The Syndicate

Lol, the one time I don’t look at a flip for awhile the game ends. Good game and glad we could get a town win on TS!

I have to leave and won't be here for EoD, and I want to switch my vote. Tbh I'm not entirely convinced our PoE is correct and I want to re-evaluate my townreads but I do think we flip in Quin or Dubz today.

I think Dubz has been very agreeable, not pushing people strongly, and trying to look towny, while Quin has been withholding info and suspecting someone who is strongly townread. I think at this point Dubz has more of a gameplan as wolf than Quin. When I look at both of their behavior from the lens of "this person is trying to win the game as wolf, how are they accomplishing that?" I think Dubz would have made a bad call defending PSV but tried to be agreeable, share info, and save herself today by wanting to look towny. Quin would be a huge question mark who isn't really trying to get suspicion off him, is pushing Seanzie who most people townread, and who is still withholding his night action even though he knows everyone wants him to share it. Dubz just makes more sense as wolf between the two.

[VOTE: Dubz] aubergine

Dubz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:12 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:57 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:37 am Okay fine I will do my own vote tracking homework. There's an emoji I would use here if y'all weren't lacking in emoji selection.

I did read that D1 that falcon posted for v!Kate. I'm not seeing the disparity he's seeing...tone feels similar to me.

Still raising an eyebrow on Quin, I'm not convinced by Scotty's assertion that he'd never start the wagon there as a wolf, but I really need to see vote progression to decide so I'll work on that. I am thoroughly confused by the Sean sus. Scotty's vote hopping leans more town imo.

I would love to get reads on my SDN peeps but genny is too absent and I am horrible, terrible, no good, very bad at reading PSV the latter feels okay so far though

Overall feeling kinda lost which is typical for me when I don't know people

quin - bad
thun - mild nausea
falcon - meh to not great
pyxxy - throat tickle
genny - ???
lemon - exists?
Roxy - whomst?
Zenon - just arrived
PSV - tentatively alright
Scotty - decent
Sean - sailboats are fine
Kate - okay?
Dennis - okay

I am not comfy enough to call strong village on anyone which is hampering my usual solving methods
I got a ping on Dubz here reading back. If Dubz thought she was bad at reading PSV, I feel like I'd see that throughout her posts and her defense would look different and less sure PSV was town.
To be more clear with that - the problem is that she fooled me once a while back in a game until we got to LyLo and I lost in the thunderdome. Since then I've always had a low threshold for reading her wolfy. My PSV trigger is sensitive, but not specific. So I didn't expect to be wrong in a game where I strongly thought she was village.

Okay, that makes some sense.

Dubz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:58 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:36 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:54 pm Okay, let's do this.

There seems to be a collective PoE of Zenon/Quin/Dubz. I think this is a good PoE and we should likely create a wagon/CW from these three, but I do think that the upper PoE (Roxy, me, Scotty) should not be forgotten here. Not necessarily votes, but we should be pushed and questioned and scrutinized.

Some comments about the PoE:

Zenon - I agree with some of Thun's points about Zenon. In particular they do seem to have some townie energy about their role (even though they want a pass for claiming a powerful role, which does not fit the setup), and as an extension, some of the pride Zenon is showing about her wolf game tends to come more from town than scum, but the sticking point for me (aside from just PoE type arguments) is that Zenon is acting very differently towards my suspicion than she usually does as town (normally write me off as "you'll never learn, I'll get the last laugh when you see my flip" but she isn't doing that here at all).

Quin - Honestly... I uhh... kinda townread Quin the most out of the 3-person PoE. I don't think what they're doing is necessarily good for town, but if they're mafia... I also don't know what they're doing? I am fine with them being a wagon, but I will likely support Zenon or Dubz to have a CW. If someone in the upper PoE or higher becomes a wagon, that might change.

Dubz - defended PSV, and honestly I feel like hasn't gotten nearly enough scrutiny for it. I can't remember anything that Dubz did for night actions (I should ISO them but meh... I got stuff to do IRL today so this is gonna be my last well-thought out post for a while), and I am weirded out at how little attention they've gotten. Is there a reason to townread Dubz?

[VOTE: Dubz] aubergine
Honestly I think I might have written off Dubz too easily. I have the same 3 person PoE but nobody neatly fits as scum. I'm at guess level of confidence with my vote on Quin.

@Dubz can you claim exactly what your night actions were n1 and n2?
Already said - I failed my rolls both nights

What did you try to do?

Dubz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:37 am Okay fine I will do my own vote tracking homework. There's an emoji I would use here if y'all weren't lacking in emoji selection.

I did read that D1 that falcon posted for v!Kate. I'm not seeing the disparity he's seeing...tone feels similar to me.

Still raising an eyebrow on Quin, I'm not convinced by Scotty's assertion that he'd never start the wagon there as a wolf, but I really need to see vote progression to decide so I'll work on that. I am thoroughly confused by the Sean sus. Scotty's vote hopping leans more town imo.

I would love to get reads on my SDN peeps but genny is too absent and I am horrible, terrible, no good, very bad at reading PSV the latter feels okay so far though

Overall feeling kinda lost which is typical for me when I don't know people

quin - bad
thun - mild nausea
falcon - meh to not great
pyxxy - throat tickle
genny - ???
lemon - exists?
Roxy - whomst?
Zenon - just arrived
PSV - tentatively alright
Scotty - decent
Sean - sailboats are fine
Kate - okay?
Dennis - okay

I am not comfy enough to call strong village on anyone which is hampering my usual solving methods

I got a ping on Dubz here reading back. If Dubz thought she was bad at reading PSV, I feel like I'd see that throughout her posts and her defense would look different and less sure PSV was town.

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:24 pm I feel like I really should have more to say.

Honestly same. Apart from Zenon I haven't gotten any reads off today's content.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:07 pm
Zenon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:56 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:01 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:01 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:53 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:13 am
Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:57 pm

Well mainly because I'm not a wolf and it's fucking obvious
Explain how it's obvious you're not a wolf without falling back on the role you thought of.
Sure right okay i did this but I'll do it again.

A. I'm way too good of a wolf to sub into a game and coast like this. But lol wifom

B. No wolf behaves like I am. Wolfs need to survive especially down packmates and getting destroyed. I am good enough to do that but I'm ruffling fathers I am pissing Scotty off I'm not trying to make myself less of a target I don't value my life for the most part how is that Wolfy?

C. I was trying to clear the best player in this PL do you think that's Wolfy?
You also get a bit snippy when bad which is how this post is reading.

We went through this last game. People change up styles all the time. You claim you have changed yours, the only thing I note is less meme's (using the sippy cup/pouch one mostly).
You claim you were trying to clear Kate but let's get real she had already cleared herself.
Hmmm
I think Kate would only have cleared herself by end of d1 from the wolf perspective, since she had been pushing genny. So this is interesting.
Well Roxy is a wolf so.
What do you make of Roxy’s posts starting Day 3, where she spends an inordinate amount of time making a case on lemonfairy being bad before I remind her that wolves killed lemonfairy?

Do you think she faked that dumbtell? I don’t. And the only way she’s still wolf if she didn’t fake that is if she has no idea what’s going on in her wolf chat and has no agency regarding NKs

I don't think she faked it either.

I lean town on Zenon's emotion. My vote today is between Quin and Dubz and from what I've seen I think Dubz looks a little bit better. PSV mentioning Dubz so Dubz would back her up on genny's afk not being AI I think looked slightly good for Dubz. I do wish both Quin and Dubz would be more transparent with their night actions since I think mech could be very useful in solving this game.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:54 pm Okay, let's do this.

There seems to be a collective PoE of Zenon/Quin/Dubz. I think this is a good PoE and we should likely create a wagon/CW from these three, but I do think that the upper PoE (Roxy, me, Scotty) should not be forgotten here. Not necessarily votes, but we should be pushed and questioned and scrutinized.

Some comments about the PoE:

Zenon - I agree with some of Thun's points about Zenon. In particular they do seem to have some townie energy about their role (even though they want a pass for claiming a powerful role, which does not fit the setup), and as an extension, some of the pride Zenon is showing about her wolf game tends to come more from town than scum, but the sticking point for me (aside from just PoE type arguments) is that Zenon is acting very differently towards my suspicion than she usually does as town (normally write me off as "you'll never learn, I'll get the last laugh when you see my flip" but she isn't doing that here at all).

Quin - Honestly... I uhh... kinda townread Quin the most out of the 3-person PoE. I don't think what they're doing is necessarily good for town, but if they're mafia... I also don't know what they're doing? I am fine with them being a wagon, but I will likely support Zenon or Dubz to have a CW. If someone in the upper PoE or higher becomes a wagon, that might change.

Dubz - defended PSV, and honestly I feel like hasn't gotten nearly enough scrutiny for it. I can't remember anything that Dubz did for night actions (I should ISO them but meh... I got stuff to do IRL today so this is gonna be my last well-thought out post for a while), and I am weirded out at how little attention they've gotten. Is there a reason to townread Dubz?

[VOTE: Dubz] aubergine

Honestly I think I might have written off Dubz too easily. I have the same 3 person PoE but nobody neatly fits as scum. I'm at guess level of confidence with my vote on Quin.

@Dubz can you claim exactly what your night actions were n1 and n2?

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:39 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:11 am [VOTE: Quin] aubergine

I'd rather go here than Zenon today. Zenon had a couple town pings for her like being openly proud of her cool ability and her reaction to me claiming the genny shot being that she was right on me. Meanwhile I had a ping on Quin only really defending himself from mechanical accusations like him lying about not doing anything and for saying Seanzie's interpretation of Quin not doing anything never comes from town.
i was not defending myself against mechanical accusations. i was defending myself against a bad-faith interpretation of a post i made.

i answered your question as to why seanzie's interpretation of 'zilch' was shit already.

if there's two scum left, it's both of you.

I'm green checked and shot a wolf. I'm not convinced this is a real thought.

Dubz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:38 am Okay and thun revealed this prior to Zenon saying anything about it, right? Because I don't remember seeing Zenon talk about what she did until recently.

So that would have been plenty of time to come up with something as cover

She said this before I claimed the info:

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:58 pm I made the coolest ability ever off my art and than rolled and like half failed it

But didn't say what she actually did until after.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:50 am I tried to to "comrade" with my "commuinst mouse" piece. It would have let me target two people and determine if they have the same or diff alignments. That was a miss. I did manage to pull off "double rainbow" though, with my "rainbow cloud" piece, which allowed me to target Falcon and give them a 2nd roll if they fail for each of their art rolls moving forward.

Reading this, it's possible Falcon never knew about it since he never failed the first roll. @falcon45ca did you ever fail a roll?

For anyone voting Seanzie: Roxy saw Seanzie visit me and Genny. Seanzie claimed he tried a parity cop check night 1 so it checks out that he did one night 2 and the targets make sense for it.

Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:02 pm
Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:16 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:56 pm [VOTE: Zenon] aubergine
Actively throwing
Why?
Well mainly because I'm not a wolf and it's fucking obvious

Explain how it's obvious you're not a wolf without falling back on the role you thought of.

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine

I'd rather go here than Zenon today. Zenon had a couple town pings for her like being openly proud of her cool ability and her reaction to me claiming the genny shot being that she was right on me. Meanwhile I had a ping on Quin only really defending himself from mechanical accusations like him lying about not doing anything and for saying Seanzie's interpretation of Quin not doing anything never comes from town.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:48 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:45 pm Current rainbow:

Dennis
pyxxy
Seanzie
Thunal

Roxy
Falcon

Dubz
Quin
Zenon
Why is Pyxxy so high?

I would move Thun and Falcon up, otherwise mostly fine with this list (aside from Pyxxy's placement). You'd go probably right above Roxy (below the moved up Falcon). Pyxxy would probably be just below Roxy.

Seconding Pyxxy being too high - he shouldn't be, and I'm not clearing him because of PSV's treatment of him or him being the counterwagon. He's not in my immediate PoE but I don't strongly townread him.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:05 pm Quin's entrance was weird and Creature has been basically nonexistent.
I'm also wondering if this is typical Scotty we're seeing? He sounds a little... Unhinged I guess is the word I would use. That isn't what I saw from him in the only other game I played with him.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:09 pm [VOTE: Quin ] aubergine
At least for now

I think PSV could very well have jumped on Quin's wagon if they were w/w for bus cred, but her reasoning that Quin's entrance was weird makes me hesitate because it makes me think she might have been afraid to actually call Quin wolfy.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:44 am not a shock but[VOTE: seanzie] aubergine

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:49 am like i understand he's going for a misguided interpretation that by 'zilch' i meant i sat on my ass and watched time pass me by but there's no way that in a game where your ability to actually do shit is judged by the roll of a die that interpretation can never come from town.

@Quin why could that interpretation never come from town?

Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:44 pm (i googled it and it still doesnt make sense)

It would generally be seen as a positive/towny thing but he also talked about how Zenon is similar to her scum game so I'm a bit confused too.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:29 am this question isn't just for seanzie but for everyone to consider:

let's say im bad and am lying. i have a piece of art that i can (attempt to) do practically anything with, with my night action being only limited by my imagination. in this case, why on earth would i choose my lie to be "i didn't try to do anything"?

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:30 am the reality is that i did 'zilch' because i got a bad roll.

goodnight

I was looking back and saw a Quin ping here. Afaik Seanzie was pushing that Quin doing nothing was anti-town or that Quin doing nothing looks bad for him, not necessarily that he was lying about doing nothing. Sean also mentioned that Quin's threadplay was meh to wolfy but Quin didn't respond to that. This gives me the idea that Quin is a wolf that actually failed his roll.

I will eat a sock if these people are mafia:
Dennis
Scotty
Seanzie

Somewhat confident towns:
Falcon
Pyxxy

The rest (no order):
Roxy
Quin
Dubz
Zenon

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:26 pm Ok I have a green check on Dennis

Congrats Dennis and also sorry

Nice, I believe it and that's pretty useful.

Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:58 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:20 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:47 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:24 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:20 am I think Falcon's cop check on Kate was extremely protown to the point where I have a hard time believing mafia would do it. Think about it, Kate was suspecting genny and is someone with a reputation for having good reads. Why would a mafia surrender thread control to Kate with the cop check? Falcon could have claimed anything with a visit to Kate, and there are a whole lot of things he could have claimed that didn't confirm Kate as town.
I agree with this. The only flipside I am considering is what someone else suggested (can't remember who) that Falcon COULD have done something like poisoned Kate. Then in the moment seeing that Kate was watched, decided to claim a cop check thinking that Kate was going to die anyways (even though also inadvertently giving Kate a lot of threadpull). However, I would guess it is more likely that scum decided to day-action kill Kate while/after she singlehandedly built a PSV wagon yesterday to prevent people from night-action protecting her.
If he did in fact poison Kate then why would he ever say anything about Kate to begin with? Knowing a poison was used?
I outed that he visited Kate so he had to claim some action on Kate. Same with Zenon.

@Zenon what was the cool ability you tried to use n1?
Revealing probably gets me killed but

The way my ability works is its a hybrid doc/cop

The doc only works on town. If the player is mafia I kill them but also die.

But that only works if I roll high enough so on low rolls which is all I've gotten so far I am ostensibly just a normal doctor

I want to townlean this. I feel like you getting excited about a cool ability you made that would only benefit town to use would be a somewhat hard to think of play as mafia.

I don't have a scumread at this point. There could be only one and max 2 more so having a lot of town pings makes sense at this stage no matter who it is.

PSV spew:

Spoiler: show

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:05 pm
I don't think I've seen anything ai from Dubz. Slight town lean on Dennis thus far. Never seen him as scum tho

Slight town points for Dennis imo for this “I’m going to townlean Dennis but also I’m not going to commit to that”

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:05 pm Quin's entrance was weird and Creature has been basically nonexistent.
I'm also wondering if this is typical Scotty we're seeing? He sounds a little... Unhinged I guess is the word I would use. That isn't what I saw from him in the only other game I played with him.

Town points to Scotty. I think if PSV and Scotty were partners, she either wouldn’t make this observation or would call it wolfy for him. This feels like PSV wanting to shade but not actually push a loud townie.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:09 pm [VOTE: Quin ] aubergine
At least for now

Translation from wolf speak to English: “I want to vote Quin but I also want to give myself a lot of room to get off without people questioning it.” There’s a hedginess that makes me lean Quin town from this and the w/w version of these posts would involve PSV going harder on Quin.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:56 pm @Scotty Is the personal reason you think Seanzie is town? I'm scanning his ISO and he feels very similar to scum!Seanzie I played with recently.

This could go either way.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm @Porscha what made you interested in Seanzie?
I hesitate to go Creature because even this is more active than he was in the one game I played with him frankly

Angling to vote Seanzie over Creature and tries to get a case on him from Porscha. Slight town points for Seanzie.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:27 pm My eyes are on Scotty after that EOD and Seanzie since he turned into the Creature CW.

Very small town points for Seanzie since I think if they’re w/w PSV would find a content reason to go after Seanzie.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:05 pm
Hello.
Are you caught up?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:11 pm
Are you planning on catching up or just jumping in to real-time?

Slight wolf points for Zenon from these two posts. PSV seems concerned with getting Zenon to make content.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:54 pm
I actually think Seanzie is more sus. Scotty was just acting weird with the vote flip flopping yesterday.

Slight + to Scotty. PSV stopped short of calling Scotty wolfy just like on d1 and I think that comes from her wanting to discredit Scotty but being scared of actually pushing him.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:08 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:05 am
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:27 pm My eyes are on Scotty after that EOD and Seanzie since he turned into the Creature CW.
No. Nothing exactly nothing about "turning into" a CW actually suggests something about my alignment.

What movement suggests this? Explain in detail please.
I have never explained anything in detail, but:
It feels like votes cascaded to creature after they started getting on you. At least in my memory.

I think if this were w/w, PSV would have content reasons to sus Sean. The fact she doesn’t is a good look for him.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:42 pm
Legitimately? I don't know, and I'm hoping praying for clarity works.
GTH I'd lean town.

Translation: “I’m leaving the door open to suspect Scotty if the thread turns on him but if I did it now that would make me look bad.”

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:44 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:36 am
I wasn't there for EoD, so I don't know the vote orders, but why would you describe me as turning into the Creature CW if this is true? What you describe would be the opposite.
Woops. Yes, you're correct.

But yet, no change on her Seanzie read after this.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:21 pm Hmm
[VOTE: pyxxy ] aubergine

This was when Lemonfairy was getting a lot of suspicion. I don’t think PSV would attract that kind of attention to a partner.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:26 pm
I'm not going to tell you not to follow your gut, but I will say genny is commonly miselimmed because lowposting is just... Genny. Town genny gets voted often because her activity is low and content can be hard to decipher (no shade, just a statement). So unless she is well paired with other scum or says outright scummy things, it's more of a coin flip imo and I don't have good luck with rng.
Like, there is nothing here to distinguish genny's aff one way or the other. She's just gennying around.
Idk. @Dubz you've played with genny a lot, too. Agree? Disagree?

Slight town points to Dubz for PSV wanting her to back her up on defending genny. This sort of backing up someone often comes from a wolf wanting a townie to validate their opinion.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:45 pm
Hmm. I will consider it.

Slight town points to pyxxy.
Left off at #706

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:20 pm
Me. I oppose it and have said so multiple times.
I dislike voting out people who have barely been here to begin with but with genny it is proven to be a total gamble and I'd much prefer continuing to pressure pyxxy, Seanzie (somewhat, I guess, he baffles me), and Thunal.

There’s just this big hole from PSV of not suspecting Seanzie off his content. PSV wasn’t only not trying to figure out Seanzie, she wasn’t really pretending to figure out Seanzie either. I think it’s towny for Seanzie and I think if they were w/w their distancing would look a lot more like engaging directly and suspecting Seanzie off things he said.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:05 pm
Wait, you have no role?

Slight + points for pyxxy.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:12 pm
Mmmmmmm I think you're lying.

PSV was easily pushing pyxxy harder than anyone else in the game, and I wonder if she did actually think pyxxy was lying here. My tinfoil brain says this could be distancing, but I’m not going to explore that right now.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:43 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:27 pm
@Kate @potentialsheltervet @Quin @Scotty

anyone else?
Why are you voting me? For funs?

Slight town points for Seanzie. I think the w/w version of this post would lean into distancing more.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:02 pm @Dennis why are you still on Thunal?

Noted and I think this could go either way.

I think this looks best for Seanzie and Scotty. My tinfoil brain says that pyxxy distancing *could* have happened but right now I don't think it's particularly likely. I don't think PSV interacted with anyone in a conclusively w/w way other than genny, but Dennis and Zenon are both plausible teammates.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:28 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:20 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:47 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:24 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:20 am I think Falcon's cop check on Kate was extremely protown to the point where I have a hard time believing mafia would do it. Think about it, Kate was suspecting genny and is someone with a reputation for having good reads. Why would a mafia surrender thread control to Kate with the cop check? Falcon could have claimed anything with a visit to Kate, and there are a whole lot of things he could have claimed that didn't confirm Kate as town.
I agree with this. The only flipside I am considering is what someone else suggested (can't remember who) that Falcon COULD have done something like poisoned Kate. Then in the moment seeing that Kate was watched, decided to claim a cop check thinking that Kate was going to die anyways (even though also inadvertently giving Kate a lot of threadpull). However, I would guess it is more likely that scum decided to day-action kill Kate while/after she singlehandedly built a PSV wagon yesterday to prevent people from night-action protecting her.
If he did in fact poison Kate then why would he ever say anything about Kate to begin with? Knowing a poison was used?
I outed that he visited Kate so he had to claim some action on Kate. Same with Zenon.

@Zenon what was the cool ability you tried to use n1?

this is copied from my reads list about Zenon:

"One other thing is you said you protected Kate in the night, how did falcon get the green check if she was protected?"

Afaik whether Kate was protected or not doesn't interfere with the alignment check results. Standard protection is just protection from NKs, other roles can still target Kate.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:23 pm N 1 I failed to track Thunal bc my roll was too small so all I was told was that Thunal was a player in the game.

N 2 I successfully tracked Seanzie and seen he visited Thunal and Genny.

I unsuccessfully tried to give someone a posting restriction but it failed. (would have been funny to me)

I also received a gift which I will not tell what it is.

On a side note, your n1 feedback is such a Nanook response lol.

After I said I shot Genny, you said "this tracks." I assumed you had info that confirmed that, did you?

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:33 pm
Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:31 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:25 pm Holy hell.

Ok I’m just gonna come out with it

I have a lie detector and have been trying and failing to get you to say yes or no statements and you’re so skillfully keeping your answers vague enough that I can’t lie detect you.

So for the effort of exercise:

Are you a wolf? Yes or no.

If you continue to beat around the bush I will auto vote you for the rest of the day
No
Thank you kindly!

So I now have declarative statements from Dennis, Zenon and Seanzie.

Anyone else feel like someone should be added to the pool? Currently looking to test Zenon

Dubz? I think a check on her could be useful, or at least seeing what she'll do knowing your ability.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:47 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:24 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:20 am I think Falcon's cop check on Kate was extremely protown to the point where I have a hard time believing mafia would do it. Think about it, Kate was suspecting genny and is someone with a reputation for having good reads. Why would a mafia surrender thread control to Kate with the cop check? Falcon could have claimed anything with a visit to Kate, and there are a whole lot of things he could have claimed that didn't confirm Kate as town.
I agree with this. The only flipside I am considering is what someone else suggested (can't remember who) that Falcon COULD have done something like poisoned Kate. Then in the moment seeing that Kate was watched, decided to claim a cop check thinking that Kate was going to die anyways (even though also inadvertently giving Kate a lot of threadpull). However, I would guess it is more likely that scum decided to day-action kill Kate while/after she singlehandedly built a PSV wagon yesterday to prevent people from night-action protecting her.
If he did in fact poison Kate then why would he ever say anything about Kate to begin with? Knowing a poison was used?

I outed that he visited Kate so he had to claim some action on Kate. Same with Zenon.

@Zenon what was the cool ability you tried to use n1?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:37 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:20 am I think Falcon's cop check on Kate was extremely protown to the point where I have a hard time believing mafia would do it. Think about it, Kate was suspecting genny and is someone with a reputation for having good reads. Why would a mafia surrender thread control to Kate with the cop check? Falcon could have claimed anything with a visit to Kate, and there are a whole lot of things he could have claimed that didn't confirm Kate as town.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:24 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:20 am I think Falcon's cop check on Kate was extremely protown to the point where I have a hard time believing mafia would do it. Think about it, Kate was suspecting genny and is someone with a reputation for having good reads. Why would a mafia surrender thread control to Kate with the cop check? Falcon could have claimed anything with a visit to Kate, and there are a whole lot of things he could have claimed that didn't confirm Kate as town.
I agree with this. The only flipside I am considering is what someone else suggested (can't remember who) that Falcon COULD have done something like poisoned Kate. Then in the moment seeing that Kate was watched, decided to claim a cop check thinking that Kate was going to die anyways (even though also inadvertently giving Kate a lot of threadpull). However, I would guess it is more likely that scum decided to day-action kill Kate while/after she singlehandedly built a PSV wagon yesterday to prevent people from night-action protecting her.
Kate's sus on Genny originates from my sus on Genny. There's no way I poison Kate and give her a green check, I woulda straight up shot her if I was Maf

There's one thing that makes me think of poison: I said I wanted to shoot Genny specifically during the night phase, but I got two roll thresholds. If I rolled lower than the amount to shoot Genny directly but not too low, my action would be a poison that killed her at EoD3.

I'm currently doing a PSV spew analysis but I wanted to pop in before I'm done and say that I really don't think Seanzie is mafia and I'll veto any wagon attempts on him today. In addition to the reasons I gave earlier that his tunnel on me and insistence he was a bad d1 CW was completely in his town meta, PSV spew looks great for him. PSV basically just threw Seanzie in the PoE because he was a counterwagon while not even pretending to solve him from content. It completely fits PSV not finding good reasons to actually sus town!Seanzie but wanting to kill him if the opportunity came up.

I think Falcon's cop check on Kate was extremely protown to the point where I have a hard time believing mafia would do it. Think about it, Kate was suspecting genny and is someone with a reputation for having good reads. Why would a mafia surrender thread control to Kate with the cop check? Falcon could have claimed anything with a visit to Kate, and there are a whole lot of things he could have claimed that didn't confirm Kate as town.

Dubz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:00 am
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:55 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:52 pm "Files too large"

They're screenshots! How can they be too large!

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Okay I give up on advice for now lol. When the Genny/Creature wagons were tied with 3 votes each d1, who was on them?
genny - Scotty, Kate, Creature
Creature - pyxxy, Dubz, thunal

Thanks, and glad you finally got it working on the 500th try!

Dubz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:52 pm "Files too large"

They're screenshots! How can they be too large!

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Okay I give up on advice for now lol. When the Genny/Creature wagons were tied with 3 votes each d1, who was on them?

Dubz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:41 pm Day 1 Votes

Brain fart, forgot that you can't just...stick the link in the reply box lol this should work

Access denied lol. Maybe just take screenshots of it?

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:38 pm Ok yeah there does seem to be 17 players so that would mean 4 mafia which is only slightly wolf sided but because of willy nilly roles that can be active, I would say this whole setup has the potential to be townsided

Wait, I just counted 16 lol.

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:17 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:06 pm I don't actually think it's Dubz. If it were Dubz, I feel like the whole mafia gameplan would just be to lose. Kate scumread both PSV and Genny and had influence, so even if I didn't shoot Genny I think she would have been eliminated fairly soon and I think Dubz would know this. Then Dubz looks bad and has no plan to go deep, and even if there's a fourth mafia it would be really hard for them to come back.

Btw we started with 17 so a fourth mafia is plausible. I think it's either 3 maf and a 3p or 4 maf.
But dubz wasn't defending genny (I think). She could have turned on her today and been in an okay spot. Also sorry for planting my vote on you and promptly ghosting thread

Np, it's all part of the game. Dubz pretty much said genny was NAI and made a light "gennnnnyyyyyyyy Are you howling?" post when she returned. It's possible w!Dubz would turn on genny yes, but if PSV defended genny and Dubz defended PSV and genny continued lowposting I don't think bussing a low poster really matters for cred especially since Dubz called genny's activity NAI before.

Dubz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:20 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:08 pm @Dubz can you share your d1 vote tracking sheet?
Yes but I haven't figured out the best way to do that...apparently can't attach pdf's lol

Is linking to a google doc legal here? Or is there a good way to embed a spreadsheet?

I don't think it is since it's editable. You can link to something that isn't editable like a pdf or just take pictures.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:34 pm WOW.

A) 2 mafia down, in a 15 player game that probably means there’s only 1 more, right? assuming there’s no 3p’s as nook ‘doesn’t like to party’

B) why did Kate die? Ability from psv to kill one of her voters or was Kate poisoned or something?

If the latter, makes me wonder if someone like falcon didn’t green check her and actually did something nefarious.

C) I wasn’t actually feeling the psv yeet and only tried to switch to get art. Didn’t make it in time

The poison thing is a tinfoil I have. Day actions are possible, but it's also possible one of Zenon or Falcon actually poisoned Kate night 1 instead of doing what they claimed.

@Dubz can you share your d1 vote tracking sheet?

I don't actually think it's Dubz. If it were Dubz, I feel like the whole mafia gameplan would just be to lose. Kate scumread both PSV and Genny and had influence, so even if I didn't shoot Genny I think she would have been eliminated fairly soon and I think Dubz would know this. Then Dubz looks bad and has no plan to go deep, and even if there's a fourth mafia it would be really hard for them to come back.

Btw we started with 17 so a fourth mafia is plausible. I think it's either 3 maf and a 3p or 4 maf.

I’m not going to be online for a bit but I had to pop in to say I shot Genny!

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:54 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:26 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:28 pm I don't really get the case on PSV (and lowkey want to vote Thunal for it)
Ehhh idk, I don't hate thunal for the case. She's wrong but I don't think she's wolfy for it, there were reasonable thoughts there.
idk, to me, the ISO looked like Thunal was trying scumreading PSV more than trying to townread PSV, putting things that I see as NAI as slightly wolfy and the things I see as towny as "slightly good" - I realize this could be just a clash in reads though

I didn't like the following reasons Thunal gave for scumreading PSV (which I assume are the main reasons for the PSV scumread based on how the post was formatted):
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:19 pm This pings me. Why am I here? There's no followup or reasoning on me from when PSV townleaned me other than me not being there which was completely NAI. I also feel like PSV's Seanzie read is lazy. Like, Sean had a lot of readable content yesterday and today but there's a lack of PSV actually analyzing that content.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:19 pm How to Make Player Salad: A Guide

Player Salad is the signature dish of The Syndicate. Those of you who have been following this tournament closely may have seen one of our head chefs, JaggedJimmyJay, teach the recipe to his fellow townies in Game 6. Player Salad is a dish which can sometimes confound people, but it's really quite simple. The basic recipe is this: "I could lynch Player X, Y, or Z. Maybe W." I am not one to rigorously argue for "mafia tells", but for whatever reason this one has an unusually high success rate. I suppose the above-mentioned configuration suggests that the player lacks conviction, and simultaneously feels a need to compensate for that lack of conviction by lumping several players together in an indistinguishable blend of suspicion: A salad, if you will. I will not say that it is 100% accurate or foolproof, but I give it some weight.
the first one is still fine - it's not super convincing but I can buy it coming from town
the second quote feels pretty fake and like it was just added to increase post volume (and it's probably also a copypasta)

player salad is also a very general reason to scumread someone

It's a copypasta, I was trying to be funny when I saw that player salad. It was a minor ping and not a main reason I scumread PSV.

From what I saw in my ISO I'm not convinced pyxxy is a wolf. I feel a lot of doubt but I'll be staying on PSV.

I'll post what I have on pyxxy, I was doing his ISO but got interrupted:

pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:12 pm I'm also down to town Dennis

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:46 pm [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:25 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:51 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:46 pm [VOTE: Creature] aubergine
Hi pyxxy why did you say you're "fine with town dennis" earlier?
pretty straightforward sentence that was if I do say so myself

I'm fine with you being widely townread, I think either we found you as town super quick and that's a good thing or scum tried to let you be town and now you're stuck being town until you get nk'd

don't forget to have fun!

Not really any reasoning in his early posts before he explained the Creature sus.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:26 pm
as in

I literally could not believe it was that simple of a case last time

I am trying to do a better job of not playing 4d chess when I don't have to

ez early vote with little consequence and if he does flip scum later I'll look great

and if he doesn't who would really blame me

This post still pings me. I figure that he’s being genuine about the focus on how he’ll look not being entirely serious, but I still don’t like the thought process behind it. It feels very shallow.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:38 pm hi sorry I forgot about this game, multitabling by accident rn

I'll catch up later today since I see that the deadline is tomorrow

I actually think this disproves the “weird scum role that doesn’t get powers from art” tinfoil. If he got a cool and interesting role I think he wouldn’t forget about the game. I don’t think it means he’s not scum though, I have seen scum forget about games before.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:09 pm
Hello! Nice to meet you

I'll be catching up shortly but this is a reply/ping so you've earned first dibs.

I play like this. It's NAI. I think it's funny to do things like this where I'm clearly concerned about how I look in a manner that is overt because it's a stereotype that wolves are the only ones who care about how they look.

If I really cared, you would never know

Also........mech

I’m inclined to believe that post was not completely serious because of this and that he thinks it’s NAI.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:33 pm
oh woops, I meant that reading through the NKA, I agree with Seanzie that Porscha dying is likely bc scum found her as obvtown

I'm less concerned about figuring out exactly "who knew her" as I gotta assume any scum team is large enough to have 1+

it's info best stored for later if/when we flip a few people that we don't think would have clapped Porscha N1

Something unexpected came up and I don't think I'll be able to do much before EoD.

I'm not actually sold on PSV anymore and I'm currently ISOing pyxxy to see if I want to go there. One thing that I thought of about the ping that PSV stuck me in her PoE was that if she were a wolf, she might have been *more* consistent to try to telegraph her change on me from townlean to PoE instead of just sticking me there.

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:20 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:17 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:14 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:11 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:08 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:37 pm ...nah this ain't wolf!PSV

@Kate @Thunal33 y'all should reconsider
Let’s do pyxxy instead!

I don’t believe his claim that his art doesn’t do anything

[VOTE: pyxxy] aubergine
Scotty. Please, let's do psv.
Can you summarize your reasons on PSV? Because although I have my own pings on PSV, I don't think the couple you said itt specifically her defense of Lemon and her posts being fluff (which I think just isn't true) are convincing. I want to know if you found anything else.

Also, can you explain why you have me so high in your reads?
Shes also blindly defending a low poster based on information which is in her own word, nai. Said low poster popped in today and said a few words and disappeared again. Genny is hiding. Psv is trying to defend. If thwy aren't baddies they're masons imo which there are none of.

Also as I pointed out her suspicions don't remain consistent and she got a lot of subtle throwing names in there posts, that I usually look for.
Also, vibes. Have you played with her before? Granted I've only played with her a handful of times but she's playing exactly like she did in our last game and I kept moving off her bc I didn't trust my gut. I believe a civ psv would have defended when she thought she was getting miseliminated which this psv did not do.

I played with her once when I was mafia and she was town. She was fairly uninvolved but had reasonable thoughts when she popped up and bounced her thoughts off others. She got mislimed that game and spent her last moments finding reads while defending herself a little bit. I think the state of these games are different enough that it's hard to get a definitive meta read, but I do think her reaction to being mislimed is different than I would expect from last game.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:18 pm [VOTE: thun] aubergine

Seriously? What about my posts made you actually think I was mafia?

I will be tilted if I get mislimed today because I really think I've done a lot to show myself as town.

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:11 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:08 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:37 pm ...nah this ain't wolf!PSV

@Kate @Thunal33 y'all should reconsider
Let’s do pyxxy instead!

I don’t believe his claim that his art doesn’t do anything

[VOTE: pyxxy] aubergine
Scotty. Please, let's do psv.

Can you summarize your reasons on PSV? Because although I have my own pings on PSV, I don't think the couple you said itt specifically her defense of Lemon and her posts being fluff (which I think just isn't true) are convincing. I want to know if you found anything else.

Also, can you explain why you have me so high in your reads?

Zenon ISO:

Zenon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:58 pm I made the coolest ability ever off my art and than rolled and like half failed it

“Coolest ability ever” which includes a protect on peeked town Kate based on what Zenon claimed later. I lean town on this.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:26 am I think it's Dennis more than Thunal though

Pretty detached snap takes so far.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:21 am
Oh right I protected Kate last night which like isn't exactly how my ability is supposed to work but I rolled low

Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:33 pm
I don't really have one but I do note that Dennis' flip into you happened right after you started to pick up a lot of pressure in thread from other people... although you haven't really received many votes off of that pressure ig soooo

The purpose of me asking this question is that I thought if Zenon blindly townread me it would be wolfy for her. I think her response looks decent.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:27 pm
She's wolf Vote: Lemon

Very surface-level reasoning (that Lemon hadn’t omgused anyone) but I don’t think that’s wolfy for Zenon.

Zenon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:10 pm
I've found you correctly 2 games in a row since establishing this meta

I townlean this self-confidence in Zenon’s tell.

Zenon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:20 am
Lemon Town lol

I think this quick pivot actually looks decent for Zenon specifically.
Conclusion: I townlean Zenon.

Dubz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:49 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:43 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:37 pm ...nah this ain't wolf!PSV

@Kate @Thunal33 y'all should reconsider

Would you prefer you
No pls, I've never been misyoten in an off-SDN game and I'm not about to end that streak!

I'm serious though. I've seen wolf!PSV under pressure and I've seen village!PSV under pressure and this is not the former.

If nothing else this gives me better feelings about you.

I'll get off PSV if I get a more confident wolf read. I'm not tunneled or locked on her, I'd say I'm at like 50-60% chance PSV flips wolf.

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