The Syndicate

Yay game!!! I am so excited.

At work now, will do some role research later to decide on a position.

Ugh, looks like all the positions have some bad stuff.

What's all this about adverbs? Discourse analysis in mafia, eh? Could make for some cool linguistic research

Serenity, now that's interesting...

I'm not going to overthink it, and Position 5 seems the least bad to me right now, looking at aapje's list.

Boomslang wrote:
Tranq wrote:I'm ok with Position 1.

But i'm voting Position 3. Having played the previous Recruitment games, i'd rather not vote for the option that ends up winning a Day 0 poll
For those of us who haven't, care explaining why? What's wrong with picking the position you believe in?

Ahh, the Erlatz Eleven.

If I am remembering this correctly, in a previous recruitment game it was determined that those who had voted the winning option on Day 0 had become a pool of potential recruits for one of the leaders, and it became a witch hunt.

As usual I am overwhelmed by Day One activity and have no idea what to think of anyone. It's nice that there is some actual discussion, but I am still totally clueless as to how to rat out a decent lynch candidate. Sorry if I don't post much -- I'm trying to keep up with this super-fast-paced thread while at work.

Kind of curious about Epi vs. Golden. Those two both scare me a lot but can be extremely useful as civvies (or whatever, in this game). Might re-read their exchange from last night, though it seemed like a lot of it was just Epi being pedantic.

Also llama. I never know what to think of him.

As for Bubbles I think she is genuine. Going after her for joking seemed like a ridiculous nitpick at this stage, and after Broadway I want to give her the BOTD.
And Unfurl is reading like her usual self to me.

@BR- could you possibly use a slightly lighter shade of blue for your host color? It's a little painful on the dark forum skin

BR, new color is perfect, thanks!
About the recruitment contest: Won't Ubzargan basically be able to choose which role to recruit, then? Even if they're not labeled he'll probably be able to guess from the pictures and handpick a juicy role for his team.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd recommend people who are overwhelmed by the content or pace set the forum to display 100 posts per page. It really helps me to view everything in a legible chain and the number of pages is obviously less daunting -- even if the number of posts is the same either way.

Honestly it's the opposite for me -- I like having lots of short pages to scroll through (I have 20 ppp) since it seems quicker if I'm moving through pages faster. Idk, maybe I'm just weird.

Alright this is getting ridiculous. I don't see much reason to think either Epi or Golden is bad and yet they are insisting we take the bait and take a side in this duel of theirs. I'm not biting. I see some merit on both of their parts and some folly on both as well. Instinctively I trust Golden slightly more, but at this point I think this is friendly fire that's distracting Day 1 discussion from the other 34 players.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Question:

Is Day 1 about ridiculing others' reasons for finding suspicion?

OR

Is Day about articulating your own suspicions and following through?
Day 1 is about scratching your butt, eating potato chips, and finding some time in between to vote for someone for a bullshit reason.

This. seriously.

Turnip Head wrote:I'm probably voting for BWT today. He's not playing like I think he would if he were still neutral. Feels like something is already on the line for him.

Now this is a compelling observation, and a vote I could maybe get behind.

DH, maybe I misinterpreted but if, as I thought you implied, you just got your wisdom teeth out, you really should not be eating granola bars.

Yay, I am marmot-approved! I much prefer

to

though. Luckily Oregon's got plenty of both. (I recently turned 21 and went around to some winery tasting rooms, it was lovely!

Dom wrote:
nutella wrote:Alright this is getting ridiculous. I don't see much reason to think either Epi or Golden is bad and yet they are insisting we take the bait and take a side in this duel of theirs. I'm not biting. I see some merit on both of their parts and some folly on both as well. Instinctively I trust Golden slightly more, but at this point I think this is friendly fire that's distracting Day 1 discussion from the other 34 players.
OK, I might be misinterpreting what you're getting at, but are you implying that Epi and Golden manufactured this argument for some ulterior motive?

No, I don't think that. They just happen to be the type of players who get deep into headbutting matches, and they're relentlessly butting heads, and I think it's civ-on-civ. (or neutral-neutral. whatever. you know what i mean)

@SVS I don't think there are any vanillas left, BR announced that their roles had been filled in when last night's contest ended.

So votes are changeable??

Would be nice for the hosts to let us know if that is going to be the case, since the poll doesn't indicate it until you've voted.

I'm still considering voting BWT, though his recent posts are looking better to me... I really wish I had a better idea of who to lynch. I hate day 1. :\

timmer wrote:In regards to SD and Devin (and anyone I missed) who don't like my stance on the game. I've been pretty clear in saying that I think it is an LMS game that will then segue into a traditional mafia game. I'm not saying LMS forever, just LMS for now. An unrecruit has no allegiance, no alignment, no task except to stay alive until said recruitment can happen. That's it. Right now, day 1, there are apparently 8 people on teams, and something like 25 not on teams. So the majority of us have survival on our mind, plain and simple.

My problem with people saying that they are playing civvie until they get recruited is that it could all be such a lie already. Someone could say that as the leader of a baddie team, lol. Whether someone wants to admit it or not, it's all lying because half of the people saying it will end up bad and their stance will then be strategic tactics, or already are.

You must see how there is at least anelement of LMS in these early days?

I agree with this.

LoRab wrote:I'm just going to throw out there that The Seemer is a position 1 power. Which really might make for interesting lynch analysis or lack thereof the possibility for.

shit. I hate seemers.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:Ok so I have a crazy theory. I think MP or llama could be recruiters. I think they have made good points about low posters not getting recruited and then are left unaffiliated and therefor there is no reason to lynch the low posters. It also makes sense that the recruiters would want to take heat away from the more vocal players because they want to recruit those players. I also dont think BR or LC would give an important role like a recruiter to a super low posters or someone who flakes during games. This might sound crazy but I think its possible.
Does anyone out there think Bass shouldn't be lynched as soon as humanly possible for this post? When it is considered in the context of his tiny post history with no follow-up, it bears the appearance of TMI at worst or manipulative filler at best -- and it's partially built upon stated agreement with MP for a point MP never actually made.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
LoRab wrote:@JJJ (can I call you JJJ?) I'm not sure I get what you find suspicious about Bass's post. Could you elaborate?
He proposed a "crazy theory" that would implicate two of the most vocal players in the game (MP and llama) for reasons that are either outright incorrect (such as Bass's reference to MP's point about low posters) or make no sense in a Mafia game (suggesting the mods manipulated the roles to ensure the recruiters were/were not specific people) -- and he hasn't followed up on it or said anything at all since that point. I think MP is a very easy target right now and he was then too; Bass might have been opportunistic with that in mind.

I agree with JJJ's interpretation here -- in fact I remember finding Bass's "crazy theory" weird when he posted it, but I forgot to bring it up (since he has otherwise kept off the spotlight entirely). I think that his accusation of MP/llama was not only opportunistic but nefariously wifom-y. He's like "no way could a low poster, such as myself, be a recruiter!" He basically used a big No U in an attempt to swing the talk of low posters back onto the vocal players -- a very easy target for a quickly manufactured "theory" made to appear as if he was really contributing.

In case I don't get a chance later (and since votes are changeable anyway), I am placing my vote on Bass.

linki: ha, mixing up tranq and typh, classic!

they love it when people do that!

MM, which players haven't you eliminated yet? I'm curious who's in your pool of possible votes but I don't want to go through all your posts to make a list

Huh, day ended early? I wonder when... and why whoever has that role decided to use it.

Voting position 5.

RIP Epi and Typh. I am like many others surprised and saddened to see Typh go so early and hope he gets a rez since he is quite a fun/intense player to have around. I somewhat agree with MP's assessment -- I would certainly not kill Typhoony so early, I would be hoping for the chance to end up on a team with him, but I wouldn't necessarily discount that someone else familiar with his gameplay could want to eliminate him early on.

Also, it's revealed that he was killed by the Brutal Executioner, and looking at that role we now know that Typh was a Sorceror. For what that's worth.

Black Rock wrote:
Keeper of Ravens wrote:CHAOS! CHAOS IS UPON US! Brothers and Sisters if we are to survive this
plite, questions must be answered immediately! You know the questions.
For the answers... you must look north, for there you will find truth."

???????? What does this meannn

Black Rock wrote:
Speaker of Serenity wrote:Please lynch Turnip Head. That is all.

And actually yeah since there are deflections and stuff we can't really be sure. There are some position 1 powers that could have messed up targets and stuff, so we're not 100% sure Typh was a Sorceror. But there's a pretty good chance. Below is a list of all the roles that are Sorcerors

Spoiler: show

ah thanks, I forgot to make it a quote. spoiler tags are annoying.

Oh boy, Day 2 drama

MP's overreaction was a bit uncomfortable but I don't think it makes him guilty, just frustrated. And the discussion of Daisy and recruitment is WIFOMy but I read both sides as genuine. As for Llama, I'm not sure why he got so many (temporary) votes; I didn't see anything super out-of-character from him either.

Btw, why is nobody talking about the Keeper of Ravens message?? I would really like to figure out what it means...

[quote=Keeper of Ravens]CHAOS! CHAOS IS UPON US! Brothers and Sisters if we are to survive this
plite, questions must be answered immediately! You know the questions.
For the answers... you must look north, for there you will find truth."[/quote]

Is it just referring to the lynch poll?

Fucking quote tags

Oh and since votes are changeable I think I might as well throw an early vote out there as a prod. I'd still like to hear more from Bass.

*votes Bass*

Make that "I'd still REALLY like to hear ANYTHING from Bass." He hasn't posted since that "crazy theory" that got him attention -- he completely disappeared after that (did he even vote Day 1?) Where did he go?? He only has 4 posts and that is the only one of any substance.

SVS, you seem to have missed the point that Typh being a Sorceror means there is a 1 in 7 chance that he was Azura. Rico wanted people's opinions on whether Typh should be rezzed based on that chance and based on the other Sorceror roles he might be.

My answer to Rico: Azura and the Pyromancer are both pretty scary, but the other 5 Sorcerors don't look so bad to me, and again the scariness of a role really depends on what team they end up on. I guess even if Azura kills again on Night 3 we can't rule that out because the kill would have passed to the recruit. And even if he wasn't Azura I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the first recruits to a baddie team. So yeah, you have a point that there would certainly be risk in rezzing Typh. But (and I'm not doing the actual math here, someone should check me

) I think there is a higher chance that he was unrecruited, or possibly a recruited civ.

I too have been weirded out by MP's interest in Position 4 and look forward to his response.

Ah yes, Position 4 is the one with Poison. I thought we all agreed to delay that one as long as we can, since poison is cumulative. Why does MP want it to start so early?

Fwiw, I think it's quite reasonable to use "genuine" in this game for someone you think is neutral/unrecruited at this stage of this particular game. The majority of players are unrecruited and it is kind of the default status, while in most games civvie is the default status that everyone wants to present as. It makes sense to me that unrecruited players basically behave like default "civvies" or at least generally have their average, normal, "genuine" playing style at the beginning of this type of game. When I say I read someone as "genuine" I mean just that, they are honest and don't read as baddies, and in this case it means they are probably unrecruited.

Dom wrote:
nutella wrote:Oh and since votes are changeable I think I might as well throw an early vote out there as a prod. I'd still like to hear more from Bass.

*votes Bass*
You're the second or third person to do this.

Do what?

I really don't understand you Dom. Like I never understand most of the things that cause you to "eye" people, they're always the weirdest, most meaningless little things. Like how hard you went after Scotty for something you contrivedly read as a "slip" when it clearly wasn't (I think quite a few others were as baffled by your interpretation as I was.) And now you're eyeing me for placing an early vote in a changeable poll?? What??? I guess it's just how you play though, going doggedly after little things like that, but honestly if you weren't like this every game I would call you out for being opportunistic. But I'm generally always completely baffled by your extreme nitpickiness.

DrW kind of reminds me of Merlin the Wizzard. *wipes tear*

Dom, thanks for clarifying -- I was indeed the second player to vote for Bass today, after MP, but I still don't get why that is suspicious. Can you elaborate on why my vote warranted an

? And no I wasn't upset about you eyeing me specifically, it's more that your general pattern of opportunistically badgering people about little things is bothersome and imo unproductive. Maybe you have some success rate of catching baddies with stuff like that, I don't know, but to me it really seems like fluffing up your posts with trivial "pings" rather than discussing more substantial thoughts.

I'm still not understanding the BWT votes. On Day 1 I think several people voted for him for several different reasons, rather than a single case that gained any kind of momentum. Now Roxy votes for him without any kind of explanation that I see, and Lorab repeats her vote for him despite the fact that it seemed to me that her previous reasons for suspecting him were mostly resolved (primarily the list of low posters taken from G-man being inaccurate). Lorab, am I wrong -- did you have other qualms with BWT that he has not responded to?

Okay, that's totally fair. I have read his responses as genuine for the most part but I can definitely get where you're coming from. I'm inclined to think he's an unrecruited who's not devoting much effort to playing the game at this point.

linki @ Roxy: I'm looking through your posts and I see no explanation. In fact I do not see mention of BWT besides asking his D1 voters whether they still suspect him or not. The only thing I see is your first post after the EOD when you comment on BWT's "Go Civs" comment -- and that is right after you say you probably would not have voted for him because he is "generally wacky". Is the "go civvies" comment your sole reason for suspecting he was recruited? Or did I miss something else in your posts, because I don't see any more mention of suspecting him between then and your vote.

sorry, bc of linki it's unclear -- first part of that post is @ Lorab

I am inclined to think the Speaker of Serenity is unrecruited, has no info, and is arbitrarily tossing TH's name out.

Ricochet wrote:
Golden wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I can confirm that lynching me is a waste of everyone's time, and if that's the barometer we're using for whether or not the Speaker of Serenity can be trusted, then the answer is that s/he can not.
I saw no reason to believe the Speaker of Serenity ought to be blindly followed yet.

The question for me is, are they not to be trusted as in actually bad, or are they just not to be trusted as in - it should be obvious to everyone that they probably don't have info yet.
Considering the Speaker has "message to the thread" written on all position, but it's hinted that most of them should be read as *Secrets*, plus that N1 confirmed his messaging as genuine for Position 1, it's really hard to believe he had the power to check and gather real info as well, all on the first Night of the game. Hence, the Speaker's message should be read at most as his hunch or suss, nothing beyond that.

The way I interpreted the role description is that I think the Speaker does in fact message the thread every day but each position makes it different in some way. In fact it says something like "only the speaker knows the truth within these messages" or something so I think some of the positions might give the speaker true info, which would be interesting. Either that or there's some kind of restriction on the style or format of the message? idk

Rico, what would be the point of the secrets if we would clearly be able to tell that they weren't messaging? I'm pretty sure the idea is that we get a message to the thread regardless of the position but we don't know how they differ.

The only thing I see in Position 1 that might possibly be a silencer is the Keeper of Order "Pull a player over"

Well, the Keeper has one position for messaging to the thread, the others are for messaging people. The Speaker always messages to the thread, but it is different each time. I really don't think your interpretation would make much sense at all. The way it is worded, it's clear to me that the positions are meant to appear the same to the rest of us in thread, meaning the result will always appear as a message to the thread, and only the Speaker knows the "truth behind it".

@Rico & BWT: We're not sure there isn't a silencer on Position 1 -- this was brought up a little earlier today and I mentioned that the Keeper of Order's "pull a player over" sounds like it could be a silencing power.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Nutella said she voted me to "prod" well since I have been back she hasn't said anything about what I have said and has left her vote on me llooks fishy to me.

You hadn't said much until recently, and you're still not looking good to me at all. In fact, given your last several posts, I am feeling even better about my vote for you.

Roxy wrote:
nutella wrote:Okay, that's totally fair. I have read his responses as genuine for the most part but I can definitely get where you're coming from. I'm inclined to think he's an unrecruited who's not devoting much effort to playing the game at this point.

linki @ Roxy: I'm looking through your posts and I see no explanation. In fact I do not see mention of BWT besides asking his D1 voters whether they still suspect him or not. The only thing I see is your first post after the EOD when you comment on BWT's "Go Civs" comment -- and that is right after you say you probably would not have voted for him because he is "generally wacky". Is the "go civvies" comment your sole reason for suspecting he was recruited? Or did I miss something else in your posts, because I don't see any more mention of suspecting him between then and your vote.
Well then you did see it. That post felt unnatural to me. I stated something about and despite being in the thread and claimed to have read he never even mentioned it.

I don't mean to no u but your vote for Bass to prod him after not really mentioning him before is sort of the same thing - just saying hey I think you could be bad - show me that you are not.

Just catching up and posting as I go

Sorry, "not really mentioning him before"? What? I voted for Bass on Day 1 after explicitly stating that I found him suspicious because of the "crazy theory" post. My vote for him today is consistent with that suspicion and because at that point he had not even posted again since then to reply/defend. Not at all like your vote for BWT. You mentioned that one post briefly (and to be fair you didn't even direct your comment at him to elicit a response), made a couple other posts in between in which you didn't bring up his name at all (except indirectly to, ironically enough, call out those who had voted for him), and then suddenly announced your vote without explaining it or even calling back to that one post.

The vote spread/close tallies are a little concerning considering how many roles have vote manip powers in this position... we really have no way of knowing the correct tally and with a few candidates being so close, any one of them could end up being lynched.

I was one of the people who said Golden vs Epi looked "civ on civ" but I really meant "civ-or-neutral/unrecruited on civ-or-neutral/unrecruited". For the record.

Turnip Head wrote:Reading Rey's last few posts directed at Golden, I'm wondering if Rey is on the team that killed Epi.

Assuming Golden himself didn't do it.

I could see that.

Well I'm not particularly disappointed to lose the Magnetarch, was a dangerous role anyway. And I'm rather indifferent that he was unrecruited. Honestly I'd call this a relatively successful day 2 given the circumstances. It will be hard to find the actual baddies.

Think I'll go for Position 3.

Also really great post LC. I always really enjoy your writing and I really appreciate the detail you put into game flavor.

Ricochet wrote: So why the double standard between these two Sorcerers' deaths? And why suddenly find Magnetarch to have been dangerous, when previously it was deemed not so bad?

Honestly, I admit I was a little biased by my having wanted to lynch Bass, and wanted to push back a little against people like SVS who had immediately gone "awww he was an innocent unrecruited so sorry you got lynched bb" without considering his role and its potential effects on the game. When I went back to read the Magnetarch's role after the reveal, it was under a different light than when I skimmed through the Sorcerors for threats, and I re-interpreted it as actually rather dangerous, though of course not as scary as Azura or the Pyromancer. And as I said in the earlier post you quoted, some roles can be a huge threat if they're a baddie but immensely helpful if they're a civvie, so I was scanning for Sorcerors that would be particularly threatening as baddies. When I went back to read the Magnetarch however it seems worrying in its own right -- regardless of his recruitment status, the abilities can cause some destructive fuckery. Especially considering a lot of them have a random factor -- it doesn't look like the Magnetarch has much agency in positions 1, 2, and 5.

So, yeah, maybe I would have included the Magnetarch on my earlier list if I had thought a little more about it, but it's not on the same level as the Pyromancer, but rather scary in a different way.

linki: bea, position 4 is the one with poison and I think it's best to delay the infection as long as possible because it will be cumulative. sneaky counter-current vote there.
and MM I believe it is actually bea's birthday that is coming up in a few days (though idk when diggs' is)

^@BR- I know that's at least missing MP's vote for Bass which was before mine.

reywaS wrote:
nutella wrote:Well I'm not particularly disappointed to lose the Magnetarch, was a dangerous role anyway. And I'm rather indifferent that he was unrecruited. Honestly I'd call this a relatively successful day 2 given the circumstances. It will be hard to find the actual baddies.

Think I'll go for Position 3.
I disagree with this 100%. Unrecruited is unrecruited IMO. I think a lot of roles are dangerous to the civvie cause IF they are recruited to the baddie teams, but they are equally non dangerous to the civvie cause if they get recruited to the civvie team. This sounds like a cop out for being wrong about someone.

To me it looks like the Magnetarch's abilities have somewhat of a random factor and would be a threat regardless of his alignment.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I voted Position 4 because it sounds fun.

Whoops hit submit before I finished replying, one sec

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I voted Position 4 because it sounds fun.

Canucklehead wrote:
Long Con wrote:First player to post a picture of a Hostile Hoagie will gain esteem.

This is amazing oh my god the cheese = fangs

Rico's finding on TH's vote behavior is interesting and I'm not sure how I feel about TH's response. I can sympathize with last-minute uncertain voting during the first couple days though. Easy bandwagon to jump on, but I could see myself doing the same in that situation just as a clueless unrecruited or civ.

MM, I'm guessing you've been waiting for this kind of reaction to your behavior, but I legitimately do not like it. Really, you keep making questionable choices just for shits and giggles. I know you like to be zany but you have formed a pattern in this game of particularly disagreeable actions. It's like you're not even reading the thread or paying attention to what others have to say, you just zip through every now and then and say something totally out of touch. Especially the vote for TH/support of the Speaker's message. It seems like you're doing this on purpose, the old strategy of behaving oddly to try and garner reactions and see who jumps on you, but honestly I'll bite. I think, if that is indeed your intention, you are taking it to too much of an extreme to the point that you come across as apathetic to the game and actively being counterproductive. Even if you are just out for yourself, you should be at least somewhat wary of position 4, unless you are the poisoner.

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