The Syndicate

It's true that I was suffering from some real burnout though

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:14 pm Actually, I think I know why.

Urist seemed pretty much over the game.
Sean was busy (I recall you saying as much).
TSP was the highest posting scum player in Syndicate history.

I did more work than I let on in the thread.
I just... couldn't get over the KZA kill when Poison was calling TSP lock scum for 3 days. She killed KZA and then stopped posting. Who does that? I figured she softed the vig claim and then left when she was locked into claiming a kill on KZA.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:04 pm Never playing mafia again

This
Well played

It was anti town to keep alison alive why would enclave not argue for that

How funny would it be if me voting tsp was just an april fools joke

[VOTE: tony stark prime] aubergine
Trying too hard

i might actually end up voting for tsp here. i feel like i'm voting seanzie just because i don't want to be wrong on tsp. but certain things just don't add up

I slept on this. I'm starting to feel like Seanzie would have better arguments if he were scum. He'd have come into the day prepared and knowing who he'd be going after, etc.
At the same time, TSP has done basically nothing but respond to Seanzie all day. I think he'd be doing more work to convince me if he were town.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:03 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:53 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:48 pm I really think you should think about if Marge was Jack's fakeclaim. TSP seems to think Zeke was, but given that Made claimed something else first, got locked into a certain alignment, then reclaimed, do you think it is really likely that Zeke was indeed a fakeclaim given to scum, and not just Made scrambling?

If TSP is scum then it's probable that mafia got both roles as fakeclaims. But then why doesn't Made claim to have given Nanook the invention?

I don't think scum would have been given two inventor roles?

Idk, I'm still not convinced that Nook got an invention. I'd have to go read what happened after Made claimed Zeke. How long was he alive for after he switched claims?

Oh, also I still think you should ask yourself why scum!Syn would come into the thread and claim to have vigged KZA, who was town. Neither Poison nor Syn had to claim when they did, and killing KZA did not make my slot look good at all, so it makes no sense for scum to pretend to be a town vig taking credit for that shot.

Made claimed Zeke at about 24h into d3. So he was alive for another 24hish afterward.

Poison claimed vig d3, I don't think Syn had much of a choice especially since Frank had already used the shot. I don't think scumSyn had any option other than to claim the KZA kill.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:48 pm I really think you should think about if Marge was Jack's fakeclaim. TSP seems to think Zeke was, but given that Made claimed something else first, got locked into a certain alignment, then reclaimed, do you think it is really likely that Zeke was indeed a fakeclaim given to scum, and not just Made scrambling?

If TSP is scum then it's probable that mafia got both roles as fakeclaims. But then why doesn't Made claim to have given Nanook the invention?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:43 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:41 pm Also because if I vote TSP and he ends up being town I'll feel like a jackass.

But I do think that Nanook had a role cop, and I think that if the scum inventor had given it to him then Made would have just claimed that.

There are a lot of other things as well, including the fact that I don't think Chop v TSP was bussing, Poison's posts were pretty scummy, the KZA shot doesn't make sense from her perspective, TSP has appeared relatively townie the whole game, and Seanzie's arguments today are uninspiring.

at least I made arguments. I repped into a hard game to rep into, with a slot that was not set up well and I tried.

Yeah sorry about that if you're town. You're putting way more effort into this game than I am, which is why I feel bad that I'm the one who has to make this decision.
Honestly I'm trying to look for reasons for why your slot would be town but I've got nothing. Can you point at anything you've done this game that you wouldn't have done as scum?

It's also really hard for me to let go of the fact that Poison didn't vote at all ever.

Also because if I vote TSP and he ends up being town I'll feel like a jackass.

But I do think that Nanook had a role cop, and I think that if the scum inventor had given it to him then Made would have just claimed that.

There are a lot of other things as well, including the fact that I don't think Chop v TSP was bussing, Poison's posts were pretty scummy, the KZA shot doesn't make sense from her perspective, TSP has appeared relatively townie the whole game, and Seanzie's arguments today are uninspiring.

[VOTE: Poisynzie] aubergine for now bc that's the way I'm leaning

Oh Poison claimed conditional vig on d3. Nvm.
Not being able to ask why KZA was targeted instead of the person she called scum 300 times is so frustrating.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:41 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:38 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:37 pm I kinda think poison is afk/slanking town. Would much rather kill chop or Marmot or Kyle or epi or lc

why do you think poison is town?

I think she's the conditional vig

Did Nanook track Poison to Wilgy on n1?? What does this meeeeeean

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:59 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:53 pm I counted 6, sorry. Still the easiest probably. Redding coming close.

So if you truly believe that Hubologists have an easier wincon than Redding, how do you reconcile the fact that in the world you are claiming to be true, there is only 1 Redding, and they are an INVENTOR, meaning their only power is to give stuff to people in other factions? Did JJJ just mess up big time with balancing here?

If your role is real then the only players you can't kill are slaver and jjj, i.e. your enemies. This is not a good argument.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:14 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:02 pm @TSP Where did you imply that you might be the reason for nanook's result on DOOM? I can't see it on d3.

I don't know if I said anything directly but I followed him around on d3 and remember that I told you that I doubted that he was Westin when you told me there was a simplest option or something. I'll look for more details

Right, now I remember you saying something like "I think it's something else".

@TSP Where did you imply that you might be the reason for nanook's result on DOOM? I can't see it on d3.

The obvious explanation for TSP knowing about Nanook's mech info is that the real scum inventor gave Nanook a check n1.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:44 pm @Urist Have I convinced you yet that TSP is a wolf? because if not, I'm majorly failing here, since we are going to lose if you don't realize this. (note: this is sarcasm, but the bad kind of sarcasm which hurts because it is true - I do need you to be convinced of this, but I don't think I'm doing a good job of convincing you)

i haven't done more than skim anything at this point. plan on slanking at work tomorrow to catch up a little more and do some research on some things.

Sorry if you said all this already, I am very low energy irl atm.

Whom else did you target?

Which night did you gift him?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:49 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:48 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:28 pm @Urist From your perspective, you know that the Redding faction has only one person in it... What do you think is more likely, that JJJ gives the 1-person Redding faction one of the most powerful Redding roles (1-shot vig plus 2 double votes), or a Redding role that can only support other factions (2 shot inventor)?

Vig seems a little too powerful a role for a faction that only needs one extra person dead tbqh.
Also I'm trying to figure out how Nanook countered DOOM, I'm not sure a track invention really lines up with that?

I was thinking limited role cop.

Is that what you sent him?

So many people reading the thread rn
no pressure though am i right

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:28 pm @Urist From your perspective, you know that the Redding faction has only one person in it... What do you think is more likely, that JJJ gives the 1-person Redding faction one of the most powerful Redding roles (1-shot vig plus 2 double votes), or a Redding role that can only support other factions (2 shot inventor)?

Vig seems a little too powerful a role for a faction that only needs one extra person dead tbqh.
Also I'm trying to figure out how Nanook countered DOOM, I'm not sure a track invention really lines up with that?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:16 pm KZA's block (accounts for n2 miss)

KZA couldn't block fatal actions.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:09 pm Urist, I think maybe you did this at some point, but can you detail all your actions (night, target, and possibly some thoughts as to why you did what you did?

Protected Nanook on the night after he counterclaimed Made, for that reason. That was the night Sloonei and KZA died.
Protected Epi on the night there was no kill, because everyone was talking about how he was obv town and his role was so obv (narrator: it wasn't).

so salty that i was left alive

It would just be perfect if tsp and marmot are both mafia and i'm accusing the only remaining town. Would really cinch that "worst townie" socky for me.

Plus I slacked off all day and won't have time to make a properly-informed decision by eod.

We've spent a month on this game already, I don't see why we'd rush things now.

I think it's probably fair to say that if the scum had marmot's role as a fakeclaim, they'd probably just have grogu claim that instead of marmot.

I mean I tried the whole "scum wouldn't do something that dumb" thing with DOOM, Chop and Grogu and it decidedly did not work out for me. So your argument is not that compelling at this point for me.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:53 am

Urist wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:37 am My current solve on the NKs is that Wilgy was shot by Frank n1 for being "doctor", and kza was shot by Mac for blocking him.

Alison claimed that her shot was used on mac n1

So is your working theory that Enclave!Poison saw that KZA had died and flipped town, and decided to claim to have vigged KZA, not knowing how KZA had really died and locking my slot into a claim very early?

Syn claimed it d5

I'm like 99% certain that trying to publicly solve the game at this point is antitown tho

My current solve on the NKs is that Wilgy was shot by Frank n1 for being "doctor", and kza was shot by Mac for blocking him.

Alison claimed that her shot was used on mac n1

I've had plenty of impactful contributions they just haven't been protown

Dw though marmot if it's you me and seanzie in the f3 i'll be sure to do my homework instead of immediately voting for seanzie

I don't love being set up to be nk'd but I've been mentally checked-out for the last 5 or so game days so it's probably better if I'm not around in lylo lol

@Seanzie did you claim anything other than the kza shot?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:11 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:06 pm Pretty sure the last scum is poisynzie mostly for competence reasons but also bc i don't buy that poison shot kza of all people.

Competence reasons? I can't really speak on what Poison was thinking unfortunately.

Certain decisions made by members of the mafia lead me to believe that they lacked strong leadership.

Pretty sure the last scum is poisynzie mostly for competence reasons but also bc i don't buy that poison shot kza of all people.

This is the game that never ends
Yes it goes on and on my friends
Some people started playing it not knowing what it was
And then continued playing it forever just because
This is the game that never ends

[VOTE: sleep] aubergine

2h until game end amirite

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:29 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:28 pm The only real reason I have for suspecting marmot is that sloonei was killed
but if marmot is mafia that means that poisynzie is town and therefore killed kza and that means sloonei was prob killed by VC and nanook was shot by enclave so it means marmot cannot be suspicious for the sloonei death
if that makes any sense at all

sloonei killed by enclave, nanook shot by vc?

why would vc shoot nanook? nook outed an enclave member.
ofc it's also possible that mac just didn't shoot, or that they both shot sloonei.
you're actually probably right that chop spewed it.

The only real reason I have for suspecting marmot is that sloonei was killed
but if marmot is mafia that means that poisynzie is town and therefore killed kza and that means sloonei was prob killed by VC and nanook was shot by enclave so it means marmot cannot be suspicious for the sloonei death
if that makes any sense at all

Guess i should [VOTE: jack] aubergine before i forget

I approach things not just as a player but as a game designer.

So the first question given Jacks Long Con (I'm so clever ) for me is this: "Would a mafioso claim an ability to make himself the only other name on the poll?"

The answer to that is "Hell no unless you crazy."

The second question I ask is, "Would I as a game designer give mafia a fakeclaim to transform the poll from anybody can die to 'Mafia has a 50% chance of death?'"

The answer to that is "Hell no I ain't crazy."

The third question I ask is, "Would a mafia member whose faction has this in hand claim this ability?"

See the answer to number one.

I'm gradually gaining the perspective that this is all going to be a cautionary tale of "Just because you can don't mean you should."

The holy hand grenade mechanic was almost certainly going to work against civilians.

Jack had essentially forced our hands into choosing between them, which means if we agree with the answers to the questions above, we have no choice but to accept Jack's decision on the matter.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

On the other hand, using a mafia ability is a pro-Mafia mechanic in almost every scenario, and I'm not altogether sure I buy the "My role allows me to use mafia abilities." I don't even make civilian mafia-ability-users anymore.

The fact is we'd been dealt two names to choose from, and one of them was someone whose skill set doesn't make much sense coming from a mafia member. The other one does.

And at the end of the day, if we lose, I get to blame Jack.

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine

martin is clearly the last wolf posturing for f3