The Syndicate

yay, got back from vacation just in time for the start of the game. My favorite accomplishment was as Smaug in Hobbit where I was the SK and won the game singly. I can't remember another game where I played an SK and I always thought it would be impossible to win as that role. I also really loved my role in Fight Club where I got to take notes from each of the towns and send them off to the head civ (can't remember the name) to give him/her some insight into what was going on in all the threads. I was so meticulous about those notes but then I found out that all that time the person I had been sending to was Kate and she was too busy and dropped out of the game. I was so disappointed - all that work and no one was reading it! Lol, such is mafia!

Also, inh you make me laugh!

Dom wrote:Although, I do consider my relative level-headedness in Doctor Who despite my frustration was a pretty big accomplishment as well.

You played an awesome game in Doctor Who and deserved to be a winner.

thellama73 wrote:I just looked back at 2013's Game of Champions, and note that nobody voted for the game I hosted in the Day 0 poll, just as nobody has voted for any of the games I hosted in this Day 0 poll. Why are you people not giving good performances (your best performances!) in games I host?

I voted for your nomination for best host for side games, does that count?

DharmaHelper wrote:Again I should say nothing I find overly suspicious at this moment in time, but I just thought the coincidence was funny. The same sort of scenario coming up in the game that I won to get to this game, now coming up in this game. Cosmically improbable, yet here we are.

As it stands I'm mulling over a vote for LC.

DH can you expand a little on why you are mulling over a vote for LC? What are you seeing?

Made wrote:

juliets wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Again I should say nothing I find overly suspicious at this moment in time, but I just thought the coincidence was funny. The same sort of scenario coming up in the game that I won to get to this game, now coming up in this game. Cosmically improbable, yet here we are.

As it stands I'm mulling over a vote for LC.

DH can you expand a little on why you are mulling over a vote for LC? What are you seeing?

huh...asking a lot of questions this game are we...

Just a thought-- do players conform to their own play style benefit themselves further when they are mafia or just because of predisposition?
Not directed at you in particular Juliet, but also Llama and MP, 3 players who have very unique and recognizable play styles.

This is the first real question I've asked unless you consider this:

juliets wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I just looked back at 2013's Game of Champions, and note that nobody voted for the game I hosted in the Day 0 poll, just as nobody has voted for any of the games I hosted in this Day 0 poll. Why are you people not giving good performances (your best performances!) in games I host?

I voted for your nomination for best host for side games, does that count?

My question for dh is because I haven't seen anything that pinged me and wondered if i had missed something.

reywaS wrote: Really??? So, in essence, S~V~S is getting a pass today?

rey, what are you saying here? Do you think S~V~S should get votes today or are you making a comment that after all the discussion you can't believe metalmarsh isn't voting for her or are you saying something entirely different. I'm having a heck of a time trying to decide who to vote for but I'm getting pings from MM. I have to do some re-reading to see if I can untangle why that would be.

MM's warning about voting him has done just what he wanted it to do - it makes me very wary of giving him my vote. Boomslang is another I would consider voting for and the reasons are summed up quite well by llama:

thellama73 wrote:I think Dom is right. Boomslang is the kind of player I've been looking for. Not too prominent, not too absent, and saying things that don't quite make sense. I'm very happy to vote for Boomslang today.

Oh, but now I see two people have voted him and a third is thinking about it while I've been writing this post. Makes me a little uneasy though I have no suspicions of any of those who just voted or might change their vote to Boomslang.

OK S~V~S, you're right of course, MM could be a baddie hinting at a big civ role to keep additional people from voting for him. It just spooked me but I turned right around and got spooked by the boomslang voters. I hate day 1's.

I have decided to vote MM.

Well damn MM, I'm really sorry I voted for you. RIP.

I'm not sure i understand this tag team event.

linki: dh did you pick by PM? so whoever you picked has to be lucky enough to guess you picked them?

Oh nevermind - I see now we vote in the poll. It was still the old poll when I wrote my post.

I'm picking Dom to be a tag team partner. Dom I hope you are ok with that.

RIP Black Rock, I'll re-read you to see if I can figure out why you would have been a night one target.

Dom, I will unfortunately be away from the computer tomorrow between 10:30 am and 2 pm but will see if I can post from my phone some during that time. Otherwise I'm available!

I apologize but I just got home for the day and want to give Dom another chance to post but haven't read and formed thoughts about whats been said today. I can't do that until a little later so I'm posting in case Dom has something he would like to say now.

Made, as an example, what did you learn about DH in irc and are you saying you know him so well that you've actually played party mafia with him? If so, what did you learn from that experience? S~V~S makes some good points about you I think and I'm not sure where I fall yet on you but this statement about how you know DH's style seems totally off.

Daisy, Snape has potions that we are not privy to so in answer to your question there is a possibility Made's behavior comes from a potion, though I really doubt that is the case.

MP, lots to think about. I had forgotten about TH's post regarding the questions about why made would do something like say he was forced when he wasn't, i.e., how would that help him. I would also like to know the logic in the answers to those questions.

Dom, what does this statement mean:

"A baddie would eliminate themselves as a member of that team, would they not?"

I may just be reading it wrong and not getting the meaning so could you treat me like I'm 3 and explain what you meant?

Thank you Dom, I just didn't read it right. And yes, it does make it seem like he is not on that team.

My head is all over the place on who to vote for tomorrow. I hope Made comes on soon and addresses some of these things that have been asked (well, at least what I have asked). I don't see any reason why he would say he was forced when he wasn't but on the other hand, the stuff about how he knows DH's game just strikes me as a stretch. So, I'm waiting for an answer.

I also sent Epi the question and recieved an answer, and based on that answer can determine Made is a liar. I know there is an argument that says even if he lied about that he may not be bad but I just don't see it that way. Why would a civ lie about that? To get a response? What kind of response? And remember how he said he had some kind of plan if Epi screwed him (not his words but I'm pretty sure I'm paraphrasing)? I thought that was pingy when he said it. So now lets see if he comes up with a reason Epi would not tell us the truth. So, I'm going to go ahead and vote for Made and then if he comes on and defends it to the point I believe him, or something even more concrete comes out about someone else I will change my vote.

Speaking of votes, several people have named DF as someone who could be bad. I read everything he's posted which isn't much and nothing jumped out at me. What is the crux of the argument DF is a baddie? I tried to search to see exactly what people have said about him but you can't search two letters. I also tried to search 'llama' to try and understand a little more about the case against him but it said llama was a word that was too common. Ha! Common?? But anyway, whats up with the DF suspicion?

linky i see made replied so I will read his response before I vote and if there is anything that makes me back down I just won't vote

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

I forgot I also wanted to ask Elo what she finds suspicious about zeek? That was an odd vote in my eye.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

juliets wrote:rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

Wait, what? You're lying.

juliets wrote:I also sent Epi the question and recieved an answer, and based on that answer can determine Made is a liar. I know there is an argument that says even if he lied about that he may not be bad but I just don't see it that way. Why would a civ lie about that? To get a response? What kind of response? And remember how he said he had some kind of plan if Epi screwed him (not his words but I'm pretty sure I'm paraphrasing)? I thought that was pingy when he said it. So now lets see if he comes up with a reason Epi would not tell us the truth. So, I'm going to go ahead and vote for Made and then if he comes on and defends it to the point I believe him, or something even more concrete comes out about someone else I will change my vote.

Speaking of votes, several people have named DF as someone who could be bad. I read everything he's posted which isn't much and nothing jumped out at me. What is the crux of the argument DF is a baddie? I tried to search to see exactly what people have said about him but you can't search two letters. I also tried to search 'llama' to try and understand a little more about the case against him but it said llama was a word that was too common. Ha! Common?? But anyway, whats up with the DF suspicion?

linky i see made replied so I will read his response before I vote and if there is anything that makes me back down I just won't vote

This was your LAST post before your "Rip llama" post.

I became convinced Made was not lying by things that were said after my post including Mades defenses and TH's defending. Note in my post I said if I read Mades post and it made me pause I would not vote for him. I could not post a vote post because Dom had not posted. Also, if I remember correctly llama's post about Mongoose was also after my post (his second post about Mongoose). This is not lying this is changing one's mind. And I am not afraid of being closely looked at because I am civ, not bad or indy. Maybe Boe would like to check my statement.

I was thinking about voting SVS or TH but then I noticed SVS only had one vote and TH none. I think my vote would be wasted if I voted for them. Then I saw they both voted for MP. So, I'm going to vote for MP.

Dom wrote:

juliets wrote:rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

Dom wrote:We know Llama is civ, why aren't there baddies on his list of voters?

I'm not advocating for a witch hunt of Llama voters, but I am using the same logic to reach that conclusion-- one that FZ opposes, apparently. I find that odd, Juliets.

I think there are baddies both in the llama list and the made list. Until FZ. posted people had only talked about baddies in the llama voting list. I was indicating agreement that they were likely to be in the Made voters too. I also believe there could be baddies in the people who voted for other people so they wouldn't have to get involved in the Made vs. llama vote, or maybe people who didn't vote at all. I do not believe that all baddies voted for Made and llama, especially if they are both civ.

bea, I went back and re-read the role description for Tyler and Tylers recruits don't change roles or alignments so it's not like the recruits we are used to from other games. Tyler wins by having more recruits than non-recruits in the game. From reading the description it doesn't look like being a recruit has any bearing on the recruit.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Juliets, thanks for clarifying. I realize now I should have used different language -- "I THINK you're lying" v. "You're lying". Because what I've learned from Cars and other games is that I really just don't know whether you're lying, despite if I really feel like you are.

I understand your reasoning now, but I just wonder why you weren't more transparent with that when you were able to post after the contest was over.

It's odd because you felt strongly about Made lying, but you then voted Llama, so it stuck out to me.

How do you feel about Made now?

MP, lol I didn't play Cars but I understand what you mean in the games we have played together. I think it's because my style is pretty consistent regardless of alignment.

As to why I didn't post when the contest was over I just didn't think about it immediately though I should have. I can understand why you would question that because it did look odd.

As for right now I'm still not inclined to think Made is bad for many of the same reasons as others. Mainly I feel like we must be missing some pieces of the puzzle of the whole forced vote brouhaha. Made very well be bad but I no longer feel there is enough to vote for him. As always, I have to add that further evidence could change my mind.

Russtifinko wrote:

juliets wrote: MP, lol I didn't play Cars but I understand what you mean in the games we have played together. I think it's because my style is pretty consistent regardless of alignment.

So this is not the best example of what I'm pointing out, but it's at least a reasonably decent one until I have time to go back and hunt for one. Lots of people (at least 4 that I've counted, though I forget who) have self-analyzed their play style so far, and this goes as far back as Day 1. Did I miss something and that's normal now, or is it a new norm? In my experience, people saying they're playing their civ game is both pointless (because 1. if they knew they had a "baddie game" then of course they wouldn't play it because it would get them caught and 2. they could be lying) and pingy as hell. It seems mostly like it's being let go this game, though.

As I said, juliets' post isn't the best example. But someone definitely said "I'm playing my civ game" or something very similar a while ago. If I find them, I plan to suspect them, and any help finding them would be appreciated.

I was making a statement for the lie detector, Boe, if he she wanted to check it. Also someone, I think Made, asked several people including me about the contrast in our good and bad alignment behavior. Someone, maybe llama, maybe someone else, answered the question immediately. My impression was thats why they were making that statement. I just can't remember who it was. I think tha'ts what you may be remembering and if i had to guess I would say it was llama.

I don't think the Card Czar could be Hedgeowl Elo because the Car Czar requested cards on our first night and then didn't anymore. Hedgie, as you point out, never even checked in so the chances it was her are slim I think.

I'm not sure i understand - reywas Dom thinks you could be bad and you're shaking your head yes?

Dom one reason I'm kinda hesitant on the theory is back when I played on a bts team with timmer and we were civ, he had a lot of trouble posting because of some things going on in RL. I'm wondering if he's having those same problems because of the post he made. rey I don't know about so it does put a question mark in my mind, though rey too has not been posting much in games recently. It's a theory I'm going to keep in mind as we move forward. I'd like to know what some others think too.

EBWOP: I see now why you are shaking your head yes rey, it's because Dom asked if his ideas are rubbish and you're saying "yes".

Dom, i think reywas can only talk with pictures today. He has 3 posts: two are emoticons and one is a picture. I would like to hear from him regarding your misgivings but I'm not sure thats going to happen today.

juliets wrote: I was making a statement for the lie detector, Boe, if he she wanted to check it. Also someone, I think Made, asked several people including me about the contrast in our good and bad alignment behavior. Someone, maybe llama, maybe someone else, answered the question immediately. My impression was thats why they were making that statement. I just can't remember who it was. I think tha'ts what you may be remembering and if i had to guess I would say it was llama.

Boomslang wrote:Nevertheless, the statement makes a pretty firm commitment to a "civ" game. Because if Boe does check it, and finds it to be false, things could get awfully hairy for you. Unless you're an indy role with some secret that blocks lie detection... Hatter's insanity could be related. Just throwing that out there for consideration.

I don't think we disagree. I am making a firm commitment to a "civ" game. Maybe I'm missing your point but I think we agree.

zeek, what is it about DF that you find suspicious?

I'm thinking about voting Boomslang. In addition to the things others brought up, he made a point of drawing attention to a statement I made about being civvie. He said it put a target on my back which I'm aware of, so why did he even mention it once, much less twice, making the target even bigger. Would a civ do that?

There are also some good points about LC. I sent Epi my question right after LC did and I made it broad. If I can think to do that it seems like master player LC could as well. The only thing is TH (I think it was TH) made a point about LC not posting meaning maybe he is silenced. I won't vote for someone who can't defend.

I'm still scouting others who may get my vote.

SVS my additional ping about Boomslang came because he pointed out not once but twice that I had made a civ aligned statement and therefore had a target on my back. This makes no sense to me - it's like he's pointing at me when if he is a civ, he should just be cool and silent. I really don't understand why he brought it up again after I explained once. This really pinged me in addition to what others have said.

I'm also looking at DF for a possible vote, and LC if I come to believe he's not silenced.

I admit you make a good point there MP. What does he have to gain? Pointing it out to the other team he is not a part of? I don't know, it just struck me all kinds of wrong. I have only played one game with him though so it's news to me he gets lynched for the things you point out. That's a big consideration I have to take into account.

I have reviewed the case on DF and if I decide not to vote Boomslang based on your points here I will probably vote for him. It seems that everyone has mentioned DH so I'll say the DH I see in this game is the DH I associate with civ DH. Unless something else happens I'm not likely to vote for him today or in future days. Let me reiterate "unless something happens" or if i find something in the past I slid right over that becomes important.

If I did this right here is TH's case on DF: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 85#p106185

I am going ahead and voting DF. I still feel queasy about boomslang but MP brings up a good question: whats in it for him if he is bad.

With DF I think TH made a strong case and MP's add on's helped me make up my mind. My only concern is DF hasn't yet responded but if he does and I think it's a strong response I'll move my vote - somewhere, I'm just not sure where.

yay! finally a baddie! look forward to seeing you in a future game DF.

TH good catch!

I can vote for TH, timmer or SVS (MP I only dropped you because you already won a prize). The three are pretty equal in my eyes, I haven't suspected them at all during the game.

I will also be voting for TH.

FZ. wrote:

zeek wrote:For anyone who hasn't voted yet, I would like to propose we go for an early DF voter. I believe TH to be civ, but he voted very late.

I was contemplating that myself, but I was also thinking that an earlier to middle voter could have used the knowledge that DF had negative votes and voted for him planning to change it later if it comes down to it. But when DF started getting all the votes, taking off one vote wouldn't have helped him anyway, so they left the vote.
I remember there was at least one person who said that if something changes their mind, they'll change their vote. Like they were preparing the excuse for later. I just don't remember who it was. Maybe Juliets

I believe I did say that. Is the same not true for you? You vote someone you think is bad and then someone else does something that lets you know they are certainly bad wouldn't you change your vote? That's what I meant by my comment, there was no "excuse preparing".

FZ. wrote:
linki: Isn't that obvious? Why'd you feel the need to say it?

Are you asking me? Or someone else?

juliets wrote:

FZ. wrote:

zeek wrote:For anyone who hasn't voted yet, I would like to propose we go for an early DF voter. I believe TH to be civ, but he voted very late.

I was contemplating that myself, but I was also thinking that an earlier to middle voter could have used the knowledge that DF had negative votes and voted for him planning to change it later if it comes down to it. But when DF started getting all the votes, taking off one vote wouldn't have helped him anyway, so they left the vote.
I remember there was at least one person who said that if something changes their mind, they'll change their vote. Like they were preparing the excuse for later. I just don't remember who it was. Maybe Juliets

I believe I did say that. Is the same not true for you? You vote someone you think is bad and then someone else does something that lets you know they are certainly bad wouldn't you change your vote? That's what I meant by my comment, there was no "excuse preparing".

Ok, so FZ your question is why did I feel the need to say this. In your quote above you laid out there that I said I would change my vote if there was a reason to change it. You further indicated that the statement indicated I was preparing an excuse for later. My answer to you is that I was stating something that would probably be true of anyone who didn't vote at the last minute - that I would change my vote if something currently unknown happened to cause me to change my mind. Many people in this game have said basically the same thing. So, you put out there the idea that I was "excuse preparing", not even acknowledging that there were other reasons to say that, and i corrected you with what I was doing. I don't know why you are confused by why I responded to your statement.

Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling I forgot I also wanted to ask Elo what she finds suspicious about zeek? I was thinking about voting SVS or TH but then I noticed SVS only had one vote and TH none. I think my vote would be wasted if I voted for them.

DharmaHelper wrote:

juliets wrote:Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling I forgot I also wanted to ask Elo what she finds suspicious about zeek? I was thinking about voting SVS or TH but then I noticed SVS only had one vote and TH none. I think my vote would be wasted if I voted for them.

In all seriousness JC can you explain what you were talking about here

Tyler wins by having more recruits than non-recruits in the game.

rip llama.

wow! I am surprised at this one.

Give me a few minutes to write up a post and see about dinner and I'll explain what I can about yesterday.

First, I don't know anything about the Bass/Dom lynch. I went through all the same feelings as you guys on who to vote. I finally decided that if they were both civ it would be better to keep Dom because as a civ (if he was one) he adds value to us as a whole.

As for me, last night I got targeted twice. It wasn't Bavmorda or the Warden or Boddy or the guy who sends you to jail. I could tell by the meat of the two messages that these two messengers were not on the same team because what they asked me to do when you put them both together were in conflict with one another. I of course asked Epi several times what I could and could not tell you guys and his answer is nothing about the message other than I got a message. And nothing about the other targeting communication other than I was double targeted.

I have wracked my brain trying to figure out which two entities to attribute these actions to. One could be Snape. And I can't remember what a horcrux is or does so it's difficult to assess the probability that one of these things was due to a horcrux. Also the mad hatter or gollum or the rogue (she is the one who steals powers right?) could be involved.

I am happy for you to ask questions and will tell you if I can answer them. If I'm not sure I'll ask Epi.

I don't know how much this matters in the context of the game but at least it was something different.