The Syndicate

I also might be forever biased against the inclusion of vengeful roles lol. It doesn't feel fair if there's a chance that all they have to target is town lol (I'm looking at the d1 scotty wagon). Granted, vengeful MAY do that, but who wants to voluntarily vanilla themselves?

I'm not surprised by this result tbh.

When looking at the whole combo of town compared to who the mafia were, I always think town collapses on itself somewhere there. Not because anyone is bad, but there's just too many differences between players and different effort levels that I don't think many of us were going to connect enough to trust each other anyways. Especially in a closed setup where we might not know what the heck is going on.

My only regret is that I didn't sus the Porscha/Seanzie combo more. I had a preety strong feeling Porscha was mafia but held it back due to the supposed read by Seanzie, as I thought maybe only one wolf between the two. It should've been more obvious to me, but it was not. As for DMB/JJJ, maybe I could've known better, but I wasn't given much reason to think otherwise. Rest of it was excellent play by the mafia. They did a few tricks which took advantage of some stuff that I was simply not expecting, and ended up incurring my suspicions to be delayed to the point where I was silenced till the end of the game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:07 pm the fact that her town credit is largely driven by wifom and not by content (severity of emotion, today's silence, etc). Martin has made good observations on this front too.

I really appreciate this summary of what I was seeing. Describing it that way makes it a lot easier to compartmentalize in my head.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:50 pm There's no way I'd leave Sean , Porscha, J alive if I was gonna be quiet Maf

Doesn't, like, nearly everyone on TS know you? I've had a fair number of games with you too.

Besides that, SVS was probably a WIFOM kill on a semi-towny slot who had you + Zenon as largely unkowns and the kill on Tutuu after is mostly self-explanatory.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:22 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:58 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:48 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:44 am wilgy falcon motobot is my immediate poe

i personally found some towny pings in wilgy. some found towny pings in falcon. i dont think anyone townreads motobot
I feel like falcon has been pretty darn towny
why
Sometimes falcon is just like, really towny

Lol I dont recall what posts I saw day 1 I just know I saw some and they felt good even by falcon standards and zenon tr him and she is good at reading him too

if they're preety good even for falcon standards then surely you would be able to re-discover it rather quickly?

I don't get what you're saying with that.

Rico doesn't mention Falcon a whole lot but I think there isn't as much "selective ignorance" as Zenon did with early d1 on the Creature wagon.

Also he straight up goes "uhhhhhh k" in the post of sprawling notes or whatever towards Falcon. Doesn't seem like a very teamed comment.

Falcon45ca -> Zenon (if falcon mafia) / Rico (if falcon not mafia) -> one of motobot/lime coke (if Zenon mafia) / Rico (if Zenon not mafia) -> one of motobot/lime coke

I guess this would be more accurate. The dynamics could change in the future as further solving and interaction occur. Once again, if we go Falcon -> Rico with both green flips either we've lost or its time to hit all the panic buttons, so I' mnot gonig to work to anticipate what I would do in such a situation.

Falcons always the first to go imo.

and if that is correct (meatbaby + Zenon + Falcon) then Rico would have to be a 4th wolf or a 3p in order for him to be not-town, and I already think Zenon's handling of Rico was a bit W/V rather than W/W

so in that world a Rico wolf seems a tad unlikely, though perhaps not impossibly removed since Rico did do d1 vote analysis during day 2 and called all of zenon's posts towards their vote on vivax to be poop; zenon responded to that post and nothing seemed to really progress beyond that

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:19 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:45 am A tentative early PoE order post-meat-baby would be something like

Falcon45ca -> Zenon (if falcon mafia) / Rico (if falcon not mafia) -> one of motobot/lime coke (you all figure it out because I'm probably dead by this point) -> the other of motobot/lime coke

If somehow we go Falcon -> Rico with both green flips either we've lost or its time to hit all the panic buttons.
I saw your post about Falcon/Zenon, but why Rico only if Falcon NOT mafia?

because if Falcon is mafia then Zenon is more likely to be mafia than Rico imo

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:15 am Here you bring up Rondo and Zenon, and then whatever affected Rico, however you don't seem curious about whatever happened to you D2. Also, I realized while ISOing myself last night (I know, conceited, but meh, sometimes it can be really helpful to remember how earlier days went - reads I've forgotten) I realized you were the one who suggested Rondo was silenced (even though you also were removed from the poll and not silenced). I feel like you know things about this, and aren't sharing.

I don't know anything about it. I have presumed that the poll removal of me and rondo was town-inclined, considering nobody seemed to push anything (not even a narrative) once realizing I was removed from the poll. If the wolves did it then there doesn't seem to have been a purpose to it. Same goes for the poll removal on Rondo.

And I've claimed a role since day 1 and that role most certainly would not have known anything about it. Except that I had a weird message on night 1 that seemed to say I was role-blocked but it was also flavorful in that there's a mild chance it was some sort of hidden chance-to-fail on my role that was not stated. So there could be like maybe a 20% chance that it role-blocks you and then removes you from the poll or something, but at that point we're already in the territory of a rather unusual role and so I can't really speculate to any confidence.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:12 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:53 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:38 pm Liver & Onions -falcon45ca
Yogurt - Belzy
Deviled Eggs - Porscha
Pimento Cheese Sandwich - die_meatbaby
Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream - Ricochet
Only five food items for this day phase, when last day phase had eight, and the first day phase had 11

next day phase it will likely be two food items
Three? Unless you expect there to be two night deaths again.

I was sleepy and it didn't occur to me that two deaths occurred each night.

Regardless the # of items and wood/flint have not changed so things could be getting worse.

I'd almost expect it given my role tbh.

anyways I am going to head off now

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:38 pm Liver & Onions -falcon45ca
Yogurt - Belzy
Deviled Eggs - Porscha
Pimento Cheese Sandwich - die_meatbaby
Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream - Ricochet

Only five food items for this day phase, when last day phase had eight, and the first day phase had 11

next day phase it will likely be two food items

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:46 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:39 am if there's a 4th wolf then things get a bit complicated as I'm currently unsure of who they are. Could be motobot or not for all I know.
8-4 would be a dire situation already for toDay. Two phases away from LyLo, if they hit their kill toNight.

Would have expected a 3p (killer), especially given Night protection tool also being obtainable by wolves in principle, but no signs of that from the nightkills, unless it's a role with conditioned activation.

Lylo might not be a certainty even if we knew the specific player-count for each alignment

as hunger/food is a thing

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:43 am General question: which player do you find the hardest to crack, from intel and/or game activity?

Depends on the game circumstances.

In this game, outside of Motobot (since they post VERY little), Rondo would fit that description. He has a playstyle and overall behavior that, iirc, is often something I'm not familiar with. I've played with him only once or twice to realize that I don't really understand the guy well. It leads to issues for me in trying to case him as town or mafia as generally in either department I can be unconfident. Post a lot or post a little, I probably would still have confidence issues with him. Best I can hope for is that the most plausible world does not involve him or he gets cleared by some sort of mech. That or there's a JJJ that I can sheep.

again though I think best way to test this theory is after meatbaby

flip/yeet falcon

if he's green then I think the reasons to support a zenon yeet get lower but if he's red then the reasons get drastically higher, given how earlier I noted that Zenon seemed to selectively ignore Falcon when shading and pressuring the people who led an early d1 Creature wagon

if there's a 4th wolf then things get a bit complicated as I'm currently unsure of who they are. Could be motobot or not for all I know.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:25 pm DrWilgy

Voters: Scotty

MartinGG99

Voters: S~V~S

Ricochet

Voters: Seanzie

Scotty

Voters: Ricochet, DrWilgy, Vivax, die_meatbaby, falcon45ca

Seanzie

Voters: Creature

tutuu

Voters: motobot

Vivax

Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, RondoDimBuckle, Zenon, tutuu, Lime Coke, MartinGG99

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:36 pm Creature

Voters: Zenon, DrWilgy, die_meatbaby, Porscha, Creature, Lime Coke

DrWilgy

Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, tutuu, Seanzie

Lime Coke

Voters: Ricochet, motobot

motobot

Voters: Belzy, MartinGG99

Zenon

Voters: falcon45ca

assuming a three-wolf-team, colored on wolf and not-wolf, my best solution currently

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:22 am you would not do that

"that" refers to the mech reasoning, and the fact that it is largely the only reasoning, not the quote

forgot to place this in the earlier block of quotes, but this is more or less the only thing mentioned of Rico (on day 1) before they started TRing them (on day 2) largely on mech reasons and nothing else

Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:29 pm Vote Rico

I really don't dig either of the main 2 wagon compositions *shrugs*

you would not do that to a scum partner I think, especially for a more-invested player like Zenon

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:42 am Can’t say I noticed weirdness from you.

To elaborate:

I think if someone looked at my recent-ish progression they probably would notice. My weirdness generally involves jumps to stuff out of nowhere because I'm leaning into a pool of different thoughts I'm having in the background all at the same time. The arguments won't be as clear. The direction or whatever I am taking may be less clear. Someone with more experience playing with me would probably know what I'm talking about. Although, come to think of it, not a whole lot of people have played with me a lot previously in this game.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:05 am Looking into Zenon's handling of Rico, and they defend Rico a fair bit in a way that seems sorta V/W. Almost white-knighting territory I would say.

A number of quotes from day 2, with some orange-color highlights of which I think are notable. First one is highlighting Sean's comment, which seems to trigger Zenon's decision to start town-reading and/or defending Rico, because prior to this there's hardly much on Rico by Zenon.

spoiler space
Spoiler: show

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:03 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:18 pm Elim this plz.

Rico is honestly just town unless this is a fake restriction and I donut think it is

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:21 am I genuinely believe post restriction abilities are always wolf sided and generally are always wolf PRs therefore I think Rico is town however there is a juxtaposition with the fact that I think it was me and Porscha were wolfing together don't remember who else and we used our post restriction abilities on ourself so I am acutely aware of that.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:43 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:33 am i'm sorry? what makes you think there is a post restriction ability?
Logic. I mean like literally why else would Rico be playing the way they have today. No shot this was a conscious choice.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:05 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:56 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:52 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:38 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:35 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:33 am i'm sorry? what makes you think there is a post restriction ability?
all of rico's posts
I guess it's possible. but the confidence of which it was said threw me, cuz I was just reading rico as joking around

it didn't occur to me that he *couldnt* post normally
I mean why would someone make the cocos decision to continue to post in that manner while being PoE.

I feel like Rico cares more than to get themself killed for a meme.
I also don't think anyone in their right mind is going to wolf read him because of it, just like you aren't. so he clearly isn't in danger from it
Sure but my point is that in most cases a post restriction is wolf sided so thusly Rico having it is >rand townie

Therefore Rico being a lead wagon is not beneficial and in fact actively a problem.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:48 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:31 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:30 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:24 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:20 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:17 am

okay then push someone else?

sidenote, you literally played a game with post restrictions that wolves applied to themselves too...
You should be acutely aware that I'm not a fan of pushing players and that my general play style is too attempt to get others to see what I'm seeing.

And yes I openly acknowledged this it's in the post where I asserted this feeling
Defend rico all you want, but everyone including you will be aimlessly ditzing around if we don't find some scumreads to push and wagons to consolidate on. like that's the perfect gamestate for wolves. all talk no pressure
In effect isn't finding town going to place pressure somewhere anyways?

Like yes I think players who have a play style around pushing and applying pressure should do such but I do not think that negates how I play the game and I think the system works most effectively when players who apply pressure apply said pressure while listening to players like me who's style is too find and defend town reads.

It's effectively a checks and balances system in effect
okay well you're the one complaining about gamestate so idk why you're defending yourself to me when I make a suggestion to do something different
I'm sorry I'm upsetting you my point mainly is that the game state has stagnated I am attempting to show the thread that by explaining my concerns and my reads on the players currently being pushed I am trying to pull pressure away from players.

I'm not trying to upset you but I think that you want me to play in a way I'm uncomfortable playing and I do not think that my approach is any less effective than if I were pushing someone and making cases.

1st quote

sean makes it clear he wants to get rid of Rico, Zenon announces that Rico is town

2nd quote

Zenon explains reasoning but gives small caveat that, in light of everything else they say about rico, seems like an opening they leave themselves for going the other direction on Rico if they want to

3rd quote

straight says logic...doesn't really react to Porscha asking such a question with an obvious answer. To me "logic" reads as a preety assertive word but reading it again it might not be. Wolves can be assertive about things (especially when pushing against wrong narratives) in order to look better, and I sorta feel this in the later quotes

4th quote

the highlighted looks like white-knighting ("my point" and calling the situation an "active problem" despite saying rico is ">rand townie") or using Rico to push a potential narrative, like just read that and presume Rico town to see what I mean

5th

mild emphasis on self again and what they're doing in connection to game-state, almost as if this is very important (which it would be if the pushed players of d2 are town)

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:42 am Can’t say I noticed weirdness from you.

Also can’t say I follow why I would be wolf for being townread by Zenon.

It was the opposite, zenon wolf and you villager

Also for anyone who has been paying attention to me

I'm well aware I've been behaving a bit weirdly over the past 12 hours or so. Its a bit of a fact that I sometimes just start acting weird, not just socially but also cognitively. It just happens. Not every game, but on occasion it does. Maybe once I wake up I'll break out of my weirdness mood that I seem to be stuck in, as its not necessarily a thing I can control.

I strongly suggest you disregard such weirdness and look into the stuff I've brought up myself, and come to your own conclusions if you're not initially convinced. Do your own research. Don't judge it based on how well or awkwardly I've put my thoughts together for you to examine.

The above post has a spoiler. I forgot to put something below it so people don't accidentally glaze over it as if it were signature spoiler.

Looking into Zenon's handling of Rico, and they defend Rico a fair bit in a way that seems sorta V/W. Almost white-knighting territory I would say.

A number of quotes from day 2, with some orange-color highlights of which I think are notable. First one is highlighting Sean's comment, which seems to trigger Zenon's decision to start town-reading and/or defending Rico, because prior to this there's hardly much on Rico by Zenon.

spoiler space

Spoiler: show

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:03 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:18 pm Elim this plz.

Rico is honestly just town unless this is a fake restriction and I donut think it is

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:21 am I genuinely believe post restriction abilities are always wolf sided and generally are always wolf PRs therefore I think Rico is town however there is a juxtaposition with the fact that I think it was me and Porscha were wolfing together don't remember who else and we used our post restriction abilities on ourself so I am acutely aware of that.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:43 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:33 am i'm sorry? what makes you think there is a post restriction ability?
Logic. I mean like literally why else would Rico be playing the way they have today. No shot this was a conscious choice.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:05 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:56 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:52 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:38 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:35 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:33 am i'm sorry? what makes you think there is a post restriction ability?
all of rico's posts
I guess it's possible. but the confidence of which it was said threw me, cuz I was just reading rico as joking around

it didn't occur to me that he *couldnt* post normally
I mean why would someone make the cocos decision to continue to post in that manner while being PoE.

I feel like Rico cares more than to get themself killed for a meme.
I also don't think anyone in their right mind is going to wolf read him because of it, just like you aren't. so he clearly isn't in danger from it
Sure but my point is that in most cases a post restriction is wolf sided so thusly Rico having it is >rand townie

Therefore Rico being a lead wagon is not beneficial and in fact actively a problem.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:48 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:31 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:30 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:24 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:20 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:17 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:05 am
Martin: This continues from the last quote.

okay then push someone else?

sidenote, you literally played a game with post restrictions that wolves applied to themselves too...
You should be acutely aware that I'm not a fan of pushing players and that my general play style is too attempt to get others to see what I'm seeing.

And yes I openly acknowledged this it's in the post where I asserted this feeling
Defend rico all you want, but everyone including you will be aimlessly ditzing around if we don't find some scumreads to push and wagons to consolidate on. like that's the perfect gamestate for wolves. all talk no pressure
In effect isn't finding town going to place pressure somewhere anyways?

Like yes I think players who have a play style around pushing and applying pressure should do such but I do not think that negates how I play the game and I think the system works most effectively when players who apply pressure apply said pressure while listening to players like me who's style is too find and defend town reads.

It's effectively a checks and balances system in effect
okay well you're the one complaining about gamestate so idk why you're defending yourself to me when I make a suggestion to do something different
I'm sorry I'm upsetting you my point mainly is that the game state has stagnated I am attempting to show the thread that by explaining my concerns and my reads on the players currently being pushed I am trying to pull pressure away from players.

I'm not trying to upset you but I think that you want me to play in a way I'm uncomfortable playing and I do not think that my approach is any less effective than if I were pushing someone and making cases.

A tentative early PoE order post-meat-baby would be something like

Falcon45ca -> Zenon (if falcon mafia) / Rico (if falcon not mafia) -> one of motobot/lime coke (you all figure it out because I'm probably dead by this point) -> the other of motobot/lime coke

If somehow we go Falcon -> Rico with both green flips either we've lost or its time to hit all the panic buttons.

I never actually noticed till now.

By post-count Falcon's probably just mafia judging by the amount of posts available to be read in this game. I don't care what anyone else says, Falcon's probably just mafia for that. If not, then I'm stupid this game.

In addition to that, Zenon also apparently has this moment where they shade an early d1 wagon and follow-up soon-ish with pressure or votes on Tutuu and Vivax, but not Falcon who was also a voter at that time (based on searches of posted votes at that time). Nothing seems to have come of it with respect to falcon, but it more than certainly has for Vivax and Tutuu of which they've voted both at one point or another on d1. Even voting Vivax multiple times.

Zenon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:59 pm I don't think this creature wagon is good lol

Zenon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:59 pmVote: Vivax

Zenon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:33 pmVote Tutuu

annnd this later thing happens:

Zenon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:26 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:54 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:49 pm Talk to me about Neon plz, cuz I'm having troubles finding them as town
I think she decently resembles the town version of her that I saw in champs this season, primarily by way of interrogative chutzpah, and also her skepticism of people she thinks are being too widely town read (especially tutuu), and her exasperation about feeling ignored. I acknowledge the appeal to emotion in the last bit, but I don't really care about that.

Do you have specific concerns about her?
I actually don't really understand how feeling frustrated that I personally felt ignored at EoD is AtE

Where Falcon is clearly expressing some "trouble" with Neon/Zenon (specifically Zenon responds to a post quoting Flacon saying that so Zenon clearly could've been aware of that) but there's barely any interaction between the two after that. What I quote below is basically all the interaction (or even really mention) they have for the rest of the game:
spoiler space

Spoiler: show

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:40 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:03 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:40 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:26 am sometimes feelings are wrong, stupid, pointless, harmful to ourselves, etc. if you don't have a boundary to determine what was actually hurtful instead of it just happening to hurt your feelings then everybody is responsible for someone else's emotions and that's frequently untrue. can we move on and talk about the game
I disagree with the insinuation that feelings are at any point stupid.

Yes I'm aware I'm overly emotional. No I do not think that invalidates my feelings or makes them stupid and yes I do think that means that people should try to understand where and why I feel hurt by certain actions. I am not hurt by every action in hurt by more than most people sure but not everything makes me cry.

Porscha did not insinuate that sometimes feelings are stupid, she flat out said it directly.

And she's right. Sometimes feelings are stupid, wrong, incorrect, harmful, etc.
They aren't though

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:43 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:10 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:54 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:49 am ok i want to respect porscha's wishes to get back into the game

so, lets get back to being serious, guys

question for you two:

has JJJ done isos as town before?
I don't think talking about this is non game related because in mafia emotions often run high and are readable and AI so talking about emotions and the validity of them is useful.

You're addressing part of what tutuu said, but not (imo) the meat of the meal so to speak.

How do you feel about JJJ and his ISO dive?
I feel nothing about it. I don't think it's particularly towny it is however helping me immensely to understand the game better and I hope he continues them

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:12 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:10 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:09 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:08 am can anyone offer a team of 3-4 names?

its not my style too, i prefer towncoring, but i think porscha is right that applying pressure should be good. which means scumreads

motobot, wilgy, falcon is my immediate poe
and i have limecoke and jayjayjay as potentially spicy wolves, depending on how the games goes
LC could move down to immediate, i dunno. i need to read more
I can not because I refuse to do pairings it's too easy to make yourself look unaligned and thus ignore wolfy behavior in favor of this concept that they are not aligned with anyone
ok ignore the pairings part. im also not thinking of pairings. maybe i should have worded differently. can i get a list of 3 or 4 suspects. dont matter if they can make a team or not. independently sussy wussy
My suspect list is way too big...

I guess uh

Creature
JJJ

Who the hell is even in this game

Uh.

Uh.

Omgus.

Falcon

spoiler space

Seems to me a possible meatbaby + Zenon + Falcon world might exist, considering meatbaby could be compatible with these two. Gonna go back to double-check my findings on that compatibility though.

And for those of whom are wondering "gee martin didn't you just insinuate that the silencing of Rondo and Zenon are wolf powers?" and to that yes I did. But I brought it up because in connection to the Tutuu NK I read it as plausibly cover for Zenon and for Zenon to act like they're a victim of a wolf-orchestrated power/plan.

I think I'm going to start working on all of this with full focus sooner. Only for 2-3 hours initially, then I got to sleep. Once I'm back up I'll be here to think about things more because there's a mild chance I will get silenced on n3 and that would be bad because I'm fairly high chance to be a n4 kill.

Btw

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:29 am You were removed from the poll but not silenced, but Rondo was silenced and Zenon was silenced, and the fact that the Rico-quirk only happened once bothers you?

Am I to conjecture that something specific bothers you about the silences on Rondo and Zenon that you're just not sharing?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:29 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:16 am Speaking of silences, if what affects Zenon the same thing that affected Rondo, why is the one that affected Rico single-shot? What occurred to Rico happened only once and nobody else today.

Unless they targeted the same person I guess. I'm trying to ponder out these questions, which may very well lead no-where, but they might highlight or suggest a direction to look. And who knows, maybe someone who hasn't claimed (which, btw, is all but 2 of us alive here if I have my facts straight) will have info on what's going on and want to share. If there are claims though be wary of anti-claim and so try to be somewhat vague on what you claim.
You were removed from the poll but not silenced, but Rondo was silenced and Zenon was silenced, and the fact that the Rico-quirk only happened once bothers you?

Nobody claimed doing it to Rico. Hardly anyone seems to have claimed even indirect responsibility for anything.

It all bothers me, I'm just noting down the discernable differences that seem to exist in an effort to jog my brain at what all of this could mean. Some of these unexplained actions are probably of town or 3p origin, otherwise we're in for a very rough few days as we inch closer and closer to smaller player-counts where the silencings (or otherwise) could have a proportionally larger effect if they are not shot-limited.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:15 am Why did you assume Rondo couldn't post D2?

Because he was still in the game. Also, Rondo doesn't look the type to enjoy being silent. He likes doing things and so I thought it was a reasonable assumption at some point in day 2.

Speaking of silences, if what affects Zenon the same thing that affected Rondo, why is the one that affected Rico single-shot? What occurred to Rico happened only once and nobody else today.

Unless they targeted the same person I guess. I'm trying to ponder out these questions, which may very well lead no-where, but they might highlight or suggest a direction to look. And who knows, maybe someone who hasn't claimed (which, btw, is all but 2 of us alive here if I have my facts straight) will have info on what's going on and want to share. If there are claims though be wary of anti-claim and so try to be somewhat vague on what you claim.

If Zenon is silenced then, assuming the silence is wolf-induced, that doesn't make much sense with the Tutuu NK. The Tutuu flip implicated Zenon since Zenon was sure at a certain point that Tutuu was wolf. And why doesn't JJJ get silenced in the circumstance that they're both town? I don't think it suggests anything about JJJ, but it may have important world-building considerations later.

I might get silenced tomorrow. Especially since my night-protection (wood d1 + flint today) will activate. Which would really suck.

Zenon is someone I need to look further into. I have varying positive impressions of them but I have yet to do a full ISO of them. What direction that may lead me to will help me start building worlds and refine what poe order I would like and etc.

Also Zenon hasn't popped up today, for whatever reason.

Question for you @Seanzie, you still confident in that Porscha thing? I realized earlier I completely forgot them to place them in my poe-oriented view of the game earlier and I think part of it is that I have them written off from consideration because you've vouched for them so much.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:40 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:29 am I am, just in case someone really wants something of me.

Otherwise I'm planning to actually work on solving more when I wake up sometime 13-14 hours from now. Like actually just looking into the possible associatives myself rather than looking at what JJJ pointed out, for example.
If you're still here, what do you think of Rondo and/or Rico?

if there aren't any deepwolves Rico most likely is a wolf is what my intuition says, part of it is prior arguments I've discussed and part of it is just poe

Rondo I've spoken recently about, I largely feel he can be wolf but I'm sheeping JJJ's perspective on it because he has more experience with Rondo and argues that he's among the few that aren't compatible with meatbaby

I am, just in case someone really wants something of me.

Otherwise I'm planning to actually work on solving more when I wake up sometime 13-14 hours from now. Like actually just looking into the possible associatives myself rather than looking at what JJJ pointed out, for example.

I basically agree with most of what you've said. I can't really agree with the Rondo thing though, just because Rondo's largely unknown by me and for all I know he very well would do a very-on-the-nose LAMIST post towards a teammate for the sake of appearing town (and, I would hypothesize, he was saying it more-so for the LAMIST part rather than any interactive value and so I don't really see it as dissociative). But since you seem to know him better I'll sheep it for now. I also do want to note explicitly that

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:10 pm absence of anything between these two is a little concerning given Zenon's 200+ posts

I am somewhat concerned about that as well. Meatbaby had a whole conflict with Tutuu on d1 (a significant suspect of Zenon's if I recall) and so it seems semi-odd that Zenon wouldn't have an interest in Meatbaby. However I don't really think this is damning because I have seen people not interact with others for multiple day phases, perhaps including myself in past games. So while I do find it fairly concerning, I might also be equally inclined to hand-wave it away as nothing.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:45 pm meatbaby/Lime Coke association

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:21 am [VOTE: Die_Meatbaby] aubergine

Not sure how much I believe in it but want my vote somewhere.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:08 pm Townread:
Scotty
Tutuu
JJJ

Townlean:
Zenon
Martin

[VOTE: Die Meat baby] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:14 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:12 pm I won’t endorse voting for meatbaby on D1
@Vivax how many games have they played?
Or even @die_meatbaby can answer themselves.

Either way, would love a check in and more posting from them.
TBH I don't like the JJJ or Tutuu wagons either. So I'd rather go meat_baby.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 12:10 pm If I had a reads list it would look somewhat like...

Townread:
Scotty
Tutuu
JJJ
Zenon
Sean

Townlean:
SVS
Die_meat

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:08 pm Alright so here's how we do this.

Town:
Tutuu
Jayjayy
WhopWhoop (Porscha)
Sean...Seanzie
Ze...non
Die_diee

Part of me wants to try to culminate and try to sponge townreads from part of my towncore, so hopefully I can get those from certain people?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:00 pm Porscha I'm not voting due to SVS legacy.

Die_meat I'm not voting due to Tutuu saying she wouldn't vote them after their outburst on Day 1.

Hold on what else is there.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:13 pm Soooo

Not Voting:
Zenon (Not on the poll, haaaa!)
Porscha
Die_MeatB
Belzy
Martin (?)

Seanzie and JJJ are on the brink unless they've been significantly off as town this game.

Ricochet I'm loosening my grip on and just looking elsewhere.

It's between Falcon, Rondo and Motobot.

And I kinda hate that POE ngl.

I mentioned this interaction earlier as one that had me torn. meatbaby never mentioned LC, so we rely entirely on LC's decent volume of stuff to make a judgment. The first three posts show an [apparent] willingness of LC to go after meatbaby on Day 1 before they showed up with their tone of angst. Then LC moved to a town read. At level 1, that progression is teammate-compatible. Still, LC was not alone in having that progression, and I don't really fault it. I'd feel irresponsible dissociating them entirely on the basis of this material. I don't think LC would be my first guess though. For this more than may any other interaction I would love to have others' takes.

I feel like at level 1 Lime Coke just wouldn't do that and then just commit to having them in townreads, especially with meatbaby being largely an unknown to most of us (even if they got a number of townreads). Lime at times feels like a player who isn't frequently able to maintain high confidence in his gameplay and so I don't think he would just full-send meatbaby into ignorance and non-mention in his posts. Also, from the look of things that day 1 reads list had almost entirely town on it (if we just look at flips, and add you + Sean as not w/w with meatbaby), so its less plausible that he put other scum teammates on there. And if its less plausible that scum teammates would be on there, I somewhat doubt he would throw meatbaby onto there. Meatbaby was relatively new, and although they may have proven themselves to some extent on d1, expectations of them couldn't be certain.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 12:10 pm If I had a reads list it would look somewhat like...

Townread:
Scotty <---
Tutuu <---
JJJ <---
Zenon
Sean <---

Townlean:
SVS <---
Die_meat

That's my 2 cents about it though. I'm not very familiar with Lime Coke's scumplay and handling of teammates. This point may also be completely moot if Zenon happens to be scum and I'm just wrong about them.

For the rest of the posts you quote I kinda just shrugged with respect to a dissociation context tbh.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:11 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:09 pm on the one hand, kinda LAMIST since that is blatantly believing that there's a chance JJJ or whomever is more consensus town-read is not going to be killed instead of you
Since the wording got a bit unclear, I'm clarifying what the "not" was applying to.

fixed

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:09 pm on the one hand, kinda LAMIST since that is blatantly believing that there's a chance JJJ or whomever is more consensus town-read is not going to be killed instead of you[/quote]

Since the wording got a bit unclear, I'm clarifying what the "not" was applying to.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:57 pm And if I die in the night I will simply ask Ricochet be yeeted on Day 4.

@Seanzie
@JaggedJimmyJay
@Porscha
@RondoDimBuckle
@MartinGG99
@Belzy
@falcon45ca
@Zenon
@motobot

on the one hand, kinda LAMIST since that is blatantly believing that there's a chance JJJ or whomever is more consensus town-read is not going to be killed instead of you

on the other hand it is for the sake of voting someone and not really much else so ig town....?

Also like 10% of my brain says I remember a situation like with w.r.t !town lime coke but I have absolute no clue where I saw it in the past on this site, and don't really care to look for it when I could be playing video games instead. Maybe later if it comes down to the wire on some decision involving LC.

The real value in gold might be in the fact that it obfuscates what you really claimed the next day. Strikes me odd that Rondo dived straight for a spear on day 1 but today he went for the gold. I know Rondo didn't officially know his alignment at the start of the game, I think, but it still suggests what he would do as town.

Speaking of which, if anyone is wondering, I use the shovel for SVS's gold which I tend used for a spear.

If I look at this whole game from a PoE perspective. Deepwolf (I don't mean this consensus-wise, its just the perspective from my own reads and relative lack of paranoia over) would be someone in the top group, the only maybe sneaky wolf I could see is Lime Coke, and the rest of the potential wolves is somewhere in the bottom group.

Zenon
Seanzie
JJJ
Belzy

Lime Coke

falcon45ca
motobot
Ricochet
RondoDimBuckle

Rondo has been put out of eternally-null territory and into consideration since he came into here with very little and has a vote on JJJ. I had hoped maybe the disappearance from the thread was his own doing or something and he would make something out of it. But nothing has come up from it.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:05 pm JJJ needs to be held up to a high standard. He needs to lead the town to a wolf chop. If he doesn't he's mafia and he should die. He can't be allowed to just sit there. We love his reads but he can't just sit on the bench

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 6:23 pm ok im out good luck friends

>>>>> if jay is alive on day 4 and there was no mech intervention, please heavily consider policy chopping him for the reason of him being alive. but obviously consider flips and daytalk and everything. but keep it in the back of your minds that him surviving night 3, if he does, is highly questionable. put him under scrutiny. make him squirm. be skeptical of him <<<<<

in particular those two posts I was referring to

I currently don't think there's a wolf between Sean or JJJ. I feel like that might mean something, but I currently don't know what that is.

I'm thinking JJJ is not faking about the watcher ability. If he and Tutuu exchanged role info, that vastly improves my evaluation as to why Tutuu made that message about JJJ why they (for some reason) specifically mentioned day 4.

oh nice

although I somewhat wish it was a different wolf that was caught because I was feeling meatbaby was being real wolfy with the drop in activity, didn't really seem to match their emotional charge against Tutuu on d1

[VOTE: meat] aubergine

if I wasn't getting paranoid of tutuu over their JJJ pressure/shade (which seemed awfully early since there was only one NK at the time of writing) I probably would've advocated for Creature to skip wilgy and kill meatbaby like Tutuu suggested

[VOTE: Flint] aubergine

I won't be around for a few more hours. I haven't really had time to analyze EoD over the night or anything as I've been pre-occupied with life and other stuff.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:59 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:58 pm @Creature meatbaby if wilgy unvotes
Ok

Agree with Tutuu on that one.

I'm actually surprised they said that, Tutuu was trending slightly down for me on certain posts.

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