The Syndicate

Black Rock wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

boo wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

Would you like to be more vague please?

Black Rock wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

boo wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

Would you like to be more vague please?

In the show, at some point someone adds fake rules to a Death Note. Death Notes come with "rules" on like the first page that dictate how to use one.

Ok, I know nothing of the show but aren't death notes different from the roles?

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

So your contention is that Snowman "has not had the chance to respond" until the very moment of the poll closing? Surely you can see that this is madness.

AceofSpaces wrote:I just want to throw my two cents in on something here. I'm not a fan of the "new player" excuse. New players can be evasive and post next to nothing of value and they are given a free pass? I don't like that. I haven't seen anything constructive from Snowman, and I don't care if he's a new player or not.

Epignosis wrote:I also think Long Con is Yotsuba.

boo wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I also think Long Con is Yotsuba.

So your teammate then. I could see it.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I think today we learned that you sheep need a strong shephard, and it was a mistake of me to deny you your glorious leader for 48 hours.

I haven't deleted the other avatar I've ever used on thi-

oh wait we voted the same way didn't we

Zomberella12 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Aw dang Epi we lynched a boyscout

Why are you calling the Yakisoba boyscouts? They are not the good guys.

Made wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Made wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Elohcin wrote: And I am confused as well about Yotsuba. Do they need to be deaded for the detectives to win? And Kira wins when the detectives are gone (so says page 1) but what about Yotsuba for them. MP can you clear this up?

This is all I can say regarding each faction's win conditions:

Detectives (12)

Detectives win when all killers (Kiras) have been stopped and justice has prevailed.

Yotsuba Group (7)

While Higuchi possesses a Death Note, every night all members of Yotsuba decide on whom Kira should kill. They do not share BTSC by default. Members of Yotsuba Group win by ??????.

Kira and His Sympathizers (7)

Unlike typical baddie teams, these roles do not all share BTSC by default. See individual roles for publicly known BTSC information. Kira and His Sympathizers win when Kira has eliminated the Detectives and subsequently starts his utopian New World.

IF a win condition is fulfilled, is the game over?

Very good question.

Not necessarily, no.

ok, This is going to ruffle a lot of feathers.....

What if we try to kill all the Kiras, then kill all the detectives? This way, the Detectives win, then most of the Kira supporters win.

I've been saying this for a while now. Someone else, DH, Ace, can't remember said that 58% of us don't want to kiss non-detectives. This game seems to be less of a civvie/baddie/independant type game. Even as a viewer of the show, (as I said before) it's difficult to decide who to go for....Light or the Detectives. Both feel they are doing what is good and right.

I honestly think it might be best that we stop referring to each other as civ or bad and instead as kira or detectives.

bea wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I was gonna try and keep trucking through my catch up then I read beas post. lol no.


@Eloh - I said the 58% thing, but I think the bulk of the "Eloh is trying to rationalize her kills" suspicion came from the highlighted area.

I've been saying this for a while now. Someone else, DH, Ace, can't remember said that 58% of us don't want to kiss non-detectives. This game seems to be less of a civvie/baddie/independant type game. Even as a viewer of the show, (as I said before) it's difficult to decide who to go for....Light or the Detectives. Both feel they are doing what is good and right.

I honestly think it might be best that we stop referring to each other as civ or bad and instead as kira or detectives.

Which are all things you said.

So that way was wrong too? Would you rather I go back to just posting a reply to every post I read so you wake up to like 10000 posts from me? I miss alot on weekends because of time zones and because I don't get done working till after 2 AM my time. Literally everyone in the world is asleep. Help me help you make my catch up posts less painful.

Or don't laugh at me.

Either or.

This. Very seriously this

Snowman wrote:

bea wrote: @ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Zomberella12 wrote:

Snowman wrote:

bea wrote: @ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Really!? A legitimate accusation? What would that look like? I think now would be a perfect time for Snowman to demonstrate his case building abilities. Or perhaps he would just like to throw that idea out there and let everyone else do all the work? Llama, we need to talk. I might be experiencing a change of heart.

Zomberella12 wrote:
Your assessment is astute. I wonder if those you are arguing against understand your logic, agree with it, and are fine with it because they are in fact mafia...
Also, don't give the baddies good ideas.

Zomberella12 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

Snowman wrote:

bea wrote: @ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Really!? A legitimate accusation? What would that look like? I think now would be a perfect time for Snowman to demonstrate his case building abilities. Or perhaps he would just like to throw that idea out there and let everyone else do all the work? Llama, we need to talk. I might be experiencing a change of heart.

You mean like this?

Zomberella12 wrote:
Your assessment is astute. I wonder if those you are arguing against understand your logic, agree with it, and are fine with it because they are in fact mafia...
Also, don't give the baddies good ideas.

Holy smoke! That was like D0. And I stand by that. I do thunk it benefited the baddies to vote that way. I think that post makes me look good.

juliets wrote:sorry, i screwed up the post. It's a question for DH if that helps.

S~V~S wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:SVS, can I please have a cookie?

Zomba, Snowman has answered about you~ what do you think of him? You were a bit waffly yesterday; first you said you would vote for him, then not so much. He is playing a fun, rollicking kind of game (the kind I used to play and am trying to get back to); is this an aspect of his rl personality?

Linki @DH~ I have not seen anything alarming about Zomba, either. But just becasue someone disagrees with your suspicion does not make it illegitimate. This game started out (as far as I can see) with only four people who knew someone elses identity. So even the baddies are flying in the dark a bit, which I rather like. Also lots of people who are unfamiliar with each others various styles in this game, which I also like. So I think there are going to be more small pings than normal.

I think you mean 6 players started out knowing another player's identity.

I have to reread the roles. I thought there was a pair of detectives, Raye & Naomi, and a pair of baddies, Light & Ryuk. Who did I miss?

juliets wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

juliets wrote:DH I'm surprised you are seeing Zombrella as potentially bad. What are you seeing from her that leads you to that conclusion? I'm wondering what I missed.

My third suspect is Zomberella for this post
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=541&start=120#p114692

Which I found suspicious because it reads to me like an early attempt to put suspicion on players, but not by directly accusing them. Rather, by accusing them by proxy via boo and having boo do the legwork/put the pieces of that case together, therefore making the results of the case boos responsibility.

This hasn't changed.

I'm sorry. There are just so many posts I overlooked this one. Thanks!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:It doesn't help that her defense of this accusation thus far has been

1) Gee Willakers! I'm new!

2) Golly Gosh! that was so long ago!

Apparently your accusation was not legitimate, so... what are you worried about?

Zomberella12 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

Snowman wrote:

bea wrote: @ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Really!? A legitimate accusation? What would that look like? I think now would be a perfect time for Snowman to demonstrate his case building abilities. Or perhaps he would just like to throw that idea out there and let everyone else do all the work? Llama, we need to talk. I might be experiencing a change of heart.

You mean like this?

Zomberella12 wrote:
Your assessment is astute. I wonder if those you are arguing against understand your logic, agree with it, and are fine with it because they are in fact mafia...
Also, don't give the baddies good ideas.

Holy smoke! That was like D0. And I stand by that. I do thunk it benefited the baddies to vote that way. I think that post makes me look good.

Because it was Day 0 its not suspicious? It makes you look good to do the thing you said makes Snow look bad?

Hold up. Yes, because it was D0 it does make a difference. It was the ONLY thing we had to go on. I was not on board with the whole "Snow looks bad because he wanted a bandwagon to join" argument that Lllama was selling (is that the thing you are referring to?). In fact I said that it was a WEAK case. Saying that baddies would vote for L/Light was not a bandwagon anyway, it was deductive reasoning.

Zomberella12 wrote:@DH-Give me a break. I've barely been able to keep up with you let alone make meaningful and well crafted additions to the conversation. This is only my second game ever. I haven't had time to formulate any kind of strategy and trying to analyze me would be weird because I'm still trying to figure out how to play. I like to post and I agreed with Boo. That's it.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:@DH-Give me a break. I've barely been able to keep up with you let alone make meaningful and well crafted additions to the conversation. This is only my second game ever. I haven't had time to formulate any kind of strategy and trying to analyze me would be weird because I'm still trying to figure out how to play. I like to post and I agreed with Boo. That's it.

There you go Marsh.

I think Snowman was right, it was pretty telling how you handled this accusation, Zomb.

Thanks. I didn't see that one.

So you think she is wilting under the pressure? I'm seeing the opposite here. What do you think about her accusations of Snowman?

Matahari wrote:

Detectives win when all killers (Kiras) have been stopped and justice has prevailed.

Does anyone think the use of the word stopped, instead of killed, means anything?

Elohcin wrote:I have two pages to catch up on, but I want to comment on a few things before reading on as I have things to get to before I can sit an read for a bit.

Epignosis wrote:Elohcin's game has evolved to the point where such insight is no longer reliable.

You heard it guys. I am becoming a better Mafia player.

DharmaHelper wrote:I was gonna try and keep trucking through my catch up then I read beas post. lol no.


@Eloh - I said the 58% thing, but I think the bulk of the "Eloh is trying to rationalize her kills" suspicion came from the highlighted area.

I've been saying this for a while now. Someone else, DH, Ace, can't remember said that 58% of us don't want to kiss non-detectives. This game seems to be less of a civvie/baddie/independant type game. Even as a viewer of the show, (as I said before) it's difficult to decide who to go for....Light or the Detectives. Both feel they are doing what is good and right.

I honestly think it might be best that we stop referring to each other as civ or bad and instead as kira or detectives.

Most mafia games (even though evenly balances hopefully) are lots of civs vs. a few baddies. I was just pointing out that this game seems to be pretty even if not more baddies than civvies. It made me wonder why people are so willing to admit they are detectives. As for talking about both sides feeling they are doing what is right. I was specifically talking about the SHOW. But anyway....TH pointed out to me that its basically detectives vs kiras and that yotsuba don't seem to play much of a part in the win conditions, so......my thoughts on the matter have changed a good bit. So really...this argument is no longer relevant. Okay, time to go cook for for little people and perform other motherly responsibilities. I shall be back to catch up.

Epignosis wrote:Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

S~V~S wrote:Some people do not act or feel like baddies to me, so at this stage, I feel OK about them. I am not sure why you would ask people to name the people they feel OK about. I would like to hear more from BR, but what I have heard was OK.

But I feel OK about Llama, actually; he & I disagree, but everything he did was in character. I feel OK about boo. I feel better about FZ than I did. So far so good on Matahari. I feel pretty OK about Zomba. Bea I am not sure about. MM pinged me early, with the little fit he pitched, and has been being way nice to me since. Hrm.

No real read on Boom, or Bass. Zeek seems a tad pissy about being quesitoned. I have no clue what TH is up to, but it's funny. Snowman is a blank; the case against him was weak, but the fact that his wife thinks he's bad, and his reaction to her post, is making me rethink that. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. I want to trust DH, but the last game is too close. I wish Russ would post more.

I am a bit leery of Eloh, but only a tiny bit. That comment about not saying baddies/civvies pinged me a bit, but her explanation went most of the way towards settling that. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I am trying to listen to the small voice, rather than all the big "personalities" monopolizing the thread.

What question about boo? I might have missed it in this thread.

Linki @ Mata

S~V~S wrote:I know, that's why I said the last game is too close. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, either. I want to, though. You sound so reasonable

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I like SVS's "who would kill Long Con?" question very much. That seems like a fruitful avenue to explore, and I will have to think about it a lot before casting my next vote.

I would. Long Con would have been my first kill. I am amazed that he lasts as long as he does in games. He's manipulative and dangerous. Even in the Game of Champions, he only took had one NK against him, and that was at his request.

ooo WIFOM

S~V~S wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:So you're eliminating Epi from being Kira because Long Con suspected him?

Would you kill someone who was gunning for you on the first night? It's a bit obvious, isn't it?

Yes. Becasue then people say,

thellama73 wrote:
Would you kill someone who was gunning for you on the first night? It's a bit obvious, isn't it?

They say it every game. Someone who had strong suspicions of a person is NKed, and everyone says, "Oh, the dead guy suspected RacerX. But RacerX would never do that, it's too obvious." And they move on, leaving RacerX to chortle in his chatroom. Sometimes RacerX IS a civ, so it's cool. Bit sometimes he isn't and he gets away with it ALOT. It happens all the time. I have been RacerX; you have never done that? Ever?

Epignosis wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I know you're disingenuous on purpose a lot as a civ, Epi, and that's what makes it so hard to read you, but I need to hear something that strikes me as a genuine civ-Epi thought. That's all I'm trying to get at.

Then I guess you will just have to vote me.

Oh wait.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I know you're disingenuous on purpose a lot as a civ, Epi, and that's what makes it so hard to read you, but I need to hear something that strikes me as a genuine civ-Epi thought. That's all I'm trying to get at.

Then I guess you will just have to vote me.

Oh wait.

For those of us who haven't voted for you, but might be considering it. could you at least pretend to put some effort forward?

No. Those who will vote me have already made up their minds. I plan on taking tomorrow off. I may post, but I may not.

Epignosis wrote:*now

thellama73 wrote:*when it BECAME apparent.

It's my job too, DH.