The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:My suspects right NOW:

FZ. still number 1

boo is number 2

Snowman is now number 3

(Russ, I don't think can be lynched so let's ignore him)

I will likely vote one of these. But I would like to hear from others, so I will bow out of the discussion unless you have anything to ask me directly.

What is it about these people that makes you think they have baddie motivations? I ask from the point of view that I put forth earlier, that the lack of baddie BTSC and team-knowledge changes how we can form suspicions as compared to a standard Mafia game. Are your suspicions coming from a 'standard' place? How have you changed the way you look for baddies in this very different game?

BTSC or not, guilty people are still guilty and that affects their mentalities. I look for discrepancies in tone and behavior- minor things that do or do not match the impressions I have of the individual.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I just have to say that this game has been so much freaking fun to host already, folks, so thanks for not only signing up, but for participating and making this a good time.

On that note, the lynch ends in less than 7.5 hours, so you better vote.

Modkill all the non-voters pls.

Some of you probably think I'm joking too.

thellama73 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:You're right Epi and llama. My bad. *skulks away cookieless*

Yes, "borne" means "carried." "Born" means "brought about" "or brought into existence," so only the latter makes sense in Epi'd context. Don't feel bad. He is an English teacher and I am a professional writer.

Matahari wrote:I'm still not sure why MM decided to vote Epig. I guess its something he'll have to answer when he comes back

S~V~S wrote:

thellama73 wrote:One more time, Rico. I hope this satisfies you.

thellama73 wrote: I have answered that question. I wanted to be dramatic. When you just say something, it gets ignored. When you vote, it gets noticed. I was and am very confident that Snowman is bad, so I saw no reason to wait and every reason to get discussion going.

There is no NEED to do anything. I wanted to do it, for the reasons explained above. Why does it bother you so much? I don't understand the NEED to wait until the last minute to vote if you know who you want to vote for.

And you GOT discussion going, now that it is not going the way you had hoped, you are saying, "Why are you all picking on me".

We're discussing. As you wished

@ Boom, yes it does extend across the board

Epignosis wrote:Going to watch episodes 10 & 11 of (according to my five-year-old daughter) "That show with the book thingie."

I'll vote after that.

S~V~S wrote:TBH, the person I am most pinged by at this point is Epignosis. He's arguing points more than people, which is not civvie Epis MO, imo. I am not seeing the Crusader. I am not planning on voting for either llama or Snowman (unless that smoking gun shows up). I have seen Llama do this one time too many, and I think a hell of a lot of people have said a lot less than Snowman, both numerically & content wise.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote: Since we were both so sure on Vomps in the Film game, and were wrong, I wonder how it is you're so sure of yourself. Also, I asked who other than him you'd vote for.

Is being wrong sometimes supposed to turn me into a quivering mass of indecision to be led by others? Nope.

Who would I vote for if I was unable to vote for Snowman? It's a difficult question. Certainly not you. Not boo. Not Epi. Not DH. Probably not even TH anymore. His behavior today is starting to change my opinion of him. I would consider a vote for SVS, based on her misrepresentation of my vote. I would consider a vote for bea. I would consider a vote for Ricochet.

boo wrote:A final thought before I'm gone for a while.

llama began his Snowman suspicion, and mostly rests it on, Snowman looking for a bandwagon to join.

llama has admitted to wanting to bandwagon Snowman.

You vote Snowman, you're probably bandwagoning.

And then D3, llama will lead a bandwagon against you.

Just something to consider.

Matahari wrote:I don't think Epig is up to any good either, but I can't really figure out why I feel that way. He's not doing anything that seems remotely helpful

I still feel weird about Metalmarsh voting Epig. His convo with Llama was very confusing, he seemed to disagree with llama, but then he would post something that sounded like he was feeding llama, then back to disagreeing with him. Then he votes epig, kind of out of the blue. Maybe he has bts with llama.

S~V~S wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote: And Llama, Mata is right. If you do something 20 times, and it gets you lynched 20 times, it's time to modify what you do. It can't be fun for you, since I know how frustrated you get over being lynched early all the time.

That's in direct contradiction to what you told me the last time we had BTSC.

And what was that? This is how I actually feel, I think that you get lynched all the time for your flippant attitude and inability to modify your stance. I can't imagine I said that to you in BTS, but I can't imagine that I said anything in total contradiction of it.

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote: And Llama, Mata is right. If you do something 20 times, and it gets you lynched 20 times, it's time to modify what you do. It can't be fun for you, since I know how frustrated you get over being lynched early all the time.

That's in direct contradiction to what you told me the last time we had BTSC.

And what was that? This is how I actually feel, I think that you get lynched all the time for your flippant attitude and inability to modify your stance. I can't imagine I said that to you in BTS, but I can't imagine that I said anything in total contradiction of it.

Vomps gets away with always playing the same suspicious way. AP gets away with it. Lizzy gets away with it. People say "oh that's just how they are. It doesn't mean anything." Maybe someday people will realize that this is how I am and it doesn't mean I am bad.

S~V~S wrote:And I am going to start watching Death Note now.

Linki, your sincere truths? Like Vomps in Directors?

Snowman wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Epi, she's trying to collect votes so as to lynch anyone but Snowman, in whom she has placed sudden and unexplained trust.

Llama prefers prolonged and unexplained distrust.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:OK, while I see the points on him, I am not all that convinced on BWT, and while I disagree with Llamas case on Snowman, I don't want to vote someone else I am not all that sure of just to save him.

For me it comes down to Epi or Llama, and tbh I am not all that convinced on llama either. So I am voting Epi.

Huh. Joining MM and Russ. You really aren't a "baddie hunter."

Epignosis wrote:Three lynches ending at the same hour.

I am going to vote for S~V~S. Her vote for me was unexplained, as were the three that preceded hers, and I intend to NO-U the hell out of that. Also, she said she wouldn't vote for boo unless there was a "smoking gun." She gives me no such allowance. She has also ignored two of my posts so far.

Movingpictures07 wrote:Snowman
7
thellama73 (3), Elohcin (9), DharmaHelper (10), AceofSpaces (12), zeek (13), Ricochet (14), Epignosis (29) 24%

Epignosis wrote:In Japanese culture, the umbrella protects one against evil spirits.

Turnip Head wrote:This thread was going somewhere productive at one point.

DharmaHelper wrote:Let me just say this before I dive back into the thread to get 100% caught up.

What the fuck are we doing? Epi hasn't hinted or claimed Yotsuba, but we're all acting under the assunption that he is one. TH hasn't hinted or claimed Shinigami (That I can read) but people have given him that role and he's run with it. Russ hasn't hinted or claimed anything, yet Epi (at least) is completely discounting him because he was absent for a few days.

Did we solve the role hinting problem by creating a role-attributing problem?

S~V~S wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:SVS, can I please have a cookie?

Zomba, Snowman has answered about you~ what do you think of him? You were a bit waffly yesterday; first you said you would vote for him, then not so much. He is playing a fun, rollicking kind of game (the kind I used to play and am trying to get back to); is this an aspect of his rl personality?

Linki @DH~ I have not seen anything alarming about Zomba, either. But just becasue someone disagrees with your suspicion does not make it illegitimate. This game started out (as far as I can see) with only four people who knew someone elses identity. So even the baddies are flying in the dark a bit, which I rather like. Also lots of people who are unfamiliar with each others various styles in this game, which I also like. So I think there are going to be more small pings than normal.

Boomslang wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Three lynches ending at the same hour.

I am going to vote for S~V~S. Her vote for me was unexplained, as were the three that preceded hers, and I intend to NO-U the hell out of that. Also, she said she wouldn't vote for boo unless there was a "smoking gun." She gives me no such allowance. She has also ignored two of my posts so far.

WHAT?

Movingpictures07 wrote:Snowman
7
thellama73 (3), Elohcin (9), DharmaHelper (10), AceofSpaces (12), zeek (13), Ricochet (14), Epignosis (29) 24%

I do want to provide a signal boost to this vote. To be fair, Epig provides notification of this change in the thread:

Epignosis wrote:I voted Snowman. S~V~S is now my top suspect.

But he also says this, which is interesting:

Epignosis wrote:I might try to save someone just to make people mad.

That seems to be a fairly flippant justification for a vote change/save attempt. And other than that post, he offers no explanation for why SVS moved from the recipient of his vote to only his "top suspect."

MovingPictures07 wrote:Random factoid:

This game already has more posts than 5 of our previous Current Jobs/Full Games had upon completion.

S~V~S wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:SVS, can I please have a cookie?

Zomba, Snowman has answered about you~ what do you think of him? You were a bit waffly yesterday; first you said you would vote for him, then not so much. He is playing a fun, rollicking kind of game (the kind I used to play and am trying to get back to); is this an aspect of his rl personality?

Linki @DH~ I have not seen anything alarming about Zomba, either. But just becasue someone disagrees with your suspicion does not make it illegitimate. This game started out (as far as I can see) with only four people who knew someone elses identity. So even the baddies are flying in the dark a bit, which I rather like. Also lots of people who are unfamiliar with each others various styles in this game, which I also like. So I think there are going to be more small pings than normal.

I think you mean 6 players started out knowing another player's identity.

I have to reread the roles. I thought there was a pair of detectives, Raye & Naomi, and a pair of baddies, Light & Ryuk. Who did I miss?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Random factoid:

This game already has more posts than 5 of our previous Current Jobs/Full Games had upon completion.

And fewer night polls.

That's true.

For anyone who cares, I considered it, but in the end didn't really feel night polls would be a boon to my setup, especially given its complexity elsewhere.

Plus, I'm generally not the biggest fan of night polls unless I have a really good mechanic for them.

zeek wrote:Need to catch up on the past few pages and look at the voting, but:

Turnip Head wrote:Zeek voted Snowman for implying there was a civ team. What.

That's bullshit. That's not what I said. Don't take my words out of context.

I voted for him for saying he wants to help his team going into the future. I didn't like the language used, teams imply BTSC for me. I disagree with everybody who has since said there is a "civ team" because I don't think there is. We're a community, not a team. If I said shit like that in a game I'd be called out for it, so I've done the same. You are steadily gaining my eye, TH.

Snowman hasn't addressed my point either.

DharmaHelper wrote:It doesn't help that her defense of this accusation thus far has been

1) Gee Willakers! I'm new!

2) Golly Gosh! that was so long ago!

Zomberella12 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

Snowman wrote:

bea wrote: @ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Really!? A legitimate accusation? What would that look like? I think now would be a perfect time for Snowman to demonstrate his case building abilities. Or perhaps he would just like to throw that idea out there and let everyone else do all the work? Llama, we need to talk. I might be experiencing a change of heart.

You mean like this?

Zomberella12 wrote:
Your assessment is astute. I wonder if those you are arguing against understand your logic, agree with it, and are fine with it because they are in fact mafia...
Also, don't give the baddies good ideas.

Holy smoke! That was like D0. And I stand by that. I do thunk it benefited the baddies to vote that way. I think that post makes me look good.

Because it was Day 0 its not suspicious? It makes you look good to do the thing you said makes Snow look bad?

Hold up. Yes, because it was D0 it does make a difference. It was the ONLY thing we had to go on. I was not on board with the whole "Snow looks bad because he wanted a bandwagon to join" argument that Lllama was selling (is that the thing you are referring to?). In fact I said that it was a WEAK case. Saying that baddies would vote for L/Light was not a bandwagon anyway, it was deductive reasoning.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:It doesn't help that her defense of this accusation thus far has been

1) Gee Willakers! I'm new!

2) Golly Gosh! that was so long ago!

Apparently your accusation was not legitimate, so... what are you worried about?

I don't understand what you mean.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:@DH-Give me a break. I've barely been able to keep up with you let alone make meaningful and well crafted additions to the conversation. This is only my second game ever. I haven't had time to formulate any kind of strategy and trying to analyze me would be weird because I'm still trying to figure out how to play. I like to post and I agreed with Boo. That's it.

There you go Marsh.

I think Snowman was right, it was pretty telling how you handled this accusation, Zomb.

Matahari wrote:

Detectives win when all killers (Kiras) have been stopped and justice has prevailed.

Does anyone think the use of the word stopped, instead of killed, means anything?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Kyosuke Higuchi (Third Kira) – A very greedy and power-hungry man who becomes the owner of a Death Note if a certain chain of events occurs. However, little does he know he is no more than a tool in an elaborate scheme orchestrated by the original Kira. Each night, while in possession of a Death Note, he votes on a victim for Kira to kill, concealing the fact that he is actually the one deciding others’ fates. Higuchi cannot be lynched or night killed until he receives a Death Note; thereafter, even if the Note is taken from him, he can die. When he possesses a Death Note, all members of Yotsuba vote on a player to die every night, but Higuchi has a choice to override the player to be killed. However, if he does so, he risks the chance of outing himself to his fellow members. Each member currently alive has a 25% chance of learning Higuchi’s real identity every time a kill is overriden, with a 75% chance of instead receiving a randomly redirected result. When he gains his Death Note, he is offered the Shinigami Eye Deal. If Higuchi takes the Eye Deal, he can role check two players every night but he must kill one of those two players; this only applies if he overrides the kill selection. If Higuchi currently cannot kill with a Death Note or does not override the kill target, he cannot role check anyone. Because the Eye Deal cuts his lifespan, all votes against Higuchi in lynches will be doubled for the remainder of the game. If Higuchi refuses the Eye Deal, he still may change his mind and accept it later at any time.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

zeek wrote:Need to catch up on the past few pages and look at the voting, but:

Turnip Head wrote:Zeek voted Snowman for implying there was a civ team. What.

That's bullshit. That's not what I said. Don't take my words out of context.

I voted for him for saying he wants to help his team going into the future. I didn't like the language used, teams imply BTSC for me. I disagree with everybody who has since said there is a "civ team" because I don't think there is. We're a community, not a team. If I said shit like that in a game I'd be called out for it, so I've done the same. You are steadily gaining my eye, TH.

Snowman hasn't addressed my point either.

I looked back at the Snowman post you mentioned, and I don't think it's suspicious. It sounded to me like a comment made about mafia-gameplay in general and his meta-game, rather then being a post specifically about this mafia game.

Turnip Head wrote:Okay. So do you want to make a conclusion or hypothesis about Zeek based on that?

thellama73 wrote:It's good to get attention at Night. It makes you less likely to be NKed if the baddies think you might get lynched tomorrow.

Epignosis wrote:In case it isn't clear, lynching Yotsuba is a bad idea. People who do so will excuse their vote as "Well, at least it wasn't a detective." Yotsuba are padding in this context: Kira can lynch them, happy to burn another lynch, and the detectives will be okay with this, because it wasn't one of them. That is dangerous thinking from a numbers perspective.

MP's Death Note setup is interesting to me because there is no possible civilian credit. Mafia cannot lynch one of their own and be considered good. At the same time, you cannot lynch Mafia and draw connections to other people.

So I don't want this post to go unnoticed:

boo wrote:I think potential BWT voters should vote llama. But I'd also like to point out to potential BWT voters that they're a day behind, so if they lynch BWT today, then maybe they'll get to llama tomorrow. That would work.

We lynched birdwithteeth, so maybe we'll go after llama tomorrow.

There is a tactic that involves setting up the next lynch before the present lynch is concluded. It's a close cousin to the false dilemma, and Mafia exploit the psychology behind it. When presented with an undesirable outcome, there is a mental tendency to wish that one had voted for the other popular option, and the next Day offers that opportunity.

Like thinking that a vanilla Yotsuba lynch is OK, this is a hazardous mentality.

I have more to say, but in an effort to keep my posts concise, I'll post this now.

S~V~S wrote:Yeah.

Turnip Head wrote:@Rico: No and I think that might have been a joke on FZ's part. I no longer believe X Kira's strict schedule has any bearing on his role's abilities.

lots of linki

Turnip Head wrote:I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Matahari wrote:I don't think Epig is up to any good either, but I can't really figure out why I feel that way. He's not doing anything that seems remotely helpful

I still feel weird about Metalmarsh voting Epig. His convo with Llama was very confusing, he seemed to disagree with llama, but then he would post something that sounded like he was feeding llama, then back to disagreeing with him. Then he votes epig, kind of out of the blue. Maybe he has bts with llama.

Wait, wait what? You suspect Epi, then you suspect me for voting Epi for the same reason you suspected.

S~V~S wrote:But I feel OK about Llama, actually; he & I disagree, but everything he did was in character. I feel OK about boo. I feel better about FZ than I did. So far so good on Matahari. I feel pretty OK about Zomba. Bea I am not sure about. MM pinged me early, with the little fit he pitched, and has been being way nice to me since. Hrm.

thellama73 wrote:I like SVS's "who would kill Long Con?" question very much. That seems like a fruitful avenue to explore, and I will have to think about it a lot before casting my next vote.

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I like SVS's "who would kill Long Con?" question very much. That seems like a fruitful avenue to explore, and I will have to think about it a lot before casting my next vote.

I would. Long Con would have been my first kill. I am amazed that he lasts as long as he does in games. He's manipulative and dangerous. Even in the Game of Champions, he only took had one NK against him, and that was at his request.

ooo WIFOM

thellama73 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:So you're eliminating Epi from being Kira because Long Con suspected him?

Would you kill someone who was gunning for you on the first night? It's a bit obvious, isn't it?

Epignosis wrote:I've said all that I needed to say. I'll be back after the Night post if I'm alive (which I think I will be). Going to watch a little TV.

S~V~S wrote:Wow, TH & MM already voted.

Epignosis wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:He's got a lot of posts... anything I should be looking for?

Just logic. Any detective in his or her right MIND would be trying to come off as Yotsuba. If Kira don't need Yotsuba dead to win, and detectives don't need Yotsuba dead to win, then it makes the most sense to pretend to be Yotsuba, doesn't it?

You guys.

Boomslang wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I think Epi might be Kira posing as Yotsuba so that we don't view him as a threat. I also think he might have killed LC.

More importantly, if Epi is Kira, why would he have killed LC, whom he suspected as Yotsuba? From what I understand, Epi views the Yotsuba as a fairly independent team, and if he were Kira, he'd want to focus his fire on detectives. It'd be nice if he could explain his reasoning behind the judgment of LC as Yotsuba, though.

juliets wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

juliets wrote:lol, I'll deny it, which I do, and you will not provide reasoning for me to defend myself. Nice.

If you are Yotsuba, you have no need to defend yourself. Unless you are Kira.

It seems that most people believe the Yotsubas are like independents except for the Kira one and that independents are as bad or almost as bad as being baddies. From that perspective I feel like I need to defend myself. There's nothing to work with yet though so I'll wait.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The way I see it, the Yotsuba are a dormant group of neutral players right now.

boo wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

So our last lynch was pretty good. Lets get another baddie today.

That's clearly a demon-possessed llama. Therefore, we should kill llama.

Also, I saw Zomberella with the devil-llama.

Epignosis wrote:That won't happen Boomslang. I have three other people pegged as Yotsuba. I will not talk about them.

Epignosis wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

Epignosis wrote:That won't happen Boomslang. I have three other people pegged as Yotsuba. I will not talk about them.

I completely understand you not wanting to reveal all your cards, especially when indicating people who might eventually get a kill. The claim that you've got three other Yotsuba suspects is at least interesting new intel. I don't expect you to name names, but can you say if you suspect them for the same reasons as you suspected LC? Would give us something to look for in possible rereads.

I firmly believe juliets is Yotsuba.

She'll deny it, and I refuse to give my reasoning, but I think I'm right.

Zomberella12 wrote:Since Yotsuba are so much more interesting than Snowman....

Is there any way that LC was a target because Kira knew his name, not because he was a particularly strategic target?

Turnip Head wrote:Boomslang, I think you are wasting your time looking for Yotsuba connections. We should be looking into Epi first, and THEN the people he namedropped, right?