any solving, so they would much rather shoot actual townies that helps them reach parity. at any rate, what alternatives do I have? if I try to play townie I get shot, if I play scummy I get exed. would much rather openly claim and try to get a free win, just like the original gambit demon did.

- sloonei is worried there might be dangers to my role I haven't disclosed. check shadow corridors for some suggested strategies to leash a 3P claim. also, tutuu suggested making me bargain with people in the POE, so if there's anyone who's going to suffer from taking that deal, it'll be scummy people anyway.

- general tinfoili from a couple of people that I could be mafia fake claiming 3P: I think it is actually fucking insane to win best mafioso award on the syndicate and then hard commit to a strategy that involves taking a completely hands-off approach to the thread that gives up all ability to influence it in any way in the future, on post 1. like, whatever WIFOM or trust or leeway I get from claiming 3P is not worth the ability to not be able to manipulate people and push a scum agenda by talking in the thread. #2435 by sloonei points this out.

see you all the next time I check in

currently the names I've been given are tutuu and LC, I'll choose between them for my bargain! if anyone has a third option speak up now and ideally ping me to make sure I see!

oh right it's good to supply me with like 2 or 3 names and let me pick between them

else the mafia will just kill the people I bargain with, which is bad for both of us (bad for town because your consensus town with a powerful ability just got shot, bad for me because it doesn't help me fulfil my win condition if they die)

also yes I side with mafia in a vacuum and root for them if I'm spectator but I'm also not going to put in effort to help mafia win after I've already fulfilled my win condition, especially since doing so means I never get to out as 3P in the future, which is far more important to me than helping out mafia in a single game /shrug

someone ping me with who I should offer a bargain to before EOD, else I'll use my own discretion, and you don't want that since I'm not caught up

alright good night, go along with my plan if you have a big dick

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:45 am im sad that alison doesnt get to be town or mafia and play normally

as a tron player I am legally obligated to take the line of play that is completely linear & uninteractive and either instantly wins or instantly loses from turn 1

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:41 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:40 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:38 am in Shadow Corridors the Gambit Demon ended up assisting the scum to win iirc.

1) the GD handed out a billion free abilities to town first
2) that was because LC decided to betray y'all, *after* he fulfilled his win con. I have no incentive to help anyone out once my win is locked in because betraying anyone compromises future 3P deals without helping me at all (I'm already won after all)

I dunno you seem like a wolf at heart to me. You did win best mafioso.

yeah but not when it's strictly suboptimal to do that

if I betray town before I fulfil my win con y'all might exe me and then I lose
if I betray town after I fulfil my win con, then all I'm doing is kneecapping my ability to cut similar deals in future games I am 3P, and it's not like I can fulfil my win con twice

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:38 am in Shadow Corridors the Gambit Demon ended up assisting the scum to win iirc.

1) the GD handed out a billion free abilities to town first
2) that was because LC decided to betray y'all, *after* he fulfilled his win con. I have no incentive to help anyone out once my win is locked in because betraying anyone compromises future 3P deals without helping me at all (I'm already won after all)

not copypasta, legit claim

Hard claiming Gambit Demon from Shadow Corridors. It's a little modified from the original version but still keeps the spirit of it. Here's the basic rundown.

- I offer a permanent ability to someone at night. abilities are: track, roleblock, silence (can't speak during next day), disenfranchise (can't vote during next day), give a post restriction, thieving (steal the abilities of who you voted for), protecting, bus driving

- If my offer is accepting, they gain the ability, but I can choose one of two options: either all night actions cast on me get redirected to them the next night OR all votes cast on me get redirected to them the next day.

- I fulfil my win condition if the number of people who I've bargained with exceed the number of people who haven't.

I'm gonna offer the same deal that I proposed in shadow corridors. Y'all come up with consensus town and I'll offer powers to them. In exchange I get a free win, you get free power roles, everyone profits.

FAQ
- how do we know you aren't tricking us into some horrible fate???
take it on trust, host read that they aren't going to have a 3P nuke half the game in GOC, whatever. In Shadow Corridors I proposed some tactics to guard against 3P betrayal, you can try those. Yes I know I was mafia that game but my tactics were legit.

- what if the mafia soupkills you???
imagine being a coward and soupkilling the gambit demon instead of trying to go deep and get the power offered to you instead

- how do we know you're not mafia pretending to be a 3P???
my plan is pretty clearly laid out to give me a free win while also helping the town out. I fully intend to have "auto" from post 1 and will be putting in close to 0 effort to solve or influence the game from this point on. It doesn't make much strategical sense for me to do that if I'm mafia, especially since it will become too obvious that I'm lying about being 3P as the game goes on.

- how do we know you won't side with the mafia after you win like the original Gambit Demon did???
Long Con sided with mafia because he was sentimental and wanted to root for the underdog. I am not sentimental. Siding with the mafia after the town gave me my win is pointless. I have already gotten my win; putting in extra effort is not only meaningless, it actively compromises my ability to make further deals in this vein when I roll 3P in the future. It's strictly suboptimal to do that, so you can be pretty sure I won't do it.

make sure to @ me if you want to tell me who your consensus town to bargain is or have any questions/comments, since I won't be reading the thread closely.