The Syndicate

Aw poop, gotta run. I should be back before the deadline. I honestly have no strong inclination to place any specific vote right now, so someone should go ahead and be scummy before I get back. Kay bye.

ika wrote:

S~V~S wrote:
Linki, I thought JJJ said that about playing longer than ika?

was it? i seem to be thinkging they are the same person right now....

ill let jjj answer rico question :P

Yeah I said it. It had no purpose except to poke you and invoke an impassioned (thus, readable) response, because I know you take pride in your Mafia experience. :P

S~V~S wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

G-Man wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

G-Man wrote:I just like to keep tabs on who suspects me.

Why is that?

Astute note-taking on suspicions can be helpful. I've called a few people out in games past for suspecting me early and then buddying up to me later or vice versa. They aren't always baddies but it's nice to call people out on BS from time to time.

Town read on G-Man.

Now see,I got the exact opposite from this. G Man wis not a punch puller, and these reads are ALL pulled punches. The more I ISO the pair, the more I put G-Man in front of Rico.

Why do you think this is town?

When G-Man provided his longer array of player notes that have drawn the ire of some (to include yourself, Silverwolf, and I believe Epignosis), I didn't feel it was a bad or good looking post. I actually asked him to share whatever notes he had logged and he complied, so I don't think there was a serious need for those notes to develop into conclusive reads rather than simply being notes. I asked him for something and he gave me that something.

The small piece I pulled from that larger post (the very first quote above) was of separate interest to me because it represented a curious mindset that I don't think I've had as a townie on many occasions if any. I asked him to expand, and he did: he said he was keeping tabs on those who suspected him now as a comparative tool for later interactions in case something changes (meaning his notes function quite like a reads spreadsheet that someone else might keep), and I thought that was a believable answer. Granted, with a second look I'd say it's probably not deserving of quite the frank "town read" I supplied before -- but I'm making a pointed effort to take as many stances as I can because I absolutely hate calling anyone a "neutral read".

To Silverwolf and S~V~S (and anyone else who suspects G-Man for his lengthy notes post):

Given the knowledge that I asked him to supply those notes, is your immediate reception of those notes affected in any way?

Matt wrote:3J - Why did you capitalize "PLAN" in one of your latest posts?

Oh, Matt.

It is very common for me to write out my posts with the same inflection they have inside my head (as if being read aloud). I capitalized "plan" because that's how I would say that sentence if I was speaking it. It's emphasized in a rather sarcastic way, because what I'm referring to wasn't really a "plan" (my handling of Zebra's accusation of Black Rock given the assumption that she would eventually respond to it). You may notice that I also frequently italicize single words in posts; it's for the same reason. I am applying added emphasis to words because they are emphasized in my mind's mouth.

I've tried to convey what I'm saying with a recording:

Clicky

The quality is crap because I don't have a working microphone right now.

S~V~S wrote:

sig wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

sig wrote:
linki: That is a good question LC regarding smiles, I've never thought about it for a meta thing. I guess I use them more as a civ? Also why would I indicate my own scummieness? That would be silly.

I was told once that pretty posts with lots of smileys and no typos were my big baddie tell. I cared about what I said more whne I was bad so I proofread it and dressed it up more.

I disagree with this, I think I pay equal attention to my posts (spelling wise) regardless of alignment, in fact I might be less likely to as mafia since I can meta defend myself. For smiles I like to use them and I think it is silly to try and put to much weight in whether it is a baddie tell or not.

Well, perhaps it is not the case in YOUR case, but it was in mine. She was right. So I stopped doing it. I was not saying it did apply to you, I was just saying that it is not unknown, since you said the concept was silly.

You might be surprised at how seemingly silly some tells can be.

I once got nailed for a baddie tell which revealed that I was much more likely to open a game with a joke as town than otherwise. /semi-OT

sig wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

sig wrote:You can town read me JJJ.

I'd love to, sig. Inspire me. Make me feel that special feeling. Do you think you've provided something that might warrant a town read? I understand you cannot be cleared obviously, but perhaps you've said something that you think should be to your credit?

Well Okay.


JJJ I love you, you're my everything, I just wanna run away and live with you forever in a golden palace. I'll buy you flowers and chocolate I'd walk a 1000 miles across the plains of Mordor without any shoes or socks just to see your smile one more time. I'd rip out someones heart and present it to you on a golden platter of ivory tusks.


How did I do? Did I give you that special feeling? Will you town read me now? If not I'm so pinning that murder where I ripped someone's heart out on you.

:P


linki:

:P

I award you no town read, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Epignosis wrote:I'll be back. I'm not going to go back and forth with two people who voted for me because I wasn't home on Mothers Day.

You're being accused of discrediting Silverwolf not merely because she voted for you, but because you're presenting her reason for voting for you as this. It's untrue. If she's wrong, then there's probably a way to convey that which doesn't reduce her accusations to just this blatant silliness. Essentially, you're suggesting that Silverwolf's vote was hardly motivated more by relevant thought than MM's was.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I'll be back. I'm not going to go back and forth with two people who voted for me because I wasn't home on Mothers Day.

You're being accused of discrediting Silverwolf not merely because she voted for you, but because you're presenting her reason for voting for you as this. It's untrue. If she's wrong, then there's probably a way to convey that which doesn't reduce her accusations to just this blatant silliness. Essentially, you're suggesting that Silverwolf's vote was hardly motivated more by relevant thought than MM's was.

If I was home and posting, would she have voted for me? I'm not saying she voted for me because I wasn't home. I'm saying she claims she's voting for me because I've not been active, which is true because I wasn't home.

The absence of activity isn't the full-stop of the accusation. You weren't entirely absent from the game, you did make at least one brief appearance. Apparently the content you provided then was not satisfactory to prevent this conversation being fielded right now. She's also drawing comparisons to the other games she has played with you (whether validly or not). You've begun to address the latter point by contesting the accuracy of her perceived metas, but as far as I can see the former remains untouched.

I am unconvinced of your guilt, but not to a degree that would inspire me to jump to your defense. I'm trying to facilitate better dialogue in this discussion so that people other than ika, Silverwolf, and Epignosis can have a better chance to draw something out of it.

Black Rock wrote:Except that is the complete meta of BR. If Zebra thinks my meta really is I talk more as civ and not as baddie then I call bull shit. Especially day one. I can off handly say Zebras meta is to call me bad when's shes bad, it's happened at least two or three games.

Could you provide a couple examples (just by off-hand memory) for each of the following:

1. Black Rock is town and starts a game quietly

2. Zebra is a baddie and accuses Black Rock of being a baddie

ika wrote:

Black Rock wrote:
I was just trying to help with another perspective from someone who has played with him longer.

golden said the same thing about MP in champ game calling him town. MP was scum

I think this is a valid point, because there is a growing list of examples of "I've known this player for years and trust my ability to read him/her" proving disastrously wrong in recent memory. If I limit it just to The Syndicate:

Talking Heads: Non-Syndicate regulars are heavily suspicious of Long Con. Syndicate regulars defend Long Con because they know him better. Long Con is mafia.
Talking Heads: Syndicate regulars are heavily suspicious of MacDougall. Non-Syndicate regulars defend MacDougall because they know him better. MacDougall is mafia.
Turf Wars: Newer Syndicateer is heavily suspicious of Epignosis. Syndicate regulars defend Epignosis because they know him better. Epignosis is mafia.
Scrimmage: Newer Syndicateer and visiting players are heavily suspicious of MovingPictures07. Syndicate regulars defend MovingPictures07 because they know him better. MovingPictures07 is mafia.

We need to learn from this trend.

As a part of my Death to Null Reads Forever initiative, I think I'll provide some gun to head reads on every player. Obviously this early it'd all be pure gut and perhaps even useless, but it might serve as a springboard for me. I am saying this pre-emptively in case anyone would like to join me. I am not suggesting we go through the whole PROCESS (hi Matt) like usual though, just throw up a full player list and give it a go.

Gun to head reads.

a2thezebra - human
Bea - human
Black Rock - human
DFaraday - toaster
DrumBeats - human
Epignosis - toaster
Glorfindel - human
G-Man - human
ika - human
inawordyes - toaster
Indiglo - toaster
JaggedJimmyJay - top bloke, good egg
juliets - human
Long Con - human
LoRab - human
Marmot - human
Matt - human
Nerolunar - human
nutella - toaster
ObscureAllure - human
Polo - human
Ricochet - human
S~V~S - human
Scotty - human
sig - human
Silverwolf - human
SokothQultuq - human
Spacedaisy - toaster
Vompatti - toaster

indiglo wrote:I had forgotten that. Yes, that may affect my immediate knee-jerk reaction to that particular post. Here is what I still find interesting about that back-and-forth after re-reading it.

You asked him:

If you're willing to share those notes, assuming they're about reads alone, then that'd be swell. It'd be something substantive to discuss instead of whatever we've had for the last 600 posts.

My understanding of this, is that you (JJJ) were asking GMan for reads on other players. Is that correct? If that is what you were asking for, do you feel like you got that from his post?

Good eye. For the sake of full context, when I said "assuming they're about reads alone", my intent was for him to not reveal any notes he might have logged about roles if they'd somehow already been possible.

I don't feel like I got reads from G-Man. I honestly don't suspect him though. He mentioned his note-taking, I asked him to share, and he did. I don't think his tone is at all sinister either.

ika wrote:

indiglo wrote:

ika wrote:im gonna get a soda im gonna be poping back in and out

Due to history, I read this as "pooping back in and out".

remind me to tell you guys when i poop form now now in this game :P

If you establish a consistent schedule, I'll try to align my meals so that you and I may poop together.

I would absolutely loathe mislynching Epignosis on Day 1. I have always said that in all circumstances the most suspicious player should be lynched regardless of who or when. So with this stated:

Epignosis, if you're town then I don't think it's terribly likely you're going to change the mind of either Silverwolf or ika. To continue discussing it with them would be fruitless and perhaps even make it worse. So it'd probably be better both for your faction and for yourself if you'd drop that discussion and focus solely on your own suspicions and other reads. You've proven repeatedly to have good instincts and to be a valuable component of any civilian team, and I don't want to see that wasted.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

ika wrote:

Black Rock wrote:
I was just trying to help with another perspective from someone who has played with him longer.

golden said the same thing about MP in champ game calling him town. MP was scum

I think this is a valid point, because there is a growing list of examples of "I've known this player for years and trust my ability to read him/her" proving disastrously wrong in recent memory. If I limit it just to The Syndicate:

1. Talking Heads: Non-Syndicate regulars are heavily suspicious of Long Con. Syndicate regulars defend Long Con because they know him better. Long Con is mafia.
2. Talking Heads: Syndicate regulars are heavily suspicious of MacDougall. Non-Syndicate regulars defend MacDougall because they know him better. MacDougall is mafia.
3. Turf Wars: Newer Syndicateer is heavily suspicious of Epignosis. Syndicate regulars defend Epignosis because they know him better. Epignosis is mafia.
4. Scrimmage: Newer Syndicateer and visiting players are heavily suspicious of MovingPictures07. Syndicate regulars defend MovingPictures07 because they know him better. MovingPictures07 is mafia.

We need to learn from this trend.

This is the most disingenuous thing I've ever seen from JaggedJimmyJay.

Who are these non-syndicate regulars and who are the syndicate regulars, and why you have lumped them all together?

I can expand on every example. I've added numbers to the quoted post for ease of explanation.

1. People who defended Long Con included but weren't limited to you and Golden. People who suspected Long Con included me and I believe Diiny among others.
2. People who defended MacDougall included me and motel room. People who suspected MacDougall included you and Matt among others.
3. Silverwolf suspected Epignosis. S~V~S and I both spent too much time defending you.
4. Silverwolf and Frog suspected MovingPictures07. Golden defended him.

In each case, the player with the most experience playing with the suspected player was the one who was wrong.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I would absolutely loathe mislynching Epignosis on Day 1. I have always said that in all circumstances the most suspicious player should be lynched regardless of who or when. So with this stated:

Epignosis, if you're town then I don't think it's terribly likely you're going to change the mind of either Silverwolf or ika. To continue discussing it with them would be fruitless and perhaps even make it worse. So it'd probably be better both for your faction and for yourself if you'd drop that discussion and focus solely on your own suspicions and other reads. You've proven repeatedly to have good instincts and to be a valuable component of any civilian team, and I don't want to see that wasted.

Changing their mind isn't my objective. They've already voted, and votes are not changeable.

Do you think a civilian Silverwolf would have waited for me to post? She voted for me way early in the day (judging by the fact that she was here a little while ago). Do you think a Sivilianwolf would follow MM's vote without questioning him about it instead of expecting me to do so?

That's the chief reason why I think Silverwolf is bad at this juncture. Her inability to keep my activity levels straight and her reasoning for suspecting me in other games (two, mind you) are secondary, but there.

Do I think Silverwolf would genuinely suspect you for the reasons she has stated?

Yes.

Do I think Silverwolf voted well earlier than she needed to and could have given you more time to respond to her accusations before placing a binding vote (particularly given her FoS strategies stated earlier)?

Yes.

Do I think it's meaningful that her vote followed MM's dubious vote without concern for that situation?

Yes.

Silverwolf, the latter two points apply to you. Please answer to them.

Epignosis wrote:In each case, that's a small sample size, I would argue,

I wouldn't contest that. It is. It's a recent trend, its meaning can be debated.

Epignosis wrote:but assuming I'm cool with it: In your opinion, how does that apply to ika and Silverwolf right now? ika's immediate vote for me alongside Silverwolf (with no independent reason of his own) indicates that he believes she is good.

I don't share that opinion. I think a Sivilianwolf would have waited to hear from me before voting.

It might not be wholly applicable to this scenario. I brought it up because it was on my mind, and because the same notion has affected my play in this game already. Were it not for that trend I might have defended you in this situation simply for lack of confidence in reading you as a cylon, but I haven't allowed myself to do that. Instead I am trying to assess every player involved purely for their actual content at face value.

I've already asked Silverwolf about a few valid points you've made. We'll see.

sig wrote:Wait a minute I'm a TS regular and constantlysometimes read both Epi and LC right.
Just like Turf Wars were I knew Epi was bad (lets not discus anything else I did that game unless I'm using it to defend myself) :P
And I was right about LC like three times when he was mafia so far.

I don't like that post from you JJJ I don't like it at all.

I didn't say every meta read ever made is wrong. I am sure there are exceptions to every rule and to every trend. I've nailed meta reads before too. You're missing the point.

I can endorse or participate in an Epignosis lynch without an answer to these.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I CANNOT endorse or participate in an Epignosis lynch without an answer to these.

Fixed. Hate that typo.

sig wrote:It seems like your point is we should listen to SW/Ika on Epi since other newer members have been right about their alignment right?

I'd rather we not lynch Epi today, it would be better to lynch someone else imo. However, I won't actively fight agaisnt an Epi lynch.

My point is that we should collectively rethink our urge to give anyone a pass simply because they're behaving in a way that is typical of them cross-alignment. It's a blind spot. That doesn't mean we should lynch Epignosis or that I think people who have less meta knowledge are more likely to be correct about a read.

Silverwolf wrote:I voted Epi independently of MM's vote. I used my own reasoning.

MM's vote exists. What do you think of it?

Silverwolf wrote:I wasn't sure I would be around EoD or that Epi would and I didn't want to miss the vote. Epi was around some during this day phase and had plenty of opportunities to post more meaningful content when he was here. His posts underwhelmed me, then he was barely here. Then he discredits me when I suspect him but gives ika and MM a pass.

You voted for him before the potential discrediting took place. That's my point of interest. It appears you've been here this evening with plenty of time to contribute and even carry on a lengthy real-time debate with Epignosis himself. You've rarely struggled to be in a game when you need to be in a game in my limited experience playing with you. You didn't think there was enough chance of your time being open enough to even place your vote (which would take seconds) before a deadline that was still quite distant at the time?

Silverwolf wrote:I don't see anyone else putting their neck out to take a vote/stance on anyone. Don't you find that odd also? I do.

In this environment I wouldn't call it "odd", but I would call it frustrating. I would certainly like to see more people getting their hands dirty.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Just because it was a revenge vote then doesn't mean I don't feel good about it now.

Why do you feel good about it?

Silverwolf wrote:Hey, Here's an idea.

If you guys think I'm wrong on Epi then give some alternatives and vote them.

Doesn't seem too hard to me.

I might agree with you. I am not going to follow though without first assessing your own mindset.

Silverwolf wrote:linki-I have a life JJJ-I'm not going to tell you about my RL but I've been hit with a ton of shit lately-so no, I was not sure I'd be here. I don't care if you believe that or not tbh. I am getting quite tired of the interrogation.

I don't have an opinion on MM's vote or MM right now. Do you have an opinion you'd like to share?

Please don't tell me about your RL stuff. That's not what I'm after.

I don't care if you're getting quite tired of the interrogation. I interrogate.

I am not especially suspicious of MM.

Silverwolf wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Hey, Here's an idea.

If you guys think I'm wrong on Epi then give some alternatives and vote them.

Doesn't seem too hard to me.

I might agree with you. I am not going to follow though without first assessing your own mindset.

I've already explained my thought process. Numerous times in fact. I'm suddenly put on the defensive by you and Epi and I find that odd from someone who is townreading me and scumreading Epi per your GTH reads.

You're damned right you are. I put everyone on the defensive. That's my game.

I want to squeeze every possible piece of meaningful data out of Day 1 and right now my approach is to question Silverwolf.

Silverwolf wrote:Actually JJJ-I can tell you I don't like MM's vote on Epi for joke reasons in a game he should know the votes are not changeable.

If Epignosis is a cylon then I would be willing to entertain MM as a team mate. That's something for later though.

sig wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Actually JJJ-I can tell you I don't like MM's vote on Epi for joke reasons in a game he should know the votes are not changeable.

If Epignosis is a cylon then I would be willing to entertain MM as a team mate. That's something for later though.

Maybe you're a teammate of Epi setting up MM to be lynched tomorrow.

Go ahead and accuse me of that if Epi flips as a cylon. I don't care right now.

Silverwolf wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:linki-I have a life JJJ-I'm not going to tell you about my RL but I've been hit with a ton of shit lately-so no, I was not sure I'd be here. I don't care if you believe that or not tbh. I am getting quite tired of the interrogation.

I don't have an opinion on MM's vote or MM right now. Do you have an opinion you'd like to share?

Please don't tell me about your RL stuff. That's not what I'm after.

I don't care if you're getting quite tired of the interrogation. I interrogate.

I am not especially suspicious of MM.

You have barely said a word to anyone as far as interrogating them is concerned and suddenly you go after me. I already told you my reasoning over and over. I dislike repeating myself. It frustrates me. I know you are not after my RL but that is the reason I thought I might be away and even if I hadn't voted yet, Epi's defensive doesn't make me wish I hadn't voted for him.

In fact I'm willing to put myself out there and say I'm happy with my vote on Epi.

I have put other people in pressure scenarios. "Interrogation" is one way to do that among many.

I am doing it to you right now, because if I can solidify my town read on you beyond just a Day 1 gut read, then I think that would be a productive effort. I think you and I could work quite well together if we're town reading one another, and I want to inspire myself towards that situation. That requires your cooperation though even if I'm annoying.

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, I am back in San Antonio, but I still have not had time to read a single thing. And I want to spend the evening with my husband instead of reading a thousand posts. What is wrong with you people?! I randomized my vote between all those who already had votes and it came up Matt. Love you Matty, but I'm tossing my vote your way. Random.org has spoken!

Matt

I promise to start getting up to speed and play properly beginning tomorrow.

Just going to note that the probability of random.org landing your vote on a player who had already received a vote was 34%.

This is why non-changeable votes are so tough. We have a huge spread and no way of consolidating. I will likely place my vote on a lynch contender so that it isn't wasted. Ricochet, Matt, and Epignosis are the options right now.

indiglo wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, I am back in San Antonio, but I still have not had time to read a single thing. And I want to spend the evening with my husband instead of reading a thousand posts. What is wrong with you people?! I randomized my vote between all those who already had votes and it came up Matt. Love you Matty, but I'm tossing my vote your way. Random.org has spoken!

Matt

I promise to start getting up to speed and play properly beginning tomorrow.

Just going to note that the probability of random.org landing your vote on a player who had already received a vote was 34%.

To be fair, she did say she randomized between all those who already had votes.

lol oh.

100%, Daisy! Explain THAT!

sig wrote:What does scum!(name) mean? Why the exclamation point

It just represents the hypothetical. If I am talking about what scum!sig might do, it means I am purely talking about my perception of what sig would do in a scenario as scum. town!sig would be the reverse.

Silver, I'm very sorry and I wish you the best.

Let's please move all of this discussion to personal messages with Golden and/or Dom. It has no further place in this game thread.

So the leading wagons are Ricochet and Epignosis, two of the strongest townies on The Syndicate. So much pressure!

VOTE EPIGNOSIS

I think he'd be a better lynch than Ricochet, and it might just be for the best under the circumstances anyway. I really hate the way this EOD has worked out.

So say we all.

S~V~S wrote:How horrible

He wanted to die, and now he was rezzed? He is a rezzed baddie?

So say we all.

What makes you think he was rezzed as a baddie?

I think this one might be best left to people who are familiar with the show, because I have no clue.

ika wrote:indeglo, epi is scum no matter what angle you wan tto take its scum

Right now I envision Golden having a hearty chuckle.

Anyway, lynching Epignosis again might answer all these questions anyway.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Anyway, lynching Epignosis again might answer all these questions anyway.

Nice sentence, you boob.

I have a test in the morning (the stupid GRE) so I won't be here tonight to assist with the sector hunting. Good luck chums.

DrumBeats wrote:JJJ, thoughts? Are all cylons scum, or could some cylons be town? Also good luck on the GRE

I have no clue. I'd be surprised if this game is as straightforward as town versus scum though, so I'll keep an open mind. The game was even advertised as being outside-the-box. People who know the show best might be the most qualified to provide insight here.

I can envision this argument turning into one that devours Day 2 and wastes everyone's time.

If Epi is lynched again then there's a good chance some of these concerns will be answered. Until he is removed from the game this argument will persist, and the mere thought of that is already irking me.

Pretty sure I forgot So say we all too. Oops. Not going to shimmy it in there now, I just screwed up.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I can envision this argument turning into one that devours Day 2 and wastes everyone's time.

If Epi is lynched again then there's a good chance some of these concerns will be answered. Until he is removed from the game this argument will persist, and the mere thought of that is already irking me.

Pretty sure I forgot So say we all too. Oops. Not going to shimmy it in there now, I just screwed up.

You're stating I should be lynched again preemptively because of the discussion people are going to have about me.

Yes I am. I don't know whether it'd even benefit me or my faction to lynch you, but I absolutely can't stand massive arguments of game mechanics that absorb game threads and totally supplant investigative posts. Even when people try to do it, their efforts are drowned out -- and in this case it's even worse than usual when all I see is a bunch of caps lock and deliberate spamming. Kill me now.

It's a rare day when something annoys me so much in a game that my desire to see it go away trumps my desire to win, but we're here. If there's a solution that isn't lynching you, lemme have it. I'm all ears.

Epignosis wrote:I do believe you are bad.

ika wrote:

juliets wrote:So if all cylons are bad we are sitting here with 12 mafia, 16 civs, and 1 secret role. Does that seem reasonable?

and you thinkn 12 scums put together sounds reasonsable? its kinda clear they prob dont know each other offhand

You think 21 vs 8 is reasonable?

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I can envision this argument turning into one that devours Day 2 and wastes everyone's time.

If Epi is lynched again then there's a good chance some of these concerns will be answered. Until he is removed from the game this argument will persist, and the mere thought of that is already irking me.

Pretty sure I forgot So say we all too. Oops. Not going to shimmy it in there now, I just screwed up.

You're stating I should be lynched again preemptively because of the discussion people are going to have about me.

Yes I am. I don't know whether it'd even benefit me or my faction to lynch you, but I absolutely can't stand massive arguments of game mechanics that absorb game threads and totally supplant investigative posts. Even when people try to do it, their efforts are drowned out -- and in this case it's even worse than usual when all I see is a bunch of caps lock and deliberate spamming. Kill me now.

It's a rare day when something annoys me so much in a game that my desire to see it go away trumps my desire to win, but we're here. If there's a solution that isn't lynching you, lemme have it. I'm all ears.

Hmm. Interesting approach, but I do not believe that Epignosis will be the sole trigger of said absorbing game mechanic arguments. For one thing, they started already during the first Day phase (case in point Matt), to which Epig's flip was gasoline. So it might not go away just by removing him and the meaning of his status from the picture. If anything, I tend to believe the game will further blossom into the utterly complex design it's shaping up already to be.

Could be. The only reason I suspect lynching Epignosis again might prove meaningful is that killing him outright could produce a more conclusive alignment flip. That is probably not possible now though given that the resurrection ship thingy is still out there.

We don't have to lynch Epignosis. I'm venting annoyance more than anything (and Epignosis himself is not to blame for that, to be fair) and I am open to suggestions.

Hey gang. Sorry for being useless for the last 24 hours or so. I fried my brain on the GRE and just haven't wanted to deal with Mafia. Hopefully I'll be recharged tomorrow.

Epignosis wrote:I'd like to talk about 3J. He is laying traps rather than provoking honest discussion.

What traps have I laid, and how is this comment relevant to what you said otherwise in this post?

Epignosis wrote:His vote for me and the post before it leads me to believe that he wanted to escape the accusation that he was avoiding the wagons (a silly accusation, that, but one that has gained increasing currency these past several months). He allowed the votes of others to dictate where he voted, and I would like to explore a scenario that has heretofore passed without discussion: That JaggedJimmyJay cast a vote to save Ricochet.

When there are leading wagons, I tend to pick one of them. This is something I have said plenty of times in past games that you've played in. People can agree or disagree with the strategy, but it is definitely nothing new. I think avoiding the primary wagons is usually just a waste of a vote, because it ensures that one's vote will have no impact upon the outcome. As the day phase progressed towards its end, the top wagons emerging were you and Ricochet.

Epignosis wrote:Why was I a better lynch than Ricochet?

Did I save Ricochet? I guess you could say so, sure. I thought you were more suspicious than he was, and I think that ought to have been clear given the discussions that were fielded. I spent a lot of time talking to you and talking to Silverwolf for the sole purpose of taking a side in that argument, and I took hers. Ricochet wasn't someone I had much interest in lynching at all.

There was also the bit where you asked for votes to be spared the rest of this game (and I understood why). That made my choice pretty easy.