The Syndicate

yes, the @ilario kill was 100% from a place of fear lol. i was convinced he was going to catch me at any moment

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:49 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:48 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:21 pm Staypositivefriend is mafia because their read on Alison being threadspewed town is such a bad read that it can only come from a mafia version of SPF because town SPF is way better at mafia than to make a read that shit.

Also Alison is threadspewed town.

you guys just don't understand the level I play mafia I guess

in fairness i totally forgot about that lol

yes, i have to give LC credit because his reasons for catching me on d1 were both good and accurate. i've almost never been caught as a wolf so early and so accurately before, even if he didn't end up following through on the push

i have some mixed feelings on this game overall but thanks to marmot for hosting - i like the simplicity of the setup even if it didn't totally come to fruition, and it was a pleasure to wolf with alexa/wilgy

was blindly stumbling in the dark for the majority of this game but it worked out

i forgot how hard wolfing is

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

@Lime Coke - in theory, would you be willing to vote TSP with me? i am not 100% sure that you/gira are town v town but i think the likelihood is higher than not and i'm tempted to try to stop the cross between you/gira by voting for TSP and hoping for the best

@Lime Coke -

who do you want to kill today?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:00 pm I don’t think Gira votes wrong exactly Im just confused

so you think LC is a wolf then?

and i'm not trying to get LC to "latch on" because im outright saying that voting you means that i end up dying today even if i think that youre mafia

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:59 pm SPF I’m to the point where I need to tell you that I’m actually legitimately obviously town and the fact that you’re floating voting for me while clearly just trying to get LC to latch on is possibly a little suspicious

why are you actually legitimately obviously town?

also ive been calling you a probable wolf for several hours now, this isnt a new read

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:58 pm You get the moral victory when you win the game not when you vote for town and the game ends

if you think that he's going to vote wrong, why don't you vote first then? it feels to me like youre just waiting for him to misvote lol

i feel like this is probably a loss but i'm not really sure what else i can do in my position

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:34 pm in theory i could vote TSP but a world where i do that is a world where i need LC + 1 of gira/alexa to vote him with me, and it seems significantly more likely that i would just die if i tried to do that

fixed

there are very few world where i vote first where i dont see myself immediately getting killed as a result

in theory i could vote TSP but a world where i do that is a world where i need LC + 1 of TSP/alexa to vote him with me, and it seems significantly more likely that i would just die if i tried to do that

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:25 pm You're probably expecting me to explode but not really gonna happen.

understandable that you don't wanna explode, but i'm surprised that i'm not really feeling any sense of urgency from your posts right now. your worldview seems pretty confident that gira is town, so don't you want to try to dissuade him?

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:14 pm if anyone plans to vote tonight then i would politely request that they do it within the next couple of hours
voting LC in 30 minutes

if you strongly object to this possibility then vote before then

there's a 99% chance that we lose the game if i vote first even if i somehow manage to vote correctly so im not going to

if anyone plans to vote tonight then i would politely request that they do it within the next couple of hours

i'm still here unfortunately

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:05 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:04 pm honestly the fact that youre pushing on me is making me paranoid as fuck about you even though it probably shouldnt
Valid but it would be wrong to do so.

all i can say is that if i was in this position as a wolf right now i would either be pushing on your or subtly trying to get gira to vote for you instead of calling you town and explicitly telling gira that i think you're a bad vote. if you/gira don't end up crossing today then it looks increasingly likely that i will get voted and killed, so in any world i would be playing completely unstrategically as a wolf right now

the only world where this strategy would make sense if is me/gira are teamed with each other

honestly the fact that youre pushing on me is making me paranoid as fuck about you even though it probably shouldnt

lime coke do you even have any reasons to wolfread me or does it just boil down to: "everyone else is townier"?

lol well we probably just lose this game then

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:53 pm i'm mostly going on emotional stuff from him which is maybe not the best process but he's a weird dude and his particular salt at times in this game didn't seem fake

fwiw i think that his salt regarding the stuff with esooa was very real regardless of his alignment. i wrestled back and forth on whether or not that made him town but i don't personally find it to be a compelling reason

every post that TSP makes toward gira feels like it was explicitly made with the intent to pocket him

the bulk of the reasoning i have to townread lime coke ultimately boils down to: "meta", and while i feel strongly about it, there's only so many times i can jump up and down and declare that LC is town based off of highly specific meta reasons before it becomes redundant

all of my posts are convincing

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:45 pm gira if you're town LC is the wrong vote because it allows spf and alexa to immediately hammer him and win

in this world i would not be trying to talk gira out of voting LC in any circumstance

the only thing about LC that i can really call wolfy today is the fact that he hasn't taken a clear stance on who he thinks the wolves are. does he think it's me/TSP?

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:41 pm but process-wise i am staunchly against waiting until the last minute for the first vote in ELO

yeah that's fair, i believe very strongly that people should wait at ~least 24 hours before voting in LYLO in 99% of situations, but we're at a point where i wouldnt really be mad if someone ended up voting because it feels like the thread is in somewhat of a stalemate

that said, if youre town then i dont really think that LC is the right vote. not sure how to convince you otherwise

to be honest with all of you, im gay

i feel like this is gonna be one of those days where everyone waits for everyone else to make the first move and vote tbh

@Gira - is LC still your top scumread, or has your view of the game changed since you initially wolfread him?

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:43 pm also @staypositivefriend you said that w!Esooa hard defends her partners, but Esooa pushed on me early game and kept pulling up reasons not to townread me?

i used the word "generally" for a reason - esooa will generally hard-defend her partners and try to steer the game into an incorrect direction, but that doesn't mean that she never busses or distances, and i actually think she would be more likely to try to distance from you than pretty much any other player here

granted, i'd have to look back at esooa's push on you because i dont really remember how it went down at all

anyway i'm about to go shopping but i'll be back later

no one vote yet please

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:42 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:37 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:34 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:32 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:29 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:27 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:19 pm

Why's that?
the fact that alexa is still alive in the f5 could be indicative of her being a deepwolf. when i pair that with the fact that she has been not-so-subtly trying to steer the rest of the game into pushing on me and positioning herself to end the day with her vote on me, it's pretty easy to see her as a deepwolf that is playing with the specific agenda to get me killed today. i also think the fact that her read on gira shifted as unnaturally (IMO) as it did could be indicative of her trying to pocket him and steer him into voting for me

esooa/CR/TSP has strongly towntold throughout a lot of this game, but the bulk of my reasoning to townread them boils down to: "emotion", which is the type of thing that i tend to misclear people for more often than not. if i remove "emotion" from the picture, i'm not really sure if i have any compelling reasons to townread the TSP slot. TSP has been explicitly egging on gira's scumread on me and outright trying to get him to vote for me, which also aligns with the agenda of a wolf that's trying to win the game today by getting me killed

above all else, the thing that makes me suspicious of an alexa/TSP team is that their treatment of gira has an interesting synchronicity to it. both of them have been treating gira in a pockety, overly cloying way and both of them have been subtly trying to push gira into voting for me (or in TSP's case, he is also quite possibly trying to get gira to vote for lime coke as well). the way that alexa and TSP are treating gira feels oddly strategic to me, which could be indicative of them just being mafia together
what do you feel about us (me/you) both having the same exact view of TSP then?
the fact that you scumread TSP but you aren't pushing on him is only adding to my paranoia that the two of you might be teamed together

it is EXTREMELY common for wolves in LYLO situations to scumread two players, one town and one mafia, and then push on the town more than they push on the mafia. this is how i caught wolves in LYLO on epicmafia like 99% of the time, by just forcing them to out two scumreads and then seeing who they pushed on more lol
i think we've shown a similar hesitancy to push TSP though is my point? whereas Gira is straight-up locking him as town - and the reasoning i brought up hesitancy on TSP is virtually identical to you
yeah, we have shown a similar hesitancy to push on TSP, but i don't really understand the point that you're making. if youre town then FYPOV i guess it makes sense that you might think me/TSP work as a team for similar reasoning that i think you/TSP work as a team
i mean you're presenting this as me/TSP being W/W because i'm throwing him in a pair without pushing on him while i'm echoing your exact reasonings (Crichard emotional stuff ) for feeling reluctant to push there AND saying that now that it's LYLO i feel like the stakes are higher so i'm looking for additional reasons to townread the slot, like i feel like that is such to a Tee what you just said that you would consider that a bit more and interact with it rather than "Alexa/TSP W/W"

but it isn't just the fact that you are scumreading TSP without fully pushing on him - that just adds fuel to the existing teamread that i already havee

my main reasons for thinking that you work as a team are simply the fact that you and TSP are playing in a synchronous way - your treatment of gira today is identical and your treatment of me today is identical. you have both positioned yourselves to townread/protect gira while positioning yourselves to push on me and vote for me

i am interacting with it as we speak by actually discussing it with you. if i was 100% confident on my solve then i would have voted already, and i voiced the thought that you/TSP might be teamed to cast it into existence and see how it felt

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:34 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:32 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:29 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:27 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:18 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:16 pm SPF wolfreads Gira right
im actually starting to think that it's you and TSP which probably just means that we lose the game
Why's that?
the fact that alexa is still alive in the f5 could be indicative of her being a deepwolf. when i pair that with the fact that she has been not-so-subtly trying to steer the rest of the game into pushing on me and positioning herself to end the day with her vote on me, it's pretty easy to see her as a deepwolf that is playing with the specific agenda to get me killed today. i also think the fact that her read on gira shifted as unnaturally (IMO) as it did could be indicative of her trying to pocket him and steer him into voting for me

esooa/CR/TSP has strongly towntold throughout a lot of this game, but the bulk of my reasoning to townread them boils down to: "emotion", which is the type of thing that i tend to misclear people for more often than not. if i remove "emotion" from the picture, i'm not really sure if i have any compelling reasons to townread the TSP slot. TSP has been explicitly egging on gira's scumread on me and outright trying to get him to vote for me, which also aligns with the agenda of a wolf that's trying to win the game today by getting me killed

above all else, the thing that makes me suspicious of an alexa/TSP team is that their treatment of gira has an interesting synchronicity to it. both of them have been treating gira in a pockety, overly cloying way and both of them have been subtly trying to push gira into voting for me (or in TSP's case, he is also quite possibly trying to get gira to vote for lime coke as well). the way that alexa and TSP are treating gira feels oddly strategic to me, which could be indicative of them just being mafia together
what do you feel about us (me/you) both having the same exact view of TSP then?
the fact that you scumread TSP but you aren't pushing on him is only adding to my paranoia that the two of you might be teamed together

it is EXTREMELY common for wolves in LYLO situations to scumread two players, one town and one mafia, and then push on the town more than they push on the mafia. this is how i caught wolves in LYLO on epicmafia like 99% of the time, by just forcing them to out two scumreads and then seeing who they pushed on more lol
i think we've shown a similar hesitancy to push TSP though is my point? whereas Gira is straight-up locking him as town - and the reasoning i brought up hesitancy on TSP is virtually identical to you

yeah, we have shown a similar hesitancy to push on TSP, but i don't really understand the point that you're making. if youre town then FYPOV i guess it makes sense that you might think me/TSP work as a team for similar reasoning that i think you/TSP work as a team

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:35 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:33 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:32 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:29 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:27 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:18 pm

im actually starting to think that it's you and TSP which probably just means that we lose the game
Why's that?
the fact that alexa is still alive in the f5 could be indicative of her being a deepwolf. when i pair that with the fact that she has been not-so-subtly trying to steer the rest of the game into pushing on me and positioning herself to end the day with her vote on me, it's pretty easy to see her as a deepwolf that is playing with the specific agenda to get me killed today. i also think the fact that her read on gira shifted as unnaturally (IMO) as it did could be indicative of her trying to pocket him and steer him into voting for me

esooa/CR/TSP has strongly towntold throughout a lot of this game, but the bulk of my reasoning to townread them boils down to: "emotion", which is the type of thing that i tend to misclear people for more often than not. if i remove "emotion" from the picture, i'm not really sure if i have any compelling reasons to townread the TSP slot. TSP has been explicitly egging on gira's scumread on me and outright trying to get him to vote for me, which also aligns with the agenda of a wolf that's trying to win the game today by getting me killed

above all else, the thing that makes me suspicious of an alexa/TSP team is that their treatment of gira has an interesting synchronicity to it. both of them have been treating gira in a pockety, overly cloying way and both of them have been subtly trying to push gira into voting for me (or in TSP's case, he is also quite possibly trying to get gira to vote for lime coke as well). the way that alexa and TSP are treating gira feels oddly strategic to me, which could be indicative of them just being mafia together
what do you feel about us (me/you) both having the same exact view of TSP then?
the fact that you scumread TSP but you aren't pushing on him is only adding to my paranoia that the two of you might be teamed together

it is EXTREMELY common for wolves in LYLO situations to scumread two players, one town and one mafia, and then push on the town more than they push on the mafia. this is how i caught wolves in LYLO on epicmafia like 99% of the time, by just forcing them to out two scumreads and then seeing who they pushed on more lol
look you lose to me/alexa something like 600 percent of the time so please maybe think about other players the second paragraph might apply to
i care more about solving the game correctly than i do about winning

actually i guess that's a lie, i care more about winning in the sense that i would rather solve a game incorrectly and still win then solve the game correctly but end up losing

but the fact that you/alexa being the team means that town loses 99% of the time doesnt mean i'm not going to pursue it if i feel like it's true

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:33 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:32 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:29 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:27 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:18 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:16 pm SPF wolfreads Gira right
im actually starting to think that it's you and TSP which probably just means that we lose the game
Why's that?
the fact that alexa is still alive in the f5 could be indicative of her being a deepwolf. when i pair that with the fact that she has been not-so-subtly trying to steer the rest of the game into pushing on me and positioning herself to end the day with her vote on me, it's pretty easy to see her as a deepwolf that is playing with the specific agenda to get me killed today. i also think the fact that her read on gira shifted as unnaturally (IMO) as it did could be indicative of her trying to pocket him and steer him into voting for me

esooa/CR/TSP has strongly towntold throughout a lot of this game, but the bulk of my reasoning to townread them boils down to: "emotion", which is the type of thing that i tend to misclear people for more often than not. if i remove "emotion" from the picture, i'm not really sure if i have any compelling reasons to townread the TSP slot. TSP has been explicitly egging on gira's scumread on me and outright trying to get him to vote for me, which also aligns with the agenda of a wolf that's trying to win the game today by getting me killed

above all else, the thing that makes me suspicious of an alexa/TSP team is that their treatment of gira has an interesting synchronicity to it. both of them have been treating gira in a pockety, overly cloying way and both of them have been subtly trying to push gira into voting for me (or in TSP's case, he is also quite possibly trying to get gira to vote for lime coke as well). the way that alexa and TSP are treating gira feels oddly strategic to me, which could be indicative of them just being mafia together
what do you feel about us (me/you) both having the same exact view of TSP then?
the fact that you scumread TSP but you aren't pushing on him is only adding to my paranoia that the two of you might be teamed together

it is EXTREMELY common for wolves in LYLO situations to scumread two players, one town and one mafia, and then push on the town more than they push on the mafia. this is how i caught wolves in LYLO on epicmafia like 99% of the time, by just forcing them to out two scumreads and then seeing who they pushed on more lol
look you lose to me/alexa something like 600 percent of the time so please maybe think about other players the second paragraph might apply to

i care more about solving the game correctly than i do about winning

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:29 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:27 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:18 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:16 pm SPF wolfreads Gira right
im actually starting to think that it's you and TSP which probably just means that we lose the game
Why's that?
the fact that alexa is still alive in the f5 could be indicative of her being a deepwolf. when i pair that with the fact that she has been not-so-subtly trying to steer the rest of the game into pushing on me and positioning herself to end the day with her vote on me, it's pretty easy to see her as a deepwolf that is playing with the specific agenda to get me killed today. i also think the fact that her read on gira shifted as unnaturally (IMO) as it did could be indicative of her trying to pocket him and steer him into voting for me

esooa/CR/TSP has strongly towntold throughout a lot of this game, but the bulk of my reasoning to townread them boils down to: "emotion", which is the type of thing that i tend to misclear people for more often than not. if i remove "emotion" from the picture, i'm not really sure if i have any compelling reasons to townread the TSP slot. TSP has been explicitly egging on gira's scumread on me and outright trying to get him to vote for me, which also aligns with the agenda of a wolf that's trying to win the game today by getting me killed

above all else, the thing that makes me suspicious of an alexa/TSP team is that their treatment of gira has an interesting synchronicity to it. both of them have been treating gira in a pockety, overly cloying way and both of them have been subtly trying to push gira into voting for me (or in TSP's case, he is also quite possibly trying to get gira to vote for lime coke as well). the way that alexa and TSP are treating gira feels oddly strategic to me, which could be indicative of them just being mafia together
what do you feel about us (me/you) both having the same exact view of TSP then?

the fact that you scumread TSP but you aren't pushing on him is only adding to my paranoia that the two of you might be teamed together

it is EXTREMELY common for wolves in LYLO situations to scumread two players, one town and one mafia, and then push on the town more than they push on the mafia. this is how i caught wolves in LYLO on epicmafia like 99% of the time, by just forcing them to out two scumreads and then seeing who they pushed on more lol

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:23 pm fwiw the only times i've felt toward spf "if you're town, what you're doing is frustrating AF" she's been mafia

whatttt? this is so not true lol, i can recall you getting frustrated by me in the last game we played together (the hydra game) because i was fixated on your read on me

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:18 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:16 pm SPF wolfreads Gira right
im actually starting to think that it's you and TSP which probably just means that we lose the game
Why's that?

the fact that alexa is still alive in the f5 could be indicative of her being a deepwolf. when i pair that with the fact that she has been not-so-subtly trying to steer the rest of the game into pushing on me and positioning herself to end the day with her vote on me, it's pretty easy to see her as a deepwolf that is playing with the specific agenda to get me killed today. i also think the fact that her read on gira shifted as unnaturally (IMO) as it did could be indicative of her trying to pocket him and steer him into voting for me

esooa/CR/TSP has strongly towntold throughout a lot of this game, but the bulk of my reasoning to townread them boils down to: "emotion", which is the type of thing that i tend to misclear people for more often than not. if i remove "emotion" from the picture, i'm not really sure if i have any compelling reasons to townread the TSP slot. TSP has been explicitly egging on gira's scumread on me and outright trying to get him to vote for me, which also aligns with the agenda of a wolf that's trying to win the game today by getting me killed

above all else, the thing that makes me suspicious of an alexa/TSP team is that their treatment of gira has an interesting synchronicity to it. both of them have been treating gira in a pockety, overly cloying way and both of them have been subtly trying to push gira into voting for me (or in TSP's case, he is also quite possibly trying to get gira to vote for lime coke as well). the way that alexa and TSP are treating gira feels oddly strategic to me, which could be indicative of them just being mafia together

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:16 pm SPF wolfreads Gira right

im actually starting to think that it's you and TSP which probably just means that we lose the game

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:13 pm i mean if both of you are town then you should both start deciding that LC is a wolf and we can move on with our lives

would you bank the game on gira being town?

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:09 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:07 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:01 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:54 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:52 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:50 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:48 pm

i'll ISO you later and come up with more. i understand why this would be frustrating for you if you're a villager, i'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around LC or Gira being a wolf.
gira was near the bottom of your POE since yesterday. what happened that changed your read on him so rapidly? did i miss something?
no i decided gira was town yesterday then i thought that only W/W worlds made sense with gira today then i reconsidered that him killing Nook, who townread him and him only, would make literally no sense so i read his posts in a different light and am back to him being a solid townread
but where did the "solid townread" come from? what does it mean to view his posts in a "different light"? if you've explained your read on him in more detail somewhere else then feel free to link it to me, but i feel like this post tells me nothing
in a different light = in the light of thinking he's town/confbiasing him as town because he wouldn't kill Nook, and then I don't have trouble seeing the way he's approaching reads/working through a solve coming from a villager. I think based on our last experience in the anon game, him clearing TSP off of Crich makes a lot of sense - though i'm personally not convinced that the behavior from Rich is exclusive to him being town since it wasn't something i saw from him as either alignment before his break - and his trying to find the villager in me/you/LC but not being convinced that he could win anyway/that we'd townread him all sounded very organic to me and easy to see as the perspective of a villager trying to solve the game. and, a lot of my view of him has been warped at various points from feeling his approach to me was in bad faith.

i may be over emphasizing the amount i townread him, but his posting today imo has been the most towny and i was committed to re-doing my reads from scratch coming into the day
okay, thank you for explaining. i can kind of understand what youre getting at but to be honest i also feel like a lot of this post is just you describing what gira is doing in the game and then ascribing townyness to it, instead of explaining why those specific things ~are~ towny. it's the type of read that leaves me feeling cold because it comes off as being information over analysis, but i think it's a read you could believe in regardless of your alignment
i mean.. maybe

but you have to acknowledge that like, what wolf motivation does gira have to kill the one person townreading him? i don't think there's much proof that Nook re-valled his reads every time he lived or anything like that

and i think that w!Gira not having a reason to lock TSP as V unless they're W/W is a valid point

in general, i think it's a bad idea to read too closely into nightkills, particularly when the nightkills have been as confusing and WIFOMy as they have in this game. it's true that it would not benefit wolf!gira to kill nanook in his position, but this assumes that the wolves didn't have any other benefits from killing nanook that would outweigh nanook's townread on gira. the logic is just assuming way too much about how the wolves were thinking about the nightkills and it really does not work for me

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:05 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:02 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:58 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:28 pm @Gira -

fwiw, i'm not really comfortable with you labeling me as being part of a "clique" and insinuating that i dislike you or have some kind of issue with you. wev'e been running in the same mafia circles with each other since i was 14 years old and i've always assumed that we mutually respect and enjoy playing with each other, so i'm not really sure why this game feels so oddly personal and heated. we can talk about it more in the post-game, but i want to make it clear that i really do not have an issue with you
i did not have any issue with you prior to this game

i think my issue with the dynamics of how things have played out is self-evident
i have more to say about this but i will hold my tongue for now
i don't care to drag any more mud onto the boards of the syndicate people than i have already (and, massive apologies to them) but i sort of have to express what i think is going on

above all else i'm just frustrated that this game would create an issue between us, but it's something that i dont see any benefit in discussing publicly

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:02 pm @staypositivefriend

can you please look at my #2152 and tell me what you think of it?

yeah i mean, i don't really disagree that lime coke's progression on wilgy looks like a bus/indicative of having TMI on a surface level - i actually picked up on something similar a few nights ago when i was reading through everyones progressions on wilgy. if you took that progression in a vacuum then i think it makes sense to wolfread LC for it, but looking at the game in a larger context, i think LC has consistently been outside of his wolfrange and has towntold in many different ways outside of his push on wilgy, so i don't find it a compelling reason on its own for LC to be a wolf

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:01 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:54 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:52 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:50 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:48 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:46 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:39 pm

i dunno. maybe. i'm not really completely sold that any individual team makes complete sense and i'm more-so looking for who i townread the most

i don't think taking that approach in LYLO is unreasonable
not entirely unreasonable, but tbh i expect you to have more to say about me than just: "i townread SPF the least", Lol
i'll ISO you later and come up with more. i understand why this would be frustrating for you if you're a villager, i'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around LC or Gira being a wolf.
gira was near the bottom of your POE since yesterday. what happened that changed your read on him so rapidly? did i miss something?
no i decided gira was town yesterday then i thought that only W/W worlds made sense with gira today then i reconsidered that him killing Nook, who townread him and him only, would make literally no sense so i read his posts in a different light and am back to him being a solid townread
but where did the "solid townread" come from? what does it mean to view his posts in a "different light"? if you've explained your read on him in more detail somewhere else then feel free to link it to me, but i feel like this post tells me nothing
in a different light = in the light of thinking he's town/confbiasing him as town because he wouldn't kill Nook, and then I don't have trouble seeing the way he's approaching reads/working through a solve coming from a villager. I think based on our last experience in the anon game, him clearing TSP off of Crich makes a lot of sense - though i'm personally not convinced that the behavior from Rich is exclusive to him being town since it wasn't something i saw from him as either alignment before his break - and his trying to find the villager in me/you/LC but not being convinced that he could win anyway/that we'd townread him all sounded very organic to me and easy to see as the perspective of a villager trying to solve the game. and, a lot of my view of him has been warped at various points from feeling his approach to me was in bad faith.

i may be over emphasizing the amount i townread him, but his posting today imo has been the most towny and i was committed to re-doing my reads from scratch coming into the day

okay, thank you for explaining. i can kind of understand what youre getting at but to be honest i also feel like a lot of this post is just you describing what gira is doing in the game and then ascribing townyness to it, instead of explaining why those specific things ~are~ towny. it's the type of read that leaves me feeling cold because it comes off as being information over analysis, but i think it's a read you could believe in regardless of your alignment

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