The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:43 pm There’s a decent chance Dana just saved my life.

There's also an irremovable possibility that she was just NK'ed directly.

I'm not discounting that until I look at to whom she has read and what those reads were.

I'm strongly tempted to say 3P poisoner because of the existence of two town 1-shot healers, which effectively in most circumstances only do one heal. Also the poison targets.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:37 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:37 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:33 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:30 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:29 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:25 pm You waited all this time to use a 1-shot?

Despite being very well town-read and not immune to night-kills?

That sounds false.

Shut up scum. You baited the healer out and we made the mistake to believe your healer claim instead of the counter claim! Hawk flipped town, you are scum.
Your comments are negated unless they are to spew a teammate.

You don't get to tell me to shut up.

I would WISH I could do the same to you but fact is neither of us have facts here.

Ok, you choose to spew another teammate. Cool! Thank you kindly. Please tell us, who is your other teammate?

I could give you my readslist but I have a feeling you're going to ignore it after my town flip

You should anyways.

Yeah well I felt like being petty with him. I'm just in no mood for the wrong or fake "AHA, YOU'RE SCUM!!!" to me.

I spent a lot of my yesterday processing my own mistake.

As of p#5498

Actvscenei - Town-Lean
Alison - Town
Allcrab - Town-Lean
Garden Gnome - Scum-Lean
Guillotine - Town
JaggedJimmyJay - Town
lost monkey - Town-Lean
MacDougall - Dunno
Made - Dunno
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Town
Sloonei - Town
Seanzie - Town
Sonny/Orange -Scum-Lean
Tangrowth - Town


~~Poisoner POE (If they're down below I don't town-read them enough to discount)~~

Actvscenei
Allcrab
Garden Gnome
JaggedJimmyJay
lost monkey
MacDougall
Made
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Sloonei (Presuming JJJ hasn't said otherwise)
Sonny/Orange

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:33 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:30 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:29 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:25 pm You waited all this time to use a 1-shot?

Despite being very well town-read and not immune to night-kills?

That sounds false.

Shut up scum. You baited the healer out and we made the mistake to believe your healer claim instead of the counter claim! Hawk flipped town, you are scum.
Your comments are negated unless they are to spew a teammate.

You don't get to tell me to shut up.

I would WISH I could do the same to you but fact is neither of us have facts here.

Ok, you choose to spew another teammate. Cool! Thank you kindly. Please tell us, who is your other teammate?

I could give you my readslist but I have a feeling you're going to ignore it after my town flip

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:29 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:25 pm You waited all this time to use a 1-shot?

Despite being very well town-read and not immune to night-kills?

That sounds false.

Shut up scum. You baited the healer out and we made the mistake to believe your healer claim instead of the counter claim! Hawk flipped town, you are scum.
Your comments are negated unless they are to spew a teammate.

You don't get to tell me to shut up.

I would WISH I could do the same to you but fact is neither of us have facts here.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:25 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 4:25 pm You waited all this time to use a 1-shot?

Despite being very well town-read and not immune to night-kills?

That sounds false.

TMI

I also think just knowing it comes from Gulio can cause doubt on the claim.

Also the amount of times fake-redchecks have been pulled so far I'm beginning to doubt the worth in even saying it unless its held as real all-day.

You waited all this time to use a 1-shot?

Despite being very well town-read and not immune to night-kills?

That sounds false.

So, uh, I have no words for yesterday.

I'm still a bit shocked by it tbh. Never believed there would be another town healer.

I'm slightly happy about the poison targeting a person who I haven't really town-read but it concerns me that it + the other past poison targets may mean (if 3P) the poisoner is mostly town-read or safe.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 3:55 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 3:50 pm Still though ME Lengdary Edition is fun

I'm gonna pick it up on sale at some point this summer. I'm super excited, ME is one of my favorite series

Just fair warning although its great its still possible in some areas to get the Mako stuck in ME1, even with the slight physics improvements they gave it.

I happened to encounter that last night at an auto-save area on Illos. Though I had a save 1 hour and 30 mins roughly prior, I ended up being stubborn and finding a mod to re-enable console commands and find a seriest wonky work-arounds in order to finish the mission. It ended up probably taking me an hour or two than it would have if I had gone back to the old save and worked up to it.

So manually save often!

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 3:49 pm Oh I see, I was mistaken.

I thought traction was a reference to effort/influence. Forgot it referred to wagons.

I suppose that explains your earlier-D3 vote on me.

Was wondering how that came about.

In that case:

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:52 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:32 pm
yeah that's fair. so do you think hawk's entire team is bussing her? if hawk ends up flipping town, where would you look next?

On an independent level, I'm fairly confident a number of the current Hawk voters are town. However, if we're going to assume suspicious votes or bussers, though:

Voters: Seanzie, Sloonei, Made, Actvscenei, Alison, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, MartinGG99, Garden Gnome, Guillotine, JaggedJimmyJay

For those in this color I wouldn't really question their vote at all. I strongly read these players as town for other reasons.

Sloonei (in this color) is a player who've I've partially sheeped other player's reads (namely my town-reads such as Alison or JJJ) on. Maybe it's because I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it independently, but I have some trouble believing in a mafia world that contains him. It feels off if it did.

For those in this color, I do read these as a town-lean but I didn't feel entirely good about their votes. My gut has been slightly concerned about the votes being performative as these votes were in large posts that in some way or aspect stood out to me from their other posts. I could be wrong though.

For those in this color, I have no clue about them. Potentially because I may not be very good at reading them, but the same could be said for some of the other players (who are not part of this color).

Removing Nanook, the people who I personally would look to for possible bussing are possibly Made/Act/Garden, if bussing is presumed.

Oh I see, I was mistaken.

I thought traction was a reference to effort/influence. Forgot it referred to wagons.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 3:42 pm Hawk was almost certainly bussed btw, Martin got no meaningful traction today

Yeah. I've been playing other things, such as Mass Effect Legndary Edition

My life isn't exclusive Forum Mafia y'know, and I think the thread was being productive/solvy enough without my input for most of the game.

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 3:36 pm Lol I was scum gg everyone
Was fun playing here!

Yeah was nice playing with you too

You + Nutella at least made me a bit of a fool of myself for SoD1 reads. I'm hoping I'm not mistaken any more lol.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:17 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:14 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:08 pm I'm caught up.

@JaggedJimmyJay, mind letting me a glimpse at the cogs that led to your conclusion here? I would say more, but I'm trying to keep this question neutral:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:02 pm Yeah Guillotine’s town.

His dedication to gotcha-styled accusation and the accompanying votes looks quite like the thousand town players I have seen before him whose first instinct is to resist Day 1 confidence or absolutism and view their progenitors with suspicion.

Thanks. I can call you town. I didn't want to town-read you from just agreeing with most of your conclusions. Here's what I had wrote down prior:

Tangrowth I think is likely town but I feel uneasy about town-reading them for something I normally don't.
Guilo I think is lean town. Kinda using my gut on this though since I can't find the (effective) words to describe what I'm reading as positive on him atm.
Nutella is town.
JJJ *likely* is town but if he's town I want to find him in a way that doesn't result from me agreeing with most of his conclusions.
hawkataine is lean town; looks promising to me but I hate rushing to a conclusion here without more to see.

Re: the Gulio thing, I felt there was an "innocent" vibe to it but I couldn't describe it well.

We interrupt your daily Mafia broadcast to bring you English shenanigans.

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:32 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:26 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:22 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:20 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:56 pm unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

I would mildly doubt that mafia would right now would take the "idk" stance here when I think for most people its fairly obvious there's one town and one mafia in Martin/Hawk (and therefore have some sort of stance).

It just looks non-mafia to me given the circumstances.

I do agree that one of you is town and the other mafia im just not sold on who's who

Yeah but what I'm saying is that you would know that, and if you were mafia I would imagine you would have something more expressive on it than a readslist.

Given that mafia are currently in a bad position trying to secure their positions or standing could be preety important; normally that means taking stances. Otherwise you just fade in the background and perhaps not really move in people's read of you at all. At least in my view.

That said, not having a stance (more or less) here only seems non-mafia to me. I have no intuition telling me if this is just simply being town or not, though.

yeah that's fair. so do you think hawk's entire team is bussing her? if hawk ends up flipping town, where would you look next?

On an independent level, I'm fairly confident a number of the current Hawk voters are town. However, if we're going to assume suspicious votes or bussers, though:

Voters: Seanzie, Sloonei, Made, Actvscenei, Alison, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, MartinGG99, Garden Gnome, Guillotine, JaggedJimmyJay

For those in this color I wouldn't really question their vote at all. I strongly read these players as town for other reasons.

Sloonei (in this color) is a player who've I've partially sheeped other player's reads (namely my town-reads such as Alison or JJJ) on. Maybe it's because I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it independently, but I have some trouble believing in a mafia world that contains him. It feels off if it did.

For those in this color, I do read these as a town-lean but I didn't feel entirely good about their votes. My gut has been slightly concerned about the votes being performative as these votes were in large posts that in some way or aspect stood out to me from their other posts. I could be wrong though.

For those in this color, I have no clue about them. Potentially because I may not be very good at reading them, but the same could be said for some of the other players (who are not part of this color).

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:22 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:20 pm

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:56 pm unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

I would mildly doubt that mafia would right now would take the "idk" stance here when I think for most people its fairly obvious there's one town and one mafia in Martin/Hawk (and therefore have some sort of stance).

It just looks non-mafia to me given the circumstances.

I do agree that one of you is town and the other mafia im just not sold on who's who

Yeah but what I'm saying is that you would know that, and if you were mafia I would imagine you would have something more expressive on it than a readslist.

Given that mafia are currently in a bad position trying to secure their positions or standing could be preety important; normally that means taking stances. Otherwise you just fade in the background and perhaps not really move in people's read of you at all. At least in my view.

That said, not having a stance (more or less) here only seems non-mafia to me. I have no intuition telling me if this is just simply being town or not, though.

Dana wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:56 pm unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

I would mildly doubt that mafia would right now would take the "idk" stance here when I think for most people its fairly obvious there's one town and one mafia in Martin/Hawk (and therefore have some sort of stance).

It just looks non-mafia to me given the circumstances.

Speaking of Allcrab....

If we were to look at d1 wagons with Made/Nut/Owner (Made in Yellow) on Allcrab's near-EoD reads list:

Allcrab wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 1:55 pm Animal Kingdom
Bunny
Hawk
Tangrowth

Kingdom Outskirts
JJJ
Sonny
Gavial

Plants
Lomo
Nutella

Fungi
Owner
Alison
Made

From what I've read so far

Aside from Hawk this seems fairly anti-cooperation with the mafia team, regardless of whether Made is town or mafia, unless we're thinking significant distancing. At EoD his vote is on Owner too, instead of made (if we presume "Made is disposable mafia theory").

And this is a reads list that doesn't include everyone.

I've been thinking about of it for awhile, since I hadn't really seen such circumstances before, but I think it shines overall better on Allcrab.

Huh. Interesting. I discovered a town-tell in of myself.

Maybe I'll be able to fix it one day.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:25 pm Anyways, I think I believe you(@MartinGG99) and am probably just going to drop it, because at this point I'm going to argue with you about semantics, not gameplay (I love to argue), and that isn't good for the thread.

Well, it was valid.

Just infuriating to deal with, and if anything it will make me more concise and clear with my thoughts in the future.

If I had directly and distinctly clarified thinking there was only 1 healer in the world, and that was me, and I had used my shot, in the first post then this wouldn't have had happened. I just thought the following was implied but it was apparently not.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:21 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:18 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:09 pm You say that you have to mention possibilities that seem likely from other's perspectives but not from yours... but you don't indicate that is what you are doing at all

Uh, how?

Isn't it obvious that is what I'm doing?

Like how about I just say

"Long con you're going to die"

It doesn't have the same character.

What do you mean "Uh, how?"? Please, quote yourself point out the words where you indicate that this is what you are doing.

"Uh, How?" is referring to your statement.

How can you see and substantiate the argument that I wasn't mentioning possibilities from other's perspectives.

That is literally the whole theme of my post right there.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:09 pm You say that you have to mention possibilities that seem likely from other's perspectives but not from yours... but you don't indicate that is what you are doing at all

Uh, how?

Isn't it obvious that is what I'm doing?

Like how about I just say

"Long con you're going to die"

It doesn't have the same character.

At most you can call what I've said to be poorly worded but that clarification was ****intended**** to make things (my past statements) clearer.

To be accused of TMI simply because what I originally said doesn't seem quite as neat or well-endowed with connecting thoughts as the clarification (of which the clarification is intended for) is frustrating.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:50 pm what led you from 1 to 2?

Basically, as I see it in chronological order:

1) Based on the fact that I'm 1-shot, I consider Alison's poison to be real and heal her. I don't imagine a setup with fake poisons against a 1-shot healer.

Additionally, I wonder that if there's a 2nd healer they are likely 1-shot as well. However, that runs into a brick wall because there's nothing to prevent two healers from healing the same person on the same day. So its as if there's only one town healer. It's redundant. So I believe, based on my own role, there's only one healer.

2) Because I spent my only heal, and the above, I go on to believe that poison victim #2 will die and decide to warn them.

I warn long con with mentions of the above. These mentions must be said because he doesn't know what I know, and to assure him of this reality.

3) Later on, Hawk claims to be healer as well. I don't believe it.

Some people entertain the possibility of town and mafia healer. Some suggest lynching me, to which I counter asserting that they fail to realize they can simply test for Long Con's death and vote outside of Martin/Hawk if they don't believe me and instead believe the healer fake-claim.

Since its obvious that I am the healer, I don't need to test that.

4) Someone is confused. I then make the big clarification post that I believed in a single-healer theory. Off the top of my head, everything I have said and acted today is in accordance with this belief.

N o n e of this conflicts or is TMI-indicative. It's all part of a singular belief that was expressed in parts with my actions and assertions.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:50 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:44 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:39 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:29 pm Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

I just explained it in the above.

If I'm going to say that Long Con very likely dies, then I don't see anything in that post as being unnecessary to making that point.

You're either missing my point or dodging it.

1.) You started by claiming healer, and seemingly in your claim you would not at all be surprised to see a second healer claim, but then

2.) Not long afterwards, you seemed to express strong conviction that there couldn't be a second healer in the game.

These things don't jive. Please explain your thoughts, what led you from 1 to 2?

1. Remove anything substantiated by "Seemingly". You're conjecturing here, and I tend to be very specific with my wording and intents.

Besides, if I had any real belief that there was a 2nd healer then I would not have warned Long Con. That simple.

However, I don't know if others have a different vision of the setup. So in order to make my point I have to mention the possibilities that may seem likely from theirs, but aren't from mine.

2. This doesn't conflict with #1. Number 2 is a clarification after all.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:39 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:29 pm Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Why did you switch from seeming to think there could be a second healer to then seeing to think there absolutely couldn't be one?

I just explained it in the above.

If I'm going to say that Long Con very likely dies, then I don't see anything in that post as being unnecessary to making that point.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:34 pm which is kind of contradictory to what he was saying in the last post

It is not.

I was addressing those points in accordance to my beliefs in the game, and to substantiate the point that Long Con is going to die from my point of view.

If I had knowledge that there were two healers (presuming there is two healers) then that message would not have existed; I could not have known whether the other healer used their shot(s) or not.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 7:29 pm Your question is a valid one Seanzie. That’s rather on the nose. Has Martin answered this?

No I haven't, I think Seanzie's question was intended for you and I thought the suggestion was ridiculous.

I don't see why I wouldn't mention anything I said in that post.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 4:26 pm@Made, @MartinGG99 @Allcrab, @Garden Gnome, @lost monkey @bad bunny @Dana, I'm looking at you. Also @orangecrush, even though I get you just joined. This is where scum's ML's are going to come from, so those of you in this pile that are town, PLEASE PLEASE come participate more. Either show yourself as town, or at least make it so the wolves have to work/out themselves to get you mislunched.

I'm confused.

Do you think Hawk is going to flip as a town healer and somehow prove I didn't heal Alison, even though I claimed it first solely for the purpose of warning Long Con because I think there's only one healer in the game?

If hawk doesn't flip town healer then there should be 0 reason to even suspect me unless there's another healer claim in the future.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:31 pm

Kito wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:39 pm

Kito wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:36 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:20 pm I received [an item] last night. So I would speculate that we have an abundance of gift-giving roles. I do not think I would have been Owner's target. She was more suspicious of me than not on Day 1.

Why didn't you say anything before?

There was no reason to.

And there is now?

Cancel my town read on you, this timing is pretty atrocious

Let's look into why Kito died las night.

Has someone claimed gifting something to Sloonei already? I have not seen it.

My personal opinion/theory is that they believed having Owner + Nutella flip, while Kito having unvoted at EoD1 and his D1 ISO, spewed him very likely town.

I think even more so if Made was town that they were trying to save Nutella on at EoD1. It could still be possible if made were mafia, and just the preferred mafioso to go, but I'm not really feeling that at the moment.

Besides, maybe its a moonshot to encourage friction among the town-read players. Could be my preference or confirmation bias though; I generally favor those kinds of kills if I were mafia and thought I wasn't in a good-enough position to make to an F-X and have a decent chance of winning F-X.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:58 am @MartinGG99 a reads list from you would also go a long way.

My current reads list looks like this:

As of p#4925

Actvscenei - Town-Lean
Alison - Town
Allcrab - Town-Lean
bad bunny - Scum-Lean
Dana - Town-Lean
Garden Gnome - Dunno
Guillotine - Town
hawkataine - Scum
JaggedJimmyJay - Town
Long Con - Dunno
lost monkey - Town-Lean
MacDougall - Dunno
Made - Town-Lean
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Town-Lean
Sloonei - Town
Seanzie - Town
Sonny/Orange - Dunno
Tangrowth - Town

Basically you can see this as:

Town - I would never allow a deletion here.
Town-Lean - I would review them a bit more and probably defend them somewhat (or more if my town-lean or read is reassured) if they were on a chopping block.
Dunno - I would not care if this person was or wasn't on a chopping block; I have no confident read on them yet.
Scum-Lean - I would prefer to see this person gone, and would suggest it if one of my town-leans or town-reads are an alternative. Otherwise, who I prefer tends towards who's flip I think is likely going to shed light on others AKA the forbidden practice of info-yeet and circumstantial discretion.
Scum - Well, this is obvious. I would actively try to see them gone.

Keep in mind most of these reads may be a result from specifically mafia-hunting; I haven't really evaluated for 3P's or 3P potential. I also may be reviewing my town-leans soon at some point, I get the feeling there may be 1 mafia in there considering how some of my town-reads and town-leans have read each other. I just don't know who.

I have older (not-posted) versions of these if you want them, I used them to organize my general thoughts. Though I may not clearly recall my reasoning for some of those reads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:41 pm I would be surprised by a mafia-aligned poisoner since Owner's role had the potential to cause two extra night kills (and was guaranteed to cause at least one). To me this bears all the marks of a 3rd party role, and the OP might as well just say that there is at least one independent role in this game.

I do however have no trouble seeing a healer on the mafia team if the above is true. And for that reason proving hawkataine's role does absolutely nothing to solve hawkataine's alignment.

I haven't seen any indication of vanilla roles, and that this is a closed setup.

Perhaps the Mafia do need the extra kills because of that. And more of a reason for me to think there's no 3P poisoner.

Though I'm willing to admit I don't really have any sort of extensive experience with setups to know exactly what's going on.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:40 pm once I warn the next poison target of the fact that they may literally die to poison.

Ebwop.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:35 pm Did you give any indication that you targeted Alison yesterday?

@hawkataine, same question, did you give any indication that you targeted Alison yesterday?

Didn't need to, from a D2 perspective.

What's the point in hinting of having cured Alison?

If I die in the night after Alison lives, people will figure it out from my one shot.

If I don't die in the night then people will figure it out anyways once I warn the next poison target of the fact that may literally die.

If I were to get deleted by vote on D2, I believe the healer action doesn't get blocked if submitted before my own (hypothetical) D2 deletion.

There's literally 0 incentive for me to hint it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:12 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:55 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:35 pm @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME sup with Martin

......Are people going to ignore the fact that Hawk is claiming 2-shot healer and the easiest way to test this is to see if Long Con dies or not?

I bet my slot that Long Con dies. I strongly believe my 1-shot capability implies there's no fake poisons. And since the only other Healer claim is Hawk at this point, I think that fact is even more likely. @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, If you somehow believe Hawk (or just simply think I'm not town) then the correct action here is to delete me a day later.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:58 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:57 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:56 pm Also

[VOTE: Hawkatine] aubergine

If you want us to verify Hawk's claim, why are you voting her?

I never said that *I* wanted that.

I said for other people's perspectives, that's the correct action.

Me? I think the truth is preety obvious.

To be fair I don't entirely understand what's going on here.

I'll clarify: I don't think there's two healers, much less with different shot amounts.

If the poisoner is 3P, and there's two healers (with a collective 3 shots) for some god-forsaken-reason, then I have no clue why the 3P is granted no meaningful extra-mechanical effect or advantage (towards their ends as a result of themselves) on the game until EoD3. Or, if the healers are town and mafia aligned; and that the mafia healer only heals mafia (either intentionally or per role limitation), then the theoretical 3P Poisoner in a different hypothetical scenario (where both healers had not died before using their abilities) could be delayed up to EoD4.

This could be delayed even more if the poisoner and mafia night-kill happen to coincide.

Which, when considering the above for a game of this size with my limited experience, seems absurd and intends to make the 3P Poisoner a glorified survivor. They could go almost (if not the entirety of) the whole game without having any sort of mechanical effect, and they could just lose the game if they got off on simply the wrong foot. I'm inclined to think the poisoner is Mafia, and they have limited shots just as a 1-shot healer does. That being probably Hawk given their claim.

There's only one healer, and for anyone who doubts me they can test who the real healer is by seeing Long Con die. Me? I don't have to test that. I know who the healer is, and its not Hawk.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:57 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:56 pm Also

[VOTE: Hawkatine] aubergine

If you want us to verify Hawk's claim, why are you voting her?

I never said that *I* wanted that.

I said for other people's perspectives, that's the correct action.

Me? I think the truth is preety obvious.

Also

[VOTE: Hawkatine] aubergine

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:35 pm @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME sup with Martin

......Are people going to ignore the fact that Hawk is claiming 2-shot healer and the easiest way to test this is to see if Long Con dies or not?

I bet my slot that Long Con dies. I strongly believe my 1-shot capability implies there's no fake poisons. And since the only other Healer claim is Hawk at this point, I think that fact is even more likely. @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, If you somehow believe Hawk (or just simply think I'm not town) then the correct action here is to delete me a day later.

Made wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:01 pm I haven't been playing too close attention. Do we know why no one died N1?

Public theory based on Gaival is that Hawk got role-blocked on night 1 carrying the kill

idk if there's any other unless there's doctors or something

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:38 pm Anyone:

Why is hawkataine town?

Their entrance gave me the impression of being disorganized in a non-wolfy way, such as mentioning that they forgot their town-leans.

They also had similar thoughts as I (though not same reasons) on tangrowth.

However, I haven't found anything positive on them being town as of late. I was mildly disturbed when Hawk last quoted me awhile ago:

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 8:59 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 6:36 pm Anyways I'm caught up, but I think I should re-read some of the last 10 pages tbh since I didn't really feel much progress or inspiration.

Though I would like to know if anyone here could give me a good descriptor of Belzy in general. Or a comparison to another player like them.

Also I'm not sure how to feel about Seanzie's recent jump-in but presuming none of the players who responded to him are mafia I wanna say he's likely town.

I think this is probably a good post that I like? Evaluating Seanzie's alignment dependent on other people seems like a townie idea to have. This is incredibly weak but whatever.
Update: after I finished the thread I came back to write comments and I'm actually more tempted to lean the other way with this. It's strange to imply that seanzie could be teamed with some of these players but not that he could be town while they're mafia? I can't quite describe exactly why this upsets me lol

It felt cheap, but I wasn't entirely sure if this was town just not thinking intuitively or a wolf performance in order to shade. I mean, I've done or thought stupid things myself before.

They also called it incredibly weak but kept on thinking about it with an "update". For which they don't do an "update" for the rest of the original post from where this is quoted from.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:40 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:37 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:33 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:26 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:04 pm Gavial and JaggedJimmyJay will be going on a date this night phase.
They are both effectively jail kept and can only be targeted by killing actions.
We hope the date will go splendidly!

The entire mechanical design of the date was that Gavial and I both had "killing power", at least that could amount to a vote. So that's what this is meant to convey -- the only thing that can happen to us in there is death. The source of that death would have to be ourselves.

Gavial ate it pridefully, and Kito was likely the standard mafia kill.

This does not say that only you two could target each other for a kill, it says that you are both jailkept and only can be targeted for kills.
Hilariously convenient that you could not be investigated, protected etc etc, but you could be killed but you are not killed, YOU! Who has been townread.

Also I know for a fact that when a cupid dies the loverized players become unloverized, so this action of you two being jailkept had to be independent from that, something like a Torturer action.

Gulio you have to realize at some point not every game follows the Holy Book of Mafia Roles authored by Mafia Universe.

If it were that simple they would've posted the role-cards. But they haven't.

Maybe it's because of things such as the Cupid having secret effects after their death, such as the Date.

Martin, if JJJ flips mafia I'm having you hang.

There is no way JJJ does not get killed by mafia last night when they have the chance, I'm telling you this as someone whose very effective at being a wolf, I kill loud voices with thread clout over claimed roles, I would have killed JJJ last night after watching that EoD, no questions asked.
The only way JJJ does not die is if he is Mafia.

What I'm more concerned by is that its not easy to prove what happens here if JJJ is indeed town.

It's very easy to jump on the mafia-JJJ conclusion here without much need for evidence, whereas proving a town JJJ in the situation may very well need.

I don't feel safe in trying to fairly assess it, and if JJJ is mafia we will find that out later. But last I recall there are several players vouching for him; even a player that has reportedly played with him for years and apparently both of them can't really fool the other (If I have my facts straight).

I also have the impression Day 1 and Day 2 in terms of wagons would have taken a different turn if JJJ were mafia.

Role-card descriptions I mean.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:33 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:26 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:04 pm Gavial and JaggedJimmyJay will be going on a date this night phase.
They are both effectively jail kept and can only be targeted by killing actions.
We hope the date will go splendidly!

The entire mechanical design of the date was that Gavial and I both had "killing power", at least that could amount to a vote. So that's what this is meant to convey -- the only thing that can happen to us in there is death. The source of that death would have to be ourselves.

Gavial ate it pridefully, and Kito was likely the standard mafia kill.

This does not say that only you two could target each other for a kill, it says that you are both jailkept and only can be targeted for kills.
Hilariously convenient that you could not be investigated, protected etc etc, but you could be killed but you are not killed, YOU! Who has been townread.

Also I know for a fact that when a cupid dies the loverized players become unloverized, so this action of you two being jailkept had to be independent from that, something like a Torturer action.

Gulio you have to realize at some point not every game follows the Holy Book of Mafia Roles authored by Mafia Universe.

If it were that simple they would've posted the role-cards. But they haven't.

Maybe it's because of things such as the Cupid having secret effects after their death, such as the Date.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:22 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:22 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:21 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:19 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:18 pm [VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

There is no way Mafia don't kill both jailkept players who are immune to any abilities but kills.

We were immune to everything and essentially removed from the game. We could still die, but only by the process I described.

You were immune to nk?

That is my understanding, yes. Gavial and I essentially had night kills to be used on each other/ourselves. We both voted Gavial.

The eod post says differently

I don't care, that's what it was.

I'm inclined to think its unique like JJJ's claim after all.

I mean, Owner did effectively admit to the loverization thing on them

Also EoD says "effectively", which I interpret to be indicative of it not being so simple as that.

It's possible Mafia could have night-killed in there but if they targeted whoever that was sacrificed then they lost another night-kill attempt.

(If it isn't obvious already, yes I'm claiming to have healed Alison)

@Long Con

Unless there's another 1-shot healer, I want to put you on notice that you may be actually dying from poison.

I don't think there's fake poisons given that I'm 1-shot, though I realize that can also be indicative of having the healing ability split up. I doubt that though because there's, to my knowledge, no way to prevent two healers from accidentally healing the same person on the same day.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:41 pm Martin needs to make posts.

Not really though, fmpov. Other than the obvious implication that joining a FM game means you make X amount of posts per day phase.

I think the game is being solved and most of what I'm thinking about is being answered to some degree by what the thread's been doing so far.

I'll only start making more if I don't think what the thread has to naturally offer (without much Martin input) will help me solve. Sometimes I can also answer my own questions by doing ISO's. Or, alternatively, if there's a wagon that I object to because I think they're town.

On The Syndicate here fmpov so far most towns tend to hunt mafia first and then 3P's second.

Some stick that to that regimen so much that we have lost games over it trying to find the last mafia when in fact the mafia were long-dead and the 3P had gained the factional kill ability.