The Syndicate

Hi everyone

I'm going to check out Wayne Enterprises and see if they'll let me borrow any gadgets.

DFaraday wrote:So by the end of Day 0 we have like five feuds simmering already.

As far as the TH thing, it seems he was caught between a rock and a hard place. Scylla and Charybdis, if you will. If he said "we" someone will say he's trying too hard to seem civ (which Mac did). If he said "they" someone would say "Why aren't you including yourself in the civs?" So that's not suspicious to me. I know that, as both a civ and baddie, I've considered how to phrase things like that so that people won't jump on my wording.

This is how I feel about the "we/they" situation also. There was more to Mac's suspicion of TH though, this was just the latest bit.

Matt/zebra, golden/Enrique all seem to stem from miscommunications, am I correct thinking that?

DharmaHelper wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Civvie behavior is hard to define because we pretty much always act irrationally.
You went out of your way to write "we" here.
No I didn't.
I believe that you did. I think you went out of your way to call yourself a civ when the natural way to phrase that sentence would be to refer to civs as "they" but you were worried that someone would find it scummy for you to refer to civilians as that and didn't want to defend from a dumb comment. It's an irksome sentence. At best case scenario it's fluff content that you've created for the purpose of telling us you're a civilian.
Dunno, Sorsha slipped and said "you civs" in GOC and I correctly caught that.

Doesn't really matter for this game but if you or anyone else wants to add it to their "Sorsha meta" that wasn't a slip. I wasn't a civ and I tried really hard to not refer to myself as a civ, I wanted it known that I was a neutral role... hence me always saying "you're wrong DH, I'm not bad" instead of "you're wrong DH, I'm a civ." I'm not sure if anyone got it though.

Scotty wrote:Here's something that I have noticed, and am starting to trust least: when people are too nice in the early stages. Knocking on doors, handing out booklets of inner peace. I mean, it's nice to have that energy and environment over the opposite (for sure) but I see that more as indicative of not trying to cause waves. If you're a humpback whale in a kiddie pool, you're gonna make tidal waves, even if you try to turn over slowly.

But Scotty, what if I'm just a nice person looking to pat everyone on the back for doing such a good job and I'm actually civ?

Well cool on you. But I'm not buying it.

(I don't have specific people in mind with this thought process, but I'm getting it out there now before I pass out from this drunken stupor)

Yeah... Because people being too nice to one another is really a problem we have around here

Mac- other than his case against sig and his use of we vs. they, is there anything else about TH that you found suspicious?

a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:Okay after thinking about it more I guess not discussing locations isn't necessarily suspicious mafia behavior. Having said this I don't like that Zebra is saying me discussing locations is anti-town I think she is saying this for nefarious purposes.
That's not what I'm saying though. If you just wanted to discuss locations then I wouldn't think of that as anti-town, but it was you trying to urge people into discussing it that I suspected as having ulterior motives. Here's the post that really pinged me:

sig wrote:We are allowed to discuses the map options, but it might not benefit certain players. I think some of the messages are nonsensical while others might offer clues. Either way I think it is a neat addition. The question is who will be hurt from discussing messages? The mafia will be talking about it in BTSC so I'd think the civs are most likely to be hurt from not discussing it.
What I don't get is why you said that the question is who will be hurt from discussing messages...and you go on to immediately advocate discussing them as if that was a rhetorical question that you somehow already knew the answer to. I'm not convinced that you felt that the mafia having BTSC with each other is a good enough reason to assume that what Epignosis said can be overlooked and that the civs will be hurt from not discussing whatever information we've individually gained. So it's not that you wanted to discuss locations that I feel is anti-town, it's that I don't think your reasoning for wanting to do so was genuine.

linki - I don't think you're shifty, Scotty. You might be bad though.

If you were pinged by that second quote from sig above why did you share information with him about your location?

Did he?

Enrique wrote:Gun to head, sprit

Zebra isn't backtracking or making stuff up, her plan just wasn't very good to begin with.

What do you think her plan was though?

sig wrote:@Zebra Oh yes your plan. I was tone reading you as civ but all this talk of a secret plan doesn't seem civvie to me at all. Having said that I'm like Switzerland the land of bank accounts (I wish) chocolate and not going to war, so lets not engage in a wall post war.

Besides me who else are you pinged by?

linki: Enrique how would you discuss it? You obviously have an idea of what she is doing, but there is no way you know for sure unless you meant for that to be in BTSC and posted it here by mistake? :P (last part was a joke)

What do you think zebras plan is? Do you think she understood you 100% when you posted this:

sig wrote:I could discuss it Zebra yes and I plan to, but I don't want to be one of the only players to do this.

Basically someone has stolen money from Wayne Enterprise (ooops someone is getting firrred) and Fox is on the case. Top suspect is Hugo Strange and a possibly location which isn't a map location. So really no information here at all however, this doesn't mean other locations have no information.

I think the mafia would be more likely to vote for two different locations then just one.

Because I don't think she did.

sig wrote:I think her plan is to give either real or fake info that she got in an attempt to frame me/trip me up. From the limited information people have given I do think this all connects whether it give game knowledge.

Judging by Typhoony's reaction to what zebra said I think what she told you is true.

Turnip Head wrote:I don't care for it either, I don't think it's going to lead to anything worth voting for.

I don't think it will either. I think zebra was trying to discredit the info that sig has (whether she did or not remains to be seen) but that doesn't mean zebra is bad.

I do think this should be taken as a lesson to zip it about what we learn at our locations though.

Glorfindel- is that normal for nerolunar? To be around but not posting?

I had to go into work 3 hours early today for some training which means I'm... I don't even know how many pages behind...

I don't think wilgy is bad. He hates being bad and his posts usually reflect that imo. His posts in this game seem like he's having fun. Maybe he's an Arkham inmate but I doubt Mafia.

Dom wrote:
Sorsha wrote:I don't think wilgy is bad. He hates being bad and his posts usually reflect that imo. His posts in this game seem like he's having fun. Maybe he's an Arkham inmate but I doubt Mafia.
Do you think that means we shouldn't lynch him if that's the case?

I won't argue against it today. I don't even know who I'm going to vote for. I thought I was going to have another hour to catch up but this ends in a few minutes

Sorry I didn't vote. Like I said, I'm behind and thought I had at least a little bit of time to catch up but I was wrong. I'll have to catch up later after work.

Linki- I'm not opposed to it Enrique but it really comes down to I'm going to go where I want to go, so... I guess that means I should vote early in the night polls so I don't have to be "forced" to somewhere I don't want to go to.

Linki again- did anyone ask or have the hosts told us if it's going to be made public if the cop recruit was successful or not?

Never mind about that cop recruit question... I just saw that they pick a # not a player. So I guess for night 1 at least there will for sure be a recruit. But after that if the Mafia family chooses a # and that player happens to have been lynched or night killed it would fail.

So Hosts: will we be told if the recruit is successful?

Turnip Head- I've been trying to get a handle on why you've been suspicious of SVS. In AWR you and I had it worked out in BTSC how SVS was bad- lots of night action results plus her defense of some of her co-baddies, probably some other things I'm forgetting- yet you still didn't want to confront her in the thread in that game. So what's different this game? I don't think you'd be suspicious of her for no good reason if you were a civ and didn't really think she was bad, but day one just seems odd to me when there is so little to go on.

Also, RIPiywg Wilgy.

linki with Scott- I don't have much experience with Glorfindel but I don't think that someone having a friendly tone to their posts is suspicious. Unless its normal for them to be an a-hole.

Turnip Head wrote:
Sorsha wrote:Turnip Head- I've been trying to get a handle on why you've been suspicious of SVS. In AWR you and I had it worked out in BTSC how SVS was bad- lots of night action results plus her defense of some of her co-baddies, probably some other things I'm forgetting- yet you still didn't want to confront her in the thread in that game. So what's different this game? I don't think you'd be suspicious of her for no good reason if you were a civ and didn't really think she was bad, but day one just seems odd to me when there is so little to go on.
Well, one difference is I'm not bad this game :P You and Golden had all the civ cred in AWR, it wouldn't have had the same impact if that case came from me.

I don't suspect her for no good reason. I think I've laid out my thoughts on SVS as clearly as I can.

I didn't mean that you were suspecting her for no good reason here. But even in BTS in that game you didn't think she was really bad iirc.

Anyway, either you are civ and genuinely think she's bad here or you're bad and need to get her out of the way before she's on to you. Is SVS usually good at discovering you as a baddie TH?

linki- I feel like Glorfindel is going through what juliets has gone through about being so nice.

Turnip Head wrote:AWR was a different game Sorsha. I certainly went back and forth on her and considered all possibilities in light of the info we had.

As for your other question you'd have to ask SVS if she can read me well, but it's a weird thing to accuse me of. If I was bad and needed to get rid of SVS I could just kill her.

And if you read my posts I currently think SVS is indy.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it an accusation. I just thought it was weird for you to be so vocal against her on day one when no one has any info. For all the players who seemed to be on her yesterday I think yours would be the opinion I'd put the most faith in.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Okay, so regarding the d1 no lynch, I don't understand why so many people are upset. I know it sucks not to have a result, but chances are most likely that a civilian would have been lynched (mathematically). Furthermore, I don't understand why people are eliminating or leaning against Robin having stopped the d1 lynch. If I remember correctly, that's the only public reason the lynch would be stopped based on the role listing. Why wouldn't Robin stop it, especially if it gave him information on that insanely close vote tally?

I agree with the highlighted sentence, wouldn't that also be a reason for the mafia to kill him if they thought he was Robin too? Either situation, if they thought he was bad and on the opposing mafia team or if they thought he was Robin I'd see him as someone they would choose.

Matt- If Nero gets lynched today and doesn't flip mafia what happens to your Enrique suspicion?

Isn't it a Syndicate Mafia tradition to lynch the new player first? Maybe that's why there was a no lynch yesterday

I had been thinking of giving Matt the botd in his lynch Nero/Enrique crusade anyway (and I don't think Matt is bad, I think he's Indy based on a couple of posts he's made today) so I'll be voting for Nero today's since he's come up with both Matt and Enrique.

I hope you guys are right!

Yes, them being right about Nero. I will take responsibility for my vote if it turns out to be bad but really.... Most of these votes are coming in because of Enrique and Matt.

Great result... Hope you come back and play again Nero!

Enrique wrote:
Nerolunar wrote:Honestly Matt I think you fear for your own life. Trying to raise a mob against me and what not.

Strong Civ reads: Juliets, Mac and Golden. They seem very genuine and has brought on some good points. I find myself to mostly agree with these people. I should include Scotty here too since I too believe that Wilgy was Robin.

Slight Civ reads: Sorsha. This guy seems very reasonable but doesn´t post that much which strikes me as odd. Dom and MP also strike me as civvy.

My scum reads are Dharmahelper, Matt and Metalmarsh. Especially Metal as he has not explained his weird behavior of voting Zebra at the beginning of day 1. I have ased him that question a few times now and keeps ignoring it. If he doesn´t answer I might go ahead and vote him. Dharma because he only usually pops in to comment on something then leaves. Matt because he is being somewhat desperate to get rid of me and his weird conspiracy that is simply not true.

Linki These knock knock jokes are getting so annoying.
Sorsha kinda jumps out to me in this post. Do you think he hid his teammates somewhere in there?

I wasn't Neros teammate. Don't know about the others though, out of everyone named in that post I feel pretty good about all but MM who I don't have good or bad feelings about so far.

So yeah... No big surprise I'm behind in this game. I'm going to catch up in the zodiac game first though since it's only like 4 pages long. Be back later.

Enrique wrote:
Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I am not sure I understand the R'as thing. I was hoping to have it explained like I was in Kindergarten. I just read/skimmed most of the 200+ posts since the night post, and I am none the wiser.

Some of the names and reasons for potential Nero teammates are confusing to me. Sometimes things really ARE what they seem, so not sure why everything has to be bussing all the time. Sometimes you suspect someone, AREN'T their teammate and you vote for them and try to get them lynched. This still happens, right?

And is MP doing this on his own, or was he Penguined or what?
Zebra kept asking to be lynched
Zebra claimed she was inmate, but 'pro-town the entire time'.
Ra's just fits with her behaviour. It's a hunch, really.
I was thinking Catwoman. "Town-aligned" and all.

Bullz there's a specific reason I asked such a broad question and your response sits fine with me. I think Mr. Freeze blocked the killed because I publicly asked him to block Nero's suspected teammates and voilà, no kill last night.

I don't think Mac is Nero's teammate tbh. He acted hypocritically re: TH / eagerness to call oneself civ, but I don't think it's such a big deal and I'm not sold any of those interactions with Nero were less than normal.

MP is bullshitting, but I agree with him. sig is my number one suspect. More on this after I get out of class and ISOs aren't a pain.

Who were the other players that you asked mr freeze to block? Which one do you think is most likely Neros teammate?

Ok thanks guys.

I agree w/Enrique about it probably being mp, sig or sabie.

Sig- which one(s) do you think it most likely is?

As far as the Ra's/zebra thing. Hasn't MP been asking for lynch also? I'd say he's a top contender for my vote today but I'm usually wary when someone asks for a lynch.

Linki- TH I was reviewing your Mac case last night- and had gone back and was reading him from the point of Enrique doing the 180 on Matt/Nero and I just didn't really get the feeling that Mac was a Nero teammate. I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again. Good points on BR though. Time permitting I'll look over it/her posts in more detail.

Turnip Head wrote:
Sorsha wrote:I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again.
I hope my case didn't put you to sleep I'd appreciate it if you did look again, it's possible I made a subtle point that you missed which could change your mind.

No, just tired.

I did just look through BR's posts though and in addition to the points you raised she also mentioned being suspicious of Dom a couple of times. Is there any reason that was left out of your case on her? I'd also like to hear some specific reasons from her why she's suspicious of Dom.

SIG:

Sorsha wrote:Ok thanks guys.

I agree w/Enrique about it probably being mp, sig or sabie.

Sig- which one(s) do you think it most likely is?

As far as the Ra's/zebra thing. Hasn't MP been asking for lynch also? I'd say he's a top contender for my vote today but I'm usually wary when someone asks for a lynch.

Linki- TH I was reviewing your Mac case last night- and had gone back and was reading him from the point of Enrique doing the 180 on Matt/Nero and I just didn't really get the feeling that Mac was a Nero teammate. I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again. Good points on BR though. Time permitting I'll look over it/her posts in more detail.

sig wrote:@Sorsha why would I be one of the three he would freeze?

Or zebra, I should add, but she's dead.

I meant out of those on the list, if freeze did choose from it. I guess we are really just speculating on who WE would choose if we were mr freeze. So I feel pretty much ok about Enrique, DH and TH (mostly) I don't think I'd have blocked them. I'd have picked whoever I was most suspicious of or not sure of. I'm not sure of you or sabie and I'm at least a little suspicious of mp.

Golden wrote:I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.

Top suspect for being Neros teammate?

Golden wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
Golden wrote:I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.
Top suspect for being Neros teammate?
Mine was Enrique, although he has made some good points against it, which I need to look into further.

I think it wasn't zebra.
I don't think it's mac either.
Not really seeing it as DH.
Matt is the most unlikely of all. I also feel pretty confident saying it isn't juliets.
MP is a possibility

I haven't really had time to do my own analysis, which I want to. It could be someone we aren't looking at.

Would you buss your teammate on day 2 of their first game on this site?

Also, Mac, Matt and juliets aren't even on that list... Where do they come in? What about sig and Sabie? Sorry if I've missed where you explained it already.

Linki- I was asking specifically if Enrique was a top suspect as Neros teammate. I think Enrique is just one person.

Thanks golden... I don't know.... I'm not really believing that Enrique bussed a teammate on day 2. I'll try to look over the situation from that perspective later though.

(not looking forward to having to read it all again)

Dom- what do you think of TH's case on BR?

Dom wrote:
Sorsha wrote:Dom- what do you think of TH's case on BR?
I'm lukewarm about it if only that I'd like her to explain her thoughts more before making a judgment on it. Ya feel?

Yes. I'd like her to explain also.

MP are you poisoned and cursed? Or is the sig thing something else?

I'm leaning towards a BR vote also.

My second choice would be MP.

I'm voting for BR as I said earlier. Thought I was going to have time to look some things over and get caught up but I didn't.

I was hoping BR would be mafia but I'm happy with the Joker being gone.

DharmaHelper wrote:100% serious question, can we lynch the people we think won't be modkilled

I'm down for this or an MP lynch.

I'm also not totally up to speed with the past day or so of the thread, so not sure if something else has come up.

Turnip Head wrote:Un MP lynch is unleekely tu yeeeld a meffeea fleep in my oopeeniun boot I cun see-a he's gueeng tu be-a a pueent ooff deescoossiun es lung es he's in zee geme-a. I'll gledly iet my het iff he-a fleeps meffeea boot I'm tune-a reedeeng heem es genooeene-a. Glurffeendel is mure-a leekely tu be-a meffeea. I theenk Scutty mede-a a greet oobserfeshun ebuoot heem. Vhee esked vhu he-a soospects he-a curcled eruoond sume-a nemes insteed ooff cummeetting tu unytheeng. Zee ceefiliun Glurffeendel I reed in Peekmin is noohere-a tu be-a fuoond. Bork bork bork!

I'm futeeng fur Glurffeendel.

I agree with this about MP so I've changed my mind about voting him today. I'm guessing he's an inmate, I don't see him asking for lynch and letting either civ or mafia teammates down like that. Of course that could be what he wants us to think

DFaraday wrote:
juliets wrote:DFaraday I don't understand which of my votes you think is suspicious. Nero after Enrique completely backtracked and said don't vote for Matt? I was third out of many to vote. If not that vote which one are you talking about?
I'm sorry, I looked back over your posts and saw that you had been discussing Nero prior to your vote. I guess I'd overlooked that when I was catching up. I feel a bit better about you then! Sorsha, Bubbles, and LoRab had shifty votes though.

I do feel like there's merit to the MP case, since he's certainly not behaving in a town manner:

Relying on his meta
Calling for his own lynch, in which case, as Mac said, if he's a civvie may be trying to benefit us, but if he's a baddie, he's probably just screwing with everyone.
Implausible story about the hospital
Also, I feel like he is using emotionally manipulative language, saying things like "Nobody is giving me a chance" and "I've tried my best."

What vote of mine was shifty?

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Un MP lynch is unleekely tu yeeeld a meffeea fleep in my oopeeniun boot I cun see-a he's gueeng tu be-a a pueent ooff deescoossiun es lung es he's in zee geme-a. I'll gledly iet my het iff he-a fleeps meffeea boot I'm tune-a reedeeng heem es genooeene-a. Glurffeendel is mure-a leekely tu be-a meffeea. I theenk Scutty mede-a a greet oobserfeshun ebuoot heem. Vhee esked vhu he-a soospects he-a curcled eruoond sume-a nemes insteed ooff cummeetting tu unytheeng. Zee ceefiliun Glurffeendel I reed in Peekmin is noohere-a tu be-a fuoond. Bork bork bork!

I'm futeeng fur Glurffeendel.
I agree with this about MP so I've changed my mind about voting him today. I'm guessing he's an inmate, I don't see him asking for lynch and letting either civ or mafia teammates down like that. Of course that could be what he wants us to think
What changed your mind? I've been asking for my lynch since before you changed it, so it can't be that.

I don't think you're bad and now that you are apparently cured you're more likely to help out/participate. I'd rather vote a low poster than you at this point. Bubbles has been lurking in the thread since I've been around today but not posting.

MacDougall wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Un MP lynch is unleekely tu yeeeld a meffeea fleep in my oopeeniun boot I cun see-a he's gueeng tu be-a a pueent ooff deescoossiun es lung es he's in zee geme-a. I'll gledly iet my het iff he-a fleeps meffeea boot I'm tune-a reedeeng heem es genooeene-a. Glurffeendel is mure-a leekely tu be-a meffeea. I theenk Scutty mede-a a greet oobserfeshun ebuoot heem. Vhee esked vhu he-a soospects he-a curcled eruoond sume-a nemes insteed ooff cummeetting tu unytheeng. Zee ceefiliun Glurffeendel I reed in Peekmin is noohere-a tu be-a fuoond. Bork bork bork!

I'm futeeng fur Glurffeendel.
I agree with this about MP so I've changed my mind about voting him today. I'm guessing he's an inmate, I don't see him asking for lynch and letting either civ or mafia teammates down like that. Of course that could be what he wants us to think
What changed your mind? I've been asking for my lynch since before you changed it, so it can't be that.
I don't think you're bad and now that you are apparently cured you're more likely to help out/participate. I'd rather vote a low poster than you at this point. Bubbles has been lurking in the thread since I've been around today but not posting.
Sure if you want to put a vote on someone who's not getting lynched go right ahead.

MacDougall wrote:What would be the purpose of a Bubbles vote at this point, in your opinion, with no case to back it up?

Let's not forget Bubbles cast a very timely and important vote for Nero. She's not on that team, so that limits the chances of her being mafia even more.

What about MP has seemed civilian to you? To me, it seems like a pretty blatant reverse psychology gambit.

I didn't say I was voting bubbles how can anyone make a case on her or any of the other no shows? I just wanted to point out that she has been in and out of the thread today while I have been here and she hasn't posted anything.

Imo MP wouldn't be doing this if he had a team he was playing for, either his civ teammates or his Mafia ones.

LoRab wrote:MP's posts are reading, to me, like someone who wants to be lynched--not in a done with this game sort of way, but in a role needing to be lynched kind of way. Voting that way before I fall asleep on the keyboard.

Weren't you against this kind of thing when Mac was doing it in World Reborn?

Might as well vote for MP too I guess.

DFaraday wrote:
Sorsha wrote: What vote of mine was shifty?

Sorsha wrote:Isn't it a Syndicate Mafia tradition to lynch the new player first? Maybe that's why there was a no lynch yesterday

I had been thinking of giving Matt the botd in his lynch Nero/Enrique crusade anyway (and I don't think Matt is bad, I think he's Indy based on a couple of posts he's made today) so I'll be voting for Nero today's since he's come up with both Matt and Enrique.

I hope you guys are right!
You'd hardly discussed the case before coming in and voting, gave little reason for your vote, and tried to absolve yourself of responsibility by saying "I hope you guys are right!"

i explained this already

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