The Syndicate

juliets wrote:$1000

I have a question that I hope someone can answer. Let's say I'm Baltic Ave. Let's further say llama lands on and buys Mediterranean Ave, my partner. In the night I find Mediterranean, snowy. Now, llama's got the card but Snowy is the card. Can snowy and I still put up houses? What are the consequences of llama having the card?

S~V~S wrote:

Degobunny wrote:I am finding it really hard to post on this site. Every time I finish writing something I need to login again and it erases what I typed out on my pad.

When you log in, do you have "Log me on automatically each visit" checked? The last person this happened to resolved the issue by clicking that. If you do have that checked, then not sure what about this site would be causing that.

And not sure about bidding on any of these yet, initially I want to be more conservative with my money.

And I am still trying to figure out which option, search for partners or NOT search for partners, would benefit the rail/utilities more. Standard civvies, no BTS with purchased powers, but civvie win conditions OR indies building monopolies and potential hotels that will require the baddies to shell out real $$? I think FZ asked this question originally, and I don't think anyone really addressed the issue.

I definitely think that discussing what would most benefit the baddies should be the big topic.

Standard civvies would make it easier for the non-rails/utils to win, but going the other route might make it HARDER for the baddies to win, might present more competition. I could see going wither way, although, I find it unlikely that every civ will agree to do the non search thing, pretty much rendering it moot. Because you can pledge not to search all you want, if someone else finds you, it still affects your status & win conditions.

@boo~ if someone who is the member of a completed monopoly is lynched, will their Monopoly status as well as their card be revealed? Since being in a monopoly has effected their win conditions, and they are no longer really a "civ"? And if the member of a monopoly is deaded, does the remainder of the team revert to civ, or are they still a LMS team?

I need to reread the rail/util sections of the host posts.

Turnip Head wrote:

juliets wrote:Can someone tell me what this means:

6. LoRab = 12 (6+6), Electric Company (roll is 3+1=4*10, EC gets $40 from bank, learns role).

Does that mean the person who is the Electric Company (which i believe is a utility thus a baddie) learns Lorab's role? I don't remember reading that anywhere but I can't think of anything else it means.

I had to look it up too since it pertained to me. If you land on a utility they will learn your role and get money from the bank.

After Day 1, the utilities rolechecked Elo, Lorab and me, and they earned $190 from the 3 of us landing there.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is

Communication doesn't really make a difference if there's no way to verify compliance or detect cheating, which there isn't here.

FZ. wrote:llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?

I am never scared. I am fearless. But even if I was scared, it wouldn't alter the irrefutibility of my logic.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is

Communication doesn't really make a difference if there's no way to verify compliance or detect cheating, which there isn't here.

FZ. wrote:llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?

I am never scared. I am fearless. But even if I was scared, it wouldn't alter the irrefutibility of my logic.

There is no way to verify, but why should it matter to you if you're a civ who doesn't agree with this strategy? If anyone should care about not following the strategy it's the civs who don't want the other civs to look for their sets. So, the fact you're fighting for this so strongly makes me think you have a sinister agenda

Look, you do what you want. I am using my night power to try to complete my monopoly and I think others would be foolish not to do so as well. The naive one or two people who follow this strategy will be left as a civ team of one or two people without BTSC. That's what's going to happen. I am just telling the truth and not trying to gin up support for a strategy that goes against human nature and leaves the credulous out to dry. I will also be voting for one of the supporters of the strategy, most likely Long Con at this point.

Long Con wrote:So, say S~V~S (random name) gets lynched today, and she ends up being St Charles Place. Lorab wins the bid and gets St Charles place.

Next lynch, we assume that Lorab won the bid because she is States Ave or Virginia Ave, and we lynch her on Day 2 for trying to get a colour group together.

Is there another scenario anyone has (names aside) for how this is going to go? Is everyone going to be scared to bid for a lynched player's property? What happens to that property if no one bids on it?

thellama73 wrote:LC, if we try to lynch people for trying to get color groups together at this early stage in the game, we are never going to get the railroads and the utilities, who I still perceive as the real enemies.

thellama73 wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?

I don't understand your point.

I am distressed at the direction this thread has gone. I am barely paying attention to this game with all the other stuff I have going on, and it took me exactly two seconds to see why the "civs ignore all the gifts the host has given you" strategy is terrible. I can't believe how easily the flock is being led into bad decisions.

Look, building hotels is the only way we can get money (barring a few chance cards and an occasional pass go.) The Mafia have ample ability to make money and use it to buy property and other goodies, while at the same time depleting our money. If we run out of money, we die. This strategy hands victory to the railroads and utilities. Please think about it for two seconds before posting a reactionary NO U response. You, MM, Long Con, and Keys are working on behalf of the baddies with this sort of talk.

thellama73 wrote:I can't help but be a little $u$piciou$ of the people voting for Epigno$i$. Fell$ like an ea$y lynch train, if you know what I mean.

zeek wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I don't think Epi is bad, or at least I don't think he has BTSC yet... but if he has a majority vote 10 minutes before deadline you can bet your $weet bippy that I'll vote for him and then try to take his card.

Yeah, pretty sure this will be standard. Not criticising at all, but we'll all probably do this at some point and vote patterns won't be that helpful. It's also going to make bandwagons very likely amd less likely to result in a mafia lynch.

I understand the thoughts on Epi but don't necessarily agree. I expected some people to flash the cash early and I'm not that surprised its him. Dunno, as usual he's not defending himself so its hard to tell what to make of it

Turnip Head wrote:Can we still bid on the dice roll? I'll bid the current + 25 on that.

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:Epig,

Why did you bid so much? Where were you expecting to get more money from for the other stuff?

I'm eccentric.

I plan to get rich by people landing on my property.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I have a theory.

The more money he will bet on a power, the more likely another player will check him tonight in the hope that they can partner up with the equal color, being that it would be convenient to have that power on your team. Meaning that the money might return back to him in the future. It might be a gamble, but that'll be the name of the game.

I hadn't thought of that.

Epignosis wrote:It probably won't. You wanted to know how I would get money- I plan to get money the very way anyone in Monopoly would get money. Luck.

Turnip Head wrote:FZ pulled my bid out of a pile of bids, subtly wording her question to be accusatory. When I responded and asked why she picked my bid among many to pick on, I was ignored.

Turnip Head wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Can we still bid on the dice roll? I'll bid the current + 25 on that.

What do you get out of giving someone another dice roll?

I would use it for myself to get to Go faster and get more cash.

Why did you single out my bid to ask a question like this?

Boogs wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:Of course, I'd just like to say right now (for any murderous, property-hungry baddies that are reading) that if I ever win the bid for a property, it will IMMEDIATELY be put up for private trade, and be gone from my possession before the next night kill lands.

What if I don't believe you?

That doesn't sit right to me because why would he waste the money to get the card? Sounds like a bluff. This game is making me go crazy because it's like you are almost scared to win a card or a power because you're the target. But at the same time if we don't win things and let the bad teams win it, then we are not going to have any combat defenses.

zeek wrote:Hold on, this protect power is only good for protecting someone else? Glad I was outbid :P

I'm not sure where I stand on suspicions, not many standout things in my mind. This is the main one:

FZ. wrote:Nice job lynching Made.

Here's a thought. There are 3 players who would love to get their hands on the card. What if we pick someone who is the most trusted in the game (of course we vote on that), which granted is hard to pick at the moment, but still, and we let them make the bid. It's a risk, because we could end up picking a baddie, but on the other hand, all other players can't hide behind "I'm trying to prevent the baddies from getting it" excuse, and if one of the players falls on it later on, and the money is doubled, we know that person was bad in the first place.

This may have been a way to ensure the baddies could kill two birds with one stone: NK and take the card, and eliminate a trusted person. This has my attention.

zeek wrote:

FZ. wrote:No, it was just a bad idea apparently, first, because I didn't think through the fact that they would just kill the person who won the bid, and second, because I didn't know that the RR would still show 25. If you want a lynch me for being being stupid, go ahead, I deserve it

That's one way to make me not vote for you

Let me ask you then, if we'd have gone with your plan who would you have chosen? Your most trusted?

Hedgeowl wrote:

FZ. wrote:Asking again:

What happens if no one bids on a property?
Because if we decide we don't bid and baddies do, we know they're baddies, and if they're too scared to bid on them too, they don't get them?

I cant imagine any baddie actaully doing that though. Its a good thought not bidding, but what baddie would out themselves that way. Another thought would be to bid last minute so you cant be nkd for the card that night and then sell it as LC said he would do.

Turnip Head wrote:FZ, I couldn't find anything on it in the rules, but if it works like Powers that get no bid, the rule might look something like this:

Any power that receives no bids will be available for purchase at the starting bid, with the person who buys it posting in the thread that they would like to do so. If, within 30 minutes of that post, anyone else ups the amount they will pay for it (any amount), that person gets it (and the 30 minute rule still applies)

Maybe properties work the same way.

Elohcin wrote:

FZ. wrote:I just saw that I stepped on the baddies property. Great, they get $240 for 3 people stepping on that (unless one of them is the baddie), and they learn their property. I guess if they find people's properties, that will factor in in their choices of bidding

Where do you see this?

Long Con wrote:

FZ. wrote:I just saw that I stepped on the baddies property. Great, they get $240 for 3 people stepping on...

Yeah... by my spreadsheet, Electric Company is up $480. The second biggest net earner is Metalmarsh at +$200. So if MM is Electric Company he's so rich!

Epig seems to be down the most, at -$500, from his big bid on the Chance card (will you let us know when you use it, Ep? Are you using it yourself or someone else? Is it Chance or Community Chest that can send you Directly To Jail? That would be funny.) Then Hedgeowl seems to be down $375, which I believe was the price she paid for the Windfall.

Ha, I just thought of another reason Epig could give for the early big bid. Maybe the baddies will consider him 'closer to bankruptcy' and avoid wasting their nightkill on a player that is so much closer to death.

Turnip Head wrote:

Long Con wrote:I am watching with half-grinning disbelief at the fervent bidding on Short Line. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

LC doesn't explain his surprised amusement. Look how veiled this is. LC puts himself in bystander mode as the bidding increases. His statement here doesn't have to contain a trace of guilt on it, depending on the interpretation of his tone here. But it looks guilty to me.

I mean, look who STARTED the bidding:

Long Con wrote:Nice result! I bid $1!!

You have to feel like LC was hoping to incite a bidding frenzy with that stunt...

Then I asked the question that didn't breach SVS or MetalM's cranium:

Long Con wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:What happens to any extra cards we win if we get NKed?

The killer gets the extra cards, and your own card.

Now sure, I and perhaps others who didn't bid straight away assumed that this might have to be the case - because I thought about what would happen to someone's stuff if and when they died. But I realized that this answer that LC provides here isn't in the thread. Seriously, go look, I'll eat a hat if it's anywhere in the rules that that's what happens when you die. LC knows it though, and so once the bidding commences he can't help but maniacally smirk. LC's answer to that question must have come from boo from behind the scenes. Which makes me think he has a good reason to ask about it.

Long Con wrote:

fingersplints wrote:Unless whoever wins it is railroad.

I like this post.
They'd better hope they're the railroad with the kill, or else they'll kill one of their own. :o

Just pointing out that this isn't how it works. The railroads can't be NK'd until they've all found each other. The Short Line bidding war was a win-win for the railroads.