The Syndicate

Nutella also flipped a Town Vigilante-like role.
So if all of that group are Town we're looking at...
4 dayvigis, 1 arsonist, and 1 night vigilante. This seems too heavily weighted towards day killing power though and Neeko thinks Nanook would spread it out more between day and night.

KZA - Shot by Sean
Marmot - Shot by Dya
Bo - Shot by c4
Alison - Shot by Alexa
Ender - Shot by Sabie
NAA - Shot by HK
Dizzy - Shot by ilario
Nutella - Shot by Sig

That's all the vigilante shots that were claimed.
So far 1 of these has flipped and it was Town (Sean).
1 has been claimed to be from a 3p (HK).
2 have come from winning prizes (c4 and Alexa).

That leaves Dya, Sabie, ilario, and Sig all claiming Town aligned vigilantes with 1 already dead.
Statistically speaking, these cannot all be Town as 5 vigilantes seems excessive even if we assume all are 1-shot and the mystery shot wasn't Town.
c4 and Alexa are not easy to attach and alignment too based on their shots due to how they occurred.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:34 pm I have a couple different ways to win, none of them are aligned with mafia.

Honestly SK that can win with Town is almost so absurd Neeko is tempted to believe it.
Why'd you kill NAA again? Was it to further your wincon or what?

Not a bad top 8 honestly.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:42 am mathematically, how many mafia left? 3-4?

Well OP says 7 so 5.

Oh yeah Neeko forgot TSP did that to Sean in Team Fortress Mafia.
Poor Sean. TSP's natural prey.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:41 am

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:37 am hourly reminder to unvote tsp

I have to catch up but why is this? I feel like his play here is similar to last game where he was mafia and the eod seasnzie wagon again. I don't believe the entire seanzie wagon was town.

Wait, again?
This isn't the first time TSP drove an EoD wagon into Sean?

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:37 am hourly reminder to unvote tsp

The next hour is in 23 minutes. Try again at that time.

Honestly why Neeko unvoted Sabie, Sabie did at the start of day 2 post some fishing questions asking people if Ender's flip made Dizzy look scummier.
It lines up with their stated reason for shooting Ender.

What did Neeko come back to?

So then wouldn't that just make ilario always the Day SK who only claimed the shot because it hit Mafia?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:51 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:50 pm Mac, day SK sounds kinda stupid ngl.
It'd have to be Sig or Ilario as they're the only ones who could have shot Scotty + D2.
And why would an anonymous day SK ever claim a shot? That's stupid.

Day serial killers exist.

Wait are you serious?
Neeko thought that was so absurd it was hilarious.

Mac, day SK sounds kinda stupid ngl.
It'd have to be Sig or Ilario as they're the only ones who could have shot Scotty + D2.
And why would an anonymous day SK ever claim a shot? That's stupid.

Honestly Neko doesn't really care anymore that she's being sused for what amounts to nothing.
Her role's not even good to claim she's necessary to a victory lol.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:32 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:30 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:29 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:27 pm Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

I do not feel that this addresses my concern.

Then neeko fails to understand your concerns.

It felt as though you only included Dizzy's name out of a sense of obligation so as to not be called out for omitting him.

No, it was more because Dizzy was in the list of people on the Ender wagon and Neeko believed there was a chance one of those 3 were Mafia.
Neeko put 2 names from the list, but was saying Dizzy could easily replaec one of the for PoE because Neeko really had not heavily read into any of JPIC, Falcon, or Dizzy at the time.
So it was more a random selection of JPIC and Falcon from those 3 names.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:29 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:27 pm Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

I do not feel that this addresses my concern.

Then neeko fails to understand your concerns.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:25 pm i dont actually feel all that confident about linearpoint flipping mafia given they've felt like one of the hardest working slots on day 2 and the uplift in effort d1 to d2 is usually a pretty reliable tell.

@LinearPoint if u had a gun to fire with right now who do u shoot?

TSP

Possibly Wiggly just cuz their flip would say a lot, but TSP is Neeko's personal choice since Neeko has been saying she's found TSP's EoD bad.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:22 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:40 pm Seanzie: Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, nutella
Wiggly voted self preservation, TSP lead the wagon, need more on the other 3 as to why they voted it. Probably 2 Mafia exactly.

DrWilgy: sabie, dyachei, radishes, c4
Dya shot Marmot so not them, the other 3 maybe 1 Mafia as a counterwagon if Wiggly is not Mafia.

NotAnAxehole: Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario
This wagon is a bit sus so probably 1-2 Mafia in it, but it kind of ended up being a vanity wagon so if Wiggly is Mafia, Mafia being on this wagon makes little sense.

EnderWiggin: dyslexicon, jpic, falcon
One wagon that was in the CFDS. Possibly 1 Maf, not guarenteed.

Not voting/pure vanity: Sloonei, 112, hollowkatt, Creature, sig, porscha, and Linearpoint (Neeko)
1 to 2 Mafia in this list based on other analysis.

Neeko thinks we should focus on 2 of these groups of people for the vote of 8 OR choose a handful of suspicious from each.
Neekos proposal based on this would be: Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, nutella/Wiggly, Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario as the logical solving mechanically.
One can argue instead of "Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario" putting 'sabie, dyachei, radishes, c4" also is logical to solve mechanically.

IF neeko were to suggest scummiest of all groups the list would look closer to this:
Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, Guillotine, Phil and Gloria, Sabie, radishes, jpic, falcon with possibly substituting one for c4 or Dizzy.

This post sticks out in particular. Dizzy (along with C4) gets tacked onto the end as a salad appendage after Linear has spent a lot of words talking about why a bunch of people not named Dyslexicon deserve to be suspected.

Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:14 pm Anyway I just took a quick look at LinearPoint's interactions with Dizzy and they were uninspiring. I can see a somewhat awkward teammate pairing between those two.

Neeko just didn't really find much of a reason to look into Dizzy D1 as nothing stood out and they were just kinda not there.
She was about to D2, but then Dizzy just got sniped by ilario.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:07 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:06 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:05 pm Current top 10:

112 (7)
c4e5g3d5 (7)
DrWilgy (11)
hollowkatt (8)
LinearPoint (7)
Paopan (7)
Phil and Gloria (7)
sabie12 (11)
sig (11)
TonyStarkPrime (9)

Probably only not a fan of lynching c4e5g3d5, hollowkatt, LinearPoint and Phil&Gloria

what exactly is the issue with flipping linearpoint's ass?

What do you even gain if Neeko is flipped?
Assuming Neeko didn't flip Town what does that even tell you?
Like 3 people don't scum read Neeko and the extent of Neeko's wagon is that other people are doing it so it's cool or something.
Fuck, Neeko isn't even someone that anyone would choose for their team as a Mafia captain since everyone barely knows Neeko or doesn't know Neeko.
There is so little going for lynching Neeko.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:06 pm HEY LINEARPOINT YOU OPENWOLFY FUCK, UNVOTE ME OR I'LL VIG YOU

Not if Neeko does it first.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:01 pm [VOTE: unvote Creature, vote LP] aubergine

Complete and under disregard for Neeko's last post.
Again still the only one who has actually given a reason was Slooni.

That's why Neeko has 3 tabs open.
1 for current thread, 1 for all ISO list (+ any ISO's currently open), 1 for poll.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:20 pm My suspicion of LinearPoint is based on one small episode in this thread. It's the only interaction I've had with them, and admittedly I have very little sense of what else they have done in this game, so all of this should be taken with a couple grains of salt. You could also call this an OMGUS if you wanted to.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:49 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:12 pm Dizzy is town by default

This is a really odd dismissal of the scum reads on Dizzy D1.

Actually the more Neeko reads this ISO the worse it becomes.
A lot of it is just saying "X is town" with no elaboration then sheeping them.
It's boarderline too lazy to be wolf posts. They are actually just coasting lol.

It is the middle line that I object to. And I objected to it in the moment as well.
LP responds:

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:52 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:51 am

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:49 am A lot of it is just saying "X is town" with no elaboration then sheeping them.

This has happened a maximum of one time.

Well, 1 person but like 3 seperate times you posted the exact phrase "Nutella is town"

And that's basically the end of it. These posts exist, but they do not mean anything to me.

My problem with this is that LinearPoint introduced a potential suspicion of me based on a perception that does not seem to be entirely accurate, and that I would fail to see as suspicious even if it were accurate. When questioned on it, the subject was promptly forgotten and ignored.
The timing of this exchange is also a factor for me. This happened about an hour after Dyslexicon was shot and flipped mafia. I would think that, at that time, Dizzy's teammates would be prowling for other suspects to latch onto, as several players were being cleared as a result of the flip. Up until this moment, I was a very viable "low hanging fruit" option in the game. I would consider myself to have been vulnerable to false suspicion from Dyslexicon's teammates at exactly the moment LinearPoint began to pursue a bogus suspicion against me.

Neeko's back on so she can talk about this because this is just wrong honestly.

This is what Neeko saw and why Neeko had the conlcuison of your reads being surface level. Neeko, saw nothing between these to actually justify any of these reads, they just kind of came from everywhere and this is why Neeko said your reads were surface level.
Your first read that Neeko saw actual support and justification for was the c4 post which came after Neeko made the posts you were referring to.
So that's why Neeko did not find the middle line wrong in any way.

Now in hindsight Neeko will say she didn't realize that the "Linear is maf" line was just a copy paste of Urist quotes. Also the "default Dizzy is Town" was a misread from Neeko not fully understanding the context of that post.
And while Neeko could have done better at explaining the read and not boiled it down to the "nutella is Town" read. She still doesn't see how the claim of your reads being surface level at the time was wrong in any way as they pretty clearly were in her opinion.

To address the timing of the post argument, Neeko made it clear in the posts prior that she was looking at all the top wagons currently mixed in with people Dizzy was Town reading, voting, and being voted by.
You happened to be in top 8 from what Neeko recalls at the time which is why Neeko even decided to look into your posts and saw what she saw which were surface level reads.
Neeko also fails to see how you could be classified as "low hanging fruit" or viable option for suspicion from Dizzy's flip. The only part of the post Neeko made mentioning a potential connection between you and Dizzy was addressed by you and Neeko understands that it was a misinturprutation where Neeko thought you were defending Dizzy by dismissing all suspicion on them. Boiling Neeko's whole post down to an attempt to smear you by connecting you and Dizzy is just straight characterization of Neeko's read. It was primarily the lack of backing up of reads you provided and the Dizzy post was just one which stood out to Neeko since it looks very odd in isolation.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:47 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:45 pm Pretty sure nobody currently voting Neeko has given a reason outside of "Obviously Urist was killed by LP"
Neeko would like to point out again that NAA used their ability on Alison which would mean mafia knew NAA's role and probably just killed NAA since that role is actually pretty strong at possibly getting 2 green checks a cycle.

I promise you that my vote is there for a reason. Have patience.

yeah, mostly just the others haven't really said anything. Neeko trusts you will go through with a post of reason at some point since you did for c4.

Pretty sure nobody currently voting Neeko has given a reason outside of "Obviously Urist was killed by LP"
Neeko would like to point out again that NAA used their ability on Alison which would mean mafia knew NAA's role and probably just killed NAA since that role is actually pretty strong at possibly getting 2 green checks a cycle.

You know what, if you make a full read on Neeko at least you'll be doing better than Mac who just echo'd Urist's read and left.

No offense Sloonei but you talk about c4 not making an effort to push their reads, but you've yet to actually push Neeko in any meaningful way to push your worldview that Neeko is Mafia.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:34 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:29 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:27 pm Why does LinearPoint seem to be a consensus town read?

Which parallel universe are you from?
Pretty sure that is no where near close to a consensus.

I live in the universe in which you are not receiving any votes as we look to consolidate onto our top 8 suspects.

Neeko was at like 6, 5 hours ago.
Plus the only think you've said is

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:37 am Linearpoint maf

in your 3rd post of D1 and haven't elaborated at all on that just asking why Neeko isn't being top scum read.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:27 pm Why does LinearPoint seem to be a consensus town read?

Which parallel universe are you from?
Pretty sure that is no where near close to a consensus.

But again neeko thinks it can come from either Town or Mafia Paopan and is closer to NAI.
Paopan probably is a protective though. Not sure if there is a protective in the Mafia or not. There's been a lot of NKs and dayvigs so some protection is possible.

Neeko may be wrong about order of events but Paopan claimed Lie Detector out of the blue not Protective.
Still an out of the blue claim long before dayend.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:20 pm What do you all make of Paopan claiming protective role out of the blue?

Neeko commented on that.
Paopan in Fortune of Lies did the same thing when slightly pressured (they were Mafia Lie Detector).
Paopan is very quick to claim as Mafia, Neeko hasn't played with Town!Paopan to know if they also do so as Town, but Neeko suspects that personality trait carries over.

Neeko thinks Creature is just trying to reaffirm that we cannot even remotely reach a consensus.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:13 pm Paopan/Belzy/TonyStarkPrime/DrWilgy

Who is wolf here?

Guillotine/alexa/Phil and Gloria/ilario

What about here?

To choose exactly one from each?

Probably TPS and Mac.

Paopan is back and forth possibly scum possibly Town so it's a coinflip.
Belzy seems to have some information that might point to them being Town, but wont say because of soup.
TSP pretty much drove the EoD.
Wiggly and Dizzy's interactions look pretty bad for Wiggly.
TSP > Wiggly > Paopan
Probs not Belzy unless Belzy lives a long while

Gullio has been off and on, Neeko isn't sure but leaning scum.
Alexa seemed to have a scummy start, but Nutella flip actually looks pretty good for Alexa.
Mac Neeko has been balancing between a Null and Scumlean all game and Mac just feels likely to be picked by a Mafia Captain which Dizzy flip kind of implies happened.
ilario basically confirmed.
Mac > Gullio > Alexa
Probs not ilario unless he never dies in which case might have been a bus shot since both were at high votes when it occured.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:10 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:00 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:00 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:59 pm Still pretty sure 112 can only be at worst a 3p.
Not really in favor of uping them.

Think we can get wolf within DrWilgy, sabie12 and TonyStarkPrime?

Honestly probably more than one. Like 2-3.

no shot you actually believe this right?

Well TSP has bad EoD and Dizzy's posts look like heavy distancing from you.
So if you and TSP aren't both scum that's impressive.
Sabie also has been generally ify so even if 1 of you and TSP flipped Town then Sabie is still an above average chance to flip scum.
So yeah. 2-3.

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:10 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:05 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:04 pm This day is still pretty chaotic and feels like everybody is being defended for some shit reason

To be fair, when the host basically asks everyone to give their top 8 scum it'd be a miracle if a consensus was agreed upon.

but we can't even settle on a single wolf

There are 21 names and all of them seem to be defended by someone

TBF if everyone agreed then it would probably make that person a villager lol

That's pretty much why Wiggly wagon slowed down.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:06 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:05 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:04 pm This day is still pretty chaotic and feels like everybody is being defended for some shit reason

To be fair, when the host basically asks everyone to give their top 8 scum it'd be a miracle if a consensus was agreed upon.

but we can't even settle on a single wolf

There are 21 names and all of them seem to be defended by someone

We've done a somewhat good job at choose who not to vote up.
But yeah. Wiggly, Sig, and Mac are like the closest to a consensus.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:04 pm This day is still pretty chaotic and feels like everybody is being defended for some shit reason

To be fair, when the host basically asks everyone to give their top 8 scum it'd be a miracle if a consensus was agreed upon.

With probably Sabie being least likely to flip sucm.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:00 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:59 pm Still pretty sure 112 can only be at worst a 3p.
Not really in favor of uping them.

Think we can get wolf within DrWilgy, sabie12 and TonyStarkPrime?

Honestly probably more than one. Like 2-3.

Still pretty sure 112 can only be at worst a 3p.
Not really in favor of uping them.

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:55 pm

112 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:44 pm uhh, recanting my seanzie read if it matters at this point

marmot, sabie, dizzy are all good suspects imo

and i could easily see BK as a wolf in this one

does anyone know how 112 is as wolf/does he bus? if not this post may be a fairly good look

That's what Neeko said. 112 pretty much can't be mafia.
No Mafia would ever bus 2 allies in one of their first posts.

Honestly 112 could very well just be a 3p. They kinda have the vibe they aren't Town, but Dizzy pretty much cleared 112 as not mafia.

Currently
Sig (9)
Wiggly (8)
mac (8)
c4 (6)
HK (6)
Sabi (6)
TSP (6)

That's top 7
Final one is randomed between Paopan, MR, and 112 atm

Although the dayvigs won probably could have just not shot day 1.

Pretty sure alexa won it through the rock, paper, scissors tourney.

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:11 pm I WON A DAY VIG TOO it's day 1 only

Maybe Neeko misread something thinking it was an MR post. She remembers seeing something that looked very townie, but isn't finding it now that's she's looking for it again.

Actually Neeko might resend their Paopan town read for claiming.
Neeko distinctly remembers the exact defense Paopan used as Mafia in Fortune of Lies was to claim and act confirmed for claiming.
Neeko might need to also check Paopan's last Mafia game, but Paopan being quick to claim when pressured is a Mafia!Paopan thing to do.

Honestly Neeko's seen some good points on MR today, so Neeko's null read has shifted to a slight town read.