The Syndicate

Hey everyone, My cousin had his birthday yesterday, and I wasn't in a positing state of mind after 6 Whiskey Sours and a couple shots of vodka and a brownie sundae. Will catch up. I had got a few pages in and realized it wasn't Day 0 any longer RIP.

Oh and also, with mod color, change your forum style...that black and Green do.

I think you're putting way too much effort into the evolution process. Early game votes are probably just going to be someone you know.

Jack being specific about his list and then kind of being a stickler about others, and asking like a bunch of, not-leading questions...not rhetorical questions per say feels pretty Jack. Trying to break the game is something Jack would do as any alignment. I feel inclined to town lean Jack cus I like him right now, just funny to me that he's already getting into lively discussions about it.

I WILL UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BE VOTING FOR DYS THIS PHASE. FIGHT ME

Town read her, only real impression of Day 0 to day 1 activity. (she posted a gif...the only reason (eye roll(triple parenthetical)))

I had good feels from Speed, I liked how he approached the voting day 0 and to this point was the only person to say who he voted for. It's interesting both from a Spew perspective, and how I would have voted Day 0. Seems causal and fun.

DDL...if just because he's having a very specific argument about very small things with Jack. They're not Thunderdoming currently so I'm inclined to keep around. I like someone that nitpicks with Jack over his nitpicks.

About the only person that had a post that bothered me was G-Man, he expressed concern over fear of giving Mafia more power (think it was something along of the lines about being non-chalant about the process), First...it was N0 how evolution votes being anything but non chalant? 2nd, By numbers our evolution vote far exceed Mafia's. Mafia will always be able to Evolve one person each phase, regardless if a town votes for them. If a townie just happens to randomly vote for scum early in the phase, it's really not going to effect them in a positive manner. Additionally losing a stray vote on a mafia isn't going to hurt the town in the grand scheme of things, just because of probability. Expressing concern about danger over evolution votes to try and stop an almost null benefit is problematic. I think I may have played with him once so don't know if it's AI yet.

If you didn't make the list congrats, I haven't had the chance to be wrong about you yet.

One more post in a string of posts. I'm so glad the site came back and the game finally started. I liked playing here in those other two games, so good to be back, and policy lynch nut for fooling me last game (seriously not serious about being serious about that)

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:55 pm What is thunderdoming

Two men enter one man leave


WHO RUNS BARTER TOWN? WHOOOOOO RUNNNS BARTER TOWN

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:21 pm Nah. I think youre town.

And I dont think you are saying town arent allowed to disagree, but you seem to be under the impression there is a hard limit on how much Im allowed to bicker with you if I say I agree with your idea. There isnt, Ill bicker with you everytime you say something I think its wrong no matter how much Im willing to cooperate with you.

Btw, the ship of coordinating the second round of evolution votes is about to sail too, in case you haven't noticed.

I was saying I don't think the argument was Thunderdoming, looked very much like pedantic Town v pedantic Town.

A vote list is just essentially a reads list at this point. I mean I don't think specifically having to point out who you're voting for, it's should be safely assumed if you're town you're giving a point to someone in your green range.

Most info lynches, then inactive. I don't really say a ton of lynches Day 1 that would give us a lot of info currently. Not many people have taken a strong stand about someone else yet.

ASIDE FROM MY READ ON DYS..FIGHT ME

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:08 pm I can see the reasoning behind a Timmer vote. But I'm not ready to vote him quite yet. I must have missed why neverwhere voted for nutella, though.

It was an accident because he wasn't familiar with the format, been a while since he played etc, etc.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm Coordinating is not game-breaking. Sorry Jack.

But I must disagree. Coordinating, even without confirmed results, still provides RESULTS. And that's what we want. We want evolutions to happen. We want Raichus and Venasaur and Charizard and whatever else, I haven't played pokemon.

Rather accurate, all are evolved pokemons.

Though I wouldn't even know if half this list evolved...Gen 1 purist

Oh shit, it is? Lol rip for not reading the sign up thread.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:51 pm

Fredwood wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:24 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm Coordinating is not game-breaking. Sorry Jack.

But I must disagree. Coordinating, even without confirmed results, still provides RESULTS. And that's what we want. We want evolutions to happen. We want Raichus and Venasaur and Charizard and whatever else, I haven't played pokemon.

Rather accurate, all are evolved pokemons.

Though I wouldn't even know if half this list evolved...Gen 1 purist

Technically, I've barely played to the first tourney in Pokémon yellow, so I guess I can agree. The heck is a Pichu, right?

A mountain in Peru?

Could always vote a no poster I guess. I feel the same way cus I missed everyone.

yeah that's pingy for the same reason I got pinged by G.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:27 pm @Fred/LC

Can you explain why that is pingy?

I touched on it in my first wall when talking about G-MAN

The benefit of town vote on town is greater then the benefit of a Town vote on mafia. Mafia can level no matter what, so having even a partial record for who pointed someone can be very useful as white noise for who you do vote for, giving some kind of idea who is evolved, and a starting point for investigation.

Just because something MAY help mafia to give targeting priority is not a reason to withhold information from the town, even if it's as simple as Speed saying he gave a point to LC. Just seems counter productive to dwell on the negatives when the evolution mechanic benefits the town more then it does Mafia to a ridiculous degree.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:09 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:04 pm I think voting for people who didn't even post is a waste. They are likely to get replaced eventually. We learn next to nothing from those lynches.

I kinda disagree.

Mass Effect was partially determined by some weak replacement of townies.

I had a hell of a hard time finding mafia in the last Hybridity game as two of the four mafia members replaced out and basically got to skate for ~4 phases.

With 24 hour phases, is a prompt replacement realistic?

Who's lynch so you think we'd learn the most from at this point? Already knowing my alignment and having not tied any two other players together, a silent lynch tells me roughly the same thing as any other, that is "the alignment of a player."

Of course, there's stuff yet to be learned in the actual choosing of a specific player.

+1. Phenom as well. I think DDL isn't making a distinction between pairing the inactives and getting information.

An inactive lynch is perfectly acceptable, from even just watching champs and the few other places I've played, if you don't really learn a lot from other lynches. If all your choices are low info lynches, lynch the inactive.

DDL if you want us to lynch an non inactive, tell me which lynch you think nets us the most information?

Should read if you don't want to lynch a no-poster, where do you want to go, and why will it give us more info then a no poster at this point in the game?

Day 1 votes are the most WIFOMy lynches ever usually takes like 3 votes anyway. On top of that no posters probably haven't evolved or won't evolve.

So even if they're town, not only will they screw up EOD, we're gonna spend most of the game underpowered.

Also, DDL, your answer avoided the question. I said who, not theoretically who. Who do you wish to lynch, Boo Wilgy, Jack, or LC, and what do you think theIR flip will tell you in day 2?

Or what does a Timmer lynch flip tell you?

Let me rephrase it, how strong is your read on Timmer? If it was day 4 would your read on him be lynchable?

There's 3 ways non-mechanically to evaluate people. Vote interactions, In-thread contents, and interactions with characters who have flipped.

Granted a no-poster can come in and create in thread content But we'll never get any reads on any interactions on voting and post flip interactions. Everything is cumulative, leaving us at a disadvantage for the sake of "info", the info we get from keeping them alive is less then we get for "wasting" a lynch on a person we have to deal with anyway.

Holding out hope that they'll come in an contribute when they haven't bothered to post one time to even say that they're busy and I'll be back X to catch up is naive.

Would you agree that most d1 reads are flimsy at best?

I know you think there's information gleaned, I used to agree with the assessment. Most often day 1 mislynch can create frame fuel as well.

There is some to be gathered yes, but the information we lose by keeping an inactive alive outweighs it.


Then again there's always the potential that I'm spewing this to insulate myself against a Jack flip.

Frankly I am at a point of a crossroads on the inactive issue. I used to be rather against them because they teach us nothing. I've seen so many games ruined, not just because of late game mislynch possibility, but also because it just drains the fun of the game, It's hard to find out if someone is lying to you if they're not talking to you. I just think there has to be an early game happy medium between the two.

Isn't cute subjective? Is that really considered claiming? Not a lot of experience with no role claim games, so it's a legit question, not a lawyering question.

Isn't cute subjective? Is that really considered claiming? Not a lot of experience with no role claim games, so it's a legit question, not a lawyering question.

lol oh Gible...I had no idea that was a claim, I thought it was a typo (Gen 1 purist)

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:54 pm My opinion with the inactive issue is that if they don't come by day 2 the host should just kill them all.

Epi will probably not do it, but he will probably replace them, and statistically it's not that hard to get 2 people. When he does, everything goes to normal.

Lynching them now is rushing things. Heck, it's a easy way for mafia to get a vote without having to confront anyone, which they hate. They don't even have to justify this vote.

I've seen the opposite to be true, null town slots always stay around because of these built in arguments.

I'm voting timmer to force a random lynch. Because I don't want to vote for Jack for no apparent reason.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:59 pm

Fredwood wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:58 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:54 pm My opinion with the inactive issue is that if they don't come by day 2 the host should just kill them all.

Epi will probably not do it, but he will probably replace them, and statistically it's not that hard to get 2 people. When he does, everything goes to normal.

Lynching them now is rushing things. Heck, it's a easy way for mafia to get a vote without having to confront anyone, which they hate. They don't even have to justify this vote.

I've seen the opposite to be true, null town slots always stay around because of these built in arguments.

So you're arguing Epi will just choose not to replace them?

I tend not to talk about mod activity, it's viewed as bad form at other places, so as a policy I try to avoid it and just depend on our ability to solve the game ourselves. But, as a mod, I know how hard it is to find a replacement.

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:49 pm Interesting result. Not a very strategic kill. I suspect it's someone with experience playing against Jack.

RIP.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:20 pm Darn. I wanted to keep Jack around.

Feel like Sprityo and Fredwood might have killed Jack n1. Maybe DDL. Gut feelz.

These are bad. Opening the phase with two NK analysis in a mixed meta is unproductive at the least, the fact that there are two within the first two posts is very concerning.

NK analysis in general is just too unreliable for accurate information anyway, so it's concerning if it is two independent sources. My brain tells me only one of these are scum, I pinged G-man earlier and town credded Speed so I'm going to vote G-Man, also his statement is the more "leading" of the two trying to force people to a conclusion that they think they came to on their own. Speed's is more specific and open to debate (thought it's interesting to note that Dys isn't on this list)

Also, as a WIFOM argument for you, it has been a long long time since I've killed Jack as scum, I'd rather beat Jack then to not have to deal with him.

That should read two in the first few posts not two within the first two.

I'd disagree, but not interested in arguing about how many people find it more useful or not. Point is I don't it's WIFOMY.

So I have to choose between two meta wagons on 2 people I've never played with.


THIS'LL BE FUNNNNN

I'm inclined to vote Timmer because I like boo's avatar more. I mean that might as well be as much input I have on those two.

Sigh 20 minutes, 6 non voters and myself not on either lynch. 2 probably won't vote, which means 5 possible votes. This might get, interesting?

28 minutes my bad. Dys and Elo I guess could vote though, I just realized I don't recall a single Tink post either, there must have been one or so. G-Man forcing a coin flip or a vote change from someone concerns me that neither are scum.

I speak their names and they both appear.



I might have superpowers.

Forcing a tie, argument against timmer is more convincing, at least from a meta perspective

See if someone flinches.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:34 pm About to leave gym, let's see what I missed

He says innocently

I was mostly joking, though I don't know how the vote is gonna go. Interesting stuff went down.

So there's still no answer if the vote at EoD was a tie? It's kind of what I was waiting for too, because to have two low attention players come in right at EoD, one to break the tie, seems off.

Also still putting out the possibility that a scum G-man would definitely abstain from that vote if both wagons were civ. Problem is Tink voted G-man and Tinks appearance and non vote was incredibly suspect. Doubling down on not voting for town wagons by two scummates, seems like it would be a risky play if G-Man and Tink were W/W

Elo, again is problematic, but she's tied to a Boo flip now.

I didn't realize the question was about polls it was about whether they were tied, but fine.

Wow G-man not understanding why I would want to tie a vote that was being decided by a low-poster that magically appeared at EoD to vote. Especially when he was conveniently abstaining from a vote.

Actually I voted for you until EoD and have been saying your activity at EoD was suspect also I never said you trying to force a tie I said you didn't care who got lynched, very different. Listing a long list of stuff and not coming away with anything other then OMGUS isn't very strong either, and self-quoting your analysis at someone who hasn't really gotten any traction on his read of you.

If you can't see a reason in trying to force a flinch then gif posting could be fun. On top of that, the majority of day 1 was theory crafting about how to determine how to distribute evolution points, then we got into a debate about inactive lynching day 1, so acting like anyone had teeth day 1 is patently silly. Forgetting that caveat I had a number of positive reads, like Speed, like Dys, like Jack and like DDL...some of them were emphatic town reads. So if townclearing someone in my mind isn't as effective scum hunting /shrug. I also have suspicions and I tied the vote to see if I got a reaction jump, the fact that I didn't (when no one knew how ties were resolved) tells me that scum didn't necessarily care about d2 lynch and boo is at least cleared for this phase in my mind. But hey, I'm not doing anything.

self-quoting your meta analysis at me should be there left out the meta part.

Forcing a tie or getting someone to decide the vote...The fact that it's a tie didn't matter to you...what's hard about this to understand.

I was actively interested in forcing a tie, you were actively interested in not being involved in either wagon. See the difference?

Also, I said concerns, I was stating a thought about your abstention, not as proof of guilt. In actuality your push back on the point is more AI then the action for me. There's town reasons for abstention, just as much as there are scum reasons for abstention, and it wasn't part of the case I was building cus frankly I wasn't really building a case. I mentioned that you pinged me, and mentioned a second time when something you did pinged me and that's the 3rd ping. Instead of explaining actions or thoughts that ping me you ad hominem and say I'm doing nothing and passing the buck.

Plus I was rather specific about why I felt your NK was off, I don't like NK analysis but first post felt like a leading manipulative analysis designed to get people to come to a conclusion on their own, it's open ended. I TR Speed for his specific NK analysis.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:50 pm

Fredwood wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:47 pm Forcing a tie or getting someone to decide the vote...The fact that it's a tie didn't matter to you...what's hard about this to understand.

I was actively interested in forcing a tie, you were actively interested in not being involved in either wagon. See the difference?

I had zero confidence in either option. That's a far cry from being indifferent to the outcome.

That's fine, but you presented no other alternative push, or at least not at the time, I can't see if you had a vote on anyone from earlier. Even if no one follows you it's a stance. I wasn't saying oh G-Man is totes scum for abstention I said it concerns me because it could mean both wagons are town if he's scum. It's not a tonal read, that's a strategic move one way or another. In fact nothing about my pings on you has been tonal, all 3 where for specific actions you took.

I also had zero confidence in the lynch and said as much because so much of the pushes were based on meta analysis. However I used the lynch to give myself more information.

I never voted for Timmer. Of the two, I made a decision because I felt the arguments were more compelling.

And again, I was there at EOE mentioned how many votes had not been cast and was mentioning who probably weren't going to vote. When two of them came on and voted. I even mentioned casually that I was going to vote timmer because of avatar, half jokingly.

Elo votes, which as I already stated the reasons about timing being concerning, so in my mind if that's a ping, I'm not letting a ping decide a vote especially for someone who I think looks better (boo). So I tied it to let the fates decide and to see if anyone switched or voted after I did. No one did which means Scum wasn't around (but I threw shade at Spirit when he said, oh I don't know what happened, right after EoD half joke half serious) or scum didn't care about the lynch because it was a villa villa lynch.

So I made the best of a bad situation.

Oh I guess I voted Timmer Day 1 to save Jack who I had as a town lean, so yeah. That had less to do with Timmer and more to do with the crappy reasons Jack was being voted for, said as much in the post I voted Timmer.

Fredwood wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:16 pm
So I made the best of a bad situation.

Much like the 2016 election. Not very binary, it was obvious with 2 minutes left that boo or timmer were going to be lynched. No one was on any other train but my lone vote on you. So binary thinking is rather unfair, trinary thinking maybe.

Also, I did not have a town read on either boo or timmer, both were null, but a Villa/Villa was likely if you were scum.