The Syndicate

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

no.

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:48 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:42 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:41 pm i would selfvote here if i was allowed to. not kidding. i think the game is mega-fucked, people are playing like shit. kill me and the clownshow has to actually maybe re-evaluate. kill made and people just go back to the same fuckin bullshit and the game is lost
Bad attitude. To win, you have to actively fight for town, not throw in the towel
leetic if i continue to be alive in this game i'm going to be the game-losing misvote

i once held that attitude, that you should always fight and struggle to survive no matter what because you're confirmed town and so you dying is always the worst thing possible

but some people are just beyond reason

theyre narcissistic little piggies who only care about satisfying their own ego, they don't care what arguments you make, they don't care what evidence there is

the only thing that can MAYBE convince them is having being wrong thrown in their faces (and even then i doubt it)

nothing i say will convince people

you lock clearing me would not convince people

they're greedy little piggies who want to be the heroes of the game by catching me (or they're butthurt because i suspected them)

they need to actually see me flip to have any chance of re-evaluating

bruh.

i love you as a human being regardless of this game. i am town and acting in good faith, or as good as the game of mafia ever allows.

jack not around. there was a time he put a thing in our chat and it might have been 1610 but he claimed it was a typo/keysmash. If I die here and it actually was a slip then jack I love you.

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:38 pm honestly kill me then kill ran tomorrow

i'm not voting made

this is not in the spirit of thanksgiving

why did you vote ted

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:35 pm Anyway, enough fucking around, it's 25 minutes to EoD. Does anyone have any objections to a Made lynch? (Besides Made obviously)

cripping fear of having been wrong all game

but seriously no not really

Jack's actual role was confirmed town mason with DarlingMonroe. Pretty sure LC would've called it out if this was not the case and it's checked out other than some moments of paranoia on my part.

We believe ted to be both town independently and townslipped for calling him cop.

which in turn makes gira going on ted there stink

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:25 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:20 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:43 pm it's not impossible dizzy can be mafia and not feeling the game, even if he protests that being possible. it happens, sometimes you come out flat. but i'm not really feeling like that is what happened

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:51 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:48 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:47 pm think i'm just going to stay on tsp
Why over Dizzy?
gut. dizzy is frustrating for not really playing but that doesn't tell me much about his alignment. tsp is demonstrably playing and i think the way he has been playing comes as working toward a mafia win condition.

if dizzy is scum and tsp is town i'll eat shit for it, willing to take that risk
Gira explaining why they went for TSP over Dizzy.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:24 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:21 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:15 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:15 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:09 pm [VOTE: Made] aubergine

i read the last two pages in reverse, it's not rondo

i had a flash of uncertainty earlier on ted today but i went to read back on tsp's posts and i still think he is just town from that. i can re-check ted's iso but i highly doubt he is mafia at this point in time

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:36 pm [VOTE: ted] aubergine

idgaf

if people are hung up on me/ted being maf then kill one of us
ted did nothing between this...

[VOTE: Gira] aubergine

don't wanna go rondo after digestion. if he was a wolf he'd be pushing me or made here (hard pushing not just a self pres vote), not abi.

also willing to go made but. fortnite gift card.
Do you think Gira could be paired with anyone but Made?
you in hellworlds. bereft. rondo if it is just rondo.
Why wouldn't Gira go after DizzyMade over TSP in those worlds?
because wind and i found tsp, he'd already telegraphed sus there on d1 so protecting didn't make sense, and a never wavering hellbus is a great strategy that allows him to then coast and push everyone who was less locked on, like me, which is what he's done.
What do you think of these Gira posts?

nothing, why? "eh just gut" is the easiest post to make for any alignment.

Made wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:21 pm wait.. wild thought:
Mac dies and then Nutella dies
Limecoke dies, and then I die

What if Scum's win condition involves removing both half of players from play, and they know who all the pairs are?

i don't see how this would matter? we still win by killing all scum

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:21 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:15 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:15 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:09 pm [VOTE: Made] aubergine

i read the last two pages in reverse, it's not rondo

i had a flash of uncertainty earlier on ted today but i went to read back on tsp's posts and i still think he is just town from that. i can re-check ted's iso but i highly doubt he is mafia at this point in time

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:36 pm [VOTE: ted] aubergine

idgaf

if people are hung up on me/ted being maf then kill one of us
ted did nothing between this...

[VOTE: Gira] aubergine

don't wanna go rondo after digestion. if he was a wolf he'd be pushing me or made here (hard pushing not just a self pres vote), not abi.

also willing to go made but. fortnite gift card.
Do you think Gira could be paired with anyone but Made?
you in hellworlds. bereft. rondo if it is just rondo.
Why wouldn't Gira go after DizzyMade over TSP in those worlds?

because wind and i found tsp, he'd already telegraphed sus there on d1 so protecting didn't make sense, and a never wavering hellbus is a great strategy that allows him to then coast and push everyone who was less locked on, like me, which is what he's done.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:15 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:15 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:09 pm [VOTE: Made] aubergine

i read the last two pages in reverse, it's not rondo

i had a flash of uncertainty earlier on ted today but i went to read back on tsp's posts and i still think he is just town from that. i can re-check ted's iso but i highly doubt he is mafia at this point in time

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:36 pm [VOTE: ted] aubergine

idgaf

if people are hung up on me/ted being maf then kill one of us
ted did nothing between this...

[VOTE: Gira] aubergine

don't wanna go rondo after digestion. if he was a wolf he'd be pushing me or made here (hard pushing not just a self pres vote), not abi.

also willing to go made but. fortnite gift card.
Do you think Gira could be paired with anyone but Made?

you in hellworlds. bereft. rondo if it is just rondo.

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:09 pm [VOTE: Made] aubergine

i read the last two pages in reverse, it's not rondo

i had a flash of uncertainty earlier on ted today but i went to read back on tsp's posts and i still think he is just town from that. i can re-check ted's iso but i highly doubt he is mafia at this point in time

Gira wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:36 pm [VOTE: ted] aubergine

idgaf

if people are hung up on me/ted being maf then kill one of us

ted did nothing between this...

[VOTE: Gira] aubergine

don't wanna go rondo after digestion. if he was a wolf he'd be pushing me or made here (hard pushing not just a self pres vote), not abi.

also willing to go made but. fortnite gift card.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:02 pm the other world it’d be “difficult” in would be gira / abi but more difficult in the sense that they’re both AtEing in a way that intimidates you if you vote them

haven't felt this for abi but have for gira.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:41 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:40 pm I'm awake and here and reading up.

We're at Rondo/Made still, jack has been looking over rondo and can't find reason to townread him.
What do you think of RDB's effort this phase? Also, does Made's ignorance feel genuine to you?

holy post flood batman

1. i like it. digesting it.

2. no not really. we've been talking this over too. rly wish jack had more posts i don't want to skirt the line of talking for him.

I'm awake and here and reading up.

We're at Rondo/Made still, jack has been looking over rondo and can't find reason to townread him.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 4:39 am we need to think more when making posts. we’ve wasted a lot of brad’s posts, we shouldn’t care what goes on in the other thread when we’re sucking. the only relevant thing is reads

@Lime Coke idk if you have them but we are in a tight spot and reads are more important than any question regarding the other thread.

and i’ve just realized a big inconsistency and i wanna smash my head in my table. leetic quoted rdb slapping a town read of me when it came down to the big post putting the PoE of 4 and he villa read me based on the one thing he was looking for wolves for. like legit he said he had been pushed by wolves before all the time and he just yolos a villa read of me for doing that lol

I'm an idiot.

[VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

it has been pointed out to me by the voice in my head that lime probably meant bereft meant he thought porscha was mafia (potentially with jack) when he was in our thread. which makes more sense than what I read it as at first.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:35 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:33 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:27 am He legit said Porscha. Not Abbi.

Can I ask who is considered cleared here?
.... isn't porscha flipped town in that thread?
To be fair, we're not even sure Bereft is town, so they may not be playing to a town wincon.

for sure but pushing fake flips is uh. another level. if this game has actual fake flips i quit.

if any of this is true though it does point towards bereft being aware of his own ??? flip.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:27 am He legit said Porscha. Not Abbi.

Can I ask who is considered cleared here?

.... isn't porscha flipped town in that thread?

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:27 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:22 am
leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:19 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:08 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:13 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:25 pm
I'm with Made.

Will push thoughts there.
Hihi, welcome. Jack has questions (and I'd also like to hear what jack flipped), he's not around right this minute but stay tuned for more.

- Who did pyxxy show up with and what did he say?

- Who did bereft show up with and what did he say?

- How did you go over? Who be wolves on that side?
Pxxy never posted in our thread.

Bereft said he thought Porscha was mafia and you were town.
Didn't Porscha flip town? Do you mean Abby?
ah I'm too late you gave it away.

yeah these don't check out so I'm thinking lime wolf.
Anyway, I at least believe his claims regarding Delta and Long Con, do you believe them?

Think so yeah. hard to account for the removed from game notices otherwise.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:19 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:08 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:13 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:25 pm
I'm with Made.

Will push thoughts there.
Hihi, welcome. Jack has questions (and I'd also like to hear what jack flipped), he's not around right this minute but stay tuned for more.

- Who did pyxxy show up with and what did he say?

- Who did bereft show up with and what did he say?

- How did you go over? Who be wolves on that side?
Pxxy never posted in our thread.

Bereft said he thought Porscha was mafia and you were town.
Didn't Porscha flip town? Do you mean Abby?

ah I'm too late you gave it away.

yeah these don't check out so I'm thinking lime wolf.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:08 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:13 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:25 pm
I'm with Made.

Will push thoughts there.
Hihi, welcome. Jack has questions (and I'd also like to hear what jack flipped), he's not around right this minute but stay tuned for more.

- Who did pyxxy show up with and what did he say?

- Who did bereft show up with and what did he say?

- How did you go over? Who be wolves on that side?
Pxxy never posted in our thread.

Bereft said he thought Porscha was mafia and you were town.

oh. well based on what you know, who do you think is a good vote in this thread right now?

just FYI my parents are coming in to visit either sunday or monday and that is gonna take my mafia time from "i need to pull back" to "nonexistent"

so uh. would really be nice to not be in lylo then. potentially we can even win if bereft was scum, though with 3ps confirmed i'm not getting my hopes up about anything.

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

The bad faith stuff drives me up the wall but. Historically does come from town. Jack also does not approve of voting Gira or ted or leetic (primarily leetic, top townread). We're looking into rondo. We also both raised eyebrows at this post:

Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 7:40 pm I think ran is morelikely town than Abigail, so I'll vote with Ran for now
[VOTE: Gira] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:25 pm
I'm with Made.

Will push thoughts there.

Hihi, welcome. Jack has questions (and I'd also like to hear what jack flipped), he's not around right this minute but stay tuned for more.

- Who did pyxxy show up with and what did he say?

- Who did bereft show up with and what did he say?

- How did you go over? Who be wolves on that side?

Gleh. Sorry. IRL obligations really catching up to me and ate the entire night, and there's still more coming tomorrow/today.

I don't know what to do here. I don't have any strong scumreads besides Gira, and. it's probably bad policy to say this but even that is more like "if he's town and coming at me like this then the game is lost anyway so he needs to be a wolf" and jack makes good points about it sounding like a thing Gira believes if i put my ego aside and blargh.

eod2 felt bizarre. even more than eod3 thinking back. weirdly static and all the people being wagoned just stopped posting. rondo and I were the only people there pushing buttons and trying to solve.

this has endeared rondo to me a great deal because a. he did land on tsp and could have tied it and b. doing a lot of nothing much and then showing up at eod and voting a wolf is a behavior pattern i really struggle to see coming from a wolf. if it's a bus it's a really, really good one.

on the other hand i didn't know about that team of four post. that is in my notes but i only put it down as "weird that rondo townreads leetic and ted for pushing him" and never looked back and saw tsp is in there.
that's... a good catch.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:53 am ok then you’re incredibly wrong

the wolves have a kill every night, we haven’t shown any signs of KP thus far

you’re telling me that the wolves were blocked (our roleblocker is dead) and that our 1 shot villa vig janitor fired last night?

I don't know. I can think of hundreds of things it could be. Third party stuff. Cross thread stuff. Maybe he was Delta's pair and something going on related to that. Maybe wolves can give up a kill in one thread for something in the other. What you're floating equally doesn't make sense to me, because why would there be a wolf janitor if there's no extra KP and why would any wolfteam make that kill?

I don't know. Hunt wolves, not setup spec.

Jack and I are reviewing Gira's push on me. It is a nonsense push, but Jack believes Gira believes it. I'm not convinced it's real thought but I realize I am not in the best position to judge.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:19 pm Wolves never intentionally shoot Bereft here.

Stuck in my head. You’re all welcome.

Ping me with other thread news.

Jack agrees and already spent a post to say as such so I can quote that again. Ig you're welcome to disagree but don't go saying it's "wolfy" we believe this because it's not.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:32 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:24 am
Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:21 am I dont think we have enough information to do game balance pr role analysis. for all we know the other thread is mountainous.

we can weigh the risk of mischopping a claimed powerrole, but the ration of pr being a reason why someone is scum/town feels a step too far
incorrect, we know jack is a cop, which is better than both our investigative roles here combined

well maybe that’s a stretch but still
whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa

jack was not a cop

please hold

If real this is a townslip and it's a pretty odd thing to fake.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:24 am
Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:21 am I dont think we have enough information to do game balance pr role analysis. for all we know the other thread is mountainous.

we can weigh the risk of mischopping a claimed powerrole, but the ration of pr being a reason why someone is scum/town feels a step too far
incorrect, we know jack is a cop, which is better than both our investigative roles here combined

well maybe that’s a stretch but still

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa

jack was not a cop

please hold

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:21 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:17 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:12 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:11 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:07 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
weren’t you the one that was hard pushing him at EoD?
Yes. What's your point.
so he didn’t feel like making wolfy posts but you were begging us to vote him, because?
Because atp it was clear that it was made or pyxxy and I townread pyxxy more, and wanted to solve made/bereft.
Bereft flipped… not wolf presumably, so does that affect your read of Made/Bereft?

I don't know what bereft flipped. I don't see any world or team where wolves intentionally nk bereft though.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:12 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:11 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:07 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
weren’t you the one that was hard pushing him at EoD?
Yes. What's your point.
so he didn’t feel like making wolfy posts but you were begging us to vote him, because?

Because atp it was clear that it was made or pyxxy and I townread pyxxy more, and wanted to solve made/bereft.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:07 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
weren’t you the one that was hard pushing him at EoD?

Yes. What's your point.

Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:55 am can i get a meta check on leetic? is his game this insane regardless of alignment

according to jack yes, leetic lock town

and yeah no kidding I wavered on TSP because of the illario news and Bereft/dizzy. I do not know who the mafia are. I am and have been doing my best to find them, I did find TSP and it should be obvious to everyone that there is no world I'm teamed with him. Apologies for the frustration and the giant quote walls.

what is going on

Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:41 am
TSP becomes a subject of discussion BECAUSE WINDWARD STARTS PUSHING HIM. The most Ran says is "yeah I could vote him too". Ran trying to act like she was the one burying TSP at EOD is incredibly wolfy

WINDWARD STARTS PUSHING HIM BECAUSE I SPENT AN ENTIRE NIGHT REALTIME CONVINCING HER ON HIM

Spoiler: show

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 7:22 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 7:17 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 7:12 pm Any last questions for me before I go for the night?
Reads overview yeah. Anything you want to get out if you die.
:
Mac
Ran
TSP

:
Gira
leetic
Abbi
Bereft

in front of me:
pyxxy
Dizzy

:
Ted*
Rondo*

🫗:
Robyn

*Ted/Rondo with exactly one wolf, never W/W and probably not T/T

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:46 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:46 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:22 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:20 pm I have. Feelings about Robyn but. They are probably not helpful. Regardless we move on. Robyn if you can see this thread I hope you are well.

So.

Rondo, Bereft, TSP, Dizzy all look abysmal to me here. I would like anyone who strongly townreads any of these players to tell me why.
I wrote updated thoughts about Rondo a few posts above, if you want my input
Noted. I disagree with robyn partnership being the main thrust of suspicion though, the main suspicion in my eyes is general wolfyness and lack of solving - that he hadn't and still hasn't Done anything in the game to help town beyond fluff and bluster and easy votes. I gave that a pass yesterday but one of my criteria for him was "he's charging at mac so let mac decide" and mac decided wolfy.

Regardless of his rep, Mac doesn't die if ALL his major suspicions are wrong and the four I listed were his suspects.

(Well three and Bereft, but he also scumread Bereft on first look and flipped around when he was scumreading Robyn, who godscumread Bereft, and we now know Robyn was town so.)

TSP also pinged mac's general scumdar, and before the whole mac robyn thing, we were going on bereft, and TSP came in trying to break that up with a gamestate read and a push on Abi which is... in my eyes weak and not good. There is a big part of me wanting to go Bereft -> TSP here.

And then there is Dizzy who is still just not playing the game but never got hard pressure for it except for me and mac, and now mac is dead.

I do not want to go tedxtr today.
I feel like wolf!TSP would have better options to push than Abbi and me because neither of us were wagons or even scumread by anyone else at the point when TSP decided he thought we were scum. Idk though, am I giving too much leeway to him for that? I just think they were kind of outlandish pushes since they would do pretty much nothing to further a wolf's agenda.

On the topic of Bereft, I will take a look at him again. But if you think Ted is towny, you think the wagons were T/T yesterday, i guess. And then you had Bereft and Rondo who were both pushing Ted rather than Robyn... You think if they're both wolfing, it was just for show? Because if Ted is town, there shouldn't have been a preference for who wolves would rather push over, unless they thought that Robyn would make a strong comeback on D2 (which I guess would make sense).

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:11 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:36 am well now I’m sitting on Gira / ran / X yeah

Abby is just in the archetype of people I like to suspect [is the reality of it]
You're gonna have to sell me hard on the Ran scumread. And with more than just that "abysmal" was an out-of-place description.
Gira I went back and forth on earlier and figured at some point that I was just being uncharitable to him earlier in the game. I'd also like to hear a case on him.

Is it just that you think wolves have thread pull?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:15 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:49 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am And the flop on Robyn geez

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am Could it be that Mac was killed because he was wrong, not because he was right?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:36 am well now I’m sitting on Gira / ran / X yeah

Abby is just in the archetype of people I like to suspect [is the reality of it]
[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Just look at this. There is no universe town TSP comes in to this day and believes and says these things.
I just kinda think his pushes are so completely opposite to my reads and to the consensus that it's probably not agenda
He doesn't have a ton of thread influence so picking targets to push who are unlikely to become wagons seems to do nothing, imo
If we're going by the "not helpful to town" metric, maybe I could see it, but otherwise there's no agenda as far as I can tell.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:25 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:20 am wind my wonderful and precious friend

"not helpful to town" is literally what "agenda" IS

that is literally the wolf agenda! to do antitown things and muddy the waters to where wolves are town and town are wolves and anyone's behavior could be anything! if that's not "agenda" then what does agenda mean to you??
Agenda, to me, is when a wolf makes an active effort to push a town player that they think will actually gain traction as a wagon, not just to muddy the waters but to try to get their target voted out.

I could buy that w!TSP wants to see what sticks, but I legit think that none of his pushes so far sound remotely like they'd stick. None of them are even sowing paranoia for me, and I would expect a wolf to at least try to increase paranoia levels by writing up a case on their unlikely targets and trying to convince people to give those names another look. But I don't feel like TSP is trying to convince anyone of his reads. He's just giving them, and it seems to end there. Idk, maybe I'm just immune to whatever convincing he's done but I've seen no real push to make others believe his reads. Unless you count him saying that nobody has given a real towncase on Abbi, but that's kinda been objectively true, and it doesn't change my opinion.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:21 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:36 am Maybe not his scumreads, but he did make a serious push to protect and get people off of Bereft (and/or dizzy), and it was working, even before any of the robyn stuff happened. Here's the post again for reference:

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:05 pm Here’s the situation: not all is right. We’re about to limp into the stupidest looking bereft chop I’ve ever seen. It’s probably rand and there are somewhat good reasons not to do that. So then, who’s in this game who should know better? I promise I didn’t just immediately jump to the two voters on Bereft for the record, I think that looks slightly towny. Leetic seems to have lost a bit of the edge, can’t tell why. WWA is posting a lot but has no thread control nor have they attempted to wrest it. I won’t vote for Mac or dizzy day 1. Ted seems alright. Mac’s defending Gira. I won’t vote Rondo D1 for opposite reasons. Ran and Robyn are self resolving.
The two people he's pushing are the voters on Bereft, which he even lampshades directly and calls them towny(?!). The other wagon atp is dizzy with me and mac voting there iirc, and he blows that off as well.

The more I look here the more I am seeing tsp/bereft/dizzy. Which is very premature but. There's hella agenda.
I completely forgot about that lol, thanks for quoting it

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:22 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:37 am Agenda doesn't only have to be a push to actually get them voted out. Discrediting correct reads is also agenda.
Yeah, I didn't think I saw any discrediting from TSP but forgot about the Bereft thing so yeah, I understand your case now

Not sure how much I agree but at least I see where you're coming from

The Tapes, in spoiler

Spoiler: show

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:20 pm I have. Feelings about Robyn but. They are probably not helpful. Regardless we move on. Robyn if you can see this thread I hope you are well.

So.

Rondo, Bereft, TSP, Dizzy all look abysmal to me here. I would like anyone who strongly townreads any of these players to tell me why.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:46 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:22 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:20 pm I have. Feelings about Robyn but. They are probably not helpful. Regardless we move on. Robyn if you can see this thread I hope you are well.

So.

Rondo, Bereft, TSP, Dizzy all look abysmal to me here. I would like anyone who strongly townreads any of these players to tell me why.
I wrote updated thoughts about Rondo a few posts above, if you want my input
Noted. I disagree with robyn partnership being the main thrust of suspicion though, the main suspicion in my eyes is general wolfyness and lack of solving - that he hadn't and still hasn't Done anything in the game to help town beyond fluff and bluster and easy votes. I gave that a pass yesterday but one of my criteria for him was "he's charging at mac so let mac decide" and mac decided wolfy.

Regardless of his rep, Mac doesn't die if ALL his major suspicions are wrong and the four I listed were his suspects.

(Well three and Bereft, but he also scumread Bereft on first look and flipped around when he was scumreading Robyn, who godscumread Bereft, and we now know Robyn was town so.)

TSP also pinged mac's general scumdar, and before the whole mac robyn thing, we were going on bereft, and TSP came in trying to break that up with a gamestate read and a push on Abi which is... in my eyes weak and not good. There is a big part of me wanting to go Bereft -> TSP here.

And then there is Dizzy who is still just not playing the game but never got hard pressure for it except for me and mac, and now mac is dead.

I do not want to go tedxtr today.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:53 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:41 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:20 pm I have. Feelings about Robyn but. They are probably not helpful. Regardless we move on. Robyn if you can see this thread I hope you are well.

So.

Rondo, Bereft, TSP, Dizzy all look abysmal to me here. I would like anyone who strongly townreads any of these players to tell me why.
I think TSP is town and moreover I think TSP is out of place with the other three names
Out of place how?

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:49 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am And the flop on Robyn geez

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:27 am Could it be that Mac was killed because he was wrong, not because he was right?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:36 am well now I’m sitting on Gira / ran / X yeah

Abby is just in the archetype of people I like to suspect [is the reality of it]
[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Just look at this. There is no universe town TSP comes in to this day and believes and says these things.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:08 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:46 am
I feel like wolf!TSP would have better options to push than Abbi and me because neither of us were wagons or even scumread by anyone else at the point when TSP decided he thought we were scum. Idk though, am I giving too much leeway to him for that? I just think they were kind of outlandish pushes since they would do pretty much nothing to further a wolf's agenda.

On the topic of Bereft, I will take a look at him again. But if you think Ted is towny, you think the wagons were T/T yesterday, i guess. And then you had Bereft and Rondo who were both pushing Ted rather than Robyn... You think if they're both wolfing, it was just for show? Because if Ted is town, there shouldn't have been a preference for who wolves would rather push over, unless they thought that Robyn would make a strong comeback on D2 (which I guess would make sense).
Well, the level 0 read is that Bereft and TSP are wolves, Bereft was getting buried by Robyn and everyone generally, and then TSP came in to break up the momentum and say "the obvious wolf yeet is bad, it can't be that easy day 1, why don't we vote [one of the towniest players and a social player] instead, see they must be wolves because they DON'T have votes, let's play opposites land where wolfy people are towny and towny people with no pressure must be wolfy!"

I don't think Ted is towny exactly but I think he is less scummy than my main suspects and doesn't fit in many teams with them.

Saying "ted/robyn were the wagons yesterday" is i think a very inaccurate description of the day. Bereft, Dizzy and Gira were all serious wagons at points as well, arguably Rondo too. If you want to look at only the late day then it's more like "Robyn vs [resolving ted vs rondo]" and I could not hazard a guess where wolves would fall on that. I don't think Bereft/Rondo is out of the question. I think it's more important to look at the... how to explain it. The flow of the thread rather than the votals on paper when looking at wagonomics like that. Like Bereft only ever had, like, 3 actual votes on him but mid day it felt like that was a solid wagon that was very likely to go over and at eod people would pile on unless something big happened. That is what I mean by spiritual votes. Although mac disagreed with me on that. But still that's how I think.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:20 am wind my wonderful and precious friend

"not helpful to town" is literally what "agenda" IS

that is literally the wolf agenda! to do antitown things and muddy the waters to where wolves are town and town are wolves and anyone's behavior could be anything! if that's not "agenda" then what does agenda mean to you??

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:36 am Maybe not his scumreads, but he did make a serious push to protect and get people off of Bereft (and/or dizzy), and it was working, even before any of the robyn stuff happened. Here's the post again for reference:

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:05 pm Here’s the situation: not all is right. We’re about to limp into the stupidest looking bereft chop I’ve ever seen. It’s probably rand and there are somewhat good reasons not to do that. So then, who’s in this game who should know better? I promise I didn’t just immediately jump to the two voters on Bereft for the record, I think that looks slightly towny. Leetic seems to have lost a bit of the edge, can’t tell why. WWA is posting a lot but has no thread control nor have they attempted to wrest it. I won’t vote for Mac or dizzy day 1. Ted seems alright. Mac’s defending Gira. I won’t vote Rondo D1 for opposite reasons. Ran and Robyn are self resolving.
The two people he's pushing are the voters on Bereft, which he even lampshades directly and calls them towny(?!). The other wagon atp is dizzy with me and mac voting there iirc, and he blows that off as well.

The more I look here the more I am seeing tsp/bereft/dizzy. Which is very premature but. There's hella agenda.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:37 am Agenda doesn't only have to be a push to actually get them voted out. Discrediting correct reads is also agenda.

Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:17 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:08 am
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:42 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
where did it feel like i was "talking bs"?
The "revisionist history" bit trying to discredit me, trying to wagon Abi on TSP spew that in my eyes looks good for her, voting Made then going back to pyxxy and saying "we're going to miss twice in a row", then today you're saying "Bereft was generally townread and this suggests the game is upside down"

All of this is like. What.

I killed TSP.
Bereft was the scummiest player in the game by far.
TSP also tried to turn the game upside down and make Abi a vote.
If you're town we have... very different perspectives.
the revisionist history bit is a factual statement toward you trying to portray yourself as having played a greater role in killing scum than you actually did. this is very frequently done by scum although townies can have faulty memories too - people exaggerate the role they played in their own head. i made nothing of it and didn't push you for it.

you did fuckall to kill tsp and claiming otherwise is an outright fabrication

as for wagoning abigail, that is not a tactic i remotely adopt as scum - trying to kill a player who is generally being townread is unlikely to ever succeed and will only make you enemies (as it has here). if no scum were in danger yesterday, why do i need to push someone who is being townread?

no one was voting bereft, no one was pushing bereft, the most you did was trying to sell paranoia on bereft but no one was biting. if you want to argue bereft was a POE slot, show me where people were actually doubting bereft's alignment.

Regardless of whether or not my summary of bereft being townread is accurate, I think it is inarguable that an "unexpected" kill generally points to the gamestate being one where scum are not the ones receiving pressure.

[VOTE: Gira] aubergine

Yeah no none of this is true. I spent most of d2 killing TSP. Check the tapes. I was voting bereft, pyxxy was voting bereft, Jack was in agreement. Made townread him but I don't think anyone else did, feel free and correct me on that but he was just going under the radar yesterday.

Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:42 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
where did it feel like i was "talking bs"?

The "revisionist history" bit trying to discredit me, trying to wagon Abi on TSP spew that in my eyes looks good for her, voting Made then going back to pyxxy and saying "we're going to miss twice in a row", then today you're saying "Bereft was generally townread and this suggests the game is upside down"

All of this is like. What.

I killed TSP.
Bereft was the scummiest player in the game by far.
TSP also tried to turn the game upside down and make Abi a vote.
If you're town we have... very different perspectives.

I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.

the most affectionate friendly cat ever despite the perpetual grumpyface, hard to get pics because he spends the whole visit rolling around rubbing on people's legs and begging for pets

Good morning, happy Thanksgiving. I have done no work overnight but i have cute pics from taking care of neighbor's cat. Neither I nor Jack have any mech explanation for Bereft' death/unflip/whatever happened but. pretty sure that wasn't town.

Made wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:49 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:48 pm Is this really gonna end in a tie? Remember pyxxy, there is nothing honorable about not self-presing as town
Honestly, Pyxxy, don't self press. I think a tie might be better for thread state should both of us be town.

TIE META APPEARS

btw made you have been a pleasure in thread. sorry if i am wrong and/or we don't get to talk again.

[bernie sanders] I am once again asking for your support in yeeting dizzymade

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:45 pm As much as I hope we get a wolf here, I guess the biggest thing to remember is that things will go on tomorrow, and regardless of the result today town shouldn't get demotivated. Leave that as my legacy

This. Do not let the thread descend into bickering.

If jack and I die tonight - we both think dizzymade/bereft has at least one, potential for two.

The worlds I see where this is not the case are hellworlds like ted/leetic, or pyxxy/someone but I'm not sure who the someone would be... gira maybe.

Or I am pocketed by Abi but that is beyond my ability rn if so.

If pyxxy does go over and flip w then disregard and start fresh.

Yo I hate this breaking towards pyxxy.

So does the voice in my head. Would greatly prefer dizzymade.

[VOTE: Dizzymade] aubergine

Feels like I have to take responsibility for this. Still just the most likely wolf in my eyes from all game. There's a lot of "what if it's wrong" going on in my head but that's not really a healthy mindset.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:56 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:55 pm Jack and I both dislike tie meta and wish to slap it with an ancient irc trout.
What's tie meta

voting to intentionally cause ties because of some belief they are good for town

Jack and I both dislike tie meta and wish to slap it with an ancient irc trout.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:47 pm Like what makes that unpaired

Vibes

think that's about the limit of what I can say for him, he's around though

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