The Syndicate

boo wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Knowing the price, would you accept the eyes of a Shinigami?
How much do the eyes of a death god go for?

If I remember rightly from the show, the deal to get Shinigami eyes halves your lifespan?

Epi, explain your vote or I will vote for you every day for the rest of the game until I get you lynched.

Turnip Head wrote:Why is Epi's vote so important to so many people?

Cause this busta said he was gonna vote Russ for a whack ass reason and flaked out.

Perhaps you are confident in your ability to make others accountable for their voting record, but you are just one voice

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Why is Epi's vote so important to so many people?
Cause this busta said he was gonna vote Russ for a whack ass reason and flaked out.
Channeling my inner-Epi here. I surmise that Epi was not only forced to vote a certain way today, but his benefits increase based on how many people talk about his vote. In my hosting (and playing) experience, I have seen this included in games before, and there is no civvie explanation for such a behavior. My vote will go to Epi tomorrow despite any other unforeseen circumstance.

How's that?

Are you sarcastically suggesting that someone used a night power on him during D0-D1?

Turnip Head wrote:My own inner-Epi tells me that nobody else voted Russ so it doesn't really matter that Epi didn't either. Maybe he is waiting to gather more evidence against Russ. That would be a smart way to go.

Nobody else voted for Epi either. Forgoing your own genuine suspicion because its not what everybody else is doing is bullshit.

I was going to make a rather large post about why I suspect Epi, but I doubt it would get read, so instead I will make a list, and if anyone wants me to elaborate on any specific thing, let me know. I suspect Epi and will vote for him for the following reasons:

1) His fear mongering and shifty behavior in the D0 poll
2) His Hypocritical suspicion of Rico's Lore-Based assumptions, given his own lore-based assumptions.
3) His shoddy, lore-based reasoning for suspecting Russ.
4) The idea that he chose to suspect and claimed that he wanted to vote for Russ, who seemingly could not / cannot defend himself.
5) The fact that he flaked out of this vote rather than sticking to his guns
6) The fact that he did not want to explain why he did not stick to his guns.

Zomberella12 wrote:Did I miss where it said why there aren't descriptions for some of the members of the Yabushabu (yellow team)?

I don't know if anyone answered this. I assumed the Youtubers are vanilla?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Does someone want to ask me a question?

Are the Youtubers without role descriptions vanilla?

MP, why did Epi not vote for Russ?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Urge to modkill the next player who acts me a stupid question rising...

Lemme axe you a question homie.

Turnip Head wrote:DH can you explain your votes in this night poll please? I am noting some inconsistencies.

The poll said we could vote a total of 9 times and so that is what I did.

zeek wrote:I found myself agreeing with Epi over the D0 vote but since then he's lost me a bit. This little tiff with DH seems rather pointless to me, as it's not helping at all. We'll have to lynch one of these guys eventually if they can't let their egos cool off and cooperate. That said, maybe this is a calculated move by both of them.

We'll have to lynch you eventually if your criteria for baddieness is disagreement.

@SVS

3. See 2, although "shoddy" is a bit hyperbole on your part tbh. And for me hyperbole=shoddy, so meh. But yeah, that seemed a very specific assumption re Russti when there are so many role secrets.

Shoddy is hyperbole? I wouldn't suspect him if he suspicion of Russ was any good, lol

As for this whole "Standard/Typical Epi" thing:

No. I get up in people''s business when they do this about AP and Vompatti, and I'mma do it here. You cannot excuse someone or give them a pass simply because what they are doing is "typical" of then. Especially if what they are doing is suspicious.

Thats...thats what I said

Just kidding I never intended to vote for Epi it was a trap! HAHA!

Epignosis wrote:I am of the persuasion now that Russtifinko has a role that prevents him from posting, and probably not a good one. He voted. He is present. But he is not posting.

Although I am determined to spoil nothing more for myself (and fucking did anyway), I did a quick Google search: "Death Note" silence.

Interestingly enough, the twenty-fifth episode of Death Note is entitled "Silence." It centers on Rem and Misa.

So huh.

Epignosis wrote:Russ is where I'll likely be voting. He was here and answered all the interrogation room questions. That means there is a game-related reason he isn't posting here, and I cannot surmise a civilian explanation for that.

Epignosis wrote:With all the secrets involved, it would not surprise me that Russti has a role that requires his silence. That there is a Death Note Episode entitled "Silence" featuring Rem and Misa is a delicious coincidence.

Epignosis wrote:I don't understand the purpose this kind of speculating has. Damn near every role has secrets.

Major linkage? You are no good sir.

FWIW my biggest non-Epi suspects I would have to say are FZ and Zomberella.

juliets wrote:DH I'm surprised you are seeing Zombrella as potentially bad. What are you seeing from her that leads you to that conclusion? I'm wondering what I missed.

My third suspect is Zomberella for this post
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=541&start=120#p114692

Which I found suspicious because it reads to me like an early attempt to put suspicion on players, but not by directly accusing them. Rather, by accusing them by proxy via boo and having boo do the legwork/put the pieces of that case together, therefore making the results of the case boos responsibility.

This hasn't changed.

juliets wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
juliets wrote:DH I'm surprised you are seeing Zombrella as potentially bad. What are you seeing from her that leads you to that conclusion? I'm wondering what I missed.

My third suspect is Zomberella for this post
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=541&start=120#p114692

Which I found suspicious because it reads to me like an early attempt to put suspicion on players, but not by directly accusing them. Rather, by accusing them by proxy via boo and having boo do the legwork/put the pieces of that case together, therefore making the results of the case boos responsibility.
This hasn't changed.
I'm sorry. There are just so many posts I overlooked this one. Thanks!

No need to apologize.

See, the thing is I don't think Epignosis is a complete asshole. And for that reason I doubt he is a harmless Youtuber. I think this because we've all been having a very serious discussion about role hinting recently, and if you disagree that Epi's actions thusfar have been designed to hint very heavily at being a harmless Youtuber, we're gonna have words.

bea wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:See, the thing is I don't think Epignosis is a complete asshole. And for that reason I doubt he is a harmless Youtuber. I think this because we've all been having a very serious discussion about role hinting recently, and if you disagree that Epi's actions thusfar have been designed to hint very heavily at being a harmless Youtuber, we're gonna have words.
I think I get what you are saying? Because he has been heavily hinting to be a harmelss youwhatevermagiggie he can't possibly be that because he's not a complete asshole rght? (I note there is no comment on him being a partial asshole. )

Or are you saying you believe his heavy hintings about being a harmless youtubawhatchamacalit, but you don't believe they are harmless.

He obviously wants to push the idea that the majority of the Yotsuba are harmless. Now, the logical conclusion to draw from that is that he himself is a Yotsuba and is being heavy handed in trying to secure his safety in the game. As I said earlier, if we follow the logic that he is a Yotsuba, he's tipped his cohorts off so that they won't vote for him, and made it less likely that he will be lynched (because most people, if they follow his line of thought, will leave the 'harmless' Yotsuba for at best, endgame). The problem there is while pushing the Yotsuba as harmless benefits him by protecting him from Yotsuba kills and lynches, it does not protect him from Light kills, but rather the opposite.

See if you can stay with me on this, because it may be a bit of a stretch, but the thought occurred to me and I'm sort of stream-of-consciousness typing it out. The way a Death Note works is you need to know a persons real name and what they look like in order to use one to kill them. So if Epi really is a Yotsuba, being so incredibly heavy handed about it makes it much much easier for him to be night killed. Though this loses a bit of gas since Light's team does not need the Yotsuba dead to win.

So I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't think Epi is a harmless Yotsuba because he (I don't think) would role hint so heavily if he were. His motives for doing so elude me, but if I had to guess I would peg him as the Yotsuba Kira or a member of Light's crew for the following reasons:

1) No detective in their right mind would openly push such a crap idea, knowing the suspicion it would bring them. Regardless of the NKing protection it affords from both Light and Yotsuba, it is far too sketchy a stance and would very likely result in his lynch.
2) If he is the Yotsuba Kira, it tips off his cohorts without directly pegging him as the Yotsuba Kira, which could prove fruitful
3) If he is anyone on Light's team, he conceals his real identity, protects himself from lynches by pretending to be a hapless Yotsuba, and protects himself from Yotsuba kills without any real consequence.

All this to say the bottom line is I'm convinced the Yotsuba thing is a ploy, and that no civvie would feel the need to come up with such a ploy.

boo wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
FZ. wrote:This has never happened to me. I don't miss votes. Ever! But I had to leave yesterday to watch a movie with my husband and while I wanted to vote before, I couldn't make up my mind, so I decided to wait until after we finish watching, and I fell asleep in the middle of the movie. Now I might get punished and I didn't finish the movie I've been badly wanting to see (Grand Budapest hotel), and we have to return it.

Anyway, I see that you lynched Trice. I'm at work so I don't have time to read everything or check the voting poll, but if it was closely tied with someone else, I'm even more sorry for missing it.

I'll be back later
How can one possibly fall asleep during Grand Budapest Hotel? *votes FZ*

Who would you have voted for, if you would have returned?
I know That's what happens when you go to sleep at 2 am and wake up at 7 am four times a week.

I have no idea, and that's why I waited. I know some people are seeing me as a baddie because I'm kind of all over the place this game, but screw them. I'm allowed to hesitate, and this game is giving me a headache. Too much conversation.
As a player who came from another site where one day lasts 5 real days, and there's endless talk, it was refreshing to not have so much to catch up when I play here. I can't concentrate. That's why I like the speed games, because there are less players. I find it easier to find suspicious posts when they are not drowned in a sea of posts and arguments.

And now back to catching up. By the way, didn't Trice die? Did anyone resurrect him? I guess I'll find out
You don't know who you would have vote for? What?

FZ. wrote:Dang, I need to go, and I don't think I'll be back before going to sleep. I don't feel comfortable voting for any of those with votes yet Zombarealla, if you're a civvie, I'm really sorry.

*votes zombarealla*
You were literally ready to vote for someone, in the space of about 20 minutes got talked out of it and didn't actually vote, and then missed the vote. Which you knew (it seems to me at least) was a possibility if you didn't vote at that time.

Epignosis wrote:Ah, my favorite kind of DharmaHelper: Wrong.

I didn't hint. I corrected assumptions that make this game an impossible 12 civilians vs. 14 Mafia. It is 12 civilians vs. 4 Kira. I am less inclined to believe that someone is a detective who fails to grasp his or her own win condition or expands it to mean eliminating literally everybody else in the game.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back Epi, you suspected FZ because of her absence as well, saying she is probably bad with SD. But FZ has since contributed quite a bit (though she did miss the lynch), and you never updated your suspicion to something current. If you did, then I can't find it.
I don't share your assessment of FZ. I think she has since posted a lot, but the content is not what I associate with good FZ. Good FZ. has a certain tenacity and assurance. She is a focused civilian, one that has proven dangerous to Mafia. I am not seeing that here.
We're definitely not on the same page. Whether or not it's constructive, FZ has contributed of late. Whether you think she's bad or good, you put her in a tough spot by suspecting her for 'being absent'. Same with Russ. Their continued absence will increase the suspicion of them. Also, if they do get around to talking, they'll be under the magnifying glass for being a previous target. It's a lose-lose situation for them.

Now, I do agree with your current observations of FZ. I also earlier missed this post on her, so your vote is more clear to me.

Now, if I may ask. Why do you think it is not foolish to vote someone on Day 1 who does not post on Day 1, but you still wanted to wait until Russ posted to vote for him?
Russ hasn't posted at all. Period. It's Night 1 and he still has not posted. This is unusual for him and something that warrants attention. I'm not sure if that answers your question. I suspect FZ. for entirely different reasons than I suspect Russ.

Aight.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I am of the persuasion now that Russtifinko has a role that prevents him from posting, and probably not a good one. He voted. He is present. But he is not posting.

Although I am determined to spoil nothing more for myself (and fucking did anyway), I did a quick Google search: "Death Note" silence.

Interestingly enough, the twenty-fifth episode of Death Note is entitled "Silence." It centers on Rem and Misa.

So huh.

Epignosis wrote:Russ is where I'll likely be voting. He was here and answered all the interrogation room questions. That means there is a game-related reason he isn't posting here, and I cannot surmise a civilian explanation for that.

Epignosis wrote:With all the secrets involved, it would not surprise me that Russti has a role that requires his silence. That there is a Death Note Episode entitled "Silence" featuring Rem and Misa is a delicious coincidence.

Epignosis wrote:I don't understand the purpose this kind of speculating has. Damn near every role has secrets.

Major linkage? You are no good sir.

Ricochet wrote:That's gonna be hard to fit in an avatar, DH.

True dat.

From a detective's perspective, one who believes that Russ cannot be one of the vanilla Yotsuba, there is a 52.3% chance Russtifinko is not a detective. Someone feel free to correct my math. I did this in a hurry because I am cooking and I have to leave soon.

I don't understand your point. Mainly due to the fact that (unless I'm mistaken) the odds are similar or actually worse that anyone else is a non-detective role?

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
From a detective's perspective, one who believes that Russ cannot be one of the vanilla Yotsuba, there is a 52.3% chance Russtifinko is not a detective. Someone feel free to correct my math. I did this in a hurry because I am cooking and I have to leave soon.
I don't understand your point. Mainly due to the fact that (unless I'm mistaken) the odds are similar or actually worse that anyone else is a non-detective role?
I said I did it in a hurry. If Russ isn't vanilla Yotsuba, Trice's role, and the role you are (if you are a detective), then it's more likely Russ is bad was my meaning.

Alrighty, but is the same not true (or even worse) for literally everyone else?

My point being I don't want to put faith in a suspicion founded on little more than a coin flip.

TH Has already voted for Llama

boo wrote:Well Epi, those reveals make me interested to know why you wanted to know if people would accept the eye deal...

zeek wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
zeek wrote:I found myself agreeing with Epi over the D0 vote but since then he's lost me a bit. This little tiff with DH seems rather pointless to me, as it's not helping at all. We'll have to lynch one of these guys eventually if they can't let their egos cool off and cooperate. That said, maybe this is a calculated move by both of them.
We'll have to lynch you eventually if your criteria for baddieness is disagreement.
Good luck with that My criteria for baddieness is not disagreement. Don't continue this day after day. Vote Epi and if you can't get the support to lynch him, move on until you can. This sort of thing can easily derail discussion and I don't want that.

Bogged down by work today and it's late so I'm going to bed. I have 5 pages to catch up which I will endeavour to do tomorrow. Got a busy weekend but I will do my best to contribute.

Me? Move on? You do know who I am right?

I don't have an avatar for this situation.

I'm hearing a lot of "This is not typical FZ." not so much "This is not typical civ FZ." can anyone reconcile the two for me?

boo wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I'm satisfied. What about you guys?
If it's such an obvious mechanic as Epi is making it sound like, when he's 7 episodes in, why did no one who has seen all of it not already mentioned it as a mechanic we should be worried about, and DH, who has seen it was still suspicious of Epi (at least before he gave the explanation). So either it's an elaborate set up by everyone who knows the theme to get Epi killed, or it's a minor thing and it's still weird Epi thinks it is so obvious it's a game mechanic and it's weird he just happened to bring it up before any non-baddie could know it was in the game with certainty.

In all fairness, I was aware of the Shinigami Eyes as they relate to the show and silently considered they could play a part in the game. I just felt like it would be more appropriate to wait until more information presented itself before I added my two cents.

thellama73 wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Why do you think Russ didn't post on Day 1, boo?
That's becoming a really tedious question. Doesn't anyone want to ask anything else?

Epi, how come you didn't vote for Russ?

A lot of people using the word boring in this game so far. You know who else uses that word in DN? Ryuk.

Just as a neat little factoid, 58% of currently alive players have no vested interest in lynching non-detective roles.

Turnip Head wrote:Mata's pinging me a bit. Her post ^^ looks like it has a baddie mindset to it, specifically a baddie without BTSC trying to figure out what's going on.

Walk me through how it is you arrived at this conclusion.

Turnip Head wrote:I read Mata's post and then that's the impression I got from it.

What about her post gave you this impression?

Turnip Head wrote:I forgot to mention that I consolidated the "Natural Suspect" and "Elusive" categories into one, because as I was building my list I realized they were somewhat similar.

Also, as you can see I labeled everybody a Thinker, because everyone has expressed thought at some point. They are still ranked according to overall contribution (according to me).

How generous of you to exclude yourself from the top 10.

For those who cannot see TH's avatar

Black Rock wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:For those who cannot see TH's avatar

I see TH's avatar and it is not that.

Well, my powers of deduction conclude that BR has indeed not kept up with the thread discussion.

The avatar I linked was mine for a short time. The joke being my resilience in trying to get Epi to answer the pictured question

Long Con wrote:I think people generally put too much stock in the idea of someone newer being "coached" in the thread. In my experience, it rarely happens. To suggest that Snowman is NOT in BTSC because of the lack of coaching on "bandwagon" is not something I would ever consider a reasonable assumption. Even if he had BTSC, I doubt that he would run everything he says through the chat before he posts it.

WANTON SPECULATIONS

Gonna read up on the talk I've missed.

Actually votes by other Shinigami would kill Ryuk and the other Shinigami if, say for example, the vote was unanimous.

DharmaHelper wrote:Actually votes by other Shinigami would kill Ryuk and the other Shinigami if, say for example, the vote was unanimous.

Nah I was wrong. I read "Votes by humans do not affect him" and did not think about the rest.

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