The Syndicate

DrWilgy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Because there's no plunge to take, you're placing your vote. What is the "Plunge" JJJ? I mentioned you're uphill climb because this doesn't make sense as a plunge since you've dealt with suspicion all game. If this is a plunge, there's clearly some risk you are taking here.

You see Doc, what you're doing here is saying what I'm doing but not why it's suspicious. I called it "taking the plunge" because I haven't done the thorough analysis of Tranq's content that I often do for those I help to lynch. It can't be done with him, there's not enough there. I hope it works out. It is a risk I am taking, not just for me but for every civilian. Lynching a player like Tranq is inherently risky, that's why I grumbled about it yesterday (and it should be stated that I even said last day phase that I was underwhelmed by a Tranq lynch but not disgusted by it).

How so? Tranq is an enigma to most players, if he's not giving you a means to understand him why not get rid of him? Same could apply to me, Mac, MM, and all lurker/3rd party claimers. This is why you pluck wall-flowers. How is losing Tranq's civ contribution, any greater than other's? why is it enough to warrant a risk that would require a plunge?

No civilian lynch is ever good for the civilian faction. Ever. I don't care if it's a person who has been wrong on every read, or a person with zero posts, or a person who has bad B.O. permeating the thread -- the numbers game is crucial and any lost civilian brings the game one step closer to LyLo. So yes, lynching a player without the comfy cushion of a well-reasoned case is a risk, and I called it "taking the plunge".

Why is that suspicious?

We ain't at Lylo yet, nor do I think we are close. That's why.

Also, you are incorrect. A good example of why is actually LOST that just ended. Nutella was a civ player that rode to endgame while remaining an enigma. Alot of me wanted to lynch her over Zebra (who was also civ) because I could at least judge Zebra. Zebra could contribute and we could continue evolving. The thread died after Zebra died, but we got lucky and S~V~S solved the game. Had SVS not solved the game, I would've lynched Nutella and mafia would've won.

So, tell me again JJJ, what is the risk in lynching someone who's death will not impact the thread or the game this far in?

Wait. Wait. Did I just drink dumb juice or did you explain exactly *why* this should be a concern?

IF svs hadn't "solved the game." you would have voted her and caused a civ loss. Right? So why was your wanted vote on Nutella all game a good idea? Why in this case is it an example of why we should lynch tranq?

I'm confused by what you are trying to say here.

DrWilgy wrote:I forgot he was playing, and you've been all "TIE! TIE! TIE! TIE!"

still catching up....

but anytime I "forget someone is playing." and I do - often. It makes me want to look at them harder.

Just sayin.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
I hope you realize that you're going to spend your life trying to recapture the feeling of the 4-way tie, but always fall short. It was a magical moment, and magical moments come once in a lifetime. It's over. It's gone. Cherish the memory, place your sig picture in scrapbook, share the tale with your grandchildren in a few decades.

This is so beautiful that I wish I had more time and energy so I could sig it. Sadly I still haven't provided ocular proof to the thread aka Mac that my hubby and Kahl Fucking Drogo are besties because I've been to busy to play with photobucket and resize the damn picture.

Ricochet wrote:

Tranq wrote:A bit odd to see JJJ back off his LoRab connection with either llama or Dom after llama's lynch. I'm voting Dom for now.

Your Dom "case" is literally one posted that says

Death to Dom!

Dom, I love you.

And also - I love this post so much! It made me snarf beer I giggled so hard. You are my new favorite rico -

also rico re: your spreadsheets, it's not that they are confusing so much as it is I'm the suck at The Maths. Too many numbers and my brain shuts down. It's amazing I know the store numbers as well as I do cuz really, I'm the suck at The Maths. It's like I'm the new Illy for as bad as I suck at The Maths. If it's not got lots of words explaining what the numbers mean, I'm lost. (A little shout out to illy for our old skool peeps.)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think everyone who has voted for MM bears some obligation to comment on his claim of being neutral, production of gun to head reads, and any other thoughts about his most recent content since becoming the lead wagon.

I'm given pause. His post history is neutral-compatible similarly to llama's and even Epi's in that they were both narrowly focused, detached from a number of large discussions, and less effortful than they usually are when civilian. I doubt there are three different killing independent roles in one game, which suggests to me it might not be the best idea to lynch MM. He'd need to flip straight up baddie for me to feel good about it.

I know this is 11ty billion pages ago. Just got home from work. Just poured a beer. omg today you guys.

Just wanted to respond to it since I did vote for him and I don't currently know the flip. As I'm reading along, I personally don't care if his role is "neutral" or not. His post history hasn't been very civ friendly even for a neutral. In Death Note, (where I grow more and more worried that is where his role comes from) TH was truely neutral and just had to live to the end. You know what, till there was no statistical way for the civs to win anymore, he tried to help the civs. To the very end.

If you ain't with me, you're against me.

I work the day shift today which means the lynch ends just as dinner rush starts. I'm placing my vote on marshy but will try to come back before the poll ends to see if anything else shakes out. I like ricos point about the lack 9f death note roles. Bad mood for sure and marshy was the baddest of them all. His play here feels similar to that game.

Sorsha wrote:Or maybe it should be "How would asking you about me gauge your civness?"

dunno -matt's mind is matt's mind. But if I were to guess, it was because you came out so hard on lorab and I I was so resistant to it since it was my day 1 and 2.

And also - not sure yet still if there are two mafia teams. I think he was testing me to see if I'd pursue you being bad.

Of course, I can totes be wrong about that.

It was just the vibe I got when i read his questions.

Sorsha wrote:

Dom wrote:

Long Con wrote:It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

Maybe he has a team helping to reign in his aggressiveness this game?

I don't know if "aggressiveness" is the right word for it. His "Matt-ness" maybe?

That's a fair point.

That said, last time I was bad with matt, there was no containing his matt-ness. And also that was pre-his absense and return to the games. Like way back during homestar runner which was the first game that got me into the first champs game.

I'm sure he's grown and changed since then, just still....he's not quite to his meta and not quite talking about why he isn't. Can't figure out what's up with him yet.

As to why he asked me specifically about you? IDK - TBH - I thought he was asking me to gage my civness more than throw shade on you shorsha.

Dom wrote:

Long Con wrote:It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

I prollly effed up my phrasing. I'm sorry - I'm cooking dinner and hot toddying the FUCK out of my cold.

If there are two baddie teams, bloopies could be on the other baddie team.
If there is only one team, the she's likely good. Same theory as with sorsha and BR (the last of which we know was civ)

Ugh - I knew someone was going to ask me this soon.

I honestly could go back and forth on most players. It's easier for me to name who I don't suspect than who I do. Rico is likely ok (I don't think our hosts are as evol a host as LC, but I admit I could be wrong there.) I think Sorsha is ok - I think FZ is ok. DH has read oddly sypmatico to my thoughts this game which makes me want to trust him. Motel room feels like he is trying but working under time constraints which I get. Draconus feels like he's working under the same constraints and he's a tricky read regardless.

I've not seen enough of bad JC to make a call, but I get why people think she might be bad. Same reasons people think I could be bad. Looking back at vote history makes some tough calls in hindsite for sure, Just not sold that she's bad vs in a tough spot as a civ ya know?

LC, JJ, You, Marshy - are all completely capable of snowing me and with the exception of JJ have. At least once. I lean civ on you and jj - I'm not sure about lc and marshy at all. That's my preconcieved notions at play though more than anything.

mac feels like he's mostly in it for he luls - but he feels like that regardless.

tranq I really think was just bored at the beginning of the game. Kid is hard to amuse. srrsly. He's posting now more in content and I'd like to see more from him before I make up my mind.

ninja is a hard read for me too as she is always in terminal catch up mode. I get that too. I spend 90 percent of every game there. I think her vote for lorab helps her alot. Still not convinced there aren't 2 baddie teams.

Matt seems oddly quiet. not sure at all what I think of that.

everyone else is just kinda a ? for me.

linki - you are right - your stance on jj is pretty clear - if not him, where else would you look and why?

RIP BR. Yet again you are taken too soon from a game I get to play. QUIT DOING THAT BADDIES!! :(

You guys probably didn't know this, but my husbands bff is jason momoa. To honor the fact that he is bfff with aquaman I vote dolphin army since the preferred get drunk option is off the table. Stoopid kubrik takin my booze.

Matt wrote:RIH LLama.

FZ - I was thinking that you were most likely Golden's Monopoly play buddy. But if that were true, then why the never ending defense of 3J? I don't think I've played with a civ LC since I came back for Mafia, but he seems pretty legit to me in this game. I think it's odd that he's simply asking people to talk about his case, and now people are calling him bad.

bea - Do you believe Sorsha/BR to be good this game?

Voting for Dolphin Army

If we are dealing with one baddie team, I'd say yes. Not sure we are on a solid consensus of that likelihood though.

I've seen what you see since I've replaced in.

Here's my problem, if there was other stuff pre when I replaced in, even going back and rereading it, I'm not getting it in the same tone and same content as it was intended. So I'm sure if JJ or LC are baddies, either of them could color what happened in such a way that if I went back and reread it, I could see where they are coming from. Does that make sense?

I would like to hear more from LC regarding everyone else. For me, personally, his lazor focus on JJ is either a) he's that convinced he's right or b) baddie tactic.

So he could either be like Sorsha and BR was regarding Lorab -

Or like lorab was in being super not happy about almost being lynched and then never answering any of my questions hoping it would all blow under the table. (this is not the exact same scenario I know, but I think it's close enough? maybe?) I want to believe in good LC. I want to believe this is a thing that can exist in a game I play. I would absolutely ADORE having a civ LC on my team.

Or c - there are two baddie teams and he is both correct and bad.

a) I don't understand rico's spreadsheet, but then again, I never do.

b) should we talk at all about the night poll? Do we think all the positions are in order? Cuz I really want to vote for a well stocked bar, but if it could potentially be bad maybe not? IDK?

linki - my distrust of LC is pretty well documented FZ. He's really really good at this game. This how I feel during every game I play with LC - I'm all Mulder. I want to believe. More than any single player I've ever played with, I have a hard time 100 percent trusting LC. It's not fair to him. I know. It is what it is. That said, he's a stand up guy and kind as the day is long. I adore the dickens out of him. Also - most people don't know this, but he has a lovely singing voice.

also - wtf was up with my phrasing up there? "use thread stuff to build a completely believable case" is how that should have read.

I srrsly need to be not on the same schedule as the hubby if I want to mafia - he's been tempting me for hours with tv catch up - previews for Arrow and Game of Thrones, teefurry kitty shirts and stickers for my car.

Long Con wrote:

FZ. wrote:LC, you're making me doubt myself with your case, but other than the Kubrick thing, I just don't get a baddie vibe from him.

I think this is the main reason why his lynch has totally lost steam. Such a Civvie vibe! Hey, JJJ, a question for you: are you an experienced enough Mafia player to be able to play a "Civ game" when you are not Civ? FZ, what is a baddie vibe? Is it something only baddies give off, uncontrollably, and Civs never have? Vibe. Vibe vibe vibe. Gut feel? Are you that good?

I can easily explain why he wasn't NK with the reasoning the baddies thought they could get him lynched. As for why baddies didn't take that bait you gave them, I think he was getting votes every day now, as well as the last day, but my thought is, baddies were feeling this train lost its momentum.

As for the Kubrick issue, it reminds me of Death Note game, when Russ died and was revealed to be a role checker and changed my mind about me the day before he died from being civ, to probably being bad. Epi made a really good case with statistic reasoning that even I couldn't ignore. It was probably the best case I've seen in a long time...but it was wrong. I was good, it was circumstantial, and as much as it appeared like a solid evidence based case, it was wrong. I can't tell you how frustrated I was that game. By the way, I could survive a lynch too, and I fought really hard to prevent my lynch that game. So at least consider all of that when you're looking at things.

Believe me, I know that I could be wrong, and that JJJ could be Civ. Like I said before, I truly was posting to let the thread know a very good reason why I suspected him less (before I factored in Lorab's control of the Position that day). I'm not tunnelling here. I have other suspicions. It's just that the evidence is practically glaring at this point. Considering everything JJJ has done that has made people feel like he's Civ, it comes down to one question: is he a skilled enough player to write these things as a baddie?

I hope you take this the complementary way it's intended.

I believe that JJ is a capable enough mafia player to snow me into thinking he's a civ EXACTLY as much as I think a capable baddie LC is able to use thread stuff to build a completely case on a civ while saying the whole time, "Guys, I'm just as doubtful as you are, but the evidence is there."

So. Yea.

Ricochet wrote:

Long Con wrote:
So the real deal is, you all followed a lynch on a player that was bogus. The points that made Llama seem bad were not accurate, and it's only luck that he wasn't a Civ.

No need to be this harsh. Firstly, the result is in favor of the civs, no matter how oddball the case was. One can inadvertedly catch a baddie with small stuff, silly pings or out-of-the-box sussing - sure, it won't rank as Greek masterful rhetoric stuff, and even the baddie might feel it wasn't fair for him to go down this way, but it is what it is. I think our Host SVS would agree with this.

Long Con wrote: It's really interesting that most everyone is ignoring the case that JJJ is Kubrick, despite him surviving a lynch on the day that it is probable that Kubrick would survive a lynch. You remember, right? A case based on "facts", instead of "how we think Lorab might distance in that post".

How a confirmed baddie might have distanced in his/her posts sounds fair of a case to me. Also, the Kubrick facts don't completely sink JJJ's boat, they just create doubt around him.

Long Con wrote: I want to REALLY focus on how interesting it is, actually. Lemme go look at how many votes JJJ got today. Last time I checked (a few hours ago), it was down to just me voting for him.

Here's the angle for you, and it really only resonates if you think that my (now) main case on JJJ has any realistic credibility. To recap that case as simply as possible, again: Lorab/Ozymandias was able to control the Day 3 Position. Kubrick survives a lynch on Position 1. JJJ was under suspicion going into Day 3. JJJ survived the lynch on Day 3. JJJ is probably Kubrick.

I happen to think that's enough to seriously consider that JJJ is Kubrick. I also had several other points of solid suspicion on JJJ even before that came up.

Yes, the reasoning here of the process is no-doubt solid. But, as I've said, it doesn't 100% make me pull the nuke switch on him.
Two auxiliary questions: 1) do you think a civ one-time survivor, the kind JJJ is openly claiming, could exist in the game, to balance out Kubrick's bad mad skills? 2) Do you think Kubrick's role could actually be the corrupted one? More precisely, do you think a civ role called Kubrick could encompass all the abilities written there (lynch immunity on one position, night kill immunity on four positions), just like it appears to do as a baddie?

Long Con wrote: If JJJ is a Civ, why did no baddies at all decide to back this case and go for his lynch?? If he's a Civ, he's a dangerous one. Look at his awesome all-player ISOs after a baddie dies! Those are very valuable references to have. And yet, a) no one voted for him today, and b) no one has tried to night kill him.

Macdougall threw a (joke?) vote his way long after the Llama train had left the station. Otherwise, just me. Today was filled to the brim with people pretty much ignoring the JJJ case. Are you telling me that no baddie at all would latch on to a case like this to lynch a Civ? He's practically served up on a silver platter.

But no votes. Think about that.

Don't know how to answer your first angle. Llama was, on the downside, a good magnet for baddies votes as well; they gain as much from his death. I suppose JJJ wasn't the main option for them this time? Would baddies just expose themselves by voting JJJ, with no strong momentum for JJJ to be voted, only because they fear his civvieness?

As for expecting high-posting, high-casing civilians to get swiftly removed during the Night, that's not a civilianesque thing to say to my ears.

Or you know, rico could just say better 2 posts later what I was trying to ask.

FZ. wrote:Wow, I did not see that coming. No idea what it means regarding the number of mafia teams.


LC, you're making me doubt myself with your case, but other than the Kubrick thing, I just don't get a baddie vibe from him. I can easily explain why he wasn't NK with the reasoning the baddies thought they could get him lynched. As for why baddies didn't take that bait you gave them, I think he was getting votes every day now, as well as the last day, but my thought is, baddies were feeling this train lost its momentum.

As for the Kubrick issue, it reminds me of Death Note game, when Russ died and was revealed to be a role checker and changed my mind about me the day before he died from being civ, to probably being bad. Epi made a really good case with statistic reasoning that even I couldn't ignore. It was probably the best case I've seen in a long time...but it was wrong. I was good, it was circumstantial, and as much as it appeared like a solid evidence based case, it was wrong. I can't tell you how frustrated I was that game. By the way, I could survive a lynch too, and I fought really hard to prevent my lynch that game. So at least consider all of that when you're looking at things.

This coupled with my knowlege of at least one host's love of balance is what's holding me back on JJ. If a baddie can't get lynched - then some civ must not be able to be lynched too. Otherwise the construction of the game outs the role. Doesn't it? Or am I not seeing something?

I get what you are saying LC, I really do. And I could be the dumbest person ever for not buying in on it, but I played Death Note too and I saw how all that shook out. And I'm not seeing anything else but well constructed circumstance since I've started playing to make me think JJ is bad.

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:Hey everyone: would you all say I ask lots of questions or nah?.

My experience with you is that asking a lot of questions is your usual detective style.

I agree with this. It's one of the things that tends to make Dom hard to read tbh. He tends to ask alot of questions regardless of alignment. Given her explanation of why FZ is leary of question asking Dom, I can see where that is coming from. But, no. I don't think Dom is bad soley because he's asking a lot of questions. He was trained to play the game by asking questions and looking for holes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

bea wrote:You know what sucks more? My play this cycle. I am sorry. Still dealing with work chaos and my hubby has been on my schedule the last two nights so having my "post work mafia catch up alone time" hasn't happened. This shall change soon.

It's only made tougher when you happen to join in while the thread is moving so fast at the end of the phase. Thanks for your effort bea.

I get that jj - I really do. The votes are tricky and all I have to add to my defense is I'm busy and I haven't read the whole thread. I appreciate that you do realize I'm trying.


Every time. Every stinking time I say, life has settled down some, I can play a game. All hell breaks loose in my RL. This time it happened literally 3 hours after I was announced in. LOL. Maybe God is telling me to cut the ties, but I love you lot so much.

After tomorrow, I move back to close at the beginning of the week, open at the end of the week. That will help me out with available time to play some.

You guys were right on LoRab. Good job!

Night was bloody. That sucks.

You know what sucks more? My play this cycle. I am sorry. Still dealing with work chaos and my hubby has been on my schedule the last two nights so having my "post work mafia catch up alone time" hasn't happened. This shall change soon.

I like the work JJJ did with llama/dom. I keep going back and forth over who looks worse because of it. lorab did indeed first talk to her meta. She looked to LC to back her up on it and I verified that it does indeed happen. Last time it happened was Monty Python mafia where she and I were baddie teammates together. In that light, it looks alot like she was distancing from llama to buddy Dom. But if she's the one that tells the thread her meta, is she doing it to flip the script or did she just do it by accident because she is busy, distracted or whatever. Or are they both civs and she didn't care who she supported or made look bad because "not her team, not her problem"?

I like FZ's points about why JJJ is not likely lorab's teammates lots as well. I said yes to her posts as I was reading many times.

I think for the sake of balance it's pretty likely that some civs would also have positions. Balance is a super big deal to at least 1 of our hosts. Having co-hosted with her a couple of times, I know this intimately.

I get that my vote last cycle doesn't paint me in the greatest light. So, I can see people wanting to look my way, but I'm not a baddie this time. Just my usually over extended self.

I'm supposed to be at work in a half hour and I'm not even dressed yet.

Voting llama now because it's the best case atm.

Oh - and tranq. while lc is right and he does like to plot behind the scenes - his lackidasy attiude does have me leaning more toward bored civ tranq with no cool role powers and with no bts and can't be assed to care about the game than bts tranq or civ tranq with a kick ass role. I can't vote him solely on lack of content as I've made that mistake before.

Just pulled into work. Football game starts in an hour. Going with marshy. Jc's evaluation of his posts, helped to get me there. Sorry so short and flyby like.

That is the most beautiful list of questions I've ever seen.

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Tranq wrote:I've spent pretty much all of my free time playing The Binding of Isaac recently. Sorry. Rather than wasting a vote, i've decided to give my vote to Ricochet until i'm able to make informed decisions. Ricochet, my vote is yours. Who should i vote for?

Oh and don't Arya me

Please can we all lynch Tranq today. Let's reach across the aisle here and bury this chump.

I'm not going to reach across that aisle. If someone like me was that quiet, I can see it. Tranq tends to get more involved later.

By the way, has anyone engaged tranq with direct questions? I tend to find he will answer them even when he doesn't do much proactive input.

I pouted in his general direction.

to add yet one more post to the "pages of bea" -

Rico - when I can when I have a few hours to actually sit and think and dedicate time to the game, I've felt, personally, that the thread getting my initial reactions during my late night catch up - can and should be helpful to the fact that I don't have a lot of time during the day/ lynch time and might flyby my vote based on when it ends, what day of the week it is and how crazy my pizza joint is.

I do the best I can. I've struggled with format on how to best play catch up. If I do one long post it annoys people - if I do 15 tiny posts in a row, it annoys people. I've finally decided I will do what is easiest to me. Cuz I've usually had beer and fuck that noise.

Ricochet wrote:11 out of the last 19 posts are bea's. Do you often catch up in this manner?

When I'm forced to close weekend shifts that end at 430 am. Yea. I can't be assed to computer and do things nice and usually most people are in bed while I play catsup to the 10 pages i missed.

Tranq wrote:I've spent pretty much all of my free time playing The Binding of Isaac recently. Sorry. Rather than wasting a vote, i've decided to give my vote to Ricochet until i'm able to make informed decisions. Ricochet, my vote is yours. Who should i vote for?

Oh and don't Arya me

Bitch. You suck.

MacDougall wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:In A World Reborn, timmer had his vote on SVS for only a couple minutes, but it allowed MM to nightkill him.

Really? That's ... not cool considering I didn't have that luxury in the very same game. But thanks for that.

You suck LC.

Sometimes hosts fuck it up. I know him as a host. He's amazing. I'm positive it was accidental. Or he hates you. One of the two FO SHO!

Remember TH mafia?? Remember my shake fist LLLLCCCCCCC posts? Yea.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dom wrote:So you'd actively start a bandwagon against someone you read as civ as a civ?
I don't buy it.

I didn't say that. FZ didn't do that. This is irrelevant.

Start a bandwagon was not good word choice.
Actively campaign is better.

That's a bad word choice too because FZ didn't do that either. I've made that more than clear. You seem to be consciously manipulating the course of events to fit your suspicion.

Dom wrote:Why are you defending FZ?

Because DH made a terrible, crap, worthless case and some people actually accepted the points as good. It's mind-boggling. FZ is a strong town read, and I will always defend strong town reads when they're being suspected for stupid reasons. I think DH is plain bad for it, there's no way he has paid so little attention. I'm also starting to think I gave you too much benefit of the doubt for the "shot at bea" thing, because your recent conduct is awful.

Please. Please. Please. Do NOT put any stock in the "shot at bea" thing. For any game related reason, I do not think Dom was being nafarious and he was totally in line with his role as a mod, as being emotionally sensitive, and being my friend.

I don't find him bad for doing what he did there and I don't think you did what he was worried you did. I never commented on it before because a) I thought it was settled and b) I'm still hurting. I've yet to go through a day that I don't cry. My crew is devistated and now they are worried about "Mommabear" too. It's hard in my world, but that is *my* problem This dumb game helps me. It gives me a release. Please don't dismiss dom solely because he cared that my feelings might get hurt. IDK what his allignment is yet. It's still my day 2.

All I'm saying is I am the subject of said talk and I didn't think he was bad when he did what he did and I didn't think you were bad for your response to it. Please both of you drop that from your reasons to suspect each other.

Golden wrote:Also, I'd still vote lorab. People called her lynch wagon as though jay was getting saved but I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the late jay voters were saving lorab.

Which ones?

Golden wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Black Rock wrote:Golden, why do you feel so strongly about JJJ?

Two things

1) his emotive response scans with my experience of civ jay who doesn't feel he has proper time to defend himself. Without the time and ability to defend himself as he would like, he gets frustrated at the suspicion. I haven't seen baddie jay much at all, but I remember the mafia champs final he seemed to handle suspicion much more calmly.

2) I still don't see why he would have moved the lynch away from llama yesterday, if bad. He drew attention to himself while leading the lynch by making a case on boomslang, when he could have been less loud and stuck with an existing suspicion with llama. Sure, jay survived, but still...

3) perhaps I don't understand the case on jay, but I haven't seen anything particularly compelling about the case on him.

I could well be wrong, if so mea culpa. I just don't think I am.

but doesn't his role claim - that he was a civ and knew he wouldn't die - influence point one differently like at all? because as a civ who won't die - he had all the time in the world didn't he?

I feel like I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle. Please help me see what I'm over looking.

Black Rock wrote:Once, every 3 months LC goes to work, comes home, and then goes to the MTG pre-release. Giving me the whole night all by myself with the computer. What happens? Every one goes to bed.

I guess I could read Golden or watch some TV.

Linki: Dom's still here... I could read him.

I'm so sorry I missed you *yet again* We are eternally destined to be awesome together but never allowed to be at the same bat station at the same bat time.

Dom wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

I... kind of like this theory. It's just crazy enough to make sense, and I know I often find myself using the language of the group I'm talking with. Does this necessarily make him bad, though? I'm not pinged super hard either way. On the civ end, I like his pressure on Tranq and the way he's been skeptical of Mac throughout the game. On the mafia end, I don't like the way he's expressed support for off-wagon candidates and then circled back to the main wagon for all of the lynches thus far; feels just a touch too blendy.

GTH, I guess I'd say bad. The connection of "suspish" with Lorab, combined with his consistent but low levels of aggro toward her, could make the case for mafia teammates.

I think LoRab put the context quite nicely, regardless of alignment.

i agree. Tbh - suspish is shorthand from LP and TP and I even saw it on and used it on rev often. Fuck, I used that shit on HV.

I use it mostly because i can't be assed to type it all out. :P
IF BR or LC or JC disagree, but I'm willing to back up both lorab and dom that it was common usage in our old forums even if dom hasn't often used it here.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

Ah yes, FZ is good because Elohcin is your wife.

Hang on a tick, did anyone else get deja vu just now?

I think his opinion is valid. All though I can think of one instance where she did have BTSC and quit. So it's not fool proof.

It is a fine opinion. I would just prefer something remotely tangible or thread related.

Why?

Because basing a person's guilt or innocence on another persons willingness to talk outside of the thread about laundry is almost as dumb as me having to type this out.

also there is one one one only one bit of meta that MIGHT make me think twice about tranq. And I don't live with him. I don't claim he is my one true love and I know him better than anyone else. That person is BDH.

But I know this one thing about tranq.

He hates to be bored.

So either he's a civ with a nilla role card and he can't get into the game, he's busy, or he's playing possum cuz he's bad.


either way, i'm half drunk and half commited to voting him till he says hi to me and remembers he's playing a CHAMPIONS game and might be out played by the queen nub.

Black Rock wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

I'd kick you in the ass if I were your wife.

It's true though.

So was what I said.

In this fight, the wives win. Just accept it Epi. Also, I'd completely kick your ass too. Remember how I was about the dishwasher?

Epignosis wrote:Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

a) it's my day 2
and b) I thought we weren't supposed to rely on your meta of your wife? I thought we (I mean you) were bored with that?
and c) I've had bts with Eloh. that's a fair point. We always have a grand time not playing mafia.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Why to both of these assertions.

No, no. I want to see if someone can work out why. It's quite simple really.

And vacuums use an air pump, specifically a centrifugal fan, which enables them to suck.

FZ wouldn't go through all that to save a baddie teammate who she knew wouldn't die anyway. She'd have voted him. I agree with you if I got it right. Still curious about my question to FZ.

Black Rock wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Black Rock wrote:I'm so behind. Life kicked my ass yesterday and I just got time to post this today.

I just wanted to say that I didn't miss the vote yesterday, I was unable to vote at all. I will do a big catch up after my three year old goes to bed, he's being a demanding... and is requiring I move away from the computer as I type this. Because he's being rude to mommy I think I will take my time.

Ok, so that's the late sig, Golden and BR being incapacitated so far - I don't remember Boomslang or LoRab having voted on 3.0 though. Is it possible to start correlating who might have wanted one less vote on the tally from these three players? Who do you think w/could have incapacitated you, BR?

I felt like the person who blocked my ability to vote was afraid I was going to vote for LoRab, I'm on the fence if it was a baddie power or a civvie one. I would have likely voted for JJ, but I'm not completely caught up so that may have changed.

So far from page 70-74, I am completely ok with a JJ lynch and would have for sure voted for him because it does look like a push for LoRab.

Not saying I don't suspect LoRab still. They are likely on two different teams.

I'm also ok with a Tranq lynch. I'm not going to give him a pass, by saying that's just Tranq. He's much more devious than that.

Golden, why do you feel so strongly about JJJ?

Oh god girl! so glad you showed to the party!!!

Also yes. yes and yes. And tranq? more yes.

Bitch hasn't even said nub to me yet. That in and of itself deserves a vote.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:In which JJJ shows how FZ absolutely did not start the bandwagon on LoRab:

Spoiler: show

FZ. wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

I agree with 50% of this statement. Voting LoRab again.

I don't like this vote. Because you just ignored all discussion and just voted for someone else.

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.

If Golden feels Boomslang is a civ, maybe we should switch to someone else? If you split your votes, you'll end up being lynched

LoRab?

After Sorsha's vote, maybe her?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.

If Golden feels Boomslang is a civ, maybe we should switch to someone else? If you split your votes, you'll end up being lynched

LoRab?

After Sorsha's vote, maybe her?

Just the first in a wave of late drive-bys, I imagine. Doesn't really make me feel anything about Sorsha. I'll go LoRab. Okay really now, sleepy time.

FZ. wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Sorsha wrote:No i didnt. I've discussed things and I've discussed players up for vote right now. I've been suspicious of LoRab and I've stated why.

This is in response to fz

But right now there are 3 people who have votes. Do you have opinion on any of them? are you interested to see any of them lynched? If not, are you interested to save one of them that might be lynched of you keep your vote that way? Discussing before and discussing now, during the money time are two different things.


linki: Fine

The last linki was directed at me. She wanted to lynch Sorsha. I pushed her to LoRab. This case is bullcrap.

Ok. So you pushed her to vote lorab. Why lorab over her preference to Sorsha? Why as a civ, who knew he'd survive would you push her to vote someone she'd had better feelings over vs someone she actually suspected?

I'm legit asking why this is an acceptable civ behavior since you were a civ who knew he'd survive (again your words, not mine).

HEY FZ!!!!!!!!

I'm curious about what YOU think of this. Since in Death Note, you were actually a civ that had a lynch/kill protect and I remember your fight then.

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Except that's not at all what occured. You were likely to be lynched. Not two people, just you buddy. FZ actively participated in saving you by bussing onto someone she FULL ADMITTED she thought was being genuine. Civs do not bus other civs to save other civs. The math on that does not compute any way you try to spin it.

Except I absolutely do that all the time. So you're full of shit.

Not all civ reads are the same. Some are stronger.

You wouldn't choose someone else in that scenario? Like someone who you don't think is civ?

If it's late in the phase and only two people have enough votes to be realistic final choices, I will usually pick one of them -- even if I read both as civilians. I think it's usually pointless to defiantly vote for one's own pet suspect when that vote has no chance of amounting to an actual lynch. Townies need to have accountability and responsibility for moving the game as a team.

So you'd actively start a bandwagon against someone you read as civ as a civ?
I don't buy it.
You are purposefully misrepresenting my sentiments. I am not supposing someone might choose to vote someone they may think is civ over someone else they think is civ. I am supposing someone actively started a bandwagon and campaigned for their lynch.

Those are different things and you are purposefully conflating them.

Ricochet wrote:

Dom wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

I'm leaning civ ATM.

I ask about what LC inquired, you tell me what you think of LC himself.

Ok.

Ah... I thought it said thoughts on LC are inquired.


I don't think he's suspish for that.

thellama73 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Are you fucking kidding me right now.

This post from DH pings me a bit. For context, it was posted right after JJ was allowed to role claim and did so. To me it reads like DH had built his case counting on the fact that JJ wouldn't be able to be too specific about his role, and the hosts ruling threw a monkey wrench in his plans. Almost this exact thing has has happened to me before when I was bad: an unexpected host decision exposing the flimsy nature of my case. It's a small thing, but it caught my eye.

Except:
1) not his case
2) JJ's badness is not connected to this claim
3) case isn't flimsy

Ricochet wrote:"Tranq - good"

bro

this tbh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:"Tranq - good"

bro

When I have absolutely no clue, I default to good. I don't know how to have a clue about Tranq. Can it be done? Is it possible in this universe?

Have you read anyone's thoughts on Tranq?

I think dom makes a fair point in the underlined bits. That was the part I wanted to quote and highlight my most vocal agreement of. But, TBH, i like this post by him lots so I'm just leaving all of it. Also I can't be assed to try to detag all that and keep the formating right. Sorry. But the major reaon is cuz I agree with him

linki - I see I'm STILL behind. but crapweasle!!! if that's how svs runs games these days I might have to rethink stoners.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

juliets wrote:As i said in the beginning I don't know why you are so quick to call me bad when I feel like I'm giving you every opportunity I can to prove yourself not-bad. Maybe you could explain that to me since I answered your post.

I did "gun to head reads" on every player. All that means is that I made a quick gut judgment -- it's not a condemnation or a call to lynch you. Or a vote for you. I was more perturbed by your vote for me than I was of some others because I didn't expect it. Most of them were not surprising to me, but yours was. I wouldn't have anticipated you'd trust Mac enough to allow his unverified comments about my style as a player to be the deciding factor in your decision. Indeed, his comments were incorrect (the same incorrect comments he made in our last game together).

Mac is accustomed to a JJJ who plays at a maximum level of effort at all times and under all circumstances. Many others here saw that to a ridiculous extreme in the Talking Heads game. This has led to me being held to a higher standard of contribution than anyone else, and perhaps I deserve that, but it's just not reasonable. I said before the game started that I won't be posting that much. I made it clear early in the game that I'm not as invested in this game as I normally would be. I have to step back and chill out, because my conduct in Talking Heads was over the top and frankly obscene.

I knew people would suspect me, but I didn't anticipate quite this.

FWIW JJ - I don't expect maximum TH efforts at all times to see "civ JJ." That's an impossible standard to hold anyone too. I honestly could only play like that if I didn't work and if my hubby were out of town for like a month or however long the game lasted. My RL obligations will always come first. I don't expect anyone else to behave any differently.

For me, personally, at the end of the last cycle, where Mac's argument had weight was in content. Not volume. There were lots of posts before you *did* leave the thread then the bullz case, and given the curse, you have to admit the bullz ISO and gone looks kinda weak. IF another player besides yourself had done what you did, would you think they were civ? If you read your own posts and Epi's name, DH's name, LC's name, my name, blooper's name was the one attached to them, how would civ jj read them?

In hindsite, I can believe your claim that you had a one off kill protect. I've hosted with SVS before. More than once. I know the sorts of roles she likes and she's given that power to civs and baddies. Usually in the same game for the sake of balance. And that could explain why you were not reading as invested in *your own lynch* last phase as it came off to me. You knew you wouldn't die. Therefore you could say "I"m going to bed now." Just a short couple hours before the lynch results. IF you didn't think you would survive, I think you would have been there at the end of your lynch fighting. Baring a physical limitation to being there. If I were you, being lynched, only work would have kept me out of the thread.

The tl:dr (Just in case Tranq ever actually fucking plays again.)

I believe your role saved you. I am not sure if I believe that you are a civ. I hope you can understand why I'm sitting here unsure of if if you are civ or not. This is my Day 2. My mind isn't made up. And also - because it's day 2 for me, you are a bit doubly cursed. Your recent posts have read more like what I expect from you. The easy (your words not mine) gun to head etc. The things you yourself set up for "civ behavior" that I would have liked to have seen last cycle. And that lack of that was why my vote went to you. Now there's always a niggle of that feeling of "He's doing it cuz he was asked to."

BY all means, I don't want you to not talk or give up.

I'd honestly at this point, rather talk about anyone else but you. Just cuz we have time to explore other options and I'd like more than 2 day cycles to figure out what I think of you. And I felt like stating my thoughts on you was important to, at the very least, me. So I did.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:"Tranq - good"

bro

When I have absolutely no clue, I default to good. I don't know how to have a clue about Tranq. Can it be done? Is it possible in this universe?

I'm pretty sure the answer to your questions is no. Even if Tranq were here and posting like 11tymillion times. I've played games with Tranq when we were both bad, when we were both civs, I've HAD both baddie AND civie bts with Tranq and I can't read that squirelly fuck any more now than I could when I started playing with him. He's either that good at mafia, I'm that bad at mafia or both.

No, but I assume that at some point, I will ask a host question and I'd be shocked if I got a reply that differed.

MacDougall wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:The champions sat around enjoying the long luxurious day. The sun was out, the birds were singing,

flowers are blooming...

on days like these, kids like us...



--

So why do we think JJJ is bad, simply because he survived the lynch? Also, did the result stay 10-8 in his favor - I left during the last minutes, but now I see Draco having asked about a tie?

Mac, yesterDay you said JJJ dropped his llama lead to avoid doing a gesture that, should the lynch flip civ, would earn him a "push button lynch" during Day 3.(6). Now, you jump on him right away with your vote. Do you think he is bad and he (or his team) saved his 3.0 lynch, only for him to earn a "push button lynch" now?

There are other possibilities you aren't considering. Like he survives one lynch regardless of someone having to act on it. Duncan Idaho for instance "survived the first attempt on his life" in Dune.

Doesn't answer my question. Why'd you vote for him now, right away, like his lynch survival is begging for a re-do?

Also, Duncan was civ, so... Sounds to me like you're not considering all possibilities.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

I have voted for him right away for the same reasons I ended up voting for him yesterday and after the Lorab counterwagon attempt and the subsequent failure to lynch him ... I think it's a no brainer? I haven't thought about this failed lynch too deeply yet tbh but at face value it looks like he's bad?

Also please don't proclaim that I said that he dropped the Llama claim to avoid being a push button lynch as though it was fact. I was providing a potential explanation. The truth might be something entirely different. It might be as simple as him just not believing he could win a battle with Llama. Boomslang had plenty of active suspicion at many points in the game and Jimmy did seem to select him quite arbitrarily and abruptly. Analyse that.

He and Llama might even be on the same team. I have no idea.

He might be civ. I'm not impossibly convinced that he is bad, but all signs point in that direction to me. If you think he is civ, I'd love to hear your explanation for everything.

bea wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Well that explains why Jimmy didn't leave a legacy post and why I felt like he expected to survive. Explains why he brought other suspects into the equation instead of just pushing for the Llama lynch too because he was never getting lynched and he knew it.

This is prolly a stupid question, but I'm sometimes a dumb - Do you think it's possible that a civ JJ could have not left a legacy post and knew he was going to survivie as well? Or is your mind made up that it shook down the way it did for baddie reasons?

Obviously based on DH's post directly after yours I posted, he feels the second is true.

My vote last day was pretty much Day 1 gun to head vote for me. I know I'm missing lots of pieces and just want to make sure we're thinking everything through.

He said himself he didn't have time to leave one, but he was around for ages and his lynch was considered for quite some time. He would have left a rainbow, a legacy post, a fucking funeral plan. That is JJJ. Him choosing not to leave one to me is a sign that he knew he wasn't going to get lynched. If he KNEW he wasn't going to get lynched he is either responsible for it or he has a team. If he is responsible for it, that isn't a death sentence but in light of all the other evidence it looks bad.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.

Ok - I get that. Occum. And all that. I'm just saying - maybe he could have known he wasn't going to die and maybe didn't want to let on that and maybe still have civ reasons. I reference FZ in Death Note. Like she said - she had a save and she fought HARD not to use it. She never let on she had it till it happened. They ended up NKing her but we spent DAYS talking about FZ - llama and epi were CONVINCED she was bad and we determined to take her out. She was civ. I waffled like a lot. ALL OF US we civ. Except maybe epi? I can't remember which role he had, but he was playing a civ friendly game if he was one of the weird indis.

Maybe this is the same sort of scenario is all I'm saying. I get what you are saying. And what you are saying fits into the meta of what I expect JJ to do too. In the limited amount of exposure I've had to him.

In any event, I can understand his desire to not defend any more and I am curious as to where his posts go this day re: reads.

Curious to see how lorab is this day too.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, did I miss a BR catch up this day? I remember her saying My arent we all chatty then I missed anything else she might have said.

linki -that's fair too I think. I'm trying to watch ash vs the evil dead and also I have beer and also mafia.

all of this is good for my bea general well being btw, because for the moment I'm not focused on my soul crushing broken heart. No pleads for sympathy from me. Just happy for the distraction no matter how small.

Turnip Head wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Turnip Head even sat with them, and while blowing the petals off a daisy...

Blowing the petals off a daisy? That's not a thing.

Please tell me which flower I'm thinking of. It's it a daffodil? I wrote the post in like 5 minutes, no time for fact checking!

dandilion

your welcome.

Please remember how much you adore me.

Boomslang wrote:

Golden wrote:HB did post a number in his subsequent post, epi, without any further prompting from you.

Boomslang, you should check but I think your curse is over, based on SVS clarification earlier.

Although I disagree that 'leading people astray' is more culpable than 'being lead astray'. I would, because I tend to lead not follow. But, I think either can indicate a level of culpability. Each person is responsible for where they put their vote, whatever their reasons are. Baddies might intentionally lead a mislynch on someone. Baddie might intentionally blend in and intentionally 'be lead astray' by someone they know isn't going after someone on their team.

Ah, that is a relief. Thanks, SVS! And I agree that baddies might be found on either side of the leader/follower coin. But I'd argue that baddie leaders do more damage among undecided civs, swaying them with arguments they know to be incorrect. A leader can bring more than just his or her vote to bear on an undesirable lynch, is what I'm trying to say.

do you think this happened this day phase? if so where and why?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Two-hundred and eighty-nine

290.

LoRab wrote:What the absolute fuck?

I've caught up and holy bandwagon, batman!! Seriously, people.

There is more than one person who voted for me who either hasn't mentioned me at all and should know better (Tranq) or who has never played with me before and can't even give me the benefit to answer votes (motel room). A few others who are somewhere in the middle, but that was the most obvious late lynch bandwagon I have ever seen.

And I agree with others that it was a clear attempt to save a teammate. And noting that he didn't act like a civ who had a save to use during the lynch.

*votes JJJ*

Hi lorab. NIce to see you again. (been waiting for this post in my catsup since I read you missed the vote. All I could think is....well...she's in for a surprise..... )


Pretty clear what you think of JJ - what do you think of the rest that voted you? Who's most likely scum? Who's most likely mislead civ?

S~V~S wrote:

Draconus wrote:Not a terrible result.

HOSTS: Did this result occur because of a tie? What is your policy for ties?

1) Not Saying

2) Still not saying

Nice try

You. I <3 you.

Still can't blame a kid for trying. I'm sure I'll get the same response soon enough.

HamburgerBoy wrote:Also, if Jimmy is scum, by doing this they also managed to devalue this narrow gap. If they know the lynch doesn't count, they know that anyone voting for Jimmy could have just as easily been bussing without a worry. It's also therefore expected that someone from Jimmy's scumteam would have been around in the last hour or two as the bandwagons built. The results of this don't make Dharma look good, at least.

How so? Humor me for needing it spelled out like I'm a 3 year old. DH read remarkably well reasoned to me and my new eyes today. (not remarkable for DH - DH is an awesome player- just that I've not always followed his line of thought easily recently and I was shocked at how much what he said made sense to me.)