The Syndicate

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:36 pm Well, less than 30 minutes it seems, but I made it!

glad you got my ping in wolfchat

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:35 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:28 pm why does it feel like visor hasn't talked about a bunch of reads but just keeps harping on one read instead?

kinda how i feel about you too

i don't think it's true of dya either

honestly just pull my line about visor verbatim and then swap "you [dya]" for "alison"

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:35 pm spf sunbae Vulgard 3/3 core
nut prolly threadspewed
Couldn't give fewer shits about dya unless Seth flips green
Couldn't give fewer shits about Hally and Zack unless KZA flips green

Alison
Amy
Arete
Dyslexicon
Marluxion
outed wolf
Tangrowth

Someone gimme their most urgent legacy top townie in that bunch

amy

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:31 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:30 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:28 pm why does it feel like visor hasn't talked about a bunch of reads but just keeps harping on one read instead?

honestly, i haven't gotten this impression

at the very least he detoured to explore my alignment for a while

2 reads is many more than 1...

i mean he's also expressed other reads, i was just using that as an example lol

i think he's definitely focused on your a Lot but i don't think it's correct to reduce his play today solely to that

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:28 pm why does it feel like visor hasn't talked about a bunch of reads but just keeps harping on one read instead?

honestly, i haven't gotten this impression

at the very least he detoured to explore my alignment for a while

kinda just wanna use the rest of my posts spamming music links ngl

mods are asleep post vtubers

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:54 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:51 pm dizzy no offense but what the fuck are you talking about

But what do you not understand about my posts?

I probably miss a lot of context, so keep that in mind.

it was largely directed at the sentiment "i would rather misdunk town!seth than correctly dunk wolf!seth"

which is, uhhh

certainly an approach

i think gav's mech talk is the single thing that makes me most hesitant about dunking him

dunno if he has a history of being able to do that as a wolf

shrug

dizzy no offense but what the fuck are you talking about

yeah i think i just wanna stick with gav here.

arete's arguments don't rly sway me bc i frankly think arete's giving gav too much credit for his play this game

Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:51 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:44 pm

bronana wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:36 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:33 pm i retract my townread on dyslexicon

I thought it was weird they retracted their defense of gavial and called him scum

i squinted at that too but i don’t really get why he does it as a wolf

it doesn’t really make sense as w/w to go in hard defending a teammate that you know is going to be caught easily only to then limply wolf read them after they’re pretty much already dead

i could see it more as w/v though, i dunno

i think dizzy’s play this game is generally pretty bizarre

w/v in which direction?

either one i guess

could be w!dizzy white knighting v!gav for the lols and then going “ok, guess i’ll just mislunch him” when gav rolls over

or it could be v!dizzy white knighting w!gav to be contrarian and keep the thread from getting stale and then realizing that gav is probably just a wolf after he’s read more

the latter option seems more likely and is something i could see v!dizzy doing regardless of gavial’s alignment really

see, i feel like the bolded would be more believable if dizzy hadn't outright stated that he thought gav was a bad kill even if he was wolfing

really curious as to what changed his mind on that.

bronana wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:47 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:42 pm dizzy's treatment of gav is bizarre regardless of alignment

hmm, yes, quite

Spoiler: show

i wish gh was in this game so i could make a joke about us being in an f3 with him and whispering "america's team" to each other then snapping him before he can post

borderline sociopathic of you to wish an f3 upon gh

dizzy's treatment of gav is bizarre regardless of alignment

bronana wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:31 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:22 pm sleepy but extant. will probably not significantly deviate from this state for the 2.5 hours remaining to us

catching up piecemeal, am not opposed to killing kza

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:24 pm actually i changed my mind i'm opposed to killing kza solely on the grounds of "we should rly just kill gav"

I think it's weird you're acting as if there is any chance gav lives to night 1

it's been obvious he's gonna be the designated yeet today for like, 40+ hours

the first thing i saw when i refreshed the thread was like 3 kza votes back to back

it seemed like a cromulent thing to comment on

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 12:49 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 12:34 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:23 am Wait vulgard, how did you only quote the posts where I didn't explain and none of the posts where I did?

I think both alison and gav are independently wolfy. I think if alison is a wolf, gav is probably villa because of the whiteknighting that she's kind of sort of doing

I'm not really sure why that's hard to understand?

and nutella why would my "wolf agenda" ever be pushing alison when I know she's a hard elim to make happen?

maybe because you think it looks good, even if you can't stop gav from going over you have tried to push an original suspect

I see you've moved your vote to gav since, but the length of time your vote was parked on alison while you danced around a gav suspicion was concerning to me

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:51 am it's really getting old that people think they should dictate how I play the game. I play on my own terms with my own style. I guess if you don't like it, that's tough for you

????

who is doing that

you did to a degree when you bitched about me wasting posts and how anxiety inducing that was.

I moved to gavial because the more he posts the more i think he's a wolf. I think there's a world where alison is a wolf and gav is villa though

alison's posts have really skeeved me out and I'm sorry that's apparently a problem for you

dya's town actually

actually i changed my mind i'm opposed to killing kza solely on the grounds of "we should rly just kill gav"

sleepy but extant. will probably not significantly deviate from this state for the 2.5 hours remaining to us

catching up piecemeal, am not opposed to killing kza

marl feels like someone who's gonna get flipped d4 or 5 when all the actively wolfy people are gone and we get around to killing off all the "well they aren't out of their wolfrange!!!" people

what does this mean for his alignment? who fucking knows

i won't lie, part of why my vote's where it is and why i'm not trying super hard to envision a v!gav worldview is like

if i'm wrong on gav, oops

but if i'm wrong on, for example, dya, that's WAY worse, because dya is a really really strong villager (ESPECIALLY from d2 on)

and that feeling sort of extends to p much every other alternative candidate i'd be considering atm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:55 am i have somewhat liked outed wolf's posts over the last page or so. he is poking and prodding and making observations that have a fairly high depth of thought that is reminiscent of the stuff that made me townread him in rocks fall. feels like he's in ~detective mode~, and that was a mindset that i felt was missing from his posts earlier in the day

vulgard/nutella/marluxion are my three strongest townreads.

the tier below that is c4 and amy

the "mildly good feelings but in the territory of names that i'm most likely to misread on d1" tier is dyslexicon, outed wolf, tangrowth, and sunbae. i usually have one wolf that manages to slip into the upper tier of my POE on d1 of games like these that i don't find until later, and i feel that this particular pool of names is the most likely to include the wolf(ves) that i am misclearing or misreading.

my current feeling is that ideally, there are two or three wolves in the pool of alison/arete/broana/dyachei/gavial/hally/kza, and then one deeper wolf outside

this might come off like salad, but i find it helpful to think about the game in tiers like this

spf lock v never rescinding for thinking about readslists in exactly the same way i do

this post is only half ironic

i have a couple of minutes actually

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:04 am

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:10 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:07 am

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:05 am if gav is town my desire to kill alison rises exponentially

Me being right about people is a towntell, not a scumtell.

it's not about you being right

it's the fact that, at the time you posted that other gav iso, there was exactly NOTHING i detected in that iso that was at all similar to how he was playing this game

and i think the simplest explanation as to how you're seeing something that isn't necessarily there is that you have TMI that you're looking at 2 villa isos

I think you're still misunderstanding her point, she wasn't ever calling it similar to this game she was calling it similar to seths wolfrange in general

Also why do you think wolf alison would shield town gav idgi

sure but the context that she brought it up in was basically:

alison: "gav's towngame sometimes falls into his wolfrange"

not-alison (i'm not going back to check who this was, fight me): "do you have an example?"

alison: "yeah here" links game where gav was way townier than he is here

like, by exact wording, you're correct, but i think there's a clear insinuation that this game is supposed to be comparable to that one, and i rly think it just... isn't.

===

visor: my primary thinking rn is that i wanna go back and reread the whole gav/alison/dya thing and see how it looks from a distance, cause in real time it was an absolute mess

i feel... a little better about hally, i think. i think they way they were constantly poking at alison and kept coming back with new points about it was very "villager actively thinking about events". it's not unfakeable but it felt pure in the moment

i'm still not entirely sure what to do with arete besides "go try reading them again and see if that helps"

i actually think you voting me is a decent look for you? unless you're intentionally banking on me remembering you doing the same thing in the org game and collecting a townread for it like you did there

but i do agree that i've been posting more confidently this game than perhaps i typically do, or at least than i have in a while - i honestly think it's the pfp, completely unironically

i think my previous "these people could be wolves" pool is still a fine pool of elim candidates today and i think i'd largely feel uncomfortable going outside it unless something big goes down between now and EoD

...but with all the in-fighting within that pool (again, gav/alison/dya is a mess) i'm starting to come around to zack's world of "it's probably harder than that", and i'm honestly unsure where i go next

idk, it' s a decent foundation at least

idm putting mech clears in your list but i do think it's kinda silly to include yourself

but it's NAI-silly so whatever, follow your dreams

rain check on other thoughts cause i'm multitasking rn, just wanted to pop in and shitpost a lil

69th post nice

outed wolf wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:31 am [VOTE: Amy] aubergine

dont think dya needs my vote rn.

just feel a sense of overconfidence.

insubordinate and churlish

Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:22 am

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:10 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:07 am

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:05 am if gav is town my desire to kill alison rises exponentially

Me being right about people is a towntell, not a scumtell.

it's not about you being right

it's the fact that, at the time you posted that other gav iso, there was exactly NOTHING i detected in that iso that was at all similar to how he was playing this game

and i think the simplest explanation as to how you're seeing something that isn't necessarily there is that you have TMI that you're looking at 2 villa isos

why can't she be a villager who was seeing something different from the specific things you thought were salient?

if she is, then she's failed to adequately explain what exactly it is that she saw

Alison wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:07 am

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:05 am if gav is town my desire to kill alison rises exponentially

Me being right about people is a towntell, not a scumtell.

it's not about you being right

it's the fact that, at the time you posted that other gav iso, there was exactly NOTHING i detected in that iso that was at all similar to how he was playing this game

and i think the simplest explanation as to how you're seeing something that isn't necessarily there is that you have TMI that you're looking at 2 villa isos

if gav is town my desire to kill alison rises exponentially

oh he's

lolcatting?

maybe?

idk man i regret refreshing thread tbh

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:18 am IDK Marmot’s Town I guess

this post killed me instantly

eyes glazed over reading this page. ya girl should maybe consider getting more than 5 hours of sleep going forward

i'll check back in alter

i think boiling down the difference between this game and gav's other game to "level of care" is an oversimplification, i think it's really evident that his overall approach and the things he chooses to care ABOUT are super different in a way that's WIM-agnostic

a bit weirded out that my devil's avocado seems to have gone completely ignored

@dyachei do you have any opinion on the other gavial game, or the meta points i brought up against him?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:33 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:30 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 pm I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

^^i actually do take issue with this post from alison, because i feel like she was trying to generalize all of the suspicion against gavial as being related to him being "anti-town", when it was very clear that the majority of suspicion toward him had nothing to do w/him being anti-town or pro-town. it felt like a post that was intended to steer the thread consensus in a specific direction, which isn't implausible for alison to do as a villager, but the generalization grinded my gears a bit

It was not clear to me. I was just putting out what I know about Seth's meta because I saw the word anti-town bounced around a couple of times. I don't think it's fair to me to characterize me as trying to say that all the suspicion against Gavial was because he was anti-town.

Like what exactly is the idea here? I say "guys Gavial is always anti-town it's NAI for him", you guys look at your legitimate grievances with actual wolfy play by Seth and think "oh well Alison says anti-town play is NAI for Gavial so I guess I can't scumread him now"?

i imagine the perception shift would be designed to sway the people who DIDN'T have much opinion on gavial more than the people who are actively wolfreading him

the more people you can get dismissing wolfreads on that slot as being "lazy" by convincing those people "oh he's antitown either way, he must be unreadable", the less likely it is that a wagon on him gains actual traction

not that i'm 100% convinced this is what went down, but that's my perception of spf's theory

to play devil's advocate:

for alison to have TMI that seth is a wolf, see THAT iso, and decide that she can pass it off as "indistinguishable from his wolfgame" in a manner that would get us to back off of him here requires alison to either think we're REALLY dumb or for her to somehow not see the difference despite having tmi

i guess it could be the sort of outlandishly brazen claim that i've heard w!alison likes to make? dunno. never seen her wolfgame

but on the surface it's such an obtuse point in seth's defense that i'm tempted to call it unaligned as a lv1 read, just because in what universe does that ever work?

(on the other hand if gavial does somehow wind up a villager i kinda just wanna park a vote on alison and go afk for 47 hours 59 minutes)

"this game" meaning the linked game, to be clear

i skimmed the iso for like 10 seconds and i'm even happier with my current vote

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:16 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:09 pm can you link a game where he was a villager and was “indistinguishable” from his wolf game?

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 276&t=2101

he's absolutely a billion times townier in this game than he is here lmao

bronana wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:14 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:09 pm here's a bold and innovative read: i have no idea what hally's alignment is

their "a bunch of lazy townreads, call the lowest hanging of fruits a wolf, a few easy questions" seems like straightforwardly wolfy play

they've had relatively slow starts in the couple games i've been v/v with them, but we've been in the game long enough now and if hally's town i'm just not seeing it yet

there i said it

this is p much where i'm at

the actual biggest issue i have with their earlygame, beyond even the "tmiing zack v" thing (which i concede may be me nitpicking myself into oblivion), is that they wolfread me in the exact spot where i think a wolf usually throws an easy townread at whichever villager's decided to do slightly more than the bare minimum on page 1

aight, fuck it

ISOing gavial this game i think it's painfully clear he doesn't give a shit about actively engaging other people except regarding their reads on him - and specifically their scumreads. this on its own is already wolfy in a vacuum - and i realize that gavial is a bit more of an "antitown" player than most, but i don't think the previous sentence applies to his towngame at all. grain of salt because it's been a minute, but last time we towned together he was all over the place trying to correct people's reads and actively advancing his own worldview. it was basically the only thing he actually posted to do lol.

is the difference explainable via activity? i don't think so - i recalled a game on Mafia Colosseum where i made a similar read and went back to doublecheck it. i made this read after he had made four posts. i was correct.

i made my ultimatum yesterday because it already looked like he was trending in that direction but i wanted to give him time to do literally anything resembling his towngame. he didn't. dude's just a wolf

Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:02 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:49 pm i think nutella is a villager regardless of hally's alignment

i don’t know if this is because “hally wouldn’t be wrong on nut regardless of their alignment” or not but in case it is, i don’t really like when people sheep my reads on nutella or anyone really because then i feel more pressure to be correct and start second guessing myself even though realistically i’m probably correct on her

i'm already townreading nutella, if you're town that bolsters that, if you're wolfing i think it's tmi

shrug

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 pm I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

fully aware, still voting

debating whether to elaborate or not. i THINK i figured out a meta tell for him but i don't want to give him the answer key lol

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:51 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 am Alison's post wasn't super great - where she basically accused people of trying to get an easy mis-elim on nutella. Not necessarily because it's within the first 3 hours, but because it feels like TMI on nut. But lets say I'm wrong there...she still left the thread shortly after with no other insight. The alison i know usually has other thoughts on the game.

You're right, I usually have more thoughts on the game. I don't this game though. I opened up by saying I had no reads which is pretty unusual for me.

what about this game has been particularly difficult for you to parse?

i think we can both agree that you typically have very strong opinions on mafia and i'm just as surprised as you are at your lack of reads, if not moreso

there's a small voice in the back of my head that's telling me w!hally would fake having more wolfreads than they're currently repping (which afaik is just gavial)

i think nutella is a villager regardless of hally's alignment

bronana wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:21 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:15 pm wolves are in gavial/dya/hally/arete/alison/kza??? with a side helping of "i haven't done due diligence on visor yet"

marl could also be a wolf but i lean v for now

nobody else activates my fight or flight when i call them town so

possibly

seems a bit too straightforward "yes the wolves are the underwhelming people not posting much" though, I'd wager the actual team is more complex than that

fine as a place to start for day 1/2 though

i mean yes you're right that the names i listed are underwhelming and the names i didn't list aren't, and that does have shades of "too easy"

but i'd rather start in the easy world and run off on a snipe hunt later than do it the other way around, yknow?

gun to head if i were to pick people outside that pool who i haven't quite done diligence on and thus could be fooling me it's probably like. c4 mp7 you

i actually have a harebrained theory that gavial flipping w makes alison much less likely to be wolfing

not elaborating rn, ask me again later

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:13 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:12 pm my urge to kill dyachei grows steadily

Is it the lack of things or something that they said recently?

dya's recent absence is understandable given their schedule, i don't really care about that

but i've read over their initial postings a couple of times and every question they ask someone else feels suuuuper fake to me

like, i've been in dya's hydra chat, i know how they think, i know how they like to prod at stuff. there's a natural inquisitiveness and a desire for elaboration that i'm not seeing beyond the barest surface level here.

and i kinda don't buy that they have NO thoughts on hally, though in fairness that could be for activity reasons

wolves are in gavial/dya/hally/arete/alison/kza??? with a side helping of "i haven't done due diligence on visor yet"

marl could also be a wolf but i lean v for now

nobody else activates my fight or flight when i call them town so

my urge to kill dyachei grows steadily

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:49 pm also can yall pls give your opinion on amy once this conversation has run its course

please and thank u

v with reservations

i must admit, i'm not used to being low on readslists out of #fear

these be uncharted waters for me, lads n lasses n [pirate term for enbies goes here]