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by MacDougall
Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:46 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

Let's catch some baddies.
by MacDougall
Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:57 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

iirc Tatooine is where the saga begins really so let's go there.
by MacDougall
Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:57 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

Enrique wrote:Why doesn't Yavin have any votes? You guys realize that's literally like the civvie base, right?
And yet you didn't vote for it.

Enrique is scum, confirmed.
by MacDougall
Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:18 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

Enrique wrote::shrug2: I haven't voted at all. I was just wondering if there was a reason not to.
You're right, scum would heavily contemplate the potential of such a thing since their numbers are fewer ergo their demise has more of an impact on their team.
by MacDougall
Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:00 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

Glorfindel wrote:I guess I should've warned you guys - there is something you don't know about me yet that you probably should. It's something that has unfortunately impacted EVERY game of Mafia I have ever played (to a greater or lesser extent)...

Yes, I am Australian!
Me too.
by MacDougall
Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:06 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for analyzing this poll, folks!

I'm voting Alderaan, just to make the poll a bit more interesting, and because some people think it sounds OK. I doubt Epi made the results obvious though, if there are any (besides serving as a mechanic for the role that Golden pointed out).
I'm glad that in our first game together you get to be scum and I get to be civ.
by MacDougall
Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:09 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

Guys, I have to inform you that I know when that Hotline Bling, it could only mean one thing. So yeah don't fuck with me.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:45 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Requesting a policy lynch of MattF.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:58 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Metalmarsh89 wrote:MacDougall

Let's do this.
You spelled MattF wrong.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:00 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

No, but in all seriousness enrique is scum.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:02 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:MacDougall

Let's do this.
You spelled MattF wrong.
Ma...

:disappoint:































ybe I didn't.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:09 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

MacDougall wrote:No, but in all seriousness enrique is scum.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:01 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

a2thezebra wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:MacDougall

Let's do this.
Wait a second this is your ACTUAL vote? Did you forget votes are not changeable or are you this confident Mac is scum?
No and perhaps.
Hence why I said "forget" rather than "know." :|

Please elaborate. This goes for you and Mac.
enrique was my day 0 ping.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:13 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

MacDougall wrote:
Enrique wrote:Why doesn't Yavin have any votes? You guys realize that's literally like the civvie base, right?
And yet you didn't vote for it.

Enrique is scum, confirmed.
I made this fairly sarcastic but partially meaningful accusation because I found it strange that enrique rather than voting for the base and explaining that as his reason, just made this comment without voting. Indicating a cautiousness to make what seems to be a reasonably arbitrary decision. I felt it was a good idea to prod him on it.

His reaction.
MacDougall wrote:
Enrique wrote::shrug2: I haven't voted at all. I was just wondering if there was a reason not to.
You're right, scum would heavily contemplate the potential of such a thing since their numbers are fewer ergo their demise has more of an impact on their team.
Wondering if there was a reason not to vote for Yavin? This was a strange thought imo. Why/how would there be such things on day 0 as reasons not to vote in a poll. It realistically is the most meaningless poll of the game. His cautiousness is strange.
Enrique wrote:All of the locations sound dangerous tbh :puppy:

Hoth had like big yeti creature things. Not nice.
The above was his first post. Yet, he then went on to say that Yavin was the civvie base, and that it was weird that we weren't voting for it. Does that not mean that he actually didn't feel that they all sounded dangerous and that his first post was actually just non genuine fluff. We all know the first post is awkward as scum. This looks like an awkward scum first post.

His two reactions to me accusing him were "huh" and "uhh okie", so he has no desire to be engaged on the subject instead choosing to look elsewhere. Fine, perhaps he just sees the accusations as disingenous or non threatening. I see it as more of him attempting to just calmly dismiss them as me being overenthusiastic about what he'd like to put forth as something that's not a big deal.

He did end up voting for Yavin and called us crazy for not doing so.
Enrique wrote:Voted Yavin. You guys are all crazy.
Which is strange when he made comments about Endor and Tatooine, indicating that he was genuinely weighing up his options. If it was such an easy decision, why the hell didn't he make it sooner, and why was he looking at Endor or Tatooine as a potential option at all. If Yavin is obvious then no, not every planet is dangerous and why not just vote for it immediately?
Enrique wrote:Endor is actually a lot more appealing when you read the roles and realize we have an Ewok on our side. Maybe it's not so dangerous after all.
Enrique wrote:I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?
For a day 1 case, I think it's pretty good.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Also zebra, you keep accusing me of "trying to look like I'm contributing", but really you should look at the context of my posts. Who else was contributing on day 0? There was absolutely nothing to talk about back then, no debate going on, and I tried to spark a discussion to get the game moving, even if such a discussion was not directly useful to baddie hunting at first. Well, I work with what I've got. I wasn't trying to "look" contributive", I was trying to get the game out of day 0 stasis.

I think you're jumping too fast on people, honestly. Not just the (admitelly valid) suspicions on me, but also stuff like this:
a2thezebra wrote:
Matt F wrote:Why are we being mean to Dragon? He voted Death Star :beer:
You're taking this Death Star enthusiasm to an uncomfortable extreme, Matt. Are you saying everyone who voted for the Death Star should be ignored when they appear suspicious?
You quoted what was a obvious joke post and tried to turn it into evidence. Like... chill. Not evey post from every player has to be mafia slipping. Like someone else said, it feels like you are all over the place.
I don't think you're bad for it, and I don't think you're necessarily by virtue of my opinion wrong about Zebra but I do not agree with you. Telling someone to chill because they are flinging accusations around on day 1 is not what I would suggest at all. The more content, the more conversations, the more accusations the absolute better for the civ team. If you are pinged on day 1 by the most slight thing you need to be out with it and you need to force the player in question to explain it. Especially on day 1, if you want to find scum on day 1 or if you want to produce searchable content on day 1.

Responding to her pings, her accusations, like you have done is wonderful. If you think Zebra is scum for what she's doing that's wonderful too. But tactically I think if she wants to fling accusations around we should encourage it because if she's bad she's giving us opportunities to find out and if she's good she's going to ruffle some bad guy feathers.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:12 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

The last thing you want to be doing is identifying a scum player by YOUR ping and telling them to stop what they are doing right? Is what you are criticising Zebra for scummy to you? If so, say so! If not, what is there to gain by telling her to pipe down? :ponder:
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:16 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

I will add that after going over the conversation in question that you look very civ to me, Russ looks very civ to me and Zebra pinged me a little bit with her criticism of you.

Russ's point on her resonates with me.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:08 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Look, if you wanna suspect people for the most random things and point that out, then by all means, be my guest.

But if I think some of those suspicions are misguided, I will point that out too, and I will point flaws in the person's logic.

When I say "chill", it's not as much as wanting zebra to stop (honestly, I don't mind either way, and I agree with you that dialogue is always useful), than it is to point something weird in her logic, and disagree with her method. Matt's post was an obvious OT post, and she responded very seriously to him. I also feel like she is going too far in some conclusions, like the whole thing about myself trying to "look useful". So I pointed that out too. I don't want people to stop talking, but if I feel people are taking the discussion to a wrong direction, and accusing people based on what I think is faulty logic, I will let them know it and I will attempt to change that direction.

Also just to make it clear: at this point, I don't think that's enough to suspect zebra more than just a ping, since a lot of my logical disagreement could be due to different playstyles. But she is rubbing me the wrong way.

(also I didn't know zebra was a "she" until your post, lol)
Oh btw nice to meet you.

OT posts are not always a bad thing to catch out scum on. I often get pinged by people talking about other stuff, if it seems like it's in lieu of actual contribution or seems like a forced line of dialogue. But largely that's a reasonable response DDL.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:42 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

MovingPictures07 wrote:I can attest to what Golden is trying to express. I see nothing out of the ordinary for either DDL or zebra. :eye: on them, for sure, but no reason to eye them more than anyone else at this point.

zebra, you disagree with DDL's logic, yes? However, do you recognize that just because you think someone has reached a conclusion that you find faulty does not necessarily make them mafia?
Do you eye people who you don't suspect generally? Is everyone at a default status of being :eye: from you? I tend to feel people generally use that to denote a suspicion a level above default? Just trying to get a feel for you.

Is that last question actually meant to be serious? You are asking Zebra if she is aware that just because someone is wrong that doesn't mean they are mafia? That seems like a borderline disrespectful thing to ask someone who clearly has played this game many times MP.
a2thezebra wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I can attest to what Golden is trying to express. I see nothing out of the ordinary for either DDL or zebra. :eye: on them, for sure, but no reason to eye them more than anyone else at this point.

zebra, you disagree with DDL's logic, yes? However, do you recognize that just because you think someone has reached a conclusion that you find faulty does not necessarily make them mafia?
Of course. But if you read my original post you would know that it wasn't just because I disagreed with him that I was suspicious. It was mainly because I don't understand how someone could point something out and then immediately retract it. Like I said, it comes off as if that person is trying to look like they are contributing when they are not. I also said that it is questionable to use meta as a defense to a slight ping and I stand by that.
I can explain how this occurs to me personally. If I get pinged by something and then start trying to make a post about it but as I make the post I think a little harder on it and start to realise the disputable points of my ping I often trail off the post expressing disputable points to my own case. Personally I tend to do this more as a civ because as a scum I delete half made posts and stay silent far more often than I do as a civ. It is a null tell to me.

That being said on thinking of it, if the disputable detail completely refutes the original ping entirely I see no reason to actually finish making the post, and I probably should not do it, yet I do it quite frequently. A bad trait of mine. If the disputable detail only refutes part of the point, it's certainly worth expressing the entire point as well as the disputable detail, to save someone else from needing to do so and opening up an unnecessary line of discourse.

So that being said, in DDL's case, was there a point to completing the post in light of him disputing his own point? I'm going to say yes, because it is still a relevant subject. I can see a possibility where scum (or a player), if they were to know that the planet that the game is currently on is the planet that is to explode, does vote early in a revealing manner. If it is a player who generally holds their vote, or if it's a throwaway vote of epic proportions.

If we were to attempt to take advantage of the possibility of this we, as civs, would need to be razor sharp with how we choose and direct our own votes, which is something that many civ players fail to do as habitually votes go places out of lazy following of other peoples cases or on minor pings.

Ergo, I think while it's possible, it is incredibly unlikely for us to see anything revealing on it, except for perhaps analysing the previous days poll in reflection after the planet explodes. Even then a scum player would have to have been very poor to stand out.

tl;dr I can see why DDL started making the post. I can see less comprehensive reason for completing the posts but I can sympathise with him having done so. I see this whole discourse as about as likely to net scum as the subject that it is actually discussing.

As for using meta as a defense for a slight ping. I agree with you. A player should not call back on their own civ history as explanation for what they are doing as though it's a defense. I find that pingy too.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:52 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

MovingPictures07 wrote:Gun to my head, I actually find Russtifinko suspicious in that exchange. He seems to express two distinct slight pings of both DDL and zebra, but it seems a bit opportunistic for him to say on the one hand that he is NOT pinged by DDL's logic but that he was pinged by DDL overexplaining it. Could possibly be a disingenuous way for Russtifinko to throw mud at two players who are relatively easier to lynch than the rest of us, particularly this early, since you both tend to post a lot and easily misinterpreted.
As someone who felt differently, I need to respond here. I think Russtifinko came across quite civ in execution, but in general calling someone out for agreeing with your case is a recurring scum tell, so I can see it going both ways.

In execution however Russtifinko read genuine to me in the exchange. This post of yours MP I would like to explore some.

For a start, nobody has put a gun to your head. XD

You feeling the need to begin your, what I am reading as rather forced, read on the play with that comment serves to downplay the intention of it imo.

You say he "seems" to express. MP, I don't think there was any seeming. He bluntly said he was pinged.

Your accusing him of being opportunistic, to me, is a little strange. I can't see how I would describe what he did as opportunistic. You have chosen words here that don't sit right with me. I can't see opportunism here because if he was an opportunistic scum, I believe he would have attacked the entire point, like what Zebra has done. Identifying part of the post as a ping, does not read opportunistic, it reads analytics and more genuine because it comes across more thoughtful.

Then you say "could possibly be" and "relatively" which I find similar to "seems" in that it comes across like you are almost, I won't say nervously, I will say cautiously throwing shade on Russ.

You are making posts that remind me of my own scum posts. You are over using words and phrases that hide an actual lack of belief in what you are saying.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:59 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

bcornett24 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:Ok, so for the srs bsns I promised:

1) Voting Tatooine. Less for movie reasons and more because if we want info about Jabba's plans and our operatives found his plans in his palace, it makes sense to think his palace is a good place to start the search.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.
I'm rather confused why the focus of the conversation happens to be on the 2nd statement russ made here and not the first. I would encourage everybody to read the statement in red. To me this comes across as a scum hunting for third party players (or vise-versa).

I find this to be a very anti-town statement. What does everybody else think?
You raise a good point, and it actually ties in nicely with something I'm going to point out in a moment.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:07 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.
I want everyone to discuss this.

How are these two statements compatible?
How are they not? If he cannot work out whether a motivation is civvie or scum, how does him resolving to be pinged make anything but total sense?
MovingPictures07 wrote:I am casting a "fake vote" on Russtifinko. If the hosts allowed changeable votes, I would be casting my vote. Since they are not, I will withhold it. But consider this an official expression of suspicion on Russtifinko.

Russ, when you get a chance, can you answer some of my concerns?
Okay here's where my head is at.

MP as I've expressed I have now got a pretty clear scum read of you and it's because I sense a lack of belief in your case, especially on Russ. Not in the belief of him being scum, but in the points that you've used to reach that conclusion.

I think Russ, has by and large come across quite well, except for the point that bcornett swiftly pointed out, and that you did not point out despite apparently being onto him as scum.

The parts of his posts that you have highlighted do not read scum to me.

It looks to me like you are scum and you are day 1 distancing a scum teammate. Your case on him has all the hallmarks of it. You have confirmation bias when it comes to his posts.

Zebra looks like day 1 civ Zebra to me based on the three games I've played recently with Zebra. Things have pinged me, but Zebra has pinged me in all games we've played and has not yet flipped scum.

For now I am going to put on ice my scum read of enrique in light of his reaction to bcornett's point. My case on him was a day 1 case and does not come close to how I feel about this one, so allow me to put that back in my pocket for the time being. His response to bcornett's Russtifinko suspicion looks genuine and should Russ be scum, he would not be in my opinion.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:51 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Matt you have managed to completely sidestep contribution in regards to things occurring in favour of discussing other people's reaction to your enthusiasm regarding the death star. That pings the hell out of me. You don't seem to have any interest in catching scum.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:53 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Aren't the Jabbas supposed to be a mafia team, not independents? We should be hunting for them.
The point was that for someone to identify a specific faction as a target read scum genuinely hunting scum.
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also this "gun to the head" thing is something MP does all the time. He assumes someone is pointing a gun to his head to ask for his reads, then writes a wall of text on them. Otherwise, he asks other people to give him their "gun to the head" reads.

Btw MP, any rainbow lists yet?
Strange that of all the things I posted you replied to these two points only, considering one was the shortest post and the other was the jokey first bit. Do you have no interest in reading entire civ cases DDL? :mafia:
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:57 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:OT posts are not always a bad thing to catch out scum on. I often get pinged by people talking about other stuff, if it seems like it's in lieu of actual contribution or seems like a forced line of dialogue. But largely that's a reasonable response DDL.
The point of the OT tags is to say something that can't be used against you.

Now if every single post someone makes is green, that's a different story.
And yet, I used a green post against someone and they were scum in Dune. How neat.
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also this "gun to the head" thing is something MP does all the time. He assumes someone is pointing a gun to his head to ask for his reads, then writes a wall of text on them. Otherwise, he asks other people to give him their "gun to the head" reads.

Btw MP, any rainbow lists yet?
MP does this all the time? Where did you learn this?
Some time between the seventh and the eigth time I was asked to provide a gun to the head of someone during the first game I played here.
And what was MP's alignment in the game you are referring to?
Savage wrote:Of all the post I've read I haven't picked up nothing that stands out to me as scum behavior. So for now most of everyone who posted d1 is a neutral or town read to me. When I'm out of class I will re-read the phase just to make sure I haven't missed something and look at others cases
I'm not entirely sure why you would bother telling us this then? :ponder:
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:20 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

MovingPictures07 wrote:Responses to Mac regarding my suspicion of Russtifinko and his suspicion of me (and tangently related subjects):
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I can attest to what Golden is trying to express. I see nothing out of the ordinary for either DDL or zebra. :eye: on them, for sure, but no reason to eye them more than anyone else at this point.

zebra, you disagree with DDL's logic, yes? However, do you recognize that just because you think someone has reached a conclusion that you find faulty does not necessarily make them mafia?
Do you eye people who you don't suspect generally? Is everyone at a default status of being :eye: from you? I tend to feel people generally use that to denote a suspicion a level above default? Just trying to get a feel for you.

Is that last question actually meant to be serious? You are asking Zebra if she is aware that just because someone is wrong that doesn't mean they are mafia? That seems like a borderline disrespectful thing to ask someone who clearly has played this game many times MP.
a2thezebra wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I can attest to what Golden is trying to express. I see nothing out of the ordinary for either DDL or zebra. :eye: on them, for sure, but no reason to eye them more than anyone else at this point.

zebra, you disagree with DDL's logic, yes? However, do you recognize that just because you think someone has reached a conclusion that you find faulty does not necessarily make them mafia?
Of course. But if you read my original post you would know that it wasn't just because I disagreed with him that I was suspicious. It was mainly because I don't understand how someone could point something out and then immediately retract it. Like I said, it comes off as if that person is trying to look like they are contributing when they are not. I also said that it is questionable to use meta as a defense to a slight ping and I stand by that.
I can explain how this occurs to me personally. If I get pinged by something and then start trying to make a post about it but as I make the post I think a little harder on it and start to realise the disputable points of my ping I often trail off the post expressing disputable points to my own case. Personally I tend to do this more as a civ because as a scum I delete half made posts and stay silent far more often than I do as a civ. It is a null tell to me.

That being said on thinking of it, if the disputable detail completely refutes the original ping entirely I see no reason to actually finish making the post, and I probably should not do it, yet I do it quite frequently. A bad trait of mine. If the disputable detail only refutes part of the point, it's certainly worth expressing the entire point as well as the disputable detail, to save someone else from needing to do so and opening up an unnecessary line of discourse.

So that being said, in DDL's case, was there a point to completing the post in light of him disputing his own point? I'm going to say yes, because it is still a relevant subject. I can see a possibility where scum (or a player), if they were to know that the planet that the game is currently on is the planet that is to explode, does vote early in a revealing manner. If it is a player who generally holds their vote, or if it's a throwaway vote of epic proportions.

If we were to attempt to take advantage of the possibility of this we, as civs, would need to be razor sharp with how we choose and direct our own votes, which is something that many civ players fail to do as habitually votes go places out of lazy following of other peoples cases or on minor pings.

Ergo, I think while it's possible, it is incredibly unlikely for us to see anything revealing on it, except for perhaps analysing the previous days poll in reflection after the planet explodes. Even then a scum player would have to have been very poor to stand out.

tl;dr I can see why DDL started making the post. I can see less comprehensive reason for completing the posts but I can sympathise with him having done so. I see this whole discourse as about as likely to net scum as the subject that it is actually discussing.

As for using meta as a defense for a slight ping. I agree with you. A player should not call back on their own civ history as explanation for what they are doing as though it's a defense. I find that pingy too.
At this stage in the game, everyone is worthy of :eye:, since no one has reason not to be or to be anything stronger. - Yes but using the eye emoticon so far that I've seen has been a "you are suspicious to me" stance not a "you are default to me" stance.

I didn't see it as disrespectful. zebra is a great player, but she tends to exhibit tunnel vision. I know it well because historically I've had problems with it myself. I was trying to get zebra to understand an outsider's (my) perception of her accusations, and discuss it with her. So, yes, it was meant to be serious, and with no disrespect. Why wouldn't it be? - Perhaps so, but it came across quite belittling to me. You asked her a question that had a really obvious answer to anyone who knows how to play the game. Why not just make the statement instead of asking what I read as a patronising question? This is quite unimportant anyway, I don't see this uncovering some magic scumness.

I appreciate your thoughts on DDL here. You said the recall previous games behavior pings you; how does that mean you feel overall about DDL at the moment? - - He has pinged me, but I am reading him as a pingy civ that doesn't read posts properly and doesn't consider his use of words.

For this next quote, I'm going to respond with blue in a line-by-line fashion:
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Gun to my head, I actually find Russtifinko suspicious in that exchange. He seems to express two distinct slight pings of both DDL and zebra, but it seems a bit opportunistic for him to say on the one hand that he is NOT pinged by DDL's logic but that he was pinged by DDL overexplaining it. Could possibly be a disingenuous way for Russtifinko to throw mud at two players who are relatively easier to lynch than the rest of us, particularly this early, since you both tend to post a lot and easily misinterpreted.
As someone who felt differently, I need to respond here. I think Russtifinko came across quite civ in execution, but in general calling someone out for agreeing with your case is a recurring scum tell, so I can see it going both ways.

I'm glad you've responded.

In execution however Russtifinko read genuine to me in the exchange. This post of yours MP I would like to explore some.

For a start, nobody has put a gun to your head. XD

I realize this. :P

I'm just indicating that, having read through that exchange, while I didn't see the suspicion on either zebra or DDL, I did pick something up on Russtifinko.
- Why not say "having read through that exchange while I didn't see the suspicion either zebra or DDL etc. It's just more examples of your verbose waffliness, which to me is the heart of my scum read on you.

You feeling the need to begin your, what I am reading as rather forced, read on the play with that comment serves to downplay the intention of it imo.

How so? I'm only indicating my confidence level, which isn't very strong. - I'm not entirely sure you didn't just lie to me dude. Your case on Russtifinko is probably the most exhaustive of all the cases aside from mine on you so far. Your confidence level seemed to be reasonably strong as you didn't state at all that it wasn't, rather just using words that revealed that you were in fact overly cautious about it.

You say he "seems" to express. MP, I don't think there was any seeming. He bluntly said he was pinged.

Well, you're right, I suppose that's true. What I was trying to express though is that I failed to reconcile "can't decide civ/baddie" and "consider me pinged". To me, "pinged" indicates suspicion, which would then mean that he did decide on baddie, right? - The content of what you were saying isn't relevant to my case on you, it was your choice of words. That being said, I actually see what you mean now and it's that level of detail of your suspicion on him that looks like a case forced out of knowing that he is scum, by virtue of being his teammate. I had to really squeeze my brain to get your point there. Perhaps that's on me.

Your accusing him of being opportunistic, to me, is a little strange. I can't see how I would describe what he did as opportunistic. You have chosen words here that don't sit right with me. I can't see opportunism here because if he was an opportunistic scum, I believe he would have attacked the entire point, like what Zebra has done. Identifying part of the post as a ping, does not read opportunistic, it reads analytics and more genuine because it comes across more thoughtful.

This is a good point that I didn't consider, particularly the underlined. :ponder:

This does shake my read a bit. Nonetheless I still want to see if Russ can elaborate his thoughts in a manner I can better understand the civilian train of thought.
- A suspicious Mac would read this as you attempting to bail on your case on Russ now as it's blown up in your face. But it could just as easily be a discerning man using good judgement so I'll let that slide. :noble:

Then you say "could possibly be" and "relatively" which I find similar to "seems" in that it comes across like you are almost, I won't say nervously, I will say cautiously throwing shade on Russ.

That's just how I talk, for one. For two, "cautiously" isn't necessarily incorrect, since I am clearly showing through my word choices that I don't feel very strongly on my suspicion. Nonetheless, I wanted to pursue the suspicion and associated discussion. - I would say that you are clearly showing through your word choices that you are being overly cautious.

You are making posts that remind me of my own scum posts. You are over using words and phrases that hide an actual lack of belief in what you are saying.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not exactly sure what you mean.
- Everything I have called you out on is behaviour I tend to exhibit when I am scum with my supatown hat on. Literally all of it.

Responses above within the quote.
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.
I want everyone to discuss this.

How are these two statements compatible?
How are they not? If he cannot work out whether a motivation is civvie or scum, how does him resolving to be pinged make anything but total sense?
MovingPictures07 wrote:I am casting a "fake vote" on Russtifinko. If the hosts allowed changeable votes, I would be casting my vote. Since they are not, I will withhold it. But consider this an official expression of suspicion on Russtifinko.

Russ, when you get a chance, can you answer some of my concerns?
Okay here's where my head is at.

MP as I've expressed I have now got a pretty clear scum read of you and it's because I sense a lack of belief in your case, especially on Russ. Not in the belief of him being scum, but in the points that you've used to reach that conclusion.

I think Russ, has by and large come across quite well, except for the point that bcornett swiftly pointed out, and that you did not point out despite apparently being onto him as scum.

The parts of his posts that you have highlighted do not read scum to me.

It looks to me like you are scum and you are day 1 distancing a scum teammate. Your case on him has all the hallmarks of it. You have confirmation bias when it comes to his posts.

Zebra looks like day 1 civ Zebra to me based on the three games I've played recently with Zebra. Things have pinged me, but Zebra has pinged me in all games we've played and has not yet flipped scum.

For now I am going to put on ice my scum read of enrique in light of his reaction to bcornett's point. My case on him was a day 1 case and does not come close to how I feel about this one, so allow me to put that back in my pocket for the time being. His response to bcornett's Russtifinko suspicion looks genuine and should Russ be scum, he would not be in my opinion.
Maybe I have a different definition of "pinged" than others do? It seems as though he resolved it to be a mafia read, even if slight, which contradicts what he said before. That's what I was getting hung up on. - Sorry I'm not following here.

Not sure what I can say with regards to you perceiving my case as a lack of belief. To some degree, that is true; I didn't feel Russ was 100% mafia or anything even remotely close.

I appreciate that you have commented on the matter in such a level of detail, particularly since you disagree so strongly, and you've made points that are worth considering.

I didn't pick up bcornett's observation, no, I didn't think of it that way. I still think my observations made more sense. - Yes, but for someone who seemed to be quite pinged by Russ, for you to not mention that part reads to me like you didn't want to put it on him TOO hard, or that you weren't actually looking through all his posts for genuine opportunities to see a scum. Just enough to distance.

I don't understand the logic behind jumping to the conclusion that I'm mafia distancing from a teammate. Because you think I've made points of suspicion that you believe make him appear the opposite, so thus I must be bad and he is on my team? Am I missing a link here? - I've elaborated a little on my point on that matter in this post, but it's the fact that your points on him seem to be making a lot out of what I perceive to be a really civ looking ISO, yet the part that pinged me the post you didn't make a point of addressing, whether by virtue of having not bothered reading it, or by virtue of seeing that it would have drawn the heat on Russ a little TOO much.
I coloured my stuff pink because it's pirdy.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:31 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.
It's hard to be bothered by MM's normal civilian behaviour.
Initially I assumed it was a joke vote and that he hadn't noticed that there were no vote changes, but...
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Votes are not changeable in this poll. :sigh:
So actually what the hell did you vote for me for Metalmarsh?
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:33 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:If he had managed to explain a thought process behind this switch, that'd be one thing, but the kicker is that he has failed to address your suspicion whatsoever.

I'm not sold, but I'm listening. I'd like to hear Enrique address your thoughts.
What do you think this was (from before your post):
Enrique wrote:thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.
Whether the truth or not, it definitely is a 'thought process behind the switch'.
Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

MP was referencing enrique's initial reactions to my initial suspicions and his lack of response to them, anything that enrique said subsequent was not on the table.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:55 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 0]

Golden wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

MP was referencing enrique's initial reactions to my initial suspicions and his lack of response to them, anything that enrique said subsequent was not on the table.
Nope, I had the context exactly right. MP said he found Enrique suspicious because 'he hadn't given a thought process behind his change in view' when in fact Enrique had. The fact that MP said that in the context of also responding to other posts is not important. It demonstrated to me that MP's suspicion was based on the fact he had missed Enrique's post, and if anything was being swayed by posts from you saying Enrique hadn't responded... even though Enrique subsequently did.

@zebra - nope. Marmot can pretty much get away with anything. He went through a period of being lynched day one over and over and over and basically always flipping civ. So, now we recognise that it isn't alignment-related behaviour. It's just him.
No, you didn't. He was referring to his lack of reaction to the suspicion initially, not subsequently. He quoted a post that I had made before enrique had responded. The fact that MP himself didn't defend himself with this very easily raised refute to your point indicates that he doesn't want to play with you in the thread Golden.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:01 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

I am going to be very busy for the next 48 hours so I will probably only make 100 posts instead of 300.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:10 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Golden wrote:Thanks for your psychoanalysis of MP, Mac. Lets see which of these is most likely to be true. Occam's Razor time.

1) MP claimed Enrique had never said something that he had said, but he only did it because he was putting it 'in context' and so was able to ignore the fact that Enrique said what MP claimed he did not say. MP fully knew that Enrique HAD said what MP claimed he hadn't, but he went ahead and said it anyway, knowing that you, Mac, would understand the so called 'context' of his post didn't include Enrique's actual response, that he claimed didn't exist. Then, when I pointed this out to him, he said 'thank you' to me, rather than him deciding to clarify that he intended that statement only to be read in context. He said thank you because he, the overlord of engaging people in the thread, and whom I have a very good working relationship with, wouldn't want to engage with me. Just because. But he also asked me for a gth read on you. Because he only wants to engage me a little bit.

2) Or... MP stated his (at the time) current thoughts on Enrique but had missed Enrique's post, and when he said 'thanks for pointing it out' he meant it, because I was helping him figure out where he stood on Enrique (whether it changes his mind or not), while at the same time clearly engaging me by asking me questions.

I dunno, take your pick people.
Firstly, the fact is that I called enrique out on the behaviour on day 0 and enrique did not reply then. The fact that he replied after I elaborated much later does not take away the fact that he did in fact reply to me with dismissive non posts. Yes, I do think it's fair for MP to have suspicion on enrique for an initial reaction without needing to address the subsequent one. The fact that he chose not to say "Golden I was referring to the fact that enrique didn't reply to Mac's initial points" alarms me, because it looks to me like that is entirely what he has done. I was not inferring that he doesn't want to engage with you "just because", I believe he didn't attempt a defense because he is already caught scum for other reasons and chose to take the easy way out and just apologise for his behaviour.

How MP chooses to respond to our conversation is going to be very telling isn't it.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:11 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

a2thezebra wrote:Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.
How is exploring intention behind in thread play insignificant nonsense Zebra?
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:17 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.
OK, so now I'll seriously consider a vote on zebra - the so-called champion of throwing stuff out and getting people talking wants to shut down my dispute with Mac. Why?
MacDougall wrote:Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.
That's a statement which I can only call target painting. Accusing someone of 'taking something out of context' is accusing them of having ulterior motives.

You don't think it is worth talking about how ridiculous that is? I do. Mac isn't merely wrong. He's pushing illogical shit. This should have you writing in caps.

I feel ok about Mac about it, but big ping on you!
Okay I don't it's fair to say that it's ridiculous. Firstly, my accusing you of taking it out of context was an accusation of you being at best lazy with your choice of where to start looking into this swathe of content that has been presented since you were last here, yes at worst I am accusing you of having ulterior motives. I'm sorry but I don't see how anything I have said is illogical.

MP quoted and agreed with the point I made that enrique failed to address my suspicions of him on day 0.

You said that was disingenous because enrique addressed subsequent suspicions on day 1.

I think you are the one who is being illogical. I know you are headstrong bordering on bullish Golden but if you fail to see my point then it is another poor reflection on you.
by MacDougall
Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:19 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

a2thezebra wrote:If you two were arguing about what MP's actual motivations would be for making any given statement then it would be fine.

linki - Because it's annoying, pointless, and distracting.
This sort of stuff is why you get lynched on day 1 and day 2 all the time Zebra. You are interrupting valid discourse simply to sling shit at both of us for what end? Because it's white noise to you? It's not white noise. It's valid discourse. If it's white noise to you, try a little harder to get to the heart of the matter rather than dismissing both of us as annoying, pointless and distracting. We appear to be attempting to get the heart of MP's motivations, you appear to be serving only the goal of suppressing discourse. For what gain?
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:57 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Tunneling indicates following something to the detriment of observing other things. What have I failed to observe? I've had interactions and heated ones with more players than anyone. To say I am tunneling sucks.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:29 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Zebra what the hell are you doing? You gave Golden and I shit for interacting with one another because it was distracting or whatever and now you are filling the thread with black or white reads on every player sometimes based on nothing at all. It's incredibly hypocritical.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:25 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

First, let me preface this by saying that I actually appreciate all the effort you have just gone to Zebra, quite a lot. It'd be nice if the appreciated was reciprocated when it came to my own efforts....

Pink in line responses.
a2thezebra wrote:MacDougall

Let's jump right in.
MacDougall wrote:
Enrique wrote::shrug2: I haven't voted at all. I was just wondering if there was a reason not to.
You're right, scum would heavily contemplate the potential of such a thing since their numbers are fewer ergo their demise has more of an impact on their team.
Well I see Mac's suspicion of Enrique was less humor-based from the start than I remembered it was...my response to this particular post is pretty much:
Enrique wrote:huh
That said, when Mac elaborated on his issue with Enrique later I was much more convinced and I think Enrique's responses to it have made him look worse. But I'll get to that when I get to that.
MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for analyzing this poll, folks!

I'm voting Alderaan, just to make the poll a bit more interesting, and because some people think it sounds OK. I doubt Epi made the results obvious though, if there are any (besides serving as a mechanic for the role that Golden pointed out).
I'm glad that in our first game together you get to be scum and I get to be civ.
Another bold suspicion from Mac. It also demonstrates why I disagree with Mac's MP suspicion; like I said earlier, he's just not used to MP's play style. If this post pinged him, anything MP says will ping him as well. However, as far as Mac's alignment is concerned, I think this looks good. - Cool, so I guess that gives MP carte blanche to be a scum read for me and get away with it because apparently I'm just wrong. There's nothing unusual about the posts I've called out at all. That's why MP himself apologised and corrected himself on quite a few of my points. Even he, the person I was calling scum could see the value in my suspicions, yet you don't. How weird is that?
MacDougall wrote:Requesting a policy lynch of MattF.
I did not think he was joking when he said this, but since he hasn't bothered Matt since (I think?) I do now. If it were anyone but Mac I would've concluded it was a joke when I first read it anyway.

This is a side issue (read: non-alignment-indicative) that I feel I should point out.
MacDougall wrote:The last thing you want to be doing is identifying a scum player by YOUR ping and telling them to stop what they are doing right? Is what you are criticising Zebra for scummy to you? If so, say so! If not, what is there to gain by telling her to pipe down? :ponder:
Mac, I think you're one of those people that easily misinterprets a suggestion from another player as some form of censorship, for lack of a better word. I say this because you made a similar accusation to me when I expressed dislike of your later spat with Golden. I did not get the impression from DDL that he was trying to silence me in any sort of way, and as DDL clarified in response to this, I was correct. - One of those people? Like who else? I wasn't wrong about either of you. You both attempted to silence people because you disagreed with their suspicions, or at best vociferously criticised to the point of it coming across like you were intending to get us to stop proceeding on what I feel are valid points. Disagree with me, sure, but the way you've been talking to me, and particularly about me, well tbh it actually hurts my feelings. It makes me feel like you think I am stupid.

You then proceeded to make gargantuan posts on every player with a HUGE colourful stamp on them. Talk about target painting sheesh, and talk about white noise. Half of your HUGE colourful stamps are based on next to no in thread content, and then you you refer to me below as misguided and earlier as distracting in my efforts. Unless you have the most amazing insight into this game, you almost certainly have just painted a huge TOWN sign on scum players and vice versa, with in many cases next to no thread evidence to do so. And you call me misguided and criticise my scum hunting. That's not fair at all.


After that, there's no specific post that I feel is worth noting. - Wow. So of all my posts there are just a couple of worth, the rest are worthless. Cool I'm really keen to put in the time to scum hunt now... I will say overall Mac is coming across as very genuine, and is playing a well-intended but somewhat misguided game. By misguided I mean that a lot of his conclusions seem to be missing crucial factors, and he's been tunneling a few players (Enrique, MP, Golden) pretty badly considering that it's Day 1. I fling shit everywhere, yes, but I try not to bite down on any particular conclusion until I'm certain. But hey, I'll take any attempts at scumhunting over a lurker any day. GTH, I think Mac is:

TOWN
Missing crucial factors. I would like you to point out crucial factors that I have missed, aside from meta that I would have no idea about.

Tunneling, please. I ain't tunneled nobody at all. How can one player tunnel three separate players. I was pinged by enrique, I explored my ping, I drew more out of him. I was pinged by MP, I explored my ping, I drew more out of him. I was pinged by Golden, he went all Golden but the same thing occurred. So scum hunting is just tunneling to you I guess...

Criticising my extremely analytical scum hunting that I actually invested a load of time into and for calling me misguided and telling me my points are missing crucial factors etc, despite my careful analysis of each and every one of them really makes me feel like shit Zebra because I think you are my strongest damn town read right now and this is how you are treating me. And people wonder why most games I just fluff about not saying a whole bunch of anything. When I think of things in a different angle I must be misguided etc. I will tell you time and time again I find scum where nobody else does because of it. So I won't be not doing it. I appreciate the town vote of confidence but your low opinion of my skill really makes me feel unappreciated and pretty much shithouse.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:27 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Golden wrote:As far as day one policy lynches go, lynching lurkers would be fine with me.

I've now seen several games here where the entire scum team lurk and play the game of trying to get the higher poster players to take each other out.
Yes in TH, after I was lynched the remaining scum were all the absolute lowest posters, Wilgy among them.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:30 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Matt F wrote:Golden

Nothing sticks out really, but he seems more playful then usual so far. Typically at around this time, if civ, Golden is picking a fight with another civ. Why hasn't that happened yet Golden?
a2thezebra wrote: linki - How nice, another reason to make my read more confident. Why are you so certain that Golden hasn't already picked a fight with another civ, Matt? Could this be a scumslip that Mac is your teammate?
Whoa whoa fucking whoa. Don't be talking like that jack. Golden picked fights with more than just me. Nah fuck that I ain't having it. Don't be chaining me to Matt fucking F of all people.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:32 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Golden wrote:
Matt F wrote:Golden

Nothing sticks out really, but he seems more playful then usual so far. Typically at around this time, if civ, Golden is picking a fight with another civ. Why hasn't that happened yet Golden?
Thats kind of low. Often by this point I'm picking a fight with a baddie.

But, this is one of the most common and yet untrue accusations that gets levelled at me. If you looked back at the games I've played on this site, you'll see I've been lynched early several times as civ for not having 'picked a fight' yet - most notably in economics where I was lynched day one and then got to sub in as a baddie and clean everyone up. No early fights in Biblical where I was civ. But I did have early fights in Bullets over Broadway where I was Indy.

Since you came back, you have played 4 games early with me. In Dune zebra and I got into a fight, but it was not me that 'picked it'... I said I had a small ping and he overreacted. In Talking Heads I had some dialogue going on with Rico, but it could hardly be called a fight (any more than the posts I exchanged with Mac today). The first time I picked a fight was day 2, and it was with the specific goal of getting people to lynch me. And World Reborn, you didn't see me go straight out and pick fights in that one either (although because it is ongoing, I recognise we can't dialogue on what that means).

Long story short - you are raising a false indicator of my affiliation. (And I think your representation that I am 'more playful' is incorrect too... I always try to be playful. It makes things fun for me.)
Let's face it, the only reason that there hasn't been a Golden in thread shitfight yet (there kind of has been but not to Matt's liking apparently) is because I've yet to respond to your most recent replies to me. Pretty sure that's gonna start some shit. XD
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:34 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

a2thezebra wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Zebra what the hell are you doing? You gave Golden and I shit for interacting with one another because it was distracting or whatever and now you are filling the thread with black or white reads on every player sometimes based on nothing at all. It's incredibly hypocritical.
Cry me a river and call me when you've read my posts. For the last time I wasn't giving you two shit for interacting with each other at all, I was giving you two shit because your conversation was getting worse and worse in regards to tunneling and bias-based content. I've seen conversations like those benefit scum in plenty of games; never have I seen scum benefit from someone posting their detailed reads. To call it hypocritical is further demonstrating how little you actually understand what I was in fact criticizing. Do you really think that I, Zebra, was boo-hooing earlier at the presence of content itself? Try again.
Considering I cop shit for being rude all the time it says a lot by by golly you are rude.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:40 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

a2thezebra wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Zebra what the hell are you doing? You gave Golden and I shit for interacting with one another because it was distracting or whatever and now you are filling the thread with black or white reads on every player sometimes based on nothing at all. It's incredibly hypocritical.
Cry me a river and call me when you've read my posts. For the last time I wasn't giving you two shit for interacting with each other at all, I was giving you two shit because your conversation was getting worse and worse in regards to tunneling and bias-based content. I've seen conversations like those benefit scum in plenty of games; never have I seen scum benefit from someone posting their detailed reads. To call it hypocritical is further demonstrating how little you actually understand what I was in fact criticizing. Do you really think that I, Zebra, was boo-hooing earlier at the presence of content itself? Try again.
Jesus H Christ...

Zebra...
a2thezebra wrote:Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.
I think the point was worth discussing. You didn't.
a2thezebra wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.
How is exploring intention behind in thread play insignificant nonsense Zebra?
But the disagreement has no effect on the intention. The disagreement is about what a post was referring to, and either way you interpret it the intention is the same: undefined.
So because the intention behind MP's post is undefined we shouldn't discuss our perceived reasons for it. Okay shut up shop kids this game is over. How in the world are we supposed to find scum if we don't analyse the intention behind posts? Like, is that not the actual point of the entire process?

Why do I even have to explain to you, someone who believes that myself and Golden are both civs, that what we were doing was scum hunting. If you don't see the value you in it then just say so and move on. Don't tell us it's pointless, we disagree. We play differently to you. Get over it. Us three have come to loggerheads too many times for this. There are differences in the way we approach the game. We all have talent for finding scum. We do it differently. Leave me to mine thanks.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:44 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Nothing has done anything to sway my perception of everything I raised towards MP. He's explained it in a way that rationalises it as reasonable behaviour, which he would do anyway. Disagree if you like, is normal, most people read my scum cases as jibberish because it's different.
by MacDougall
Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:21 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

I am playing differently in this game to the other games I have played on TS so far, so far, because I initially felt like trying hard, but I was basically told I suck so I maybe I'll just go back to being a dick to people.

Now if you don't mind I just finished watching Inside Out, while my four year old daughter (only child) was asleep in my arms, so I'm going to go cry into a pillow for the next two thousand god damned years.
by MacDougall
Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:04 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 1]

Wow not bad team. Not bad at all.
by MacDougall
Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:03 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Night 1]

MPs wall of text is a carefully constructed magnum opus designed to ensure players constantly over-analyse Zebra's posts I reckon. It's a genius scum play because Zebra is eminently lynchable early game yet here has a load of town reads so by doing so Zebra is quite likely to start doing things to raise the ire of other vociferous players. What a smart way to knock off the dominant town player.

MP you devilish fiend.

linki: Yes. I had a leadership seminar at work that I couldn't sneakily play Mafia instead of attending.
by MacDougall
Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:20 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 2]

Epignosis is a huge dick
He has played a very cruel trick
Because I failed to vote
That's why I wrote
This stupid fucking limerick
by MacDougall
Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:12 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 2]

Enrique wrote:Okay, whether Russ is indie or bad I don't know. I don't think he's up to any good, regardless.
Russtifinko wrote:Ok, so for the srs bsns I promised:

1) Voting Tatooine. Less for movie reasons and more because if we want info about Jabba's plans and our operatives found his plans in his palace, it makes sense to think his palace is a good place to start the search.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.
This is the controversial first post that got people talking about him in the first place. We've already gone over how problematic the first point is, but the first time this post was brought to attention was in regards to the second point. I'm talking about MP's infamous softball.
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.
I want everyone to discuss this.

How are these two statements compatible?
Reading this whole thing over again FINALLY allowed me to understand what was happening :doh: Russ and Zebra both look at DDL thinking "well, that's one way to appear civvie, but revealing this in the thread only helps the baddies avoid falling into that pattern." See, my problem with this would be the fact that the knowledge would be more useful to the baddies in their BTSC than sharing it with the thread, but this is caked under so many layers of WIFOM I won't bother making and argument for or against it. It just is.

Then there's this:
zebra, I'm actually NOT pinged by DDL's logic here. He's right - if Tarkin chose one planet that gets blown up, the baddies know which one it is, so you can be damned sure they'll avoid voting last at that planet and only that planet. The rest of us will try not to vote last on EVERY planet. So if DDL hadn't said anything, we could've looked hindsight to see if anyone who normally votes late voted early on the day the planet blew up.

What pinged me was that he blew this angle by explaining it, and then went hyper-meta with it. And I'm also slightly pinged that you were so quick to join me here, but with a different point.
"That pings me, this pings me." This confuses me, because as far as I can tell, that's Zebra's main issue with DDL as well. Yet he's playing it as if sharing that opinion is a bad thing?
a2thezebra wrote:I've never played with him before (either that or it's been far too long) so does he normally make a suggestion and then proceed to shoot down that very suggestion in the same post?
Yeah, right? As far as I can tell, all Zebra did was agree with him. I don't think she had a problem with DDL's logic as much as she just didn't understand it, and that's very fair, but it was not her issue.
Russtifinko wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Russ looks very civ to me
MacDougall wrote: I think Russ, has by and large come across quite well, except for the point that bcornett swiftly pointed out, and that you did not point out despite apparently being onto him as scum.

It looks to me like you are scum and you are day 1 distancing a scum teammate. Your case on him has all the hallmarks of it. You have confirmation bias when it comes to his posts.

His (Enrique's) response to bcornett's Russtifinko suspicion looks genuine and should Russ be scum, he would not be in my opinion.
Mac, c'mon, man. You can't say twice that I look really civ to you and then give two examples where you'll be sure of someone's alignment if I flip bad. You're setting me up for one of your "I don't think he's bad but we should kill him anyway" lynches.
Russ really doesn't like having friends in this game. Pings all over the place, especially for the people vouching for him. Not a word on MP and his softball, however. (Keeping in mind this whole discussion came from the post MP first pointed out, but not from the "civ-ish or baddie vs slightly pinged" aspect that MP focused on the entire time).

Then this happens? His first ever mention of MP.
Russtifinko wrote:Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone. :srsnod:

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?
Huh? That's a nice WIFOM covered in sarcastic orange but I don't understand the point of this vote.
Russtifinko wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone. :srsnod:

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?
An elaboration when you have the opportunity would be nice, Russ.
Not much to it, really. You're a troublesome sort, and it's a Day 1 vote. I had like 3 minutes and didn't know if I'd be back before the deadline.

For what it's worth, Enrique looks worse than Matt to me. But if I'm being honest, that's probably almost entirely because he voted me and Matt didn't, so my thoughts there might not be worth much.

Linki: Sorry Matt!
"No reason!"
MovingPictures07 wrote:Oh, okay, fair enough I suppose. Let me know if you have any concerns that I can address.
"Fair enough!"

Wait, what? What the hell is this interaction? Am I missing something?

No, seriously. What? Everything about the way they play it off confuses me. "How's that for baddie distancing?" It's so in-your-face I almost have trouble believing it happened. I would have bought a scenario where Russ was trying to get MP's name linked to him, but then MP is just like "hmm, okay!" and I just have no idea of anything anymore.
I totally see what you're saying yo
Particularly how MP just let's it go
When you look closer you can see
How this tactic came out of BTSC
It just doesn't have any flow
by MacDougall
Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:19 pm
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 2]

Enrique wrote:Golden, the proposed BTSC pairing would be MP and Russ, not me. I think there's a lot pointing towards something going on there, but I'm also hesitant to say they're in a team because if they are then every move related to each other has been so sloppy. It shouldn't be this easy to draw connections, and they should know better than that. The way they interact with each other is so bizarre.
Perhaps the answer that you seek
Lies in the role cards, take a peek
Not all btsc
Is made equally
Perhaps they are just meek
by MacDougall
Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:08 am
Forum: Previous Jobs
Topic: STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]
Replies: 5099
Views: 114982

Re: STAR WARS Mafia [Day 2]

It annoys me that this thread
Appears to now be dead
Me being limited
Should not have restricted
Finding out who we should pump full of lead

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