The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:30 am Strongly pro-civilian

• Open setup heavy in unique roles (if reveals are legal)

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:56 am Soup Kill: At night, instead of making the group Night Kill, a witch (mafia) may instead choose to drink Soup. Doing so allows them to Match a player to an Innocent role one at a time until they are incorrect or choose to stop. Each correctly Matched player dies.

A successful Match will only give the 'so and so died' message. On an incorrect match, the message is 'Xanthippe the Witch attempted to Soupkill Yolanda the [incorrect role], but failed', but if no players have been killed that night with Soup, the identity of the Witch is not revealed - 'A Witch attempted to Soupkill Amelia the [incorrect role], but failed'.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:05 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:30 am Strongly pro-civilian

• Open setup heavy in unique roles (if reveals are legal)

I want to talk about this because you said, in your Greece sign-up thread, that it doesn't work. I agree that it doesn't work by itself. However...

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:56 am Soup Kill: At night, instead of making the group Night Kill, a witch (mafia) may instead choose to drink Soup. Doing so allows them to Match a player to an Innocent role one at a time until they are incorrect or choose to stop. Each correctly Matched player dies.

A successful Match will only give the 'so and so died' message. On an incorrect match, the message is 'Xanthippe the Witch attempted to Soupkill Yolanda the [incorrect role], but failed', but if no players have been killed that night with Soup, the identity of the Witch is not revealed - 'A Witch attempted to Soupkill Amelia the [incorrect role], but failed'.

This is the counter. This is possibly my favorite mechanic in any mafia game ever, this and things like it. I've played 4 games with the 'soupkill' mechanic, and not only does it allow for awesome multi-kills, but it provides options for claiming should the players think it worth it and natural consequences for when it wasn't worth it.

I've got a game with this mechanic lined up as a side-mission, but it'd be really cool to see stuff more like it. From a balance perspective, what do you think of it?

To ensure I follow properly -- in this scenario the witch would potentially be able to kill more than one civilian in one night phase via this matching method. True or no?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:09 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:08 pm Chainkill for every role you successfully match. Until you get it wrong or stop.

And this is done only once, or whenever the witch wants?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:41 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:18 pmthey get revealed.

The whole team, or the player doing the guessing?

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:01 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:53 pmIf I have a concern, it's that this mechanic might invite claim behavior which ends up dictating who the mafia team has to kill to survive. Without that free agency, they are handicapped.

It would probably dictate mafia kill strategy from the off. You are forced to kill people who don't claim or hint over people who do. Conversely, as a civilian, it would potentially behoove you to claim or hint in the short term, or create a metagame in which you claim or hint at things you are not. It's certainly an interesting mechanic, but I tend to think town playing well could virtually ensure it was effectively Fool's Gold.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:03 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:05 am

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:22 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:17 pm I disagree with the green most wholeheartedly, but I understand the rationale. When you host, what I find is that in most cases they slowly drop away anyway, but if they do stay it's generally not to plot, it's to hang out, and it keeps the morale high associated with being mafia (which is a rather thankless task). As a civilian, I don't really agree that the reason you lynched someone was to get them out of chat. It was because you caught them and they were bad. Or to get rid of their ability.

I don't mind if they stay to chat or whatever. But a dead scummer is dead and the players in the game believe him or her to be out of it and not influencing any scum decisions. He or she should have no influence on the game just like a dead townie shouldn't. Just cos they have BTSC and not a public thread doesn't make it ok.

It's like if there were two masons, and one died, does s/he go on playing the game in BTSC with the other mason, cos why not?

nah, it's bad.

Well obviously you exclude players who have info.

- Mafia
- Anyone with BTSC
- Cops/tracker/watcher with unclaimed results
- Anyone whose role was hidden when they died.

that's not what I meant. I meant the mafia team wanted a player dead, they sacrificed a NK to kill that player and were successful. Having that player, even if he/she is eligible because they didn't have any background power role info, replace an inactive or whatever, isn't fair on the mafia team. The player who was killed and is now a replacement, with his/her reads and biases that the mafia team didn't want influencing the game anymore and successfully got rid of, has returned. To haunt them a second time!

I would never allow dead players to return, personally.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:15 pm same deal for me. It messes up the balance of the game. The mafia could have pushed that lynch. Or even not, town lynched them. They get a second chance at reading that player more accurately.