The Syndicate

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:14 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:13 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:05 pm GHs woofers. I'll never trust you again Sabi <3

was nice playing with you

<3 ty hope we can play again some time

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:05 pm GHs woofers. I'll never trust you again Sabi <3

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:26 pm thats true i guess i need to study up on sabi and see if people exaggerated their low range

we can agree tsp is a wolf though yeah?

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:21 pm also her not pushing HK was half of what I Don't like from her yesterday, she had no real wolf reads and just seemed lost, not in a towny way imo

they*

but yeah thats true idk maybe im sheeping the early consensus too much

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:19 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:17 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:16 pm are we assuming both scum have just sat back and done nothing but defend town for 3 days?

wdym defend town lol, HK sure but she did push Santy for like the entire game for bad reasons, Risiinq too

they did have lackluster reasoning behind suspecting santy but is that not something we can expect out of v!sabi? I have no experience with them.

They were against the jack elim. they were against the hk elim

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:17 pm hk flipping V isn't damning for u esooa but it's damning for neon imo

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:16 pm are we assuming both scum have just sat back and done nothing but defend town for 3 days?

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:09 pm i assume neon is outed at this point so it's just determining if it's tsp who esooa as the third wolf and i'm leaning tsp. Need to look at early interactions with wilgz and mac

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:21 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:06 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:13 am NONE OF THIS IS SUPPORTED BY ANYTHING I LOOKED FOR BECAUSE I LOOKED FOR NOTHING

current votes:

Santy: neon, porscha, sabi, lily
HK: santy, esooa, risiing
risiinq: HK

does it make MORE sense if two wolves are on me saying "hk is wolf and even if not he has to die" or does it make LESS sense?

I think the longer the game goes the more I can't be a wolf, if I don't go over here today and Santy is town I expect the dialog tomorrow to be "HK was protected, kill him then kill on the santy wagon" but like I've shown today that I'm not someone worth protecting. I haven't participated, haven't solved, haven't done much of anything at all.

Partially b/c I'm lazy and bad, partially because I scored a PS5, and partially because it stops the narrative of "HK was protected" because again, haven't done shit to protect, there's no reason. The wolf team, if I am a wolf, should have been busing me from D2 onward, even D1 after my outburst.

which would indicate to me that either Santy is a hit OR Santy is the "protect risiinq" wagon.

Now if Santy is NOT a hit I think it's more likely that risiinq IS a hit AND ALSO that there's a wolf on the Santy wagon, of which Sabi makes the least sense (watch it be sabi), then Porscha, then probs a tossup between neon/lily, neither of which I really have a read on.

If Santy IS a hit I'm torn. On the one hand having a wolf there makes sense, and it might be Neon then. But having a wolf be off wagon is also fine here as the "off wagon" is the policy chop that's been hanging on for days now.

UGH. I don't think you can say anything concrete if Santy is a hit. I think you can if Santy isn't a hit.

If Santy is a hit I do not think there are two wolves on my wagon. Which I said above.

game is hard, mafia is dumb, etc etc

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:07 am why you don't shut down sabi if they are town:

1. Nobody is listening to Sabi. They file Sabi away into a "town but" box and forget about them until it's needed to pull them out of it.
Sabi has the most posts of anyone in the thread and honestly the least amount of pull outside of me and TSP. Nobody is really following Sabis pushes, unless they are consensus, and nobody for sure is following their defenses. See Jack going over and me leading today.

2. Sabi is highly likely wrong on where the wolf team is. If Sabi were right about any of the wolf team, or were not protecting the wolf team in some way, Sabi would be dead. Instead Sabi is, like I said in point 1, mostly ineffectual, but also pointint in the wrong directions. Sabi also does not appear to be doing wholescale reevaulations of the game and their view on it, until today starts. The wolf team can play the odds Sabi doesn't re-evaluate and instead falls deeper into the "spam things and despair" gameplay they're exhibiting the last two days

3. Sabi and HK form an Alignment Confirmation duo. Inverse of the Difference Check, an Alignment Confirmation is functionally this: When HK flips town Sabi is functionally confirmed town. I've hard town read Sabi for days, and Sabi has been in the "HK is town" corner for days as well. If Sabi is a wolf today is the day Sabi needs to turn the corner, and Sabi needs to start doing it sooner rather than later, so that the HK chop is cemented AND so that Sabis pivot into HK wolfing isn't called into question in the coming max 2 game days.
Likewise, Sabi flipping town functionally confirms HK as town for the same reason. You can't simultaneously argue "HK kills his wolf readers" and also "HK kills his town readers" in the same breath, or even the same game day. It's a juxtaposition that can't be reasonably held.

I was gonna find more reasons from quotes about wolfy things HK has done but there's so much bullshit I'm just gonna quote these two and talk about some of it

A ton of HK's solving posts this game have been meandering longer posts with little conclusion and only the veneer of solving, mostly for self defense. Read the top post and tell me what comes of it. The first half is just him giving reasons why he can't be a wolf, none of which hold up, and the second half is words masquerading as thoughts that does nothing productive in the end. How many times has HK given a definitive wolf read? 90% of the time it's been these things like "I dunno" or just a random PoE put together. The only times he's given an actual wolf read of someone it's not held up at all imo and has mostly been things like nit-picking Risiinq when she was killable, Santy when he was, or Neon earlier and camping it out without much thought. Neon today specifically I don't think someone can believe like HK has considering everything she's posted this game.

The second post shows more of this, how it's mostly just a veneer and self defense. HK says Sabi is wrong on the wolf team so hasn't died, but never cares to extrapolate on actual wolf reads from this. I know this is something he's done a ton this game and I was gonna find more examples but I just can't be bothered to read through his ISO to do that. The first quote is another one, at least. Then the 3rd point which is sorta valid from the perspective that him town makes Sabi more town, in that she's been defending him, but the inverse is literally just not true like how he tries to make it out to be. Sabi correctly town reading HK isn't a reason she doesn't die, that's a reason for her TO die and is directly related to point 2 in his own post (if she was correct, she would be killed), but he's not trying to put these things together, he's writing all his solving so he can get people off his back. Almost everything he's written this game has felt like that imo

I cannot wait for you to go "oops I was wrong"

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:22 pm this is hard lol i see what porscha means but going through her iso she like wolfsides pretty much this entire game

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:18 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:15 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:29 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:18 pm @Porscha do you think Neon can be a wolf still? And how come?

yes, I think it's possible, however, I think the read is not formed particularly well because I remember so little from earlier in the game. I can maybe see a world where neon/hk are wolves and neon insisted on pushing back on my read that I strongly believe that if hk is wolf, his partner has been bussing or willing to bus at any given moment because otherwise they would stick out like a sore thumb. she could argue against this if it were true because it would mean it leaves her in my poe and wants to prove (perhaps lead into a poe) that someone like me, sabi, and tsp who have been off hk wagon today could still be his wolf partners.

This is my first game with neon - she was vehemently against my push on her regarding her change in wim when it came to yesterday where we lynched santy and I dropped it, because ultimately (especially for me with no meta), the subject of wim change is ... not necessarily productive in providing a read. it was only giving me ate to work with.

I worry that neon can flip a switch and go from floating in thread with relatively light presence to creating very convincing posts that include world building around something that... could be true. It's a large part in reason why I went onto santy yesterday, and really her only response to the flip was, "well I was wrong. so what" and when the wim of those posts is questioned, it's "well wim is AI for me but the subject of wim is NAI anyway so this is pointless."

her tone in the conversation her and I had yesterday was relatively towny. she ended with the, "well I didn't *really* think you're wolf but I have to keep my options open and I think this helped me see that you are more likely town. if you're town, I really need you here." It's something a good wolf could fake to make me feel comradery with her while still moving the needle on my slot (I think she had little choice but to do this because I was grilling her so hard on every little fucking thing and to try and triple down on a lot of it as me putting it out as manipulation / wolf tactics would be extremely hard for anyone to do and it would put a lot more attention on her slot b/c the reality is that I *am* strongly TR'd) while still... maybe leaving a little room for a lylo situation where she walks the read back on me to possible wolf.

oh I just saw this for some reason

I guess I can see the flipping a switch thing but to me that's way more easily explained by a towny motivated by thinking they have something than a wolf deciding to do that and most of what she's been saying lines up well with that too internally imo. I don't really think a wolf sees the payoff of that as worthwhile. It's a lot of effort and if she's intending to bus HK like she would be if she is today then it's a weird move to do that the day before then kill HK today like you're saying

why is getting rid of santy the day before flipping her theoretical wolf partner who will inevitably be flipped before lylo weird? ftr I do think it's more likely that santy argument came from town as well.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:13 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:11 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:06 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm lily is your solve then Sabi/TSP after I flip town or are you planning on re-evaluating?

if u flip w i probably kill porscha tomorrow

wow it's almost like I made 700 word posts on this exact thing in advance nobody could be assed to read. nice. very poggers

I have explicitly stated that my read is if hk does flip wolf, his teammate is bussing or has bussed or is willing to bus. I'm most clearly, out of everyone here except tsp who also isn't voting hk and said that hk might not be wolf, the option that sticks out like a sore thumb when hk flips wolf. I do not fear this world because i do not have have tmi. I am unsure of hk's alignment. if I had tmi, I am bussing. I'm not leaving myself out to dry looking like the one idiot who hard defended hk on multiple occasions just for him to flip wolf because now the entire point of getting hk deep has gone out the window when he flips and I immediately flip next day. the solve of me being wolf after hk flip is level 1 and I'd like you to read this argument this time instead of skipping it because despite nothing happening most of the day, you couldn't be assed to read my long interaction with neon where I went through all of this already.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:29 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:18 pm @Porscha do you think Neon can be a wolf still? And how come?

yes, I think it's possible, however, I think the read is not formed particularly well because I remember so little from earlier in the game. I can maybe see a world where neon/hk are wolves and neon insisted on pushing back on my read that I strongly believe that if hk is wolf, his partner has been bussing or willing to bus at any given moment because otherwise they would stick out like a sore thumb. she could argue against this if it were true because it would mean it leaves her in my poe and wants to prove (perhaps lead into a poe) that someone like me, sabi, and tsp who have been off hk wagon today could still be his wolf partners.

This is my first game with neon - she was vehemently against my push on her regarding her change in wim when it came to yesterday where we lynched santy and I dropped it, because ultimately (especially for me with no meta), the subject of wim change is ... not necessarily productive in providing a read. it was only giving me ate to work with.

I worry that neon can flip a switch and go from floating in thread with relatively light presence to creating very convincing posts that include world building around something that... could be true. It's a large part in reason why I went onto santy yesterday, and really her only response to the flip was, "well I was wrong. so what" and when the wim of those posts is questioned, it's "well wim is AI for me but the subject of wim is NAI anyway so this is pointless."

her tone in the conversation her and I had yesterday was relatively towny. she ended with the, "well I didn't *really* think you're wolf but I have to keep my options open and I think this helped me see that you are more likely town. if you're town, I really need you here." It's something a good wolf could fake to make me feel comradery with her while still moving the needle on my slot (I think she had little choice but to do this because I was grilling her so hard on every little fucking thing and to try and triple down on a lot of it as me putting it out as manipulation / wolf tactics would be extremely hard for anyone to do and it would put a lot more attention on her slot b/c the reality is that I *am* strongly TR'd) while still... maybe leaving a little room for a lylo situation where she walks the read back on me to possible wolf.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:13 am NONE OF THIS IS SUPPORTED BY ANYTHING I LOOKED FOR BECAUSE I LOOKED FOR NOTHING

current votes:

Santy: neon, porscha, sabi, lily
HK: santy, esooa, risiing
risiinq: HK

does it make MORE sense if two wolves are on me saying "hk is wolf and even if not he has to die" or does it make LESS sense?

I think the longer the game goes the more I can't be a wolf, if I don't go over here today and Santy is town I expect the dialog tomorrow to be "HK was protected, kill him then kill on the santy wagon" but like I've shown today that I'm not someone worth protecting. I haven't participated, haven't solved, haven't done much of anything at all.

Partially b/c I'm lazy and bad, partially because I scored a PS5, and partially because it stops the narrative of "HK was protected" because again, haven't done shit to protect, there's no reason. The wolf team, if I am a wolf, should have been busing me from D2 onward, even D1 after my outburst.

which would indicate to me that either Santy is a hit OR Santy is the "protect risiinq" wagon.

Now if Santy is NOT a hit I think it's more likely that risiinq IS a hit AND ALSO that there's a wolf on the Santy wagon, of which Sabi makes the least sense (watch it be sabi), then Porscha, then probs a tossup between neon/lily, neither of which I really have a read on.

If Santy IS a hit I'm torn. On the one hand having a wolf there makes sense, and it might be Neon then. But having a wolf be off wagon is also fine here as the "off wagon" is the policy chop that's been hanging on for days now.

UGH. I don't think you can say anything concrete if Santy is a hit. I think you can if Santy isn't a hit.

If Santy is a hit I do not think there are two wolves on my wagon. Which I said above.

game is hard, mafia is dumb, etc etc

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:07 am why you don't shut down sabi if they are town:

1. Nobody is listening to Sabi. They file Sabi away into a "town but" box and forget about them until it's needed to pull them out of it.
Sabi has the most posts of anyone in the thread and honestly the least amount of pull outside of me and TSP. Nobody is really following Sabis pushes, unless they are consensus, and nobody for sure is following their defenses. See Jack going over and me leading today.

2. Sabi is highly likely wrong on where the wolf team is. If Sabi were right about any of the wolf team, or were not protecting the wolf team in some way, Sabi would be dead. Instead Sabi is, like I said in point 1, mostly ineffectual, but also pointint in the wrong directions. Sabi also does not appear to be doing wholescale reevaulations of the game and their view on it, until today starts. The wolf team can play the odds Sabi doesn't re-evaluate and instead falls deeper into the "spam things and despair" gameplay they're exhibiting the last two days

3. Sabi and HK form an Alignment Confirmation duo. Inverse of the Difference Check, an Alignment Confirmation is functionally this: When HK flips town Sabi is functionally confirmed town. I've hard town read Sabi for days, and Sabi has been in the "HK is town" corner for days as well. If Sabi is a wolf today is the day Sabi needs to turn the corner, and Sabi needs to start doing it sooner rather than later, so that the HK chop is cemented AND so that Sabis pivot into HK wolfing isn't called into question in the coming max 2 game days.
Likewise, Sabi flipping town functionally confirms HK as town for the same reason. You can't simultaneously argue "HK kills his wolf readers" and also "HK kills his town readers" in the same breath, or even the same game day. It's a juxtaposition that can't be reasonably held.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:47 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:40 pm Why would a wolf defend mac in that scenario? Make it make sense to me

by that logic HK is never wolf then because nobody defended mac harder than HK did day 2, despite mac saying he needed to be voted off for being day 1 counter wagon. make it make sense to me.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:41 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:40 pm Why would a wolf defend mac in that scenario? Make it make sense to me

To look like there isn't tmi.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:46 pm Because it's too obvious of a wolf partner to start cw when their partner is probably going to flip

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:44 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:43 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:41 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:40 pm Why would a wolf defend mac in that scenario? Make it make sense to me

To look like there isn't tmi.

No. This is what like day 4 or 5? I need you to make it make sense to me using facts not conjecture.

Do you think both of macs partners voted for him?

I don't.

I tr hk and don't think he starts the Esooa cw as a wolf.

Neon was not on macs wagon so then who else is left?

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:42 pm You think hk is a wolf, right?

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:39 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:36 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:36 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:35 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:33 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:32 pmman we lost lmao

why

I don't think TSP/HK can be w/w and don't know who the last wolf is and don't think I can talk to literally anyone about that

talk to me about it then

do u think i am town still?

i think ur town so if we are both town and believe eachother are town we can solve this game

probably yea

okay. so if we look at the game through the lens of us both being V then what do we see?

Do you think Neon is burying her partner? That she cased and pushed santy to look like a towny who was trying but made a mistake so she could make it to f3?

Do you think Porscha could be a wolf?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:39 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:37 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:36 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:35 pm I literally don't understand how to make sense of Sabi's posts at all and it's just really annoying

What do you need help with

you are telling me "Neon was wrong on Mac so it's wolfy because she was wrong" with a complete straight face and that has literally never been true of any mafia player who has existed and it's so far from anything I can think I don't even know what to tell you about Neon honestly

It's not that she was wrong, it was the fact she shielded him and kept defending him. Idk she did this in our other game and was hard trind a scum slot.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:36 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:35 pm I literally don't understand how to make sense of Sabi's posts at all and it's just really annoying

What do you need help with

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:36 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:35 pm

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:33 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:32 pmman we lost lmao

why

I don't think TSP/HK can be w/w and don't know who the last wolf is and don't think I can talk to literally anyone about that

talk to me about it then

do u think i am town still?

i think ur town so if we are both town and believe eachother are town we can solve this game

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:33 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:32 pmman we lost lmao

why

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:33 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:32 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:25 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:24 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:23 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:21 pm I literally don't remember a single thing about mountainous ITA other than it existed lmao, I couldn't name a single other player in it or who the wolves were

I was in it, Brad, Alison, spf, etc. That's was lily's first ever forum game. I sr her because lhf and you were livid over that because simp.

Then I had a mental break down

yes, surely the only reason someone would dislike "I scumread her because lhf" is simping

You were like hard shielding her that whole game because it was her first game.

What ever takes simp to know a simp

I just looked at my ISO and I know convincing you is a fools errand but my god is it so painful to be so right about how to town read new players like I demonstrated that game

I was a wolf ma'am.

I had to push on lhf. The rest of the playerlist scared me.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:30 pm Well once someone is dead set in not voting Mac and saying how he's her tr, it's at this point wolfy.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:25 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:24 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:23 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:21 pm I literally don't remember a single thing about mountainous ITA other than it existed lmao, I couldn't name a single other player in it or who the wolves were

I was in it, Brad, Alison, spf, etc. That's was lily's first ever forum game. I sr her because lhf and you were livid over that because simp.

Then I had a mental break down

yes, surely the only reason someone would dislike "I scumread her because lhf" is simping

You were like hard shielding her that whole game because it was her first game.

What ever takes simp to know a simp

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:24 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:22 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:21 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:19 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:18 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:16 pm @Sabiplz who are you wolf reading

Kinda at this point everyone lol

I'm paranoid I have been pocketed/shielding someone.

You just earlier said you have no doubts on Porscha atm lol

So even besides that you should have at least some inclination, no?

I mean she's the least I'm paranoid over but I could just be pocketed.

The least confidence I have is neon and tsp

lmao why neon

She wolfed against me and she's is known to pocket me.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:24 pm Her interaction with Mac are partnery.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:24 pm Her push on HK is icky

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:24 pm She keeps ate-ing me when I pressure her and according to her ate is scummy

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:23 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:21 pm I literally don't remember a single thing about mountainous ITA other than it existed lmao, I couldn't name a single other player in it or who the wolves were

I was in it, Brad, Alison, spf, etc. That's was lily's first ever forum game. I sr her because lhf and you were livid over that because simp.

Then I had a mental break down

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:21 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:19 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:18 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:16 pm @Sabiplz who are you wolf reading

Kinda at this point everyone lol

I'm paranoid I have been pocketed/shielding someone.

You just earlier said you have no doubts on Porscha atm lol

So even besides that you should have at least some inclination, no?

I mean she's the least I'm paranoid over but I could just be pocketed.

The least confidence I have is neon and tsp