The Syndicate

First!

It wouldn't be a new record so no thank you, if you can lynch my day 0 then go ahead otherwise I'd prefer not to get lynched until mid game.

Ah good I get at least 48 hours of play in before I get lynched.

Turnip Head wrote:
sig wrote:It wouldn't be a new record so no thank you, if you can lynch my day 0 then go ahead otherwise I'd prefer not to get lynched until mid game.
Why do we fall, sig?

I don't now why do we fall TH?

So location wise it seems like we go to whatever place we vote for and it isn't the majority picks the location as it was in Star Wars?

Arkham Asylum, Where Independents escaped from, this could also be seen as their territory.

Wayne Manor Batman's/Civ faction house this would be the safest location to visit imo.

Wayne Enterprises Batman's/Civ business center, this could be seen as safe, but also a target for the mafia/Inmates

Fish Mooney's This is a gangsters/mafia area I think?

The Docks This would be more mafia aligned, since from what I remember from Batman alot of illegal activities occur here.

Gotham City Police Department One of the safest places except for the fact after night 1 we will have dirty cops. Which heightens the danger of this area. But, still more pro civ then many other locations.

City Hall Neutral area

Park Row (Crime Alley) Defiantly pro-mafia and inmates. Doesn't seem like a safe place to visit.

Blackgate Penitentiary This would be the regular prison, so I'd think we would be able to get more information about the mafia from this location.

Gotham City General Hospital The hospital would be neutral right now, but could be a target for inmates.

So I think Wayne Manor, the police headquarters, Blackgate, or maybe Arkham would be the best locations to visit. If we thing going to certain locations will give us clues on inmates/mafia I think it would be better to go to a location that would help us uncover the mafia. Or somewhere that would be seen as safer like Wayne Manor, at least until we now more about the map.

This is from Gotham's show wiki about Fish Mooney's

Mooney was a member of the Falcone crime family and the owner of Mooney's Nightclub.

This might be a good location to visit if we want information about the Falcone mafia faction. I'm unsure if this is a place in the comics so I'm just going on TV Show knowledge?

Mooney was also a semi helpful informant for the Gotham police so this location might help with knowledge about either crime family, corrupt cops, and inmates.

Thoughts?

linki: Well I was mainly thinking from the second Batman movie with Joker blowing up the hospital so it might be a target for inmates, I'd think the hospital could help players if they get poisoned or something like that.

Agreed I think we can leave out the hospital for the time being.

Turnip Head wrote:Or maybe we are choosing individually?

I'm not sure about this I'm assuming it is as a group like in Star Wars since it is a poll, also we aren't sending it in via PM like in World Reborn.

I agree with Golden I think it is better to hunt the mafia rather then the inmates overall the mafia are a larger threat, hunting the inmates will take longer as there are more and people who are inmates might not play as different as when they are civs, plus the mafia is a bigger threat they will only need one inmate dead and then the civs while the civs will need eight inmates dead and then the mafia it will help the mafia more to hunt independents then mafia.

I don't think going to the place they broke out from would be very helpful, I think it would be better to go to the locations the inmates are most likely to escape to.

Nerolunar wrote:I was under the impression that the inmates had left/are currently leaving Arkham. Maybe they are gone as we arrive.

Yes they are gone, I think the argument to go there is that we could get information about their current locations.

Independents will inventively get lycnhed and NK, two of them don't need to be killed at all. We have 6 (?) mafia we need dead, the mafia only needs 1 inmate each dead. IF we spend eight or more phases hunting inmates and not the mafia we will loose. If we somehow get almost all the mafia dead mid game, we can always stop pursuing them and focus on the independents.

Enrique's focus on the inmates is pingy to me and I see no reason to be saying we should focus on them and that Golden is pingy for not wanting to focus on them.

Bass is taking a jokey post and trying to make it serious. I was making a joke at my own expensive basically. Since last game I was lynched day 1 and I usually get lynched by mid game if not earlier. The fact Bass even called out an obvious joking post is suspicious since the mafia tend to be the only people who do this.

Turnip Head wrote:
sig wrote:Bass is taking a jokey post and trying to make it serious. I was making a joke at my own expensive basically. Since last game I was lynched day 1 and I usually get lynched by mid game if not earlier. The fact Bass even called out an obvious joking post is suspicious since the mafia tend to be the only people who do this.
Well you didn't mention this earlier, you ignored it completely... so I ask again, is there a reason you didn't respond to it at the time, especially if this is how you felt?

I didn't mention it since I saw no reason to, his point against me is either an attempt to set me up or is just foolish.

Turnip Head wrote:
sig wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
sig wrote:Bass is taking a jokey post and trying to make it serious. I was making a joke at my own expensive basically. Since last game I was lynched day 1 and I usually get lynched by mid game if not earlier. The fact Bass even called out an obvious joking post is suspicious since the mafia tend to be the only people who do this.
Well you didn't mention this earlier, you ignored it completely... so I ask again, is there a reason you didn't respond to it at the time, especially if this is how you felt?
I didn't mention it since I saw no reason to, his point against me is either an attempt to set me up or is just foolish.
That's where you lose me. How can you can think something is suspicious and also think it's not worth bringing up? It's not like you've been discussing more important matters instead; all your posts between Bass' post and this post have been discussing the Day 0 poll locations.

I need to pick my battles so to speak, me bringing up Bass's post would only draw attention to me and it isn't enough to build a case against him, I also think discussing the day 0 poll is very important.

Having said that I'll be going to Wayne Enterprises.

I don't see a real case against me at all TH I see you taking things out of context, I have not brought stuff up before as a civ and civ sig always gets lynched for "speaking his mind", and when I did answer Bass's point you used it to build a case against me SO I was right in not answering and you prove my point of it being a set up.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:As for Sig when I made that post about what you said I was just joking. I thought you knew that and that's why you never said anything about it. You bringing it up way later makes me wonder about you.

I didn't bring it up TH did and that is why I mentioned it. If you were joking then fine, however you saying this right after TH case seems staged to me. Also your post in no way seemed like a joke and if it was why didn't you comment earlier on TH's thoughts that it was just a joke? I don't think it was a joke and you're saying it is to further an attempt to lynch me.

I also find it odd TH that your first post was what I saw as joking back

Turnip Head wrote:
sig wrote:It wouldn't be a new record so no thank you, if you can lynch my day 0 then go ahead otherwise I'd prefer not to get lynched until mid game.
Why do we fall, sig?

But now you are trying to get me lynched for me making a jokey post and not responding to what seemed like an attempt to set me up. This is a weak case based around a weak reason. You also claim to have watched/played with me and never seen me not address something. How do you now what I choose to address or not? I'd also think after just hosting me and me getting mislynched day 1 for making jokey posts you'd be less likely to form a case against me based around a jokey post.

And yes I'm not talking as much at this point mainly since I don't want to be lynched/NK within the first three to four phases like I've been the last few games. You are also saying it is pingy that I mentioned Enrique. However this contradicts a later suspicion that you have of me that I'm not speaking my mind as much or talking even if it is a N U
YET when I do add in my two cents about Enrique and Bass your saying I'm throwing fuel on the fire which is it TH?
Also TH I wasn't going to deal with Bass in another way, I'm unable to do anything to him at night and even if I could I wouldn't I'm curies as to why you seem to be role hunting?

linki: TH your suspicion is based around me not responding to Bass post where he quoted me joking, so yes your initial suspicious comes from my joking post.

Okay Bass sorry if I sounded abrasive, yes TH brought it up first I wasn't going to mention it at all.

Does the SVS vs Zebra thing stem from a difference in opinion or is it hurt feelings? I'm rather confused with their back and forth.

I do like Spirt's few posts. I like his views about the main arguments.

I find it weird Mac only has one posts, but hasn't posted anything else.

I've also got a good gut read of Bea.

Besides that I don't really have anything else, there have been a few big arguments, but the only one I fully understand is Golden/Enrique.

I have a slight ping on Enrique.
I'm unsure about TH, but leaning mafia and I'm getting an off vibe from Glorfindel's post I'd need to see more of his before forming an opinion though.

linki: I never voiced suspicion of Golden though? I believed Golden was correct and we shouldn't be focusing on the Inmates, unless I'm misunderstanding you?

linki 2: Never mind about my Mac.

Turnip Head wrote:Yeah I played Dune, sig was on my team although I didn't know it I will say I don't see any connections between how sig played in Dune and how he's playing here. And that was another game where sig was lynched early. I do believe sig that he doesnt want to be lynched early, but I don't know if that makes him good or bad.

I wouldn't say in scale of the game I was lynched early, I also wouldn't have been lynched if not for two players abilities (thank you TH :P ) so my lynch in that game had nothing to do with my skill as a mafia member, in fact I had most of the players who where voting for me convinced I wasn't bad and trying to save me by forming a counter wagon.

What do you mean about me being suspicious of Golden in a post when I never said I was?

I was saying I also found it scummy that Enrique said Golden was a baddie for wanting to hunt mafia and not just the Inmates.

Zebra you should go get drunk and seduce someone I think is hot since ya now I'm to young and innocent to do either of those things, so you should do it for me okay?

I'm not sure we have the same type though so that might not work out quite well in the end but oh well.

:P

On a more serious note I'm glad I cleared up the TH thing, I see why he might have thought I was mafia and have bumped him back to neutral, of course he could also be mafia backing down since he wasn't gaining much traction.

I'm feeling good about Mac and would GTH him as a civ.

I was thinking about the Inmate thing and I'd be okay if we ended up lynching them, but I don't think they should be the top priority. However, if say Mr. Freeze starts killing people then yes we might want to focus on hunting him, same could be said for Poison Ivy or potentially Bane/Riddler. However, someone like Two Face or Penguin isn't necessarily worth spending time hunting imo.

@Equivocate (going to take me awhile to get used to calling you this smh) Why did you vote for Arkham Asylum? Also do you have any current thoughts on the game?

Equivocate wrote:Hello everyone. I've looked over most of what's been posted so far. I'm afraid that I won't have much (that's useful) to contribute in the short term. There aren't any past games for me to reference, no familiarity/prior experience with anyone, etc. Not using this as an excuse in the long term, but at the moment I don't feel I'm capable of offering anything besides bullshit theories/hunches that would be tenuous at best. That being said, my inexperience on this forum does afford me a pretty unique perspective; it may allow me to see things more objectively.

sig wrote:@Equivocate (going to take me awhile to get used to calling you this smh) Why did you vote for Arkham Asylum? Also do you have any current thoughts on the game?
It seemed like the logical place to go, considering. Also, nothing concrete yet. I'm still thinking things over.

Okay, from this one post Equivoc seems civvie. He has never been mafia/independent before so I don't have any meta for how he would play, but as I said from this post I've got a slight gut civ read.

I can see why she said it was alarming/shady, however I can't explain her logic behind it. I don't think this is an alignment indicator for anyone really, maybe a few inmates are going to Arkham to not draw attention to themselves, but that is all speculation.

Enrique wrote:
Golden wrote:Plus, Wayne Manor doesn't 'necessarily' need all independents dead. They just need some dead. For them, it matters less specifically who than it does for the cops, though,

@all - I expect today will be a low participation day from me.
Am I missing something?

I personally see Wayne Manor as full-on civvies, especially when you take into account that we all have different win conditions already. But, uh, whatever.

I still think Zebra comes off looking better in the recent exchange tbh. Like it usually happens, I'm not sure whether Matt really is that confused or he's just refusing to give her a point. If most of the thread understands what she meant, can we just move on? I don't think anybody is digging anybody's grave, but if anything it's Matt's stubbornness that stands out to me.

No concerns re: Nero. In the end I just think fighting about locations is a bit silly. Did I miss Epi's post saying no one has info? Because if that's really the case, then yeah, this is moot.

Do you think Wayne Manor starts out at 0% or 100%?

The way I see it is that the Wayne's are pro civ independents. It would be in their best interest to work with the civs, however they don't need the civs to win and could easily throw us under the bus to achieve victory. They could in theory win with the mafia, so they are pro civ, but we shouldn't count them as civilians.

Matt wrote:Unfortunately, I seem to be on the losing side of the argument here (again...I was on the losing side in Star Wars too where, yup, I called Zeebs out on her sketchy behavior there too), so hopefully peeps don't see her adversary (me) and go "Oh well guess we'll vote him".

I'm not Batman or anything but it will simply be a waste of a day if that's where we're going. Seeing Enrique call me stubborn and a few others (Golden for one) acting suss of me does not make me feel good about tomorrow's lynch, but anyway, just throwin' that out there.

I'm not sure I like this post, I haven't seen anyone say you should be lynched yet?
I don't think you are mafia and at this point and wouldn't lynch you.

Typhoony wrote:
Golden wrote: You and I definitely see game mechanics the same way, sig. Wayne can win with the mafia. They don't want to (because killing mafia nets them points and killing civs subtract points) but ultimately they will do what they need to do to win, and if that means taking out the last civ to end the game alive and above 100% they would do so.
It's difficult for Wayne's Manor to win with the baddies. Adding up all the percentages available in the game nets them 100% (with Rupert Thorne being the wildcard).
If a baddie team wins, it means that atleast all of GCPD (11) are dead + one other baddie team (3), giving them a base percentage of 11*-2+3*5 = -7%. Best case scenario, they would need at least 9 of the Arkham Asylum dead. If one of Wayne's Manor dies, they would need all the inmates dead. I don't see a scenario where they will be in favor of a civ lynch, ever.

Matt wrote:(cept nub Typh)
no u

Ewww math.
This is true, which is why I said they are pro civ indys, but I think they'd win at the expensive of GCPD.

Dom wrote:SVS, do you know if Glorfindel is from the US?

He is from Australia, so maybe he got some kangaroos to help him write it? :P

Glorfindel is always regardless of alignment polite and has a weird way of saying things sometimes he seems to polite, but it is usually genuine. He has a harder time of being polite and seeming sincere as mafia which is why I find it interesting you say his posts seem crafted. I don't think he is being coached, but if his messages do seem crafted it is probably because he is mafia trying to copy his civ tone.
Then again you might think his posts are crafted simply because of the way he posts while he is simply posting the way he usually does.
I'm null on Glorfindel right now, but have been pinged by him.

@MM why did you vote for Zebra?

I could see lynching a lower poster at this point, but lets not get into the only lynch low poster mind set. Some players don't have as much to say or are simply intimidated by our mega posters. We can see high posters don't necessarily equal town, but as of right know I don't have many mafia reads.

I am getting civvy vibes from Zebra and Golden.
I liked spirityo's earlier posts as well.

Scum read wise I really don't have many I've got a slight scum ping on Enrique and TH. I don't like Enrique's early opinion of the inmates, but the more it was discussed the less scummy his view seemed.
My main suspicion of TH came from his case against me, but it seems like that was a misunderstanding. I'd like to see a few more posts from our more silent players.

We are allowed to discuses the map options, but it might not benefit certain players. I think some of the messages are nonsensical while others might offer clues. Either way I think it is a neat addition. The question is who will be hurt from discussing messages? The mafia will be talking about it in BTSC so I'd think the civs are most likely to be hurt from not discussing it.

a2thezebra wrote:Let me make it clear right now that I refuse to support the lynch of a low poster.

Why?

a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Let me make it clear right now that I refuse to support the lynch of a low poster.
Why?
Because in my experience that has never benefited the civ cause. Not once.

Do you think it is more common for the mafia to push for lynching low posters or to defend low posters?

a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Let me make it clear right now that I refuse to support the lynch of a low poster.
Why?
Because in my experience that has never benefited the civ cause. Not once.
Do you think it is more common for the mafia to push for lynching low posters or to defend low posters?
It depends on the situation. You could have some mafia wanting to defend a low poster that they know is civ if everyone's going after them, and you can have some mafia wanting to lynch low posters if no one's going after them so that they can't really be blamed for the low posters flipping civ since there wasn't that much content to misinterpret. In a game like this with multiple factions and a ton of indys there's no telling, but in any case I don't think a low poster lynch will be beneficial. I think we want to go those who are talking more so that if we get a mafia there, we'll have lots of content to look for connections and create a domino effect for dead baddies. A low poster lynch, even if it's not a mislynch, only helps us with numbers slightly and always leaves us at square one for the scumhunt.

Okay I agree with you here, if a low poster has said something slightly suspicious then sure I'd be down for lynching them, but if they haven't it is a waste imo. If the player is completely inactive and never post they will either be mod killed or replaced so say lynching none posters is a waste.

I seem to remember Scotty pushing this in past games regardless of alignment?

@Scotty if you could choose which low poster got lynched today which one would it be and why?

a2thezebra wrote:
Enrique wrote:Zebra, your team in of Montreal got away with making up a role and getting Made lynched because nobody who was paying attention was left. Inactive players are a huuge disadvantage, and there's no guarantee they're not bad either.

I'm not saying this isn't the case, all I'm saying is that aiming for their lynch unless there's simply no other option is something I can't agree with and can't get behind it.

I haven't paid a lot of attention to sig but I don't like the way he talks about me vs Golden. Then again I feel this way about sig in almost every game... at the beginning he's sensible and I agree more with him than most, then we completely lose track of each other.
sig pinged me pretty hard very recently when he advocated encouraging map discussion from the civs, when the host himself has said that it is essentially discouraged for everyone in general.

The second and imo more important part is Zebra. She is one of the few people who visited a place on her own and is trying to shut down us discussing any messages we received. This is very pingy. The mafia will already be sharing any information they got and they would most likely have picked different locations. The fact she doesn't want to discus this at all is troublesome to me. The host did say it was discouraged true, but we are still allowed to do it.

I'd like some other opinions on this. Should we or should we not share information about map locations?

linki: It was one of the main reasons for your conflict with Golden, and I thought you where implying he had anti civ motives or not wanting to equally focus on the inmates. Since then I think you've clarified your stance on the inmates/mafia and I find it less pingy. However, yes that is how I perceived portions of your discussions.

I could discuss it Zebra yes and I plan to, but I don't want to be one of the only players to do this.

Basically someone has stolen money from Wayne Enterprise (ooops someone is getting firrred) and Fox is on the case. Top suspect is Hugo Strange and a possibly location which isn't a map location. So really no information here at all however, this doesn't mean other locations have no information.

I think the mafia would be more likely to vote for two different locations then just one.

Enrique wrote:okay sig that's not a good look. It's like you simultaneously borrowed from and completely ignored my last post.

I already said we should share some information about our locations, so of course I'd share the information I had, if I didn't it would have looked even worse no?

a2thezebra wrote:I'm playing along now to catch some fish.

Interesting choice of wording isn't it?

good luck Enrique.

a2thezebra wrote:It's hard to talk about it explicitly because part of my playing ball with sig involves him not knowing what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm going to go walk my dogs and purchase some potato wedges. I will return later.

You should play ball with it to (the dog). Also I call into question her buying potato wedges who actually buys those things.

@Scotty I'd disagree with lynching lovedelic they simply might not be aware the game has started, so lynching them day 1 would be kind off mean?

@Glorfindel two questions. What do you think of zebra and what do you think of map discussion?

I have never said I perform far better, slightly better yes, but that is mainly since the mafia isn't trying to get me lynched when I'm one of them. Having said that I find it interesting you are building a case against me based on what I've said outside of all games and in casual conversation that isn't something civ Glorfindel would be as likely to do. I've already been suspected this game and in several civ games I am just as self assured (which I don't even think I'm being in this game?) in fact I was more assured I was right in Pikimin then most games.

Though lets not bring up Pikimin my game play there should be forgotten.

It isn't a persistent push to discuss maps I've brought it up and am trying to create discussions around it, but I'm not hounding anyone to talk about it. Putting persistent in front of push is an attempt to make it seem like I'm being stubborn and anti-town, stop using evil adverbs on me :P .
I also find it odd you quoted the post where I said I had a ping of you? Then preceded to try and make a case against me.

Glorfindel wrote:I voted City Hall for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I've no idea at all what the hell I'm doing in this game and being the 'outsider' I always seem to be, it seems appropriate for me to select such a location. At 13 pages, this game has gotten so far away from me now... I just can't...

Again Glorfidnel was I believe the only person to go to City Hall yet he doesn't want to share what he found out. This seems scummy to me and I know other people disagree however, my opinion on that won't change. Nothing much else here, I think him using the term outsider is strange, though I'm assuming he means from a lore point of view.

Glorfindel wrote:And I had such high hopes for this game... I'm sorry guys...

What instigated you to make this post Glorfindel? I'm just interested since you had the same sort of defeatist posts in Star Wars a game that you where mafia in. Also meta wise I know you hate to be mafia so this was an eyebrow raiser.

Glorfindel wrote:Well, 20 pages in and I'm not much the wiser. I don't know a lot of the players here (well, not well anyway) but from the time I have spent here, I'd draw one conclusion. I played with Zebra in Star Wars and I saw a really slick performance from a very confident operator who always seemed in control. In Pikmin, I saw Zebra as a very transparent Townie who was picked off early by the twin forces of evil and ignorance. This game, I'm getting Pikmin vibes from her again. She's playing demonstrably differently to how she did in Star Wars and while it's possible that she is simply using her extraordinary ability to pull the wool over my eyes, I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm simply not getting bad vibes from her at this stage.

a2thezebra wrote:Like, I don't articulate myself very well very often. Fine. But I fucking try. I try to get people to understand and if anyone has a concern no matter how many or how much, I try to address them, even if I feel like it's something I've already addressed and explained as many times in as many different ways as I can conceive of. But when I feel like the same isn't being done for me, it kills my motivation to keep putting in this effort. Because where is it getting me?

I don't understand how someone can spend an hour and a half writing a post addressed to someone to explain their suspicion of them and not only have it not acknowledged but then that person has the nerve to demand that the person that put in that effort start answering their questions as if they haven't already done that, while constantly misrepresenting that person.
I know this is probably a stupid thing to say but you sound really frustrated here Zebra. I understand why and try not to worry - not everyone is oblivious to your efforts. Whilst it'd be a disaster if you were Mafia, I think you're a huge asset to us if you're not and I for one would like to give you the the chance to help us win this

Some defense of Zebra here not much to go on otherwise. Seems like regular Glorfindel to me.

Glorfindel wrote: Yes. I'm sorry, so very sorry. The last few days haven't been good for me personally but it's amazing what a good night's sleep and som straight-talking can do. And thank you for your support I said I'd try and I don't want to let you guys down any more than I already have.

There seems to be a number of players (not unlike myself) that don't seem to have made much of an impression yet so I'd like to hear some more from them. The one person I'm looking closely at right now is Matt. Please don't get me wrong - he's a really lovely guy and I do respect him and his opinions a lot. I am concerned though - based on my (admittedly limited) experience of him in previous games, his performance this game appears uncharacteristicly rattled. I can accept that his judgement may be way off again like it was in Pikmin but his behaviour seems noticeably more 'hostile' than I've seen from him before...

I don't think you've let the players down Glor so no need to apologize.

I can't say off the top of my head if civ Glor is as likely to minimize how much he knows of a player, but the way he is doing it this game seems like an out in case said player gets lynched and flips civ, this might just be me nitpicking though.

Glorfindel wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:Well, 20 pages in and I'm not much the wiser. I don't know a lot of the players here (well, not well anyway) but from the time I have spent here, I'd draw one conclusion. I played with Zebra in Star Wars and I saw a really slick performance from a very confident operator who always seemed in control. In Pikmin, I saw Zebra as a very transparent Townie who was picked off early by the twin forces of evil and ignorance. This game, I'm getting Pikmin vibes from her again. She's playing demonstrably differently to how she did in Star Wars and while it's possible that she is simply using her extraordinary ability to pull the wool over my eyes, I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm simply not getting bad vibes from her at this stage.

a2thezebra wrote:Like, I don't articulate myself very well very often. Fine. But I fucking try. I try to get people to understand and if anyone has a concern no matter how many or how much, I try to address them, even if I feel like it's something I've already addressed and explained as many times in as many different ways as I can conceive of. But when I feel like the same isn't being done for me, it kills my motivation to keep putting in this effort. Because where is it getting me?

I don't understand how someone can spend an hour and a half writing a post addressed to someone to explain their suspicion of them and not only have it not acknowledged but then that person has the nerve to demand that the person that put in that effort start answering their questions as if they haven't already done that, while constantly misrepresenting that person.
I know this is probably a stupid thing to say but you sound really frustrated here Zebra. I understand why and try not to worry - not everyone is oblivious to your efforts. Whilst it'd be a disaster if you were Mafia, I think you're a huge asset to us if you're not and I for one would like to give you the the chance to help us win this
So you read the whole thread? Awesome

Fresh eyes are a good thing. I see you have strong opinions on this one situation; do you have any thoughts on Enrique vs Golden? Golden played Star Wars. What about Mac & TH? Did it read like a slip to you? All of these things took over the thread for a time. You have commented fairly in depth on one; I would appreciate your thoughts on the others.

While I am still waffled on Zebra, I feel pretty much the opposite to you regarding Matt. Having just hosted him bad, I will say that him jumping out the gate and speaking his mind is very par for the course for civ Matt. He knows he may frustrate people, but he dowesn't just speak his piece, he OWNS his piece. He takes that piece andhe does the cha cha on it. Bad Matt was a bitmore cautious about going full out until endgame. Not seeing that here.

I was also fairly involved in that situation, at least at the beginning. Any opinion on me? My thoughts on Zebra were pretty much really similar to Matts. Since your one towen read, Zebra, and your one bad read, Matt, come from the same situation, I would be interested in hearing your opinion as well.

Taking a break was good, and the second half of Day Zero with my unchangeable vote already made seemed like a good time [/hissy]

I did not and do not find anything odd about THs word choices. I have seen people lambasted for "trying too hard" by saying "we", and also seen them attacked for saying "they", like, "Oh aren't you a civ, that you talk about 'them' in the third person?". And his reaction was more inline with what I would expect from him as a civ. He would have been smoother & shrugged it off more had he been bad, I think.

That said, I trust Macs tone reads, in the games I have played with him, I have seen him to have a good gut. So not particularly suspecting TH, but will keep more of an eye on him than I may have done. I am not one to discuss who I trust, but if I did have oneof those lists, while TH would not be the top name, hewould be very far from the bottom. Mac, too, really.

Now that you have done so, Glorfindel, I need to reread the thread some today to clear out my preconceived notions.
Thank you for replying to my post my friend . I acknowledge your opinion on Matt and that it appears to be different to mine. You may indeed be in a better position to judge than I but I can only speak from my experience. I agree with you on one point though, he DOES own his piece - even when he's wrong, which I feel at this point he is about Zebra.

As for Mac and TH, I really don't know. From the little I've seen of TH I think he's too experienced and capable to have made that kind of silly mistake. From my experience in these games on other sites (and I speak from first hand experience) I know precisely what it's like to be so convinced that someone is Mafia based on a 'slip' like that only on the vast majority of occasions to be proven wrong. Like the King of Siam in the King and I, I find myself second guessing myself a lot more these days. I may have missed the Golden/Enrique confrontation of which you speak and will go back and have a look. I'll admit I kinda like Golden (from my experience of them in Star Wars and so far here) but again, I need to review this matter. Please don't think I'm clearing people here with some kind of gay abandon - because I'm not. I'm not familiar with the playstyles of most of you and am not stupid enough to do that. My approach in these games is usually cautious as it is right now. I trust you can appreciate that.

He is usually cautious, but he seems more so this game then usually, not sure if it is an alignment indicator or not. Two things though
@Glorfindel WHat do you mean by TH is too experienced? Do you think it was a fake slip or something else?
Also have you reviewed the Golden vs Enrique argument if so what are your thoughts on it.

Enrique wrote:sig if it wasn't for that last night I'd have no idea that you were talking to me. What's up? Actually I'm not sure you are because none of the other has anything to do with me... okay I'm confused.

FTR I was the only one to vote Blackgate (at your suggestion) and I'm not about to openly discuss what I found. I see this as the pro-town approach and you're not gonna convince me Glorfindel is bad because of it.

I was talking to Glorfindel in the last few posts, sorry for not making it clear.

@SVS What do you mean?

@SVS this post.

S~V~S wrote:Predictably bizarre.

Zebra the question is did they taste any good?

a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:I voted City Hall for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I've no idea at all what the hell I'm doing in this game and being the 'outsider' I always seem to be, it seems appropriate for me to select such a location. At 13 pages, this game has gotten so far away from me now... I just can't...
Again Glorfidnel was I believe the only person to go to City Hall yet he doesn't want to share what he found out. This seems scummy to me and I know other people disagree however, my opinion on that won't change. Nothing much else here, I think him using the term outsider is strange, though I'm assuming he means from a lore point of view.
Please explain why that is scummy to you. Especially since you're so dead-set on it being scummy that you outright state that your opinion won't change.

linki @ sig - Absolutely. I'll take them over french fries any day.

I just find it to be scummy/Inmatish to hide information especially if it might help us to catch people.

DharmaHelper wrote:Enrique brought up a good point. The mafia right now are two groups of two, so like, does anyone think they'd have the balls to actively participate in early talks? I don't. This bodes well for the current crop of dicussions, and reinforces my thought that nothing suspicious has really happened yet.

I didn't think of this, which actually sounds like a good thought, then again if a high poster gets mafia would they change their play style that much and be able to remain unnoticed?

"not in your best interest" Whose interest though? It isn't in all players best interest but I'd think it could be in the civs/pro civ independents best interest. This doesn't seem to be the general conscience of other players though.

Okay after thinking about it more I guess not discussing locations isn't necessarily suspicious mafia behavior. Having said this I don't like that Zebra is saying me discussing locations is anti-town I think she is saying this for nefarious purposes.

a2thezebra wrote:
Sorsha wrote:Did he?
I'm not sure.

I don't believe this I think you are backtracking and trying to come up with a "good" reason for why you gave out info after getting called out for doing it. Your responses regarding this seems disingenuous as is your attempt to cast shade/suspicion on me.

a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Sorsha wrote:Did he?
I'm not sure.
I don't believe this I think you are backtracking and trying to come up with a "good" reason for why you gave out info after getting called out for doing it. Your responses regarding this seems disingenuous as is your attempt to cast shade/suspicion on me.
How am I backtracking? I don't care if you think my reason for giving info was good or not. I'm not casting "shade" on you, I'm saying what I think. What makes you think it is disingenuous? Do you think my suspicion of you has been disingenuous from the get-go or is it only now becoming disingenuous? Please elaborate.

I think it is disingenuous that you didn't think we should give info, going so far to say I looked scummy for trying to get info from people, then gave out info, only to later say you are trying to trap me and that is why you gave info. However, you aren't sure if your trap worked? It just seems disingenuous. Backtracking might have been the wrong word usage, but again you said you wouldn't give info, gave it, then said it was all done to entrap me?

linki: GTH = Gun to Head so it is off the top of your head without any thinking making a read. So if I said GTH how do you read me, you'd say the first thing that popped into your head.

linki 2: aww Enrique explained first. Okay maybe not, but I wasn't believing she had this plan to begin with so suddenly having a plan seemed like backtracking/disingenuous

Enrique wrote:sig therems nothing disingenious in taking the hosts' word that it's a bad idea. Zebra wanted to do this all along, I saw it coming from a mile away, but the execution wasn't great and then she just gave it away for some reason.

She's been arguing against info sharing all along. No other explanation ever made sense.

Which is why I said she was being disingenuous though I guess that explanation makes more sense. Why though?

@Zebra Oh yes your plan. I was tone reading you as civ but all this talk of a secret plan doesn't seem civvie to me at all. Having said that I'm like Switzerland the land of bank accounts (I wish) chocolate and not going to war, so lets not engage in a wall post war.

Besides me who else are you pinged by?

linki: Enrique how would you discuss it? You obviously have an idea of what she is doing, but there is no way you know for sure unless you meant for that to be in BTSC and posted it here by mistake? :P (last part was a joke)

I think her plan is to give either real or fake info that she got in an attempt to frame me/trip me up. From the limited information people have given I do think this all connects whether it give game knowledge.

Enrique wrote: I figured her goal was to make you go somewhere or maybe use that to try to figure out where the money went. Who knows. But the info was always faake.

(or was it?)

Why would you think it is fake or not how would you know this at all?

and yes I saw the tiny text I don't see why you'd assume it could be fake though?

Sorsha wrote:
sig wrote:I think her plan is to give either real or fake info that she got in an attempt to frame me/trip me up. From the limited information people have given I do think this all connects whether it give game knowledge.
Judging by Typhoony's reaction to what zebra said I think what she told you is true.

Agreed.

Also @Enrique what civ motives would there be for her to force me to go to a certain location? That seems more like a negative trap role.

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