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by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:28 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Posting because Llama said I could.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:33 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

I voted Green Jade hand because jade green is my favourite shade of my favourite colour.

@bullz - as soon as I read the list more fully, I actually wished I had taken the key. If I hadn't just thought 'first in first served' and had taken a little bit more time to think, that's what I would have taken for sure.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:45 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Thanks LC :( now I feel great about my choice...

It didn't even occur to me to think that some of them could be curse items. I just assumed when llama said 'some can confer benefits, some cannot' - that some were good, and others are just there.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:46 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Llama - are you able to indicate which roles are male or female?

Also - I feel sorry for the poor sod who gets left with the handkerchief. Who knows if its even clean?
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:43 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

blindfaeth wrote:Hi everyone! I chose the will. It sounds like it might be helpful after I die.
That's very clever bf - now I wish I had taken that!
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:23 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:That's why it is in a glass box miles away from me lol.
I may do a Dune Mafia one of these days.
Bags being the sandworm! Hang on a minute, did the Sandworm eat people? Or did it really just end up being ridden by Paul a lot. I need to think this through.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:34 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

blindfaeth wrote:So, I already have a suspicion but I am keeping to myself until day 1 to see how everything plays out.

Golden, do you see what I see?
I have had one idea, but I'm also keeping it to myself until I see how day 1 plays out. Will be funny to see if it is the same thing you see lol.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:09 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

FWIW - it is not at all unusual for BF to ask me stuff like that at any point in a mafia game, in fact it's quite common.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:31 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

ShēpInWolfsClothing wrote:First game here. Is there a nomination process, or do we all vote for individuals and whoever has the most votes hangs?
Just like the poll right now, at some point later (day 1) that poll will be all our names, and you vote for who you think is bad. One person, one vote. Generally speaking, it's best not to vote right away (you certainly don't have to)... during the day, there will be discussion of who is bad and good and you can share your views and ultimately vote for the case you think is most compelling.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:50 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

DFaraday wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
juliets wrote:I'm not familiar with Harry Stephen Keeler either so I'm hoping that won't matter.
No one is familiar with Harry Stephen Keeler. He's the most obscure guy ever. But if you are smart, you will seek out and read his books because they are worth it.
He clearly had a gift for creating amazing character names, if nothing else.

And as I'm apparently the last person to check in, I guess I'm getting berries. :shrug2:
Dfaraday eats the berries, gets sick and dies.

That's probably the one option I would have chosen nothing instead of lol.
by Golden
Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:39 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

I'm honestly glad I voted non-sock. The only time I like socks is when I can just leave the sock logged in, so signing up for smashfest means I'd have two things going on... too hard for me!
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:02 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Oh, I hadn't even clicked there were less things than people. By my count, rabbit may not be the last to check in either?
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:51 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

blindfaeth wrote:Welcome shep!
Because shep sounds weird and not at all like sheep and because I can't spell something with that e symbol thing, I've decided I shall dub him wolfysheep.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:56 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

blindfaeth wrote:So, I already have a suspicion but I am keeping to myself until day 1 to see how everything plays out.

Golden, do you see what I see?
As I'm reading back through... because the way you've phrased it makes me now think we are possibly seeing different things.

Mine is definitely more an idea, a category of people, than a single person. But your phrase makes it sound like a suspicion of a particular individual... and that I'm not getting.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:07 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Wolfysheep, dammit!

SIWC would do.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:15 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

S~V~S wrote:I am intrigued by BF & Golden. Positioning themselves as a Batman & Robin of sorts right out of the gate, sticking cred right onto each other. Then, as Epi pointed out, BF did the same in another game. That is still in progress, but Golden at least was civ there.
Hey... I'm not sticking any cred into bf. :suspish:

All I'm doing is saying it is normal for bf to do it, which I think you would know. I don't think it's helpful for the town to go suspecting bf based on something he would do when civ. There is a big difference between saying 'thats normal bf and i don't suspect him for it' and 'thats bf's civvie game'.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:17 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

blindfaeth wrote:
Golden wrote:
blindfaeth wrote:So, I already have a suspicion but I am keeping to myself until day 1 to see how everything plays out.

Golden, do you see what I see?
As I'm reading back through... because the way you've phrased it makes me now think we are possibly seeing different things.

Mine is definitely more an idea, a category of people, than a single person. But your phrase makes it sound like a suspicion of a particular individual... and that I'm not getting.
Mine is actually two individuals. Grammar nazi :pout:
It was the same thing!!! lol!
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:19 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Epignosis wrote:Well, I was going to try to post using quotes, but all the profanity has now tripped my work's "Adult Material" filter. So now I can't read anything further on page 3.
I feel your pain, epi, I feel your pain.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:26 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

blindfaeth wrote:Well, my item isn't a will for me, it's someone else's will. Like, a specific player, not a role. And if they die, I inherit a large sum of money. That leads me to believe I know the identity of the millionaire. So I wouldn't mind lynching them if other people agree. But for the idea to work, we have to actually lynch them, since he gets stronger from votes that he survives.

I realize I'm probably more quick to take action because I get a benefit regardless, but what does everyone think?
I am completely on board, that actually sounds like a really good idea.

Although I was hoping the will would be a rezz for you if you died :(

And since you have an active use for your item, clearly mine is a dud too.

linki... LC has a point... but on the other hand at this point bf has mentioned it and it puts a big target on his back from the baddies if he keeps the will, so if we go another route I think we should agree that he should be deprived of the will by another civilian overnight.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:31 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

thellama73 wrote:RULES

1. No role outing of yourself or others. Role hint with extreme caution.
I guess this is the important thing... it's llama you should ask. Would he count it as role outing?

I'm still not comfortable that I know the info culture here. At RM we definitely would have gone for it.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:36 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Well, you know I'm up for it anyway :D
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:52 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

I disagree strongly with bullz statement.

I can't remember a time when the person lynched on day one didn't feel it was unfair, no matter what the reason. Day one lynches always suck.

Whats the difference between it being unfair because someone has a hunch that their item is a role hint, and it being unfair because someone sees some minutiae in the thread? I don't see one.

I don't like that it is being made some kind of moral issue. It's a host setting - either it's ok or it isn't. (and my eye is squarely on bullz for his comment).
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:36 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Bullzeye wrote:You are obviously unfamiliar with my attitude towards infodumping. Read the fury in my late posts in the Monty Python game, or the comment I made in the thread about how to handle infodumping. I have a fiery, passionate hatred of info in all its forms. Boogs is one of my all time favourite people to play with, I think he's a brilliant person and a great laugh, but I tore him to shreds for outing me and at the time I was literally that angry. Good or bad, I will never be okay with following info to get someone lynched. It just isn't how I play. I don't care about fighting against it here, it doesn't affect me, but knowing how I would feel in the shoes of whoever BF's will is attached to, I will not be following it and I will not have my disapproval silenced by fear of suspicion. I will happily admit my view of infodumping is very strict but that's just me.

Why is your eye not also on Dom for agreeing with me? It's very rare for he and I to agree on anything actually. I've half a mind to check Hell hasn't frozen over.
Fair enough and I'll check out the evidence before pursuing any suspicion.

Didn't pursue Dom because I was running to work and had no time to read linkis.

All I will say further on this (and I haven't read what else has been said in the thread since, yet)... as a host, I hate info dumping. As an example, when I hosted West Wing, I told bf and juliet (civs with bttsc) that they would be in big trouble if they hinted at their btsc... which was quite extreme on RM where use of info was common. But my primary view is - its up to the host. I have also often built into my games false info as an inherent way of making people stop and think before they put info in the thread. If a host has designed the games balance around the possibility or probability of info (and if you read the roles, you will see quite a bit of that going on) I think the host should decide what is within the rules and was is not in the rules.

I don't think being hung because of bf's 'info' is any more unfair than any other reason for being hung so early. Honestly, we all feel its unfair when we get hung on day one.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:44 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

thellama73 wrote:Speaking of reading the rules. It's a shame more of you didn't vote for "Nothing."
thellama73 wrote: Only the first person to vote for each item will receive it.
Oh, that is so very llama :clap:
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:57 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Bullzeye wrote:Nobody has earned any trust from anyone yet as far as I can see.
I agree with this.

Anyway, bf, you didn't quite see what I saw, but it could be linked. My idea is that the baddies were knowingly after specific items. For instance - the key + safe - and my two that I already had eyes on were bullz and epi. I didn't want to say it in particular because I wanted to see if either of them voted for the other first and then pushed a case to lynch them. But given we are already going down this route, I may as well just say that I would consider any vote by bullz or epi against the other suspicious.

But also they could be a team and already be happy to have both items.

In that sense, I could see TH being on that team as well - although I'm not sure that a baddie team would be very happy to see that much attention drawn to an agenda if they had one. I did notice the 'Boomslang' thing as well because I remember the STV slip, which I think was the game before I first started playing. I'll think about it.

On that note, another thing the key might be able to help with is the baddie's vault, and they might have also been after papers to stick in the vault...

linki - bullzeye - I agree that the info could well be wrong. Ultimately I think this is simply a matter of playstyle. Bf and I play similar games as we have influenced each others mafia game a lot. BF just did exactly what I would do, so I find it easy to come from his perspective on this one. I'm not saying it's without risk... and honestly it would suck for the person lynched good or bad. But it's gonna suck to be the person lynched on day one anyway, is all I'm saying.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:16 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Bullzeye wrote:That's fine, but all I'm saying is in my opinion 'it sucks regardless' doesn't justify voting for someone based on potential info that might indicate that maybe they are bad but also maybe they aren't.
Fair enough. I do think we need a fairly clear majority in favour and who agree to vote the way bf says before he should reveal the name anyway. At this stage, it doesn't look like that will happen, so bf is probably safest to keep the info to himself.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:44 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

I'm less suspicious of MP in that:

1) I would do that (say I don't have time to check in, but find a way to make time if possible); and
2) I really think if he had time to be in BTSC he had time to check in on a couple of things on site - like Roger Rabbit - that he hasn't.

On the flip side, you could argue that the fact he hasn't made time to check on anything else does negate the first point a little.

I wouldn't be in a rush to vote for MP, though, for something I would do when civ.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:06 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

I didn't look back at the timing JC. All I was really trying to say is that when I am civ without btsc, I often say something like 'this is definitely my last post, I'm going now'... and then I come back and post again shortly afterwards, because I'm a bit mafia-hyper like that. MP strikes me also as the kind of guy who checks in as much as he can.

I don't think BR's point is completely without merit, I just could see the behaviour being civ, is my point I guess.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:24 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Epignosis wrote:And if you are right, blindfaeth, you squandered your opportunity. You should have gone hard after the owner of the will and observed what happened.
I don't agree with this. To have gone hard without discussing it with the town would have risked a failed lynch and giving the individual a lot of power, if bf's hunch was correct.
Epignosis wrote:This has been called "info" and "potential info." It is neither. It's an assumption.
Disagree with this too. BF does have info - he knows whose will it is.

Also not sure of the value of coming at bf so hard.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:53 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

@epi - I don't really like that I'm drawn into defending bf so much, because he could be right, but...

I, for one, am not surprised this site has such a major bias towards mafia wins if this: "I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found." is the prevailing attitude.

Mafia have enough of an advantage as it is. While staying within the rules, I'm a big believer in the civilians taking any advantage they have got. And I know bf is too. That's because we've both used this method on a few occasions to the benefit of the civs in the past. RM probably leant towards civ wins a little. And I think it was because we shared what little we could and be damned if the mafia could see it as well. They already had an advantage, we were just levelling it a bit.

Anyway, I don't know llama as a host or this site's rules. All I know is that I've always been one to shout what I've found. It's why I die early a lot. But I never mind if the town wins.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:54 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

EBWOP Sorry, I mean I don't like being drawn into defending bf because you could be right.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:28 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

@SVS

Would bf buddy up to me if he was civ? Yes. I know he gets confidence and energy from us seeing eye to eye. That part is absolute truth.
Would bf buddy up to me if he is bad? Yes. Bf is constantly aware that I am also the best at ratting out his baddie game, and I think he would be particularly aware of the fact I might be able to call him out.

The thing that makes me feel most comfortable about him? Our heads actually are in a very similar space, with eyes on the same people. This does give me some confidence. Also, why put such a big target on your back so early if you are bad?
The thing that makes me feel least comfortable about him? I don't like that I feel this drawn in to defending him so vehemently so early.

His posts still seem pretty - just normal bf to me. He isn't making me ping.

@epi - only when Phil Collins is in a gorilla suit. Hang on, I might be getting things confused there...
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:48 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:@SVS

Would bf buddy up to me if he was civ? Yes. I know he gets confidence and energy from us seeing eye to eye. That part is absolute truth.
Would bf buddy up to me if he is bad? Yes. Bf is constantly aware that I am also the best at ratting out his baddie game, and I think he would be particularly aware of the fact I might be able to call him out.

The thing that makes me feel most comfortable about him? Our heads actually are in a very similar space, with eyes on the same people. This does give me some confidence.
Golden wrote:Although I was hoping the will would be a rezz for you if you died :(
That's a...thing to say on Day 1.
Golden wrote:Also, why put such a big target on your back so early if you are bad?
...because you won't get killed if your team controls the kill?
Golden wrote:The thing that makes me feel least comfortable about him? I don't like that I feel this drawn in to defending him so vehemently so early.
Golden wrote:Although I was hoping the will would be a rezz for you if you died :(
^You said that on your own accord.
Epi - 1) I recognise saying something like 'I was hoping it would be a rezz if you died' is kinda sus lol. Stupid, you might say. But you have to know the history bf and I have. We really are mafia best buds. It's not 'I hoped you had it regardless of your alignment', and I don't think it would reasonably be taken that way by people who know the relationship bf and I have well over the course of many games. We are always inclined to start a game from a position of trust.

2) Are you trying to tell me bf isn't in the firing line for a lynch today? That's the target I was talking about. He knew he was risking having people come down hard on him... especially if he was on the money, when it would be guaranteed.

3) I do defend bf of my own accord. But I also can see myself objectively enough to recognise that bf could rely on me doing so, and could use it as a tactic to take me down with him if he was bad.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:57 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 0]

Dom wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
Why is your eye not also on Dom for agreeing with me? It's very rare for he and I to agree on anything actually. I've half a mind to check Hell hasn't frozen over.
I pose this question to both Golden and BF. Both have completely ignored me and I'm curious as to why.
I did answer this. I was running to go to work and you were just a linki on my screen. Plus, frankly, all you did was say 'you agree', what was there to respond to?

Plus, I already had my eye on bullz and epi - as I mentioned earlier - because I thought the key/safe might be a baddie combination. I did not have my eye on you already. Given I had only once briefly mentioned epi in passing... here:
Golden wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Nobody has earned any trust from anyone yet as far as I can see.
I agree with this.

Anyway, bf, you didn't quite see what I saw, but it could be linked. My idea is that the baddies were knowingly after specific items. For instance - the key + safe - and my two that I already had eyes on were bullz and epi. I didn't want to say it in particular because I wanted to see if either of them voted for the other first and then pushed a case to lynch them. But given we are already going down this route, I may as well just say that I would consider any vote by bullz or epi against the other suspicious.

But also they could be a team and already be happy to have both items.

In that sense, I could see TH being on that team as well - although I'm not sure that a baddie team would be very happy to see that much attention drawn to an agenda if they had one. I did notice the 'Boomslang' thing as well because I remember the STV slip, which I think was the game before I first started playing. I'll think about it.

On that note, another thing the key might be able to help with is the baddie's vault, and they might have also been after papers to stick in the vault...

linki - bullzeye - I agree that the info could well be wrong. Ultimately I think this is simply a matter of playstyle. Bf and I play similar games as we have influenced each others mafia game a lot. BF just did exactly what I would do, so I find it easy to come from his perspective on this one. I'm not saying it's without risk... and honestly it would suck for the person lynched good or bad. But it's gonna suck to be the person lynched on day one anyway, is all I'm saying.
Then it interests me that epi has come out swinging against me.

Actually, Bullz reactions have pretty much come across as genuine to me and I'm feeling much more relaxed about him now.

linki - dom, my goodness. Patience, Iago, patience.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:08 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

I guess what I'm saying is - I think bf's move was one he would make as a civilian.

No, I don't have 'blind faith' and I'd be stupid too...

But for the most part I think the case against him is wrong. SVS's case was thoughtful and I thought Dom's questions were quite probative. Bullzeye I can read as defending himself. But I don't know where Epi is coming from. And, as Epi is WELL aware from Roger Rabbit, I'm wary of those whose first response mechanism is to discredit. Which is exactly what it looks like he is trying to do to both me and bf.

It's interesting how he moved from this:
Epignosis wrote:And I confirmed that just now. blindfaeth's first post in my current game was toward Golden.
knowing that we work this way in a game where he knows both of our affiliations, and I believe he knows we are both civ (certainly I was a known civ and bf appears to be one)...

To going after both of us.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:13 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

What are you thinking Dom?

And before you brush it off, remember... you were demanding answers to your questions, so I expect the same back.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:50 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

It's fair not to trust my words or bfs words about each other, and ignore them as having any value in deciding whether one or both of us is good or bad. I'm not asking you to trust me that bf is good.

However - you were not saying 'I'm not taking it into account'... you were actively discrediting both of us on the basis we are buddying up...

And you are really mixing up your words now...
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:Also, why put such a big target on your back so early if you are bad?
...because you won't get killed if your team controls the kill?
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:2) Are you trying to tell me bf isn't in the firing line for a lynch today? That's the target I was talking about. He knew he was risking having people come down hard on him... especially if he was on the money, when it would be guaranteed.
I'm trying to tell you he's Night fodder if he's good. When he said what he said, he said, "Kill me please." Terrible judgment on his part.
I asked you why he would put a big target on his back. Your first response was essentially 'he didn't'... your second was 'he did'. Which is it? Frankly, I think he did take a massive risk of being lynched... good or bad... do you agree with that?
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:59 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Also, you should understand this about me... and I think you do, from Roger Rabbit. I do not fear death. I fear only my team losing. I play for the team to win. Sometimes that means doing things that you might call 'terrible judgement'... that get me killed.

Your idea of 'terrible judgement' is not an objective fact. It's just a perspective on the game. My perspective is different. If I'm civ, I take whatever leaps I need to get my team the win. I don't claim that makes me a great player. I just can't play any other way. Bf plays a lot like me. Take that whatever way you like.

linki @rabbit - ugh, you see? This is what I mean about being drawn in to a massive defence of bf. You and bf are two very different people.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

If BF is bad, saying what he said carries the penalty that he is being hounded by several people who look very likely to vote for him...

How is that no penalty??? And bf certainly isn't dumb enough to think he would get no heat for it.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:13 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

OK Epi... but in that case... why come after me?

@rabbit - If Epi takes offence, my apologies. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to make reference to my alignment in that game given it is known. MP did this in Roger Rabbit about Aces, so I'm assuming it's in keeping with the rules of the site.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:22 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:OK Epi... but in that case... why come after me?
You're the one not taking any risks.
:D That's actually a fair comment. Especially in that I'm not committing to bf being good.

You'll see me take risks as soon as I have something I believe in. Right now I have a useless item and not a lot I'm particular convinced about. I'm sure that will change soon enough. I'm pushing where I see things and seeing what comes back. My first was at bullz, my second at you. Bullz feels civ to me. I'm still not convinced about you. I think your responses have been inconsistent and I'm not convinced your suspicion of bf or me was genuine.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:31 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Epignosis wrote:Other than blindfaeth, I don't think anyone got anything valuable. :rolleyes:

...right?

I mean, no one is going to come in here saying "Wowee, I got a magic crystal that shows me who the bad guys are!"

...right?

I mean, no one wants to be killed for their shit.

...right?

So I'm astonished at the risk blindfaeth has chosen to take. What astonishes me more is that he thinks he has three of five pegged on Day 1 due to a tenuous assumption on his part: That the owner of the will is the millionaire anarchist (would an anarchist even have a will? I don't know). This has been called "info" and "potential info." It is neither. It's an assumption. Knowing how much llama loves loves loves assumptions, it's naive to believe the owner of the will is most likely evil and that you can peg that person's teammates on Day 1.

And if you are right, blindfaeth, you squandered your opportunity. You should have gone hard after the owner of the will and observed what happened.
Well, thats certainly not the way I read this post.

I read this post as... no civvie would take this risk, right? So bf must be bad, right?
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:@SVS

Would bf buddy up to me if he was civ? Yes. I know he gets confidence and energy from us seeing eye to eye. That part is absolute truth.
Would bf buddy up to me if he is bad? Yes. Bf is constantly aware that I am also the best at ratting out his baddie game, and I think he would be particularly aware of the fact I might be able to call him out.

The thing that makes me feel most comfortable about him? Our heads actually are in a very similar space, with eyes on the same people. This does give me some confidence.
Golden wrote:Although I was hoping the will would be a rezz for you if you died :(
That's a...thing to say on Day 1.
Golden wrote:Also, why put such a big target on your back so early if you are bad?
...because you won't get killed if your team controls the kill?
Golden wrote:The thing that makes me feel least comfortable about him? I don't like that I feel this drawn in to defending him so vehemently so early.
Golden wrote:Although I was hoping the will would be a rezz for you if you died :(
^You said that on your own accord.
Not how I read this post either. I read your second quote as 'bf did it because he won't get killed because his team controls the kill'.

I think it's pretty disingenuous to drop these things in the thread, let someone else 'assume' they are suspicions, and then call them out for it.
by Golden
Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:40 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:OK Epi... but in that case... why come after me?
You're the one not taking any risks.
:D That's actually a fair comment. Especially in that I'm not committing to bf being good.

You'll see me take risks as soon as I have something I believe in. Right now I have a useless item and not a lot I'm particular convinced about. I'm sure that will change soon enough. I'm pushing where I see things and seeing what comes back. My first was at bullz, my second at you. Bullz feels civ to me. I'm still not convinced about you. I think your responses have been inconsistent and I'm not convinced your suspicion of bf or me was genuine.
I wasn't suspicious of bf. I just called him foolish. Do you see what you did there?
If it's me you were suspicious of, I'm not sure why you were framing it all as being about bf. Clearly I was having a very different conversation to the one I thought I was having. But one thing I am not is disingenuous. I didn't turn anything around on you. I admit, you never expressly said you were suspicious of bf, as far as I can see from having a look back. I made an assumption. But I didn't just make it up out of thin air. You chose to lead me there and then turn it around on me.
by Golden
Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:01 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Epignosis wrote:Anybody here believe I once caught a bad guy because he or she lied about "linki?"
Sure...

You know what I'd like? I'd like you to actually tell me what you want me to defend against, instead of doing this vague thing. It's very frustrating having to respond to a case that shifts in front of your eyes.
by Golden
Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:07 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Which is it. Do you suspect me or do you suspect blindfaeth???

I am quite literally tearing my hair out with you!
by Golden
Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:21 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Epi, I'm being serious here.

You are choosing to be obstructive, vague, obtuse, and many other words that all mean the same thing.

You make posts about bf that sound like you are suspicious of him, but then you say:
Epignosis wrote:You'll see me take risks as soon as I have something I believe in. Right now I have a useless item and not a lot I'm particular convinced about. I'm sure that will change soon enough. I'm pushing where I see things and seeing what comes back. My first was at bullz, my second at you. Bullz feels civ to me. I'm still not convinced about you. I think your responses have been inconsistent and I'm not convinced your suspicion of bf or me was genuine.
I wasn't suspicious of bf. I just called him foolish. Do you see what you did there?[/quote]

Whats this. You 'weren't' suspicious of bf... at the time he posted whatever... but now you are suspicious of bf? You made the above post after the linki thing, by the way.

All I want from you is that you are straight up. Don't tie me in knots.
by Golden
Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:22 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

EBWOP - I stuffed up the quote thing. The bit actually quoted was me. The bit under it (and emphasis in bold) were epi.
by Golden
Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:26 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

OK, whatever...

I was suspicious of you from the get go, but if you wanna play games, I'll just vote for you. I don't have time for people who aren't straight up. Either they are mafia, or they are no use to the civilian cause.

With a 72 hour day there is no need for me to rush. But it's gonna take a change in approach from you or someone else coming up with something compelling for me to look in a different direction.
by Golden
Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:35 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

Black Rock wrote:That's Epig for you, you'll get used to it.
Nup. Epi says bf and my friendship can be used against everyone. He is completely right. Same with 'thats just epi'. If he wants to come at me, he's got to do better than that.
by Golden
Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:39 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]
Replies: 4158
Views: 84844

Re: Harry Stephen Keeler [DAY 1]

You know how MP was feeling about MM's self-voting being anti-civilian, and it got him real mad?

That's exactly how I feel about the kind of thing epi is pulling right now. I'd lynch him day one every time until it stopped. It's utterly anti-civilian behaviour. I don't know why anyone would put up with it, honestly..

linki - TH, sorry its not a 'brand', its just a cop out.

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