The Syndicate

A lot of posts devoted to talking about a mechanic that only matters to endgame numbers for the mafia(with a chance to cancel out naturally), that only could slightly assist the cops in finding the Dons, who to our knowledge have no means of harming them. The question now is to look towards Wilgy who started it or DDL who went full on with it, claimed it made Wilgy likely town and took way too long to acknowledge it as a distraction to actual scumhunting.

Dragon D Luffy

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@Soneji, question for you. Do you think my early banter about game mechanics is any different from the other 10 games or so where we played together?

I never payed enough attention to you in games to remember your habits. I would say that on NF if you had ever talked about game mechanics that had such minimal possible pro-town results for as long as you did here I would have found you suspicious for it. I personally love ability speculation and warning town of certain ability exploits. The problem is that the discussion on the Traitors absolutely dominated early conversation despite its low chance of making a meaningful difference.

Totally forgot that this forum does night posting, only really had time to skim the thread. ika looks like a fine enough lynch target from my quick read through, with him buddying people, fluffing and refusing to give reasons for his suspicions. There are times when you hold back thoughts on a player but not when you're accusing them.

ika

Through page 17. Have had less time/motivation then I thought.

Enrique wrote:DrWilgy

Enrique wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Can we oink get a 29 player bandwagon on Enrique oink if he doesn't come explain his vote?

I'm a wildcard.

Enrique wrote:

Enrique wrote:

Enrique wrote:d i s t r a c t i o n

An unexplained vote and fluff/random behavior but hes paying enough attention to note the distraction of the traitor discussion. Certainly sets off alarm bells.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Actually that raises a question: how the hell are the cops supposed to get rid of the dons?

Because having most of their famiglias ovote for them is possible but not realiable.

Are we to assume the cops win if only the Dons are left?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I care. If we are discussing how to protect the dons, I wanna know what exactly threats them.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:So I'm suppose to assume if both hitmen go down, cops lose the game automatically?

EASIEST GAME EVUR

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:What i mean is: the hosts are hiding something from us. I want to speculate on what. "Who cares" is not an answer, we should care about it.

On top of earlier pointed out posting about traitors on the first day phase, here is another fairly pointless diversion. If the cops do have a means of taking down Dons, its hidden from us and nothing in any of our shown roles can be used to stop this unknown threat. Treating this like a NF role madness game with counterbalances isn't going to accomplish anything worthwhile. Its all down to us finding who the cops are and the Dons doing their best to stay hidden.

Sloonei wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:With that, a few points.

- Enrique has posted nothing but smilies and refuses to answer anything. I don't think this is enough for a lynch, but I wish he started being more helpfun soon.

- Ika made a vote for Silverwolf just for the sake of "getting her to talk". Which is pro-active, but not really necessary, and reeks to me of an attempt to look like he is doing anything. Of course it's mostly paranoia, but I might as well point it out.

- Sloonei doesn't have the time to participate but he apparently has time to read the thread, think I'm suspicious and demand answers from me. I find that curious.

- Matt was way more active last game I played with him. he couldn't shut up. Now he only made one post, about how he intends to read Zebra. I know this is too soon for make such demands, but I miss active Matt.

Don't know if any of those are useful but we might as well discuss them. 28 hours to go, let's move guys.

My behavior is curious in that I am curious about the game, sure. I'm not sure what else you could mean by that.

Diiny wrote:You know exactly what he means but you disagree, why pretend otherwise?

Sloonei wrote:

Diiny wrote:You know exactly what he means but you disagree, why pretend otherwise?

Perhaps I was feigning aloofness.

Dodging questions with vague answers.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I thought he was implying that, here we go, we already have people saying they are not caught up to the thread and it is only halfway through day one.

Nah. I was just amazed that I vote the guy and he shows up and posts.

There was around a half hour between your post and his. Enough to say that it could be him just getting into the thread and seeing current topic of discussion and your post rather then watching over the thread to see if hes mentioned.

Epignosis wrote:Enrique, look at that pretty little tie.

I hate announcing my votes by the way. I'd rather just vote and let people figure out on their own I voted for them. Much more effective.

More effective at what exactly? At delaying any challenge to your vote?

Sloonei wrote:I will not be apologizing or moving my vote off her until/unless she responds. Or else it would have been an entirely pointless exercise. But I certainly don't intend on that being my final vote.

Announcing that it wouldn't be your final vote makes voting to pressure her into responding pointless.

Enrique wrote:

Diiny wrote:Is Enrique normally like this?

Why shouldn't we lynch you for not explaining your terrible vote?

Because I'm a civ.

Diiny, why did you hop on my joke vote?

First on the Diiny lynch is not surprising Enrique with the "joke vote" angle. Joke votes can work as bait but not when you're not cooperative for a significant amount of time afterward and ignore others(like Epi) who voted against you on the same basis.

Golden wrote:Voting Diiny for now

He reminds me of the game where we were bad together, getting stuck in and creating a supatown image very early. If we are talking about there being meat to the bones, I think Diiny has been happy chasing bones with no meat at all.

Diiny - which bones that you've been chasing do you actually think have meat? You seem to be asking a lot of questions of people to provide reads, but the only read I really get a sense of from you is ika (I don't even know if you genuinely suspect wilgy). What are your current views on who seems good and bad?

Second on the Diiny lynch, we have someone using meta for their argument on a player that up until this point was making solid points. That some of those points were against what Golden views as low hanging fruit isn't that relevant, not on a day 1.


Golden


How are voting records accessed on this site?

I think Golden looks the scummiest from my limited reading so far Sig. I haven't looked at the current landscape to know who all is on the chopping block and whether or not I think they deserve to be there. Due to there being a thing called bussing, Golden voting you currently isn't reason enough for me to believe you innocent, over others who have more to work off of.

Thanks DDL. Just been accessing this thread through the day 1 start PM, so no wonder I missed it.

sig wrote:Like for real Golden voters it is a waste of a vote.

Its not a waste when I have no educated reason to vote you, LC or Nero. LC at least from my skim seemed to be a logically minded player who can contribute quite well. Voting to off him just due to your plea for survival isn't an appealing prospect.

Through page 27...I move so much slower here without multiquote and more direct search functions

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also I like how the votes are utterly and completely scattered.

Let's scatter them a little more.

Tranq

Not to say this is exactly an implication of DDL, I just found it amusingly noteworthy.

chaindeath wrote:Chaindeath walks into the forum after listing from afar, half torn between his loved ones and his need to participate. He is not entirely sure who is a good candidate to vote for, however he is sure that the voting for everyone strategy is not a good way to go. Based on his gut feeling, he respectfully votes for Long Con as the one who feels off. No hate, no animosity, just business babe

He was home with his family this weekend which is why he haven't posted, just trying to keep up on the posts quite hard when his family is being loving and fun and junk . He should be more active as time progresses provided that his schooling doesn't overwhelm and completely pull him under in a tide of work.

Sloonei wrote:Hey chaindeath, thanks for joining us. And also thanks in advance for sharing those reasons for why you voted Long Con.

chaindeath wrote:He is so good at typing.... He didn't do it properly and he offers his sincerest apologies. Long Con

This was a peculiar interaction to me. Going with a straight gut vote after saying hes not sure whose a good candidate to vote for, Sloonei thanking chaindeath in advance for sharing the reasons for his LC vote, then CD making a strangle worded post because he didn't bold+underline LC's name. I understand that its considered proper to announce who you are voting for but the poll is whats official and his previous post made it clear LC was his vote even if he didn't format it the standard way.

Mongoose wrote:I'm a little confused that I'm being seen already as an inactive player because I feel like I've posted several times, and not just fluff. This isn't being defensive by the way, I'm just trying to talk out loud in case it helps a bit. I just don't have the time anymore to check in multiple times a day, especially when I absolutely cannot check in on the site during work hours (vaguely between 8am and 8pm -- I'm an attorney and I've got a pretty big caseload, which honestly is the only reason I don't play anymore).

THat said, I certainly don't take offense or it to heart that someone votes me on day 1 for not making dozens of posts. Just letting y'all know that I'm doing the best I can, and warning you it's not likely going to get much better (in terms of quantity -- I'll always aim for quality).

I read through the arguments to and for finding the traitors, which I found pretty intriguing at first. But then I was glad that discussion more or less ceased. Basically the way I feel about Jurassic World. I'm going to continue to catch up in the limited time I can (I've got company coming tonight and staying most of the week), so there's a bit of a time pressure situation.


linki x 15 (seriously)

I tried to find these non-fluff posts of Mongoose and they amount to a post commenting on the traitor issue(without any significant changes from what she posted about it above):

Mongoose wrote:

Scotty wrote:I will bet my [hopefully] unborn child that the 30 person coordinated vote will not work out. There will be too many no-shows. There always is in these games.

I hate ploys like that because there's always one alpaca that won't fall in line. Great in theory though. I feel like it's worked before though. A la Minimalism Mafia. Who could forget that great hit from 2014?

I'll think about this traitor activation issue. Any more opinions on downsides?

It's good to be back around all y'all.

along with thinking it transcendent that there was talk of lynching inactives and that she enjoys the tactic(she makes sure to include a preemptive defense on the possibility of more concrete lynch cases):

Mongoose wrote:

agleaminranks wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I'm taking my vote off Long Con. I wouldn't want anyone to think that I suspect him.

agleaminranks, come say something.

Hiii, I'm trying to catch up on the posts so far. I didn't get a chance to read through it yet because I just started my new job today as an afterschool math and physics tutor. I'll have something solid to go on in the next few hours hopefully~

Oh wow, imagine seeing you in these parts!


In other news, I think it's transcendent that we are having the Voting a Non-Participant discussion again, and on my first day back!. Historically, I am very fond of this tactic (that is, in the absence of anything meatier -we've certainly had meat in the room on day 1, so to speak).

Mongoose wrote:Before I vote ika for the odd post on Silverwolf, is that something we do around here now? Vote for people to get their attention?

Sloonei - no worries, I saw -- I always try to respond directly to anyone who's made a comment or query my way. Thanks to the ole handy Ctrl+F

This post stands out to me since it seems like Mongoose is trying to confirm whether or not behavior she is stating is odd is scummy in the eyes of others.


Draconus

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Somehow I managed to skip a large post by Soneji.

He makes a good point on Mongoose, though in the last quote, I have to say the fact she is asking about how mafia is played here is because she is back after a long hiatus, during which a lot of people from different communities came here and change the usual playstyle.

I understood the context of how she was trying to come across(as naive of possible new habits), its just that the context in which the question was asked(as a prerequisite to a stated desire to vote lynch Ika) is rather scummy. If the question about voting people to get their attention came prior to a vote on Ika/stated desire to vote Ika, I likely wouldn't find the behavior suspicious. Lack of confidence in your own reads is also more indicative of scum, who don't want to be seen as going after the wrong people or having weak reasoning. If Ika's behavior was in any way normal in the community as it is now, people wouldn't have been suspecting him for it as much as they did D1, which should have clued Mongoose in. Even so, she felt the need to be sure that her reasoning was sound in the eyes of others.

Turnip Head wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Somehow I managed to skip a large post by Soneji.

He makes a good point on Mongoose, though in the last quote, I have to say the fact she is asking about how mafia is played here is because she is back after a long hiatus, during which a lot of people from different communities came here and change the usual playstyle.

See I didn't feel great about that Soneji post. And looking at his 7 post ISO he seems to pick a different target every day. Odd.

What is odd about it? On day one I voted DDL as up to where I was his distracting talk of traitors looked to be the best lead. Day 2 I read the current discussion while skimming back as best I could in the time I had and I agreed with the case on Ika most. While I could have continued with that, its really a shell of how I best operate, reading thoroughly from beginning to end and pointing out posts of note. Without prior behavior to compare to, making proper reads on people, especially ones I don't know like I do on NF, can be rather difficult. I have always been a lone wolf operator, making my own cases and pushing my own leads above all else.

I went with Golden yesterday because up until the point I had read he was the most suspicious, with DDL in second and Ika on a backburner after the Fuzz lynch. Mongoose is the most scummy from my current reading, with DDL looking less scummy than he did prior.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Soneji, who else do you think is bad besides Draconus? Based only on what you've read?

Sloonei, Enrique, maybe chaindeath. Golden and Ika are lowkey suspects due to how the Fuzz lynch went down.

I would say in current terms of whose on the chopping block, I don't feel that Sig and Gleam are scummy from where I read. Sig seemed genuine with his desire to escape getting Cubey'd and Gleam just appears to really want a no lynch option added.

Golden wrote:

Soneji wrote:I went with Golden yesterday because up until the point I had read he was the most suspicious, with DDL in second and Ika on a backburner after the Fuzz lynch. Mongoose is the most scummy from my current reading, with DDL looking less scummy than he did prior.

You've called me scummy in three posts, but you've never really explained why. Has your view on me changed, if so why?

It was based on me finding fault with your meta read on Diiny. Viewing your voting records and looking into your part on the Fuzz lynch has placed you on the backburner with Ika.

Golden wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Golden wrote:

Soneji wrote:I went with Golden yesterday because up until the point I had read he was the most suspicious, with DDL in second and Ika on a backburner after the Fuzz lynch. Mongoose is the most scummy from my current reading, with DDL looking less scummy than he did prior.

You've called me scummy in three posts, but you've never really explained why. Has your view on me changed, if so why?

It was based on me finding fault with your meta read on Diiny. Viewing your voting records and looking into your part on the Fuzz lynch has placed you on the backburner with Ika.

What fault did you find in my meta read on diiny? Did you note that by the end of that day (and it was day one) I was defending him and voted for Wilgy instead of him even though Diiny would have been the better vote to save myself? Have you been on a baddie team with Diiny in which you crafted a win together as I have?

The fault I found is using meta reasons to suspect someone that comes off as a super townie based off of them having acted as a super townie before as scum is fairly weak reasoning on a D1. Those kind of suspicions are best held close to the vest until you can spot them making a mistake. It came off as opportunistic to off a strong townie based on tinfoil. I have seen scum in multiple NF games use meta in the same way you did to justify their votes against strong players, that its either lynch them now or they'll never be caught.

My read there was based solely on where I had read up to. I didn't know how to access poll records at the time. Once I did know, it was seeing your vote for Wilgy+your Fuzz vote then looking into both a bit that put you off my current suspect list.

Through page 41

Mongoose wrote:OKay, so here's the deal. I don't feel comfortable randomly voting. Thank you for your comments, and I agree that an ika vote today is not the way to go -- I appreciate your candor. I'll be around a lot next weekend, and you'll get to see how talky I can be -- anyone remember the first year of TS when Sock and I would fill pages?

ANYWAY sorry I'm constant digressions.

Since I don't feel comfortable making a case on anyone or buying into the current ones (so I'm going to offer TurnipHead this since Vompatti or Llama or etc isn't around) -- TH - would you fancy a vote trade? I'm going to vote you for admittedly no discernible reason -- please feel free to return the favor!

Sorry crew, I've got to jet and I just Do NOT like to miss votes.

* votes TurnipHead *

So she has her Ika lynch fall through, doesn't want to vote randomly yet does the very definition of it for no apparent reason(not voting isn't against the rules). The only reason I could think of for anyone doing this is to not be seen as having not voted if someone goes vote tracking.

ika wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:

ika wrote:Ok im home i will be reading shorty.

Can someone tell me if we are allowed to talk game or not? im not used to being able to talk at night

The general rule here is that you can talk game at night. Unless the rules specify otherwise.

Sweet!

Im gonna try to do some isoing does anyone have anyone spcific thatthey want em to see

ISO me Ika.

mkay one min

This is posted and the next time Ika is on later that night he claims hes too drunk to do any reads. The next morning/afternoon, he says hes doing ISO's yet won't share them(yet in the post above it alludes to him actually posting what he finds suspicious). From my skim day 2 I had agreed with the Ika lynch but wasn't invested without reading full on with context. The ending of that day gave Ika some leeway but in my experience, knowledge slips do happen and what looks to be blatantly one by Ika about Sloonei should be acted on.

Ika

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I love how some people who are basically claiming Team Sockface.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:The people who are happy with the lynch.

Associates those happy with the Diiny lynch as Team Sockface, rather then potential mafia

I just got out of an NF game and one thing I have found that has a really high scumrate is jumping on those who vote No Lynch. While gleam didn't have that as an option here, its basically what he was advocating. I don't think he was doing a good job with his civilian lives matter activism but I found his posts genuine if misguided. DDL above all others jumped on that behavior.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:BLACK ROCK

TURNIP HEAD

BOOMSLANG

Town

Town

Cop

Prisoner 509378 wrote:THELLAMA73

CHAINDEATH

SONEJI

Town

Cop

Town

Prisoner 509378 wrote:DRACONUS

SLOONEI

EPIGNOSIS

Cop

Town

Town

Prisoner 509378 wrote:SILVERWOLF

IKA

SIG

Town

Cop

Town

Prisoner 509378 wrote:SERGE

NEROLUNAR

INDIGLO

Cop

Cop

Town

Prisoner 509378 wrote:S~V~S

PRISONER 509378

QUIN

SCOTTY

Town

Town

Town

Town

Silverwolf wrote:

Soneji wrote:A lot of posts devoted to talking about a mechanic that only matters to endgame numbers for the mafia(with a chance to cancel out naturally), that only could slightly assist the cops in finding the Dons, who to our knowledge have no means of harming them. The question now is to look towards Wilgy who started it or DDL who went full on with it, claimed it made Wilgy likely town and took way too long to acknowledge it as a distraction to actual scumhunting.

Dragon D Luffy

I decided to re-ISO Soneji cuz I couldn't figure out why I thought he was scummy and this is the only thing I could find. All game Soneji has been voting ika or Draconus. Suddenly, jumps on Dragon here with a reasoning that applies to a lot of people-I mean, a lot of people were discussing the traitor mechanic early game. Why jump on Dragon for it? Is it because so many other were and it's easy to sheep and get a mislynch off?

I'm not sure what kind of twist you're going for. There is no suddenly for this to apply to, it was my first post in the game, somewhat early on day 1. I explained in the very post you are quoting why I chose DDL over others, it was him and Wilgy that really spearheaded that line of discussion. His call on Wilgy likely being town was potential buddying. At the time, there really wasn't much else to go off of since the traitor talk had dominated so much early discussion.

I never sheep Silverwolf. My vote may be on the same player as others, my reasons my even by fairly similar to theirs but they are always my own. My username on the other site I play mafia is WolfPrinceKiba, lone wolf of NF. I despise sheeple.

Somethings been rather bothering me about the Ika slip and I think I figured out what it was. It really doesn't read like a slip. When I've encountered slips, they're based in role speculation that goes beyond a townies ability to guess specific workings of a role/ability or they manifest based on frustration/anger/demoralization from mafia actions failing or them getting cornered in-thread. In a recent game on NF, we caught someone on a knowledge slip based on his talk of a mafia multi-kill gone wrong(only killed one player when it had the potential to kill three), with his frustration coming out in the form of suggesting specific mechanics of the ability that had no firm basis just from the way it happened in the write-up.

I've never seen someone slip by straight up saying that the target of a failed mafia kill(arrest) was a specific player, not without them being able to claim tracker/watcher.(rarely even then). If it wasn't a slip though it was intentional, probably in the hopes that someone else could off Sloonei. If Ika flips scum, it would basically confirm Sloonei town. There is a mountain of evidence on Ika, we just need to finally push this lynch through.

Ika

Pages 41-89. Its relieving that there were just some pages I could skip as it was just Ika and SW back and forth...

Serge wrote:Hello everyone, sorry for missing out on the last day. I've read up until page 15, hopefully I'll catch up tomorrow.

I'm quite surprised at the number of new players in this specific game. The thread is going so fast and references on other games flash by here and there. Let us be civil(no pun intended), it seems some sparks are flying.

Who/what is a linki? When I catch up hopefully I'll be able to form a clearer picture. If it doesn't come in that form, I'll make that investigation board instead. No matter what happens, I'll cast a vote this day phase.

Serge wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Serge wrote:Hello everyone, sorry for missing out on the last day. I've read up until page 15, hopefully I'll catch up tomorrow.

I'm quite surprised at the number of new players in this specific game. The thread is going so fast and references on other games flash by here and there. Let us be civil(no pun intended), it seems some sparks are flying.

Who/what is a linki? When I catch up hopefully I'll be able to form a clearer picture. If it doesn't come in that form, I'll make that investigation board instead. No matter what happens, I'll cast a vote this day phase.

Hello again Serge, "linki" refers to when a new post pops up during the time you are typing your own new post.

What would you say is your general strategy on Days 1 & 2 of a Mafia game? Has this game been busier than what you are accustomed to?

Hullo Sloonei, I have just arrived at your post. Thanks to you and that other person that explained linki.

I don't like 0s and 1s as they usually revolve around random guessing and nitpicking the tiniest bits of text that may be construed as scummy. An example would be llama saying that Luffy complaining that the game is hard for cops is scummy is an example.

For Day 2, I generally put who got lynched and nightkilled front and center, using the posts from the previous day to try and find any links as to how both these things transpire.

I'm going to resume reading now, see you when I catch up.

These promises of activity, especially regarding whatever he meant by an investigation board and looking at arrests/lynches as his main basis for scumhunting, never came to fruition. He also had a slight fixation with being sure to vote. After the post above his next posts about three and a half hours later are these:

Serge wrote:Can someone tell me if the clock on the front page is the same time everyone is seeing?

Serge wrote:@thellama73, is your vote for Luffy serious? If so, why?

Serge wrote:Thanks! MP actually just told me that. It's really nifty and useful.

Then he ends day 2 voting Ika without any detailed reasoning:

Serge wrote:I like thellama73's in-depth post about why he thinks Luffy is a cop. I don't necessarily agree with it but that amount of perception doesn't reek of scum to me. If he held on to just the "this game is hard to win for cops" thing, I may have voted for him.

I think ika is acting like a very naughty deer caught between the headlights. I honestly don't remember the case against gleam anymore, and the one against Epignosis half-built on his meta, which I don't take stock on.

Um, someone tell me how to vote.

ika

Does that work?

The rest of his posts are just him defending himself a bit and mostly putting all attention on some of the motives around the day 2 CFD.

chaindeath wrote:Chaindeath has finished reading all of the posts to this point, in the stead of lunch might he add. He would like to acknowledge that he is flattered that thellama would not vote to lynch chaindeath. However, He wishes to let his suspicions be known of Matt and Silverwolf. Matt is acting oddly, and chaindeath is not put at ease with any of Matt's posts. Silverwolf seems fishy as well (odd since shes a wolf and all) he is not comfortable with the snap votes as soon as the polls opened.

Also Chaindeath would like to start a discussion about the hosts night powers. Perhaps the flower of the cosmos was able to redirect the night arrest away from the intended target, especially since in the day before she lost quite a bit from her family. He proposes that she is trying to keep her family at a size that would allow for a fighting chance. In the same mannor,he took the cup, that He thinks that the foot-covering used his power to radically harm the her family. He requests your thoughts.

So he says hes read up, appealing to sympathy maybe by mentioning he missed lunch to do so, yet he gives very vague reasoning for the two posters he finds suspect then suggests talking about host night powers, which outside of thinking the arrest was redirected to Tranq by Spacedaisy holds no relevance.

Enrique wrote:Voted RadicalFuzz. No reason.

Enrique wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Both the gleam and ika wagons are highly suspicious/dubious.

I agree with this but I also seem to have missed the Epignosis one being a thing at all.

Enrique wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I'm starting to feel better about an Epi vote than ika. Ika's frustration about all the votes he's getting seems genuine.

Did anyone say... three way tie?

Let's not. Ties are the devil, never mind three way.

Enrique wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I am starting to feel more inclined to vote for Epi, and if I reach a point where I'm confident enough to do that, I will do it.

Is that gonna happen on its own? Are you looking for encouragement?

also why is everyone voting fuzz now wtf i wasnt serious

Enrique votes Fuzz for "no reason", an easy thing to do since Fuzz gave an open invitation for undecided votes to be placed on him. He then engages in talk of ties until the Fuzz CFD picks up and flips out over it, talking about how he doesn't like the looks of it in several more posts after it. In the end he votes for Ika, whose wagon he had said earlier was highly suspicious. Its important to note that at this time he had already requested to be replaced and had talked as if he didn't have the time to be engaged with the game, yet when the Fuzz CFD started up he was in the thick of things trying to stop it.

Turnip Head wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:EVERYONE!!

Can we please start specifying the difference between NK and arrested? If they are different game states (which I think is the case), shit is going to get really confusing down the road if we keep using them interchangeably. Let's not make the game more difficult than needed :P

Well apparently arrests are lynches and they are also the cop version of NK's. Family kills are "hits" but we haven't seen one yet. This answers the question of why the win conditions were properly phrased, but it doesn't answer why we're spending our days trying to get people arrested. Arrests sound like the cop's domain and as I said earlier:



We should be out in the streets gettin shit done instead of helping the cops arrest people. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Sup with all them Gleam votes?

Turnip Head wrote:I don't like that Epignosis has 3 votes. I don't like it one bit

Sloonei is supatowning, which means he's either one of our most valuable assets or an undercover cop Only time will tell I suppose. He defended his Nerolunar read really well, but I don't like that he's criticizing Epignosis for not agreeing with his read, as if Nero's civvieness is obvious.

I don't really know who I want to vote for. I'm not a fan of any of the major wagons but don't have strong baddie reads on anyone.

Turnip Head wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Okay Fuzz... I'm doing it....

Turnip head spent the majority of day 2 dissuading people from all of the main lynch choices without providing any real better options. Joined the Fuzz lynch late, which looked to be a case of being cornered into it by his previous comments regarding not wanting to lynch Ika based on his playstyle making that not a really viable option(especially as Fuzz's flip-flop on Ika is the reason his wagon gained steam in the first place) and Fuzz having presented that easy way out at a time when a Fuzz lynch was unlikely.

I think that may be as far as I go trying to do full rereads on the thread. Even with all the dead players its taking too much time and the first two days have given me a strong enough stance on most that I can just go through post histories for anything going forward. Out of all those remaining, S~V~S and Black Rock had the least presence, barely remembered much of what they said. The former at least had a critical enough part in the Fuzz wagon gaining traction that I feel good about putting him in the town pile. Only posts I remember from Black Rock are her calling out TH and Epi for not being on their top game.

Chaindeath, Draconus and Enrique/Boomslang are the ones I feel the strongest about as scumreads. Next level would be Serge and TH. Then Epi and Nero. llama, BR and Scotty are rather null reads. Rest I'm pretty confident as being town.

Sloonei wrote:Hi Soneji. We seem to be in the process of deciding which one of Turnip Head and Boomslang we should lynch first. It's probably time we all started gravitating for a single one of them in the poll. Who do you think it should be?

I think there is less margin for error with Boomslang. There is nothing about Enrique's posts that even come close to looking like town and Boomslang has been a non-entity.

Sloonei wrote:Why is TH in your second tier of suspects and not your first?

For the same reason I'm voting Boomslang over TH really. I haven't seen anything I can view as townlike behavior from Draconus, Boomslang and Chaindeath while I have a bit of reason to doubt my read on TH, which has its main basis in his reaction to the lynch options on day 2. He did in the end vote for Fuzz and if scum, had the time to set up the potential to vote for someone else if the need arise. Then there is the possibility of Ika as the seemer, which muddies the water a bit more.

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Why is TH in your second tier of suspects and not your first?

For the same reason I'm voting Boomslang over TH really. I haven't seen anything I can view as townlike behavior from Draconus, Boomslang and Chaindeath while I have a bit of reason to doubt my read on TH, which has its main basis in his reaction to the lynch options on day 2. He did in the end vote for Fuzz and if scum, had the time to set up the potential to vote for someone else if the need arise. Then there is the possibility of Ika as the seemer, which muddies the water a bit more.

What about the thought of DDL as the seemer?
The one thing about TH that makes him a more appealing lynch today is that the case on him is the most substantial one that there is in this game. We all seem confident enough with Boomslang, but a large part of thay is his inactivity. Turnip Head has provided lots of content to analyze, and the results have come back mostly scummy. That's the way I see it, at least. Others do not need to agree.

I will need to review TH's full post history more to say whether I'd agree that he has an overall large amount of scummy content, after I get some sleep. What I have seen from TH isn't as standout scummy as Enrique's posts though and my suspicion there isn't based on his replacements inactivity. While I have sympathy for those replacing very likely mafia like Enrique, the evidence against the former owner of their role is too much to let fly.

Is there a way to be directed to the post people are quoting on this site? On NF, there is a little arrow we can press on directly quoted posts to be sent straight to them. It really helps in terms of context. On the surface Epi's case against sig looks bad and sig has probably the worst look based off solely where his votes have been placed. Looking at context for both his Ika and gleam votes, I don't see anything really worrying though. The quote Epi is using of sig saying he doesn't like the Ika/gleam wagons is from day 1, the votes from sig on them are from days 2 and 4 respectively. Silver's defense of Ika day 2, specifically Silver saying she'd be demoralized if Ika was lynched, is what prompted sig to be more suspicious of Ika. He also thought that the CFD on Fuzz was an attempt to save a scummate and the Ika lynch was the only one of the original three(Epi/gleam being the other two) with enough steam left for sig to jump on to oppose this attempted save. I won't hold it too much against sig that he opposed the CFD, several confirmed townies did as well and the reasoning against CFD's is valid, even if it worked out in our favor. sig's change of mind on gleam also had progression to it, starting with him liking MetalMarsh's ISO on gleam and then gleam from what he said slipping under the radar post d1.

I don't see anything really indicative of malicious intent with sig's actions. The Prisoner's argument against Epi is much more indicative of someone whose trying to manipulate things to a specific end.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Hey Soneji, could you please be a bit more specific about my case against Epignosis -- what about it did you find agreeable? I just need to assess your mindset.

That Epi makes himself out as a big shot yet avoids any matters where he can show his superior knowledge as well as his tendency to avoid direct accusations. That post he made in regards to Enrique about liking it when he can just vote without noticing it threw up some red flags during one of my full read throughs, as has his shifty behavior on tight lynches.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Hey Soneji, could you please be a bit more specific about my case against Epignosis -- what about it did you find agreeable? I just need to assess your mindset.

That Epi makes himself out as a big shot yet avoids any matters where he can show his superior knowledge as well as his tendency to avoid direct accusations. That post he made in regards to Enrique about liking it when he can just vote without noticing it threw up some red flags during one of my full read throughs, as has his shifty behavior on tight lynches.

Okay, that is a post I referenced, though I made no comment about his stated preference for not clearly stating his votes in the thread. You were highly specific in the context you lent to your defense of sig above, but your attack on Epignosis lacks the same context. Why was that a red flag for you, and what shifty behavior are you referring to specifically in tight lynches? You seem to have a very keen understanding of this game thread for someone with less than 30 posts; you're paying close attention to small details. This might sound odd coming from me after my own case against Epignosis, but, well...

I am not sure what makes you think I have a keen understanding of the game thread. My defense of sig? That is a simple matter of looking through his post history days 1-4 and reading those where he mentions gleam and Ika, to see if Epi's suspicions held water. I have a very keen understanding of the game of mafia as a whole, I'm a top 5 best player on my main mafia site, so I can notice the small details.

Unlike with sig, I didn't read through Epi's post history as I ran out of time before work. I am going off of general memory here for him. Your argument didn't look in any way to take his posts out of context, based on my memory of when they were made, which for some of them is fuzzy. The Enrique one I had quoted with a comment several days ago and I have read the majority of d2, so his dodging of the Fuzz/Ika situation has certainly not been misconstrued. He had more than enough time to get a grasp on the situation. He had everything prior to those supposed seven pages read, enough to have the ability to make a judgement call. Only mafia generally have reason to want to avoid looking bad by choosing the wrong person to vote. The Enrique thing was a red flag since to my remembrance he made that post after being called out for not announcing his Enrique vote in the poll in the game thread. It comes off as deflection.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Soneji wrote:I am not sure what makes you think I have a keen understanding of the game thread. My defense of sig? That is a simple matter of looking through his post history days 1-4 and reading those where he mentions gleam and Ika, to see if Epi's suspicions held water. I have a very keen understanding of the game of mafia as a whole, I'm a top 5 best player on my main mafia site, so I can notice the small details.

There have been numerous cases and suspicions fielded in recent memory. What was it about my case against Epignosis and his case against sig that inspired you to specifically join the thread and add commentary? Your content is limited because you've not done that for every discussion.

Soneji wrote:Your argument didn't look in any way to take his posts out of context, based on my memory of when they were made, which for some of them is fuzzy.

You see, that's the fun part. Because my case against Epignosis was straight up fake. I was actually laughing as I compiled it, making some silly points that I'd never make in a sincere case.

Soneji wrote:The Enrique one I had quoted with a comment several days ago and I have read the majority of d2, so his dodging of the Fuzz/Ika situation has certainly not been misconstrued. He had more than enough time to get a grasp on the situation. He had everything prior to those supposed seven pages read, enough to have the ability to make a judgement call. Only mafia generally have reason to want to avoid looking bad by choosing the wrong person to vote. The Enrique thing was a red flag since to my remembrance he made that post after being called out for not announcing his Enrique vote in the poll in the game thread. It comes off as deflection.

I agree that Epi's vote for Zebra during the CFD was poor, and that alone is the best case against him.

I post whatever catches my fancy that I think will benefit town, within the time I find for this game. I was focused on doing a fairly thorough read of the entire thread for most of this game, though I gave that up as a lost cause once I managed to read up until the end of d2. I am trying now to focus on the present and the arguments being brung up against people now, using post history to make my own judgement on the findings. When I have the chance I will do a few ISO's of my own.

I have read sig as town almost any time I've read his posts during my read through or skim of current posts. That Epi is trying to bring him back to the forefront now caught my interest, so I decided to look into the matter, especially as Epi's been a fringe suspect for me most of the game.

If you found the points you brought up against Epi silly, I would like to know what qualifies as scummy in your book. The points you brought up against Epi were:

1. That he was avoiding participating in the current discussion by acting as if he wasn't up to date with the thread. Something he did while also presenting himself as being able to solve the current dilemma.

2. That he would subtly throw suspicion on players without directly accusing them, like ge did with gleam in the post you quoted.

3. Using meta reasons to defend Mongoose while implying that Sloonei is scum for not dismissing his read "as that is just Mongoose's meta".

4. Devolving the thread into filler talk about basketball.

5. Avoiding the d2 lynch despite acting as if he would break the tie.


All of these are valid scumtells and Epi does display them in the posts you brought up and elsewhere. I am going to take your assertion as low level bait, so I can maintain some illusion that towns current leader knows what hes talking about.

Epignosis wrote:

Soneji wrote:If you found the points you brought up against Epi silly, I would like to know what qualifies as scummy in your book.

If I didn't have to go watch two hours of Gotham, I would have fun with you. Lucky for you, I have to go watch two hours of Gotham.

As expected, dodging any kind of confrontation with an excuse while acting as if you would be a shining beacon of logic if only you had the time ti participate.

Its not really feasible at the moment for me to be able to post all I need to fully make my points, while on my phone typing parts in between customers. I'll get back to you once I am at home.

Are you wanting specific posts that gave me town vibes or something Quinn? I haven't paid particular attention to your posts but the general feeling I got when reading the ones I did was that your assessments were logical and genuine. I am not one to do any kind on detailed town read, I just go by gut. I have never been pinged by a post I have read by you.

If 5:

Chaindeath
Elochin
Dom
Epi
Nero

If 4: Remove Nero/whichever of Dom/Elo replaced Serge. Will need to do more research.

S~V~S wrote:A quick question for Nero, Quin, Scotty, Serge, sig & Soneji~

What do you all think of Epignosis?

If I hadn't already made this clear, I think hes mafia.

S~V~S wrote:I find it interesting that sig & especially Soneji managed to pop in to say they thought Epi was bad, but neither stayed around to answer the same question about Scotty. Especially since I asked Soneji in linki.

I didn't see your message, just went and clicked submit again when it did the linki thing as you call it. Scotty is a total null read. He is just there for me, I can barely remember anything the guy has said this whole game. If hes mafia, hes done a great job blending.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Soneji wrote:1. That he was avoiding participating in the current discussion by acting as if he wasn't up to date with the thread. Something he did while also presenting himself as being able to solve the current dilemma.

Please show me a specific example of "something he did while also presenting himself as being able to solve the current dilemma". I can't make any use of these assertions thrown into your post without a reference to what you're talking about.

You provided an example yourself:

Epignosis wrote:I wish I understood what this plan was so I could go ahead and tell you all how foolish it is.

He said this in regards to the traitor discussion on D1. Acts as if he doesn't know what the plan was while also assuming that its foolish somehow, despite not knowing what the plan entailed.

He also implied that he had the ability to take apart my argument on him yet refrained from doing so.

Soneji wrote:2. That he would subtly throw suspicion on players without directly accusing them, like ge did with gleam in the post you quoted.

Are you referring to the post in which Epignosis voted for agleam? How is that subtle? He prodded a player who hadn't posted much to that point, and once he had some content to work with he moved away from that -- he even defended agleam when that bandwagon started to mount.

No I'm not referring to the post in which he prodded gleam and as it was a vote just to prod its irrelevant to him bringing up how fast gleam supposedly responded to his prod, then acting as if he wasn't implying anything by that. That was an indirect accusation.
Keep in mind that there was around half an hour between his prodding post and gleam's response, enough time to where it can't be considered someone just watching over the thread just to see if they're mentioned. This defending of gleam as you call it starts of with just saying he won't vote gleam as gleam gets lynched early too much:

Epignosis wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I'm sorry, your responses could be genuine but you are filling every box of my checklist.

- First you were not trying to hunt scum.
- Then people called you out and you literally accused all three people who were suspecting you. In other words, OMGUS.
- Then you say you are trying to protect civs when you had never posted a single civ read.
- Then you pull the "no lynch" theory out of nowhere. Which is a objectively bad theory because we can't win the game unless we try to lynch people.
- And now you are pigbacking on someone to validade your own points, when that someone doesn't actually have the same opinion as you. I've got lynched twice before as mafia for doing that, and lynched another mafioso for it. I think it's a good scumtell.

I refuse to vote for agleaminranks. Gleam gets lynched early all the time. I think the last time he told us to sit and spin or something.

The only other post he made regarding gleam d1 was speculating that if Wilgy was a cop, then gleam was likely a cop. This slight defense doesn't mean much. The general scumtell is that the mafia will cast suspicion on a player without directly accusing them, hoping some townie will take up that argument for them/that the point will stick in some minds. The smart mafia members might even defend the player they cast the initial suspicion on, if they have an angle for it, to further disassociate themselves from being a catalyst in the lynch of a town player. Epi's later defense of gleam consisted of solely asking why gleam was a suspect, making a joke about him passing wind. Later on he said he had no strong read on gleam and asked Golden to explain the case against gleam, with that being his last post on the matter the day gleam got lynched. Then in the night following gleam's lynch he heavily criticizes the basis for the gleam lynch despite not having argued against the actual points of the case, which could have saved gleam's life if he bothered to show people why they weren't valid. He yells at people to pay attention, when hes constantly not in the know as to why people are being suspected and doesn't argue against lynches he thinks are stupid.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I've made up my mind. As of now, it's DDL or sig for me tomorrow. You clowns go on and HURRRR CFD CFD tomorrow and I will vote the shit out of you too. Stop that shit. It's stupid. You get Mafia once every fifteen or twenty times doing it. You hit a civilian and it's "Aw, Barnacles" and when it actually happens, you pat yourselves on the back like you actually accomplished something. No more bullshit lynches.

I'm mostly talking to Golden here.

I'm mostly talking to you when I say I don't care what you think

But my vote tomorrow will almost certainly be sig or DDL too. Today it was almost certainly sig or gleam. If it had been sig yesterday it would have been gleam tomorrow. I don't really equate what happened at the end of that last day to what happened at the end of day 2 at all, they were completely different things. EoD4 was not a CFD.

And I don't agree with you. Day 2 was not "CFD," though some took it as such. Day 4 was. Gleam didn't do anything or say anything like Fuzz did. He got lynched for a theory based on votes. I would like less of that and more, you know, paying attention please.

Soneji wrote:3. Using meta reasons to defend Mongoose while implying that Sloonei is scum for not dismissing his read "as that is just Mongoose's meta".

It's not a great reason to pursue the lynch of Sloonei, but it's not a bad reason to toss out a flier vote in the game's earliest stages either. Had Epi actually made this into something meaningful and pursued it harder as a real case, I might agree with you. He didn't do that though, and for 95% of the game he has made no moves against Sloonei.

First impressions matter quite a lot in this game. Epi sent out the notion that this is how Mongoose is, so she shouldn't be voted for for the way she was acting. Its a roadblock to actual discussion, he did the same to me when I made a case on Mongoose:

Epignosis wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Somehow I managed to skip a large post by Soneji.

He makes a good point on Mongoose, though in the last quote, I have to say the fact she is asking about how mafia is played here is because she is back after a long hiatus, during which a lot of people from different communities came here and change the usual playstyle.

I understood the context of how she was trying to come across(as naive of possible new habits), its just that the context in which the question was asked(as a prerequisite to a stated desire to vote lynch Ika) is rather scummy. If the question about voting people to get their attention came prior to a vote on Ika/stated desire to vote Ika, I likely wouldn't find the behavior suspicious. Lack of confidence in your own reads is also more indicative of scum, who don't want to be seen as going after the wrong people or having weak reasoning. If Ika's behavior was in any way normal in the community as it is now, people wouldn't have been suspecting him for it as much as they did D1, which should have clued Mongoose in. Even so, she felt the need to be sure that her reasoning was sound in the eyes of others.

Have you ever met Mongoose before?

As well as to Silverwolf:

Epignosis wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:

Draconus wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Why are people voting for Draconusgoose?

Silverwolf wrote:Oh I switched my vote to Draconus

I expect sig to be the lynch today but I want to voice my opinions on others I'm suspecting and the fact that Draconus has done very little since replacing reminds me of how myself and others I've seen react to replacing into a scum slot. Be mostly inactive and then just post the bare minimum without really saying much.

I still suspect Soneji for posts that don't really say anything at all and because I think scum are laying low this game while town attacks each other, but I don't see the point of sitting on that vote by myself right now.

Draconus hasn't done much of anything since replacing. Soneji hasn't done anything all game. They both need to be pushed eventually if we are gonna win this. And if they continue, then lynched IMO.

Your pressure doesn't bother aapje at all. Besides, Alice just started playing.

moresque are your thoughts on The Cyber Controller viands votes? Thoughts overthwart thanks?

Like, WTF is this post? Bascially self votes and does no scumhunting or make any attempt at game solving. I mean, yes, he did replace but has had enough time to at least make a decent vote-yet doesn't.

Have you met Draconus before?

Soneji wrote:4. Devolving the thread into filler talk about basketball.

Yeah I'm not going to seriously call someone scummy because they talked about basketball. That was the most outwardly absurd accusation I hurled at him in that fake case.

Its really in the context of when he talked about basketball, watching a TV show, etc. that stands out. Like when he has zebra wanting him to share his suspicions:

Epignosis wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I've got some of these to go around.

Dish 'em out then, we need more then unspecified suspicions.

Golden asking him if he had anything else on his mind other than his tunnel vision on Nero:

Epignosis wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Epignosis wrote:New train of thought: Nerolunar should be lynched. Go.

You're awfully focused on him. Is there anything else on your mind?

Yes, but nothing game related. I'm hoping I win money tonight after a shitty weekend.

But hell yeah I'm awfully focused on him.

Nerolunar was in third place after sig and LC. LC was good. I suspect sig too, but I figure he's going to get enough today without my help. There's more than two cops, and I still think Nerolunar is one of them. I want to know why the thread went nuts for LC out of nowhere (in terms of a 48 hour day), but Nerolunar got no added votes.

Nah. I'm going to eat the delicious roast I made and then lose some more money on basketball.

TH prodding Epi for some more output in a joking fashion:

Epignosis wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Welcome to the Silverika show everybody.

I bought tickets to the Epignosis show but it must have been canceled, who do I contact for a refund?

My show got canceled because Stephen Curry is a bitch on his birthday.

Or like recently when he acted as if he could destroy my argument against him but instead hes going to go watch Gotham and I'm supposedly lucky for that.

Oh really? And this subtle discrediting comment has no value whatsoever toward the town cause. It can serve no purpose but to add doubt to my perspective of my own work and others' perspectives of my own work. I've never called myself "town's leader" or done anything to assume that role other than play as hard as I can, and the fact that you specifically felt the need to identify me in that regard with the implication that I don't know what I'm talking about is frankly the scummiest thing you've said.

Yes, the Epignosis case was fake. Yes, you took the bait hook, line, and sinker.

There should be doubt as to whether or not you are on the right track as there hasn't been a cop lynch since day 2, unless the seemer has been lynched. I generally categorize town players into three categories: shepherds, sheep and sheepdogs. The shepherds are the voices that are most trusted, they lead the majority of lynches. The sheep are your standard middling effort townfolk who will follow the shepherd that makes the most appealing case to them. The sheepdog are the main scumhunters, those tasked with finding the wolves(mafia), generally pushing every ones buttons to see whose snap has fangs. I'm a sheepdog, I've never been that great at getting people to follow my lynches despise my high success rate at finding mafia. You came into this thread acting like a shepherd and you seemed to know what you were doing but I have had my doubts lately if you have what it takes to see which group I separate the sheep into have such sharp teeth, such long claws.

You seem to disregard initial impressions based off of some things later on that might point elsewhere, disregarding whats important at the core. The kind of reads you hold close to the vest are those on players who if they know people are onto them will shape up their act. You bide your time with them so that they can continue to slip up enough to make a case on them that others will follow. Epi has consistently tunneled on a small handful of players(Nero, DDL, sig), dodges giving reads on players other then his select few and acts as if he doesn't know whats going on with the major events of the day. Only recently has he cleaned up his act somewhat.

Scotty wrote:

Soneji wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I find it interesting that sig & especially Soneji managed to pop in to say they thought Epi was bad, but neither stayed around to answer the same question about Scotty. Especially since I asked Soneji in linki.

I didn't see your message, just went and clicked submit again when it did the linki thing as you call it. Scotty is a total null read. He is just there for me, I can barely remember anything the guy has said this whole game. If hes mafia, hes done a great job blending.

Thanks man. Can't remember me? Might be Alzheimer's. May wanna check that out.

I can't remember you all game either. With your 37 posts.

Thats almost an average of 5 posts a day. I'm proud of myself

Hey Sloonei:

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

Quin wrote:I called Soneji out for town reading me with no concrete material and he said it was just because of an overall assessment of my posts. I asked him for specific examples but never got them. He'd probably place an orange on my rainbow list, it just seems like he wanted the argument to fade out and be forgotten. It shall not.

Unlike some others, I follow through with things I have said I will do. I spent all of my free time between my two jobs making that post on Epi. I have tomorrow off until night, I will address you then.

Quin wrote:I've been thinking about the capo/crew team more than anything else lately. Given their role, they should have a task to do today, yes? I'll be keeping an eye out and hopefully I can get some town reads from that hypothesis.

Did anything ever come of this Quin? Its fairly late in the game, so the more semi-confirmed town members we have the better at this point. Process of elimination our way to victory.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:
At day 1 I think we should be addressing even the minor concerns. I'm aware that in the long run the traitors are going to be triggered regardless, but even so, I think we should be trying to delay that risk for the safety of the dons.

I've got no problem with it being addressed, but I think the proposals being made in the thread were over-reactions to a very minor point and there is no need to continue discussing it beyond what has been said. So I should stop saying things about it now.
How's your first Big Game going so far?

I feel like this game could go on for weeks, I'm curious to see how the dynamic changes over such a long period.

How are things at this beginning period, though? Which players have caught your eye?

ika, for reasons I have previously stated.

Wilgy has also caught my eye for his abnormal posts. Someone called him out on it before, but the 'oink's he is shoving into his posts are just really...weird. My initial thoughts were that he is one of the capo/crew and his mission is to present himself as scum in his posts, but I need to dwell on that further. At this point it is a leaning town read, but I am also really confused by him.

If Wilgy had been a cop, I would very much have read this post as you being mafia. How exactly would "present yourself as scum" be defined with when the only outcomes are success and failure? With Wilgy being a civ, this comes off more as keeping an open mind and you stuck to looking for clues as to the capo/crew situation.

Quin wrote:

agleaminranks wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@Gleam

Did you actually post civ reads on anyone though? Other than me? Please show because I think I missed those.

I didn't. I don't have solid reads on people apart from how they normally act in other games.

I think Matt is being a bit more quiet than normal, I think I remember him being a little more pandering for discussion than usual. But I have no reason to suspect him as being bad.

Scott and Epignosis are both acting pretty typical, even if they're somewhat low posters for the game right now.

The only other people I have played games with before (Mongoose, llama, zebra) have all been pretty inactive in the game right now. I'm inclined to say civilian just because their contributions seem normal.

I think S~V~S has a false read on me but I don't have reason to suspect her as bad.

Sloonei wrote:

agleaminranks wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Agreeing with what you are saying doesn't equal reading you as a civ.

SVS and Sloonei pointed out something I hadn't yet noticed. I then read your posts and concluded that indeed, you were saying a lot without actually getting yourself involved in the actual game (hunting baddies).

When we're this early in the game and far more likely (statistically) to lynch a good guy, I'm more focused on minimizing civilian deaths than actively trying to suss out the police. That's just my strategy. You can agree with it or not, but that's what makes the most sense to me. Granted, once a day or two goes by and we have some patterns to examine, then the baddie hunt needs to become the main focus. If I'm still being noncommittal at that point, you can criticize me of not getting involved all you want. But I've certainly been participating in the discussion. Going all gung-ho and throwing accusations left and right isn't the only way to get involved.

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying you'd prefer not to lynch anyone today?

Ideally, I think it would be best if no one got lynched the first day.

Think of this mathematically. I'm of the firm opinion that no one has enough concrete evidence on anyone else to make more than, say, a 10 or 20% educated guess on alignment. We're close to lynching at random here. It's no different from a first day lynch. Statistically then we are more likely than not to lynch someone good. Then we wait for the results of the night actions to formulate more solid theories.

These are the two scenarios at this point:

1. The lynch vote ends up being civilian. The night phase happens, the Police Chief (unless they target the Don) is probably going to succeed in arresting someone. We're down two noble mafiosos/mafiosas.

2. The lynch vote ends up being police. Unless the Chief is lynched (a one in thirty chance), some mafia is probably going to be arrested. One baddie is down, we're down one good guy.

The first scenario is more likely to happen by a factor of 5. I agree that if a baddie is lynched this early, yes, it will go a long way towards helping the mafia teams in the long run. But. You risk civilian death as well. Some people might argue that it's worth the risk of killing a civvie if the chance of taking down even one baddie is there, I just don't agree with that strategy. Maybe it's a matter of personal taste to want to be more restrained. If we were able to somehow avoid lynching someone Day 1 then we would most likely be down one civvie but we also wouldn't be down two, probably. But that's not part of the rules, so I have to come up with my best educated guess.

I'd like to hug you. No lynches are fantastic.

I'm on page 12 right now and so far there's nothing that has convinced me to change my vote. We'll see how it goes. I think there's like, 30 minutes of day left so I'll be fast.

Maybe its my bias for being looked down upon strongly for advocating No Lynch in my early days of playing NF mafia but I've found that those who show themselves enthusiastically supporting no lynch are town. Its usually the ones that condemn the players who did it that are mafia.

Quin wrote:

Enrique wrote:Hey folks I'd like to remind you that there are six friggin cops so manipulation of tight lynches should be easy. I suggest y'all get your shit together and join me in voting Diiny because he's clearly the right choice

Or come to a consensus yourselves. It's been a way hectic past couple days for me and I'm not really following the game as well as I could be, and I can't say I have many reads besides being freaked out by Diiny's over-eagerness (supatownin?) and general vagueness to his actions.

jeez dudes the game just started why are you being so demanding already

btw wilgy's plan is terrible and the don would have to be a silly billy to go through with it

I hope I'm not alone in seeing this as though it was written extremely half-assed. He's pushing for a Diiny vote, yet advocating that we should be lynching whoever we want to lynch. On top of that, he immediately goes to present some weak justification to go with his hardcore push. It just seems extremely contradictory. He says that he's 'the right choice' but he's not said anything of value in the thread that might lead me to think that. Same with Wilgy's plan. There's absolutely nothing in the thread by him that would explain why he disagrees.

One of those rather sound logic posts I was referring to. Its unfortunate though that Enrique and his successor are the type of town who come off blatantly scummy, as the contradictions pointed out are spot on. His next two posts are also on pressuring Enrique with similarly valid points.

I generally liked that you put some genuine thought into your suspicion of Scotty based on the Tranq lynch, there is a clear progression of thought there that makes it seem unlikely for mafia to be trying to fake a case. That you didn't pursue it to a pointless end d1 is also a point in your favor.

On your hesitation on the Fuzz vote, I do think you had a point that his supposed contradiction was more a twist, in that he didn't want to discuss the actual situation that existed based on Ika/Silverwolf's posts regarding other and their thinking that they were being "persecuted" for being new. That doesn't mean he didn't have any individual thoughts on either and wouldn't vote them. He flipped scum but that doesn't mean the reason the bandwagon was started was based on solid evidence, though others might have had more reasons on why they suspected Fuzz than just his Ika vote. You really were in the thick of things the majority of d1/d2, so your resistance to a lynch not based on the pressure you applied and reasoning that has had more discussion around it feels genuine.

You have a lot of posts and I don't feel its really necessary for me go through all of them. Reading your first eight pages worth on your post history has reconfirmed why my gut read of you was town. You have pressured anyone without pause while also not attempting to buddy anyone, despite the suspicion on you. You keep an open mind and are willing to change up where you apply pressure if your current avenue is yielding no results, while still keeping the suspicion on that player for a later time. You have a willingness to talk about game mechanics, though you generally explain your thought process in a way that comes off very organic.

I have been deciding between Epi and chaindeath. Sig's flip I would say has more firmly put me in the Epi camp, based on his constant tunneling of a player who to my understanding is lynched a lot as town for being unusual. Low hanging fruit is what we would call him on NF.

Epignosis

You misunderstood. My talk of keeping things close to the vest was based on you bringing up later posts by Epi to defend against his earlier reactions. I was stating that while later info shouldn't be discounted, posts should also be looked at in a vacuum.

Epi has only been a fringe suspect most of this game. I couldn't ignore his continued pursuit of sig though and earlier slight pings I had earlier on Epi drew me to finally look into his post history more.

Lets look at the numbers here. There are four cops to eight civs, if we assume that the seemer has been lynched. The cops will arrest at least one player tonight, potentially two. Lets assume the former, that puts us at four cops, seven civs. A mislynch next day phase will put as at best 4 vs 5 after the subsequent night phase. So at most, we can afford one mislynch if the cops don't get lucky with their 20% chance of lynching a second player.

The Scotty lynch was based on meta reasoning mainly, from how he acted in another game I wasn't in. I have had Epi try to shoot down my suspicion on Mongoose for meta reasons, SVS was saying Epi wouldn't tunnel sig if he was mafia due to meta reasons, etc...it seems this site has an over reliance on meta. Even the suspicion on me has never fully taken off as people are hesitant due to not knowing my meta. We need to stop thinking about meta and just judge the actions by themselves.

S~V~S wrote:Soneji, based on thread related reasons, who do you trust?

You: For your part in the Fuzz lynch, it didn't really gain strong steam till you jumped on it with your reasoning
Black Rock: Since you vouched for her
Turnip Head: The failed lynch implies hes a Don
Prisoner: Obvious reasons
Quin: Rather strong townread that I explained earlier

Leaving:

Dom
Elo
Epi
Chaindeath
Nerolunar
Sloonei

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:Lets look at the numbers here. There are four cops to eight civs, if we assume that the seemer has been lynched. The cops will arrest at least one player tonight, potentially two. Lets assume the former, that puts us at four cops, seven civs. A mislynch next day phase will put as at best 4 vs 5 after the subsequent night phase. So at most, we can afford one mislynch if the cops don't get lucky with their 20% chance of lynching a second player.

The Scotty lynch was based on meta reasoning mainly, from how he acted in another game I wasn't in. I have had Epi try to shoot down my suspicion on Mongoose for meta reasons, SVS was saying Epi wouldn't tunnel sig if he was mafia due to meta reasons, etc...it seems this site has an over reliance on meta. Even the suspicion on me has never fully taken off as people are hesitant due to not knowing my meta. We need to stop thinking about meta and just judge the actions by themselves.

What are some actions you judge to be suspicious?

Epi's avoidance of the Fuzz lynch and tunneling of sig all game. Mongoose's lack of contributions when she was in the game while posting in a way that made her seem contributive, with a weird focus on getting a vote in(wanted to do a vote trade with TH so as not to vote "randomly"). Chaindeath as a whole.

Ika was probably the seemer. There was that whole thing where he said an arrest failed on Sloonei. The guy was just extremely scummy besides. He did flip Stool Pigeon though, which if the Don was the role whose identity he knew, he may just have guessed that the failed arrest was on his Don(Sloonei in this case). Weird to out it like that but Ika didn't follow normal standard of play.

Either way, Sloonei can be removed from the pile.

You definitely had been tunneling on sig, unless your definition of the word is completely different.

As for my meta talk, that is kind of the point. I haven't really played much on this site, therefore I have no meta knowledge to cloud my judgement. I have meant to be more active in establishing myself here, as my participation in Flash and Pikmin was shameful, as were my earlier contributions here. I have a much better feel for this sites layout and style of play that has made me more comfortable and confident when posting here.

Epi seems to have a unique relation with certain words, cop-like even. I didn't avoid the gun-fight between Ika and Fuzz, this Zebra just came out of nowhere and I had to defend myself! I didn't relentlessly pursue this man who had barely any connection with the mafia just due to the numerous false allegations hes had in the past, he really looked dirty this time! I swear!

Epignosis

Epignosis wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:We should also be careful of bussing and new wagons popping up. There is probably going to be an attempted save at some point.

Read: We must regard any alternative lynches as save attempts because Epignosis is bad, and we must regard any additional votes on Epignosis as bussing because Epignosis is bad.

Way to think things through.



Nerolunar

Maybe you missed the word "careful" there. Looking out for those just joining your wagon without good reason to do so or counterwagons that don't have a strong basis, is not the same as regarding every alternative lynch as a save or votes on you as bussing. Twisting suggestions to the extreme to paint someone as scum is almost exclusively done by anti-town.