The Syndicate

Tomorrow I will be posting my thoughts on everyone, but I'm way too tired tonight.

Epignosis wrote:I also predict that the detectives will lose.

Well thank Christ you're doing everything you can to prevent that.

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I also predict that the detectives will lose.
Well thank Christ you're doing everything you can to prevent that.
I have been trying, but (no thanks to you either) I am a suspect.

Catching Kira is luck-based. Lots of people don't want to act like it is but it is.

Good luck catching Kira.

Everyone is a suspect.

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I also predict that the detectives will lose.
Well thank Christ you're doing everything you can to prevent that.
I have been trying, but (no thanks to you either) I am a suspect.

Catching Kira is luck-based. Lots of people don't want to act like it is but it is.

Good luck catching Kira.
Everyone is a suspect.
Yes...and?

"I am a suspect" is therefore not an excuse for anything.

As a side note, We are at best looking at 45% of players who have a vested public interest in not lynching detectives. Thats *best* case scenario.

Catching Kira is luck-based. Lots of people don't want to act like it is but it is.

FZ. wrote:By the way, DH said he was going back to being vocal and "leading" us like we obviously need, but I don't see anything worth while from him.

What do you mean? I'm in the process of collecting my thoughts literally as I type this. I haven't voted yet.

Where has it been definitively stated that LC was a Yotsuba?

Epignosis wrote:I see there is a theory that I have the Shinigami eyes and that I checked LC, learned that he was Yotsuba, and then killed him

Point out where you saw this theory because I would very much like to see it.

Epignosis wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:No one said you took the Eye deal... That's definitely a good way to test for it though.
No? Then what was your purpose with these posts?

Turnip Head wrote:
Zomberella12 wrote:How does the Kira find out our names anyway. Maybe we could figure it out using the LC k.
I do think it's interesting that LC died right after Epi identified him as Yotsuba. Given how the Shinigami Eye Deal works, I wonder if writing someone's name in the notebook requires that you also know the target's allegiance.

Turnip Head wrote:Just like I think it's possible that Epi is Kira, figured out LC's role, and killed him regardless of his role.

Ah there it is. Apologies for missing it, I've completely discounted TH's posts as being trollbait.

Alright so this is not going to be a quote-pulling post, rather just my thoughts on each player as I read through their posts. Lets get started. *Editors Note: I realized I was gonna have to make multiple posts, so I covered what was on my mind right now in this post and will do the others later. The numbers are off because I copy/pasted from the front page, numbered those, and cut out the ones I'm covering later.*

1. AceofSpaces - I appreciate the effort he's put into the game up until now. Even if he was wrong about Trice, at least he put himself out there and went guns blazing for his suspect. I do want to point out something that has caught my eye reading back on him. Early on Day 1 he expressed a suspicion of Made, that seems to have gotten lost in the trice discussion. I am wondering where Ace stands on Made now? Made is not even in his "here are my thoughts" post after the Trice lynch.

2. Bass_the_Clever - *Very* blendy and sketchy. Not really putting forth anything that hasn't already been put forth. His suspicions are difficult to nail down, as most of his posts are "I don't know what to think about this" or something similar.

3. bea - Very friendly and blendy initially. In my experience, bea often posts big posts without saying much, or by repeating basically the same idea over and over. I am curious to hear from bea how she went from thinking FZ.'s case was a "no u" to it making bea feel better about FZ. Because that to me is a bit sketchy.

8. DisgruntledPorcupine - Typical non-factor play style from DP. I could spend a whole post getting mad about it but I will not.

10. Epignosis - His recent behavior is certainly suspect. Overall it feels like, to me, he's spending a majority of his time chastising people instead of looking for Kiras as he has repeatedly said we need to do. For someone who is concerned with turning the focus away from the Yotsuba, he is certainly not shy about reminding us about the Yotsuba every other post. Also, his crybaby fit last night made me feel even worse about him. I didn't realize Eloh was serious when she was talking about cutting his balls off.

22. Turnip Head - Almost as much of a non factor as DP. I will not be considering anything TH brings to the table as legitimate, as I think its pretty obvious he's just fishing for a reaction.

Turnip Head wrote:Is fishing for reactions a bad thing, DharmaHelper?

Its not a fantastic thing. You obviously are unconcerned with legitimate discussion, so I am unconcerned with any discussion you are concerned with,

bea wrote:awe - I wasn't even gone that long and I was missed. *feels the love* It warms my heart it does.

Just weird scheduling cause me to drop off there yesterday. Stayed up far to late Sat night (6 am) in an attempt to try to figure out how to ninja my hubby's up coming birthday. (Still not very far along on that front sadly ) - Went to bed - woke up in time to make it to work at 4 - closed - came home ate dinner and bed. Just now getting moving and getting some coffee in me.

DH - I said FZ's case felt kinda like a No U as I was reacting to it yes. And yes, it oddly did kinda help ease my feelings toward her. I expected her to bite back and she did. I would have been sketched out if she just sorta blew it off. Does that make more sense? Also my bad feelings about her eased as we talked through out the day more. I wouldn't say she's in my super trust list. I don't think anyone is there yet. But I don't necessicarly think she has earned my vote again either. Does that make more sense?

Let's say it does.

You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P
Why didn't you vote Zomberella?

*Something about Yotsuba being an independent team*

*Artificial indignation*

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P
Yes. I am disinterested. I've done what I could, but all it turns into is "stuff to use against Epi later." I am voting Snowman and will allow the rest of the voters to decide if they want me around or not. I'm tired.

zeek wrote:Very convincing case, MM, I hadn't put together all those inconsistencies from Epi. Although I'm not sure on you, your points are persuasive. I may vote Epi if he convince me otherwise.

I really don't know what to make of all the strange behaviour in this game tbh, feels like it's going to be quite a random game.
Go for it zeek. I didn't even read MM's case on me and don't plan to post any manner of defense. I'm the easy choice today and I'm okay with that. If you're a detective though, lynching me won't help you.

If you're ready to quit at Day 3 then I am ready to help you.

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:I feel that too, but you can't ignore the fact that he hasn't followed any of his suspicions
On Day 1, I wasn't going to throw my vote away. On Day 2, I made up my mind at the last second to try to save bwt, because I thought the lynch on him was bullshit, especially supported by some of the "let them defend themselves first" mindset. Snowman had a chance and did not, but poor bwt just came home to find out he was lynched. Bullshit.

If any of you do decide to follow DharmaHelper's vote, I want you to keep in mind a few things. First, he and I argued a bit about accountability, and I argued that some people would try to dodge accountability for their vote. DH said that everyone would be accountable for their votes. However, DH framed it so that anything I did could result in him voting for me (if I voted Russ on Day 1, I was just trying to keep my hands clean, but if I didn't vote Russ, then I wasn't following through on my suspicion). Now he says that he's okay voting me even if I'm not bad because I'm dead weight. I don't get offended by things people say, but that stung a little.

DharmaHelper has freed himself of any responsibility voting for me. He doesn't care if I'm Kira. He just wants me gone. Anyway, if your rationale for voting me is that I'm "dead weight," then what is stopping you from voting Snowman? If I get lynched instead of him, then that means someone who really is not contributing gets another pass, and my game will be over. I think that sucks.

Well that's just manipulative.

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:I feel that too, but you can't ignore the fact that he hasn't followed any of his suspicions
On Day 1, I wasn't going to throw my vote away. On Day 2, I made up my mind at the last second to try to save bwt, because I thought the lynch on him was bullshit, especially supported by some of the "let them defend themselves first" mindset. Snowman had a chance and did not, but poor bwt just came home to find out he was lynched. Bullshit.

If any of you do decide to follow DharmaHelper's vote, I want you to keep in mind a few things. First, he and I argued a bit about accountability, and I argued that some people would try to dodge accountability for their vote. DH said that everyone would be accountable for their votes. However, DH framed it so that anything I did could result in him voting for me (if I voted Russ on Day 1, I was just trying to keep my hands clean, but if I didn't vote Russ, then I wasn't following through on my suspicion). Now he says that he's okay voting me even if I'm not bad because I'm dead weight. I don't get offended by things people say, but that stung a little.

DharmaHelper has freed himself of any responsibility voting for me. He doesn't care if I'm Kira. He just wants me gone. Anyway, if your rationale for voting me is that I'm "dead weight," then what is stopping you from voting Snowman? If I get lynched instead of him, then that means someone who really is not contributing gets another pass, and my game will be over. I think that sucks.

Had you actually voted for Russ (or anyone you said you were going to vote for) I would have felt differently about you. It would have been a shit vote, but you would have stuck to your guns, so I couldn't fault you for that.

And for the record, I'm OK with voting for you because I think you're bad. If I'm wrong, I won't be that torn up about it because you have contributed absolutely zero to the civ cause. If anything, you have served as a distraction, and a detriment. You have added absolutely nothing of value. All you're doing is complaining and splitting hairs about Yotsuba. Nobody cares. Get over it. If you are a civ, which is significantly unlikely, you should start acting like it.

Epignosis wrote:I'm not going to argue with you DH. You're just looking for excuses so you don't have to take responsibility for not finding Kira. I get it.

I've added absolutely nothing of value. Got it. Thanks.

I take 100% responsibility for my vote. If only everyone were so inclined.

I don't like seeing Epi mope around like a sick puppy. Best case scenario, this is an act designed by a baddie to illicit a reaction, that ended up going too far in the opposite direction.

If he is genuinely a civvie, I'm trying to light a fire under his ass so I can see that. But all I'm seeing is a disinterested, grumpy Epi. If he does genuinely think things are hopeless for him or for the civs, laying down and taking it is not the way I'd expect him to go about things.

Who do you guys think is going to get killed after the lynch?

Zomberella12 wrote:@All - Again, I get that you might not see what I see in Snowman's post. I totally get that. But asking me to explain over and over again is not going to help you see what I see. You either trust me or you don't. You either think that Snowman is a detective that is helping to search for Kira or you don't. He's not posting because be knows I'm on to something and doesn't want to slip up and give me more ammo. You will see. That is the only assurance I can give. I know it's not hugely convincing, but that's what I've got.

I would be very interested to see the results of a Snowman Lynch.

This is a question that comes up frequently in situations such as this and I want to ask Zomberella:

You seem perfectly content to reap the rewards if Snowman is bad. Would you shoulder the blame if Snowman is good?

Turnip Head wrote:How do you kill a shinigami, Epi?

With the magic words: Notice me, senpai.

bea wrote:Svs - he's done it too - but that Blaime can be spread far and wide amongst the what did you call it like day one "alpha male syndrome "?

Bullz was pretty reasonable in his point about mm's case being pate and post vote in an unchangeable vote game.

Dh's posts to Epi read very pot and kettle to me ATM. Between the two I'm reading Epi as more genuine.

Have I struck you as the sort to take my ball and go home?

I imagine this is what being high feels like.

They're gonna bang.

bea wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
bea wrote:Svs - he's done it too - but that Blaime can be spread far and wide amongst the what did you call it like day one "alpha male syndrome "?

Bullz was pretty reasonable in his point about mm's case being pate and post vote in an unchangeable vote game.

Dh's posts to Epi read very pot and kettle to me ATM. Between the two I'm reading Epi as more genuine.
Have I struck you as the sort to take my ball and go home?
DH - that was not what I was saying and you know it.

SVS was refering to epi's hair splitting - which yes - I think you, TH, Epi, llama and boo have all done in equal measure. You all have spent a decent amount of time hair splitting with each other and not finding Kira's - so from any of you - slamming Epi for not calling out Kira's as a reason why he's a Kira feels very pot/kettle to me.

Apart from the fact that I've brought a case on Zomberella out, actively discussed suspects, etc, I agree with you.

I'm gonna catch up now, but from the looks of things Epi finally had a psychotic break?

FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:This is a question that comes up frequently in situations such as this and I want to ask Zomberella:

You seem perfectly content to reap the rewards if Snowman is bad. Would you shoulder the blame if Snowman is good?
How does one really shoulder the blame? Would you want to lynch her if he comes out good? That would only help if she's bad. Not so much if she isn't. In any case, I said I wish BWT was a Kira or at least a Kira supporter, and that I wish I could call that lynch a good one. I settled for a "no civvie" which was what we lynched the day before.

Accountability is accountability. Would it not reflect poorly on her civvieness if she lead a lynch on her civvie husband? One whom she confesses is a pyschologist and able to contribute towards finding not only baddies, but (if she herself is a baddie) spotting her tells and such?

I have to be honest, I think I know the gist of Epi's megapost before having read it all. Childish attempt to manipulate (what looks like) a majority of my posts to fit his warped ideals of what is "pro-detective". I'm not saying I won't read it all in fairness to the poor guy, but I'm not taking a lick of it seriously.

zeek wrote:Woah I agree Epi's conclusion came first, but I can understand that because he probably set out to prove a point. DH has been one of his biggest critics. That said, I'm still on the fence with Epi. He's made some good points but it can also be read as the largest NO U in Mafia history. I'm glad he's playing ball a bit more though, even if he's not properly defending himself.

I don't know where it vote today. I'm curious about Zomberella and she could get my vote. Snowman and TH are also up there, with MM in the mix as well.

linki - DH, that's quite dismissive

Yes you're correct. I am dismissing Epi's bullshit tantrum. Vote for me if you think that makes me suspect :P

For the sake of argument:

Both options lead to lynch manipulation, and that is inherently anti-detective.

A majority of the lynch options would have lead to lynch manipulation. That was the whole point. L/Light option would have tilted some of that manipulation into the civ's favor. Why am I still arguing this with you?

This option gives Light a say in whose vote counts and whose doesn't. That is anti-detective.

It does the same for L.

The secret ballot lynch removes information from the thread, but this criticism is not applied to the L/Light option, which would do more than that- it would give a killer heavy influence over the lynches.

Because L/Light *ADDS* information to the thread. It shows us what L and Light are thinking, who they trust, who they don't trust, etc.

It is never made clear how the L / Light option would give detectives the idea, and it acknowledges that Light could sway the lynches.

Since the L/Light option lost, and it would be pointless of me to keep this close to my chest any more, I was hoping to use the lynches to determine the identities of Lights Sympathizers, since they would be the most likely targets of his vote manipulation. From there, I was hoping to determine who Light was.

I'm sure if I power through the rest of Epi's rainbow trail I'll be making much the same comments.

FZ. wrote:Epig, I actually read 90% of this. Sadly, I agreed with almost nothing. Maybe it's me, but I don't go and read all the details of the roles, but it doesn't make me a baddie, so I disagree with that. I can agree that he wasn't been too nice, but I can see his point when he's saying that he hoped that if you were a civ, it would make you wake up and do what needs to be done. I'm really trying to view this with an open mind.

I do want to ask you, you say you don't think he's a detective, but you keep saying that non Kiras are sort of potential civvies as well, so would you want to lynch him?

DharmaHelper wrote:
FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:This is a question that comes up frequently in situations such as this and I want to ask Zomberella:

You seem perfectly content to reap the rewards if Snowman is bad. Would you shoulder the blame if Snowman is good?
How does one really shoulder the blame? Would you want to lynch her if he comes out good? That would only help if she's bad. Not so much if she isn't. In any case, I said I wish BWT was a Kira or at least a Kira supporter, and that I wish I could call that lynch a good one. I settled for a "no civvie" which was what we lynched the day before.
Accountability is accountability. Would it not reflect poorly on her civvieness if she lead a lynch on her civvie husband? One whom she confesses is a pyschologist and able to contribute towards finding not only baddies, but (if she herself is a baddie) spotting her tells and such?
you never, as a civ, lynched a civ, right? Did you feel bad? I hope you did. Does it make you a baddie? I wish it did, because then the civvies wouldn't lose so much. The thing is, unlike other lynches, she's asking us to trust her on this without really giving a solid reason we can all understand. It boils down to her gut, or her conniving skills. Which is it? I have no idea. At this point, I feel it's the former.

I'm going out. I'll be back for a few minutes later, and I'll decide on my vote then. I guess it's still between those two

linki: agree with Zeek and TH...and DH.

Lemme back up because I think you're misunderstanding me. Whether or not Snow flips civ has no bearing on whether or not I think Zomberella is a civ. You're right, civs lynch civs all the time. I've done so. What I'm saying is that Zomberella's certainty is a two way street. On the one hand, she expects a ticker tape parade if Snow is a mafia. But If Snow is civ, it SHOULD be taken into account that Zomberella pushed so hard to lynch someone who could possibily identify her baddie game.

Is it the nail in the coffin, no. Is it possible evidence? Yes.

Alright I honestly tried to read Epi's posts but every single point he's made is just pouting, nit-picking, opinionated, manipulative crap and I'd get tired of saying "No this is wrong, and you know this is wrong" or "No that is not what I said and you know that is not what I said."

I made it about 1 and a quarter way through before I realized I was making myself angry.

I fucking knew I should have stayed retired. At least I don't have to worry about coming back to vote. See you guys after the lynch.

RIP SVS

@MP if someone votes before they are killed does their vote count?

Now I'm gone for real.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The majority of your points I do not agree with Epi. A few I do though, which I will address.

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Gonna take a page out of Epi's book *Warning: Big post*

Using the system we have now of 27 Players, and list randomizer from Random.org

L's list will have to have 13 People on it, as will Light's. Lets assume for the sake of argument, that L and Light both put themselves on their respective lists. Since all we know for sure is that Light has BTSC with Ryuk, lets assume he puts Ryuk on his list. I will use Blue for L and Red For Light:

Right now:

L's List:
L

Light/Kira's List:
Light
Ryuk

Completely Randomizing L's list, this is the first (Blind) option I got, after having put every role in a radomizer in the order they are on the front page:

Sidoh (Independant)
Takahashi (Mafia 2)
Penber (Civvie)
Mogi (Civvie)
Watari (Civie)
Higuchi (Mafia 2)
Matsuda (Civvie)
Ide (Civvie)
Demegawa (Mafia 1)
Mido (Mafia 2)
Misora (Civvie)
Mikami (Mafia 1)
L(Civvie)

So, completely randomly, L's list Includes:
Civilians (Including L) 8
Mafia 1 (Light's Team) 2
Mafia 2 (Yotsuba) 3

I want to stress that this is completely randomly, and does not take into account anything other than cold numbers.

Light's List:
Sidoh (Indie)
Mido (Mafia 2)
Matsuda (Civvie)
Light (Mafia 1)
Mikami (Mafia 1)
Ryuk (Mafia 1)
Yagami (Civvie)
Misora (Civvie)
Ooi (Mafia 2)
Near (Civvie)
Shimura (Mafia 2)
Takahashi (Mafia 2)

Lights list includes:
Civilians - 4
Mafia 1 - 3
Mafia 2 - 3
Indies - 1

The following appear on both lists and therefore have a buffed vote:
Sidoh (Independent)
Mido (Mafia 2)
Matsuda (Civ)
Mikami (Mafia 1)
Misora (Civ)
Takahashi (Mafia 2)

The following appear on neither list and therefore do not have a vote:
Aizawa (Civ)
Ukita (Civ)
Mello (Civ)
Namikawa (Mafia 2)
Kida (Mafia 2)
Amane (Mafia 1)
Rem (Mafia 1)
Takada (Mafia 1)

Total of:
Civilians - 3
Mafia 1 - 3
Mafia 2 - 2

Which means the votes that would count on this theoretical day:
Sidoh (Independant) - Buffed
Takahashi (Mafia 2) - 5 Buffed
Penber (Civvie) - Normal
Mogi (Civvie) - Normal
Watari (Civie)- Normal
Higuchi (Mafia 2) - Normal
Matsuda (Civvie) - Buffed
Ide (Civvie) - Normal
Demegawa (Mafia 1) - Normal
Mido (Mafia 2) - Buffed
Misora (Civvie) - Buffed
Mikami (Mafia 1) - Buffed
L(Civvie) - Normal
Light (Mafia 1) - Normal
Ryuk (Mafia 1) - Normal
Yagami (Civvie) - Normal
Ooi (Mafia 2) - Normal
Near (Civvie) - Normal
Shimura (Mafia 2) - Normal

For a Grand total of:
Civilian Votes: 9 total (2 Buffed 7 Normal)
Mafia 1 Votes: 4 total (1 Buffed 3 Normal)
Mafia 2 Votes: 5 total (1 Buffed 4 Normal)
Indie Votes: 1 total (1 Buffed)

19 of 27 players have a vote that is at least Normal. Rougly 70% of the active players. Of those, 47% are civ, 21% are on Lights team, and 26% are on the Yotsuba team. Civvies have the majority vote AND the majority of buffs. This is not as advantageous for Light as it initially seems.

Admittedly this is ONE scenario, and I'm sure there are variables I did not account for, but as you can hopefully see its not as one-sided as you'd think.

DharmaHelper wrote:EBWOP: *JUST* realized Mikami was the 13th pick on L's list, since L had to include himself, so take that into account. Sorry. :P

DharmaHelper wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:EBWOP: *JUST* realized Mikami was the 13th pick on L's list, since L had to include himself, so take that into account. Sorry. :P
Meaning Lights list should have 13 not 12 (and Penber was the 13th Light pick)

So again, not as mafia-heavy as you'd think.
In contrast to my post, which came from a gamemaker's perspective, DharmaHelper opted to give ONE random example for the L / Light lynch option that was supposed to demonstrate that that option was good for civilians. It doesn't take a mathematician to note the flaws in this. I'm a gambler, so these flaws were apparent. One random example could show that I could make a fortune in a casino. However, that isn't sound long-range planning. Had DharmaHelper shown, say, 100 random examples, then a clearer picture could have been formed.
Actually, it did take a mathematician to note these flaws. I don't recall anyone else calling him out for this post aside from this person.

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:AceofSpaces - Not seeing him as bad atm
Bass_the_Clever - Not willing to vote for him right now, but not willing to give him a pass overall.
bea - Nothing stands out
birdwithteeth11 - Nothing stands out
Black Rock - Nothing stands out
boo - Not seeing him as bad.
Boomslang - Commenting mostly on other suspicions/discussions...
DharmaHelper - Definitely civ.
DisgruntledPorcupine - Who?
Elohcin - Nothing pops out.
Epignosis - Slowly creeping up my list.
FZ. - No read.
juliets - No read.
Long Con - No Read.
Made - No Read.
Matahari - Very good at playing low key and clueless when the reality is the opposite.
Metalmarsh89 - No read.
Ricochet - Leaning civ
Roxy - No read.
Russtifinko - No write.
S~V~S - I don't know yet.
Snowman - No read
Spacedaisy - Leaning civ
thellama73 - Who?
triceratopzeuhl - Suspect.
Turnip Head -
Zomberella12 - Found some of her early posts suspect. Not willing to give her a pass for playing the "I'm new here" card.

Epi can you explain to me why your suspicion of Russ is 100% based on the lore of Death Note, and you were ready to lynch Rico for making lore-based assumptions regarding L/Watari?
This is hyperbole, one of DH's most relied upon tactics. I hope you recognize it. I was never "ready to lynch" Ricochet. I engaged him during Day 0 and found better suspects on Day 1. There is nothing wrong with that. Another Mafia tactic is making people feel like they have to vote the way they are leaning at one point even if new information comes to light. This is inconsistent because DharmaHelper has expressed more than one suspect.
Yes. Your calling of this list (and TH's lists) as distracting are something I can agree upon.

Epignosis wrote:Vote early and answer questions later.

DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

DharmaHelper wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

DharmaHelper wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

DharmaHelper wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?
What does this have to do with the game? Do baddies change avatars frequently?
X Kira must adhere to a strict, daily schedule.

DharmaHelper wrote:Well that's all I wanted to know.
DharmaHelper had already voted. Now he turns everyone's attention back to Trice, a detective (for a lore-based reason). If you can keep your man from getting lynched, then you can avoid accountability. I said this on Day 0.
Thank you for bringing this one up.

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
boo wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I'm satisfied. What about you guys?
If it's such an obvious mechanic as Epi is making it sound like, when he's 7 episodes in, why did no one who has seen all of it not already mentioned it as a mechanic we should be worried about, and DH, who has seen it was still suspicious of Epi (at least before he gave the explanation). So either it's an elaborate set up by everyone who knows the theme to get Epi killed, or it's a minor thing and it's still weird Epi thinks it is so obvious it's a game mechanic and it's weird he just happened to bring it up before any non-baddie could know it was in the game with certainty.
In all fairness, I was aware of the Shinigami Eyes as they relate to the show and silently considered they could play a part in the game. I just felt like it would be more appropriate to wait until more information presented itself before I added my two cents.
If you are a detective with this knowledge, then why not come out with it sooner? Doesn't seem very civilian-friendly to me.
Covering his tracks.

Addendum. This read to me like the biggest no u I've ever seen. That is an overgeneralization, yes. You brought forth some good points (very good ones), but I found much of this case to be borderline insulting and exhaustively so. You nitpicked every single post DH has made from what I can see. Even anything productive DH had to offer produced a some backlash from you Epi. I will agree that DH has done much of the same throughout this game, so you aren't traveling a one-way street. I dunno how you can accuse him of being dismissive with a dismissive comment. But DH is guilty too. He gone poked the "Epi-bear" and here we are.

Another question. What are the odds, in your opinion, that DH is Kira?

1. I showed one of several (probably several thousand) options that were civ friendly. Of course, several thousand options are also mafia friendly. My point was to show that it could be done. Doesn't matter though.

2. I made that list once in order to show my thoughts on everyone. Sorry if that distracted you.

3. I thought it could be possible Trices avatar switching was Kira X related but clearly I was wrong.

4. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and not come to Epi's defense regarding the Eye deal. That would have been less suspicious and according to Epi, detective-like behavior. I didn't mention the Eye Deal simply because I had no idea if it was actually in the game, and I wanted to keep my thoughts about it to myself until necessary.

And if you don't believe that DH has painted a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" picture, his reaction to my latest post demonstrates it. If I "don't," it's "come on son" and "get over it" and "you're a sad puppy." If I "do," it's "childish" and a "bullshit tantrum."

I dont want to play this game anymore.

FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:Epig, I actually read 90% of this. Sadly, I agreed with almost nothing. Maybe it's me, but I don't go and read all the details of the roles, but it doesn't make me a baddie, so I disagree with that. I can agree that he wasn't been too nice, but I can see his point when he's saying that he hoped that if you were a civ, it would make you wake up and do what needs to be done. I'm really trying to view this with an open mind.

I do want to ask you, you say you don't think he's a detective, but you keep saying that non Kiras are sort of potential civvies as well, so would you want to lynch him?
I didn't say that not reading the roles makes someone bad- I said that not reading the roles while pushing for a dangerous Day 0 option is anti-detective.

Given the unusual setup, FZ., I have had to take a different approach (mentally, not in the thread) in how to determine who is bad. I won't go into details, but it has been an interesting change of pace. For example, we're up against what is not traditionally a team, but a quartet of serial killers. That drives things hard into luck territory. There are a few people in this who have serial killer tells. However, I have not seen any of those.

For another example, unlike a typical Mafia with maybe a couple of secrets, this is rife with them, and these secrets are being leaked. One thing I've thought of is this: Now that we know a vote cast by a Kira victim will count that Day, what is to be made of the early voters?

Just something to think about. In regards to your question, I don't know. While I do not believe he is a detective, I also do not believe he is Yotsuba. At the same time, I don't believe he is doing the killing. However, there is value in lynching the "supporting cast" if only to remove their vote from the pool and remove their power from play. I would have no qualms lynching DharmaHelper.
I have actually been thinking about the SK thing myself, and was wondering whether the Kiras themselves actually care if all the rest die or not. Maybe in order to survive until the end, it's better for them to just help lynch the other Kiras and look better to all the rest. If that's the case, maybe we should actually be looking at the most aggressive or "case makers" (not including me :P ). I'm just not sure what is the best way to approach this game

linki: I have to side with DH on this, Epi. I don't think he's done anything that is out of the realm of a normal mafia game, and I feel like you're making it personal

I meant that literally. If MP wasn't my Funny or Die blood brother, and I hadn't had my reputation of rarely subbing out of games, and I didn't like Death Note as much, I'd be gone by now. Call it what you want considering my thoughts when Epi was all "fuck this noise", but I honestly can't take it. Misery loves company, eh?

Epignosis wrote:I just don't understand how you can go from this:

DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P
Yes. I am disinterested. I've done what I could, but all it turns into is "stuff to use against Epi later." I am voting Snowman and will allow the rest of the voters to decide if they want me around or not. I'm tired.

zeek wrote:Very convincing case, MM, I hadn't put together all those inconsistencies from Epi. Although I'm not sure on you, your points are persuasive. I may vote Epi if he convince me otherwise.

I really don't know what to make of all the strange behaviour in this game tbh, feels like it's going to be quite a random game.
Go for it zeek. I didn't even read MM's case on me and don't plan to post any manner of defense. I'm the easy choice today and I'm okay with that. If you're a detective though, lynching me won't help you.
If you're ready to quit at Day 3 then I am ready to help you.
To this:

DharmaHelper wrote:
And if you don't believe that DH has painted a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" picture, his reaction to my latest post demonstrates it. If I "don't," it's "come on son" and "get over it" and "you're a sad puppy." If I "do," it's "childish" and a "bullshit tantrum."
I dont want to play this game anymore.
I'll leave you alone if you want though. I don't want to upset you.

It would definitely take a lot to go from one extreme to another, I agree. At least 240,000 characters.

204k not 240k.

Who was it that said Light could exert some level of mind control over his victims? I assume that is what happened to SVS.

FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Who was it that said Light could exert some level of mind control over his victims? I assume that is what happened to SVS.
What do you mean?

And any thoughts about what I said regarding the serial killer issue?

If I remember rightly in the show Light could control the people he killed leading up to their death (getting them to mail stuff before they die, or something). Somebody already brought this up but I can't remember who. Let me go back and re-read your Serial killer thoughts so I have an opinion.

FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:Epig, I actually read 90% of this. Sadly, I agreed with almost nothing. Maybe it's me, but I don't go and read all the details of the roles, but it doesn't make me a baddie, so I disagree with that. I can agree that he wasn't been too nice, but I can see his point when he's saying that he hoped that if you were a civ, it would make you wake up and do what needs to be done. I'm really trying to view this with an open mind.

I do want to ask you, you say you don't think he's a detective, but you keep saying that non Kiras are sort of potential civvies as well, so would you want to lynch him?
I didn't say that not reading the roles makes someone bad- I said that not reading the roles while pushing for a dangerous Day 0 option is anti-detective.

Given the unusual setup, FZ., I have had to take a different approach (mentally, not in the thread) in how to determine who is bad. I won't go into details, but it has been an interesting change of pace. For example, we're up against what is not traditionally a team, but a quartet of serial killers. That drives things hard into luck territory. There are a few people in this who have serial killer tells. However, I have not seen any of those.

For another example, unlike a typical Mafia with maybe a couple of secrets, this is rife with them, and these secrets are being leaked. One thing I've thought of is this: Now that we know a vote cast by a Kira victim will count that Day, what is to be made of the early voters?

Just something to think about. In regards to your question, I don't know. While I do not believe he is a detective, I also do not believe he is Yotsuba. At the same time, I don't believe he is doing the killing. However, there is value in lynching the "supporting cast" if only to remove their vote from the pool and remove their power from play. I would have no qualms lynching DharmaHelper.
I have actually been thinking about the SK thing myself, and was wondering whether the Kiras themselves actually care if all the rest die or not. Maybe in order to survive until the end, it's better for them to just help lynch the other Kiras and look better to all the rest. If that's the case, maybe we should actually be looking at the most aggressive or "case makers" (not including me :P ). I'm just not sure what is the best way to approach this game

linki: I have to side with DH on this, Epi. I don't think he's done anything that is out of the realm of a normal mafia game, and I feel like you're making it personal

I agree as it relates to the Yotsuba Kira. He is the one I would expect to want the others dead. But Light/X Kira/Misa I would think would want to worth together and cooperate.

Work* together.

Yeah I think SVS's quote was Light's doing. When she said "TH is killing me ARRGHHH" or whatever it was.

Also, excepting the Yotsuba Kira, the other Kiras are all on the same team (Light Sympathizers) and therefore share a win condition, and some of their secrets rely on/help each other.

FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Yeah I think SVS's quote was Light's doing. When she said "TH is killing me ARRGHHH" or whatever it was.

Also, excepting the Yotsuba Kira, the other Kiras are all on the same team (Light Sympathizers) and therefore share a win condition, and some of their secrets rely on/help each other.
Yeah, but if most don't know who is who, then they don't have to defend them, and even more so, since they don't know if the person they lynch is good or bad, might as well just vote for the person they think is bad. At least that way they seem honest with their suspicions.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. No that my vote seems to matter anyway, but I'm voting for Snowman and hope that he turns out bad

linki: I thought that's what the "I don't want to play this any more" was supposed to convey.It bothers me if it ruins the fun for another player. Other than that, I'm good.

Good night

Thats true for every sympathizer/Yotsuba though, not just the Kiras.

I think at least to start off with it will be really hard to tie people to being baddies/teammates because of the lack of BTSC. But that will get easier as time goes on. Initially, baddies will be going after baddies accidentally much more frequently. What would be interesting for example would be if someone has a suspect that they drop suddenly, given the nature of BTSC.

Yay we got one.

These results make me feel much worse about Snowman.

I got a bit of flak for even mentioning the Shinigami eyes. However, consider this: Does DharmaHelper know the show? If he does, then his "If I remember rightly from the show" comment is just to make it seem like this knowledge isn't a Google away. He is bullshitting you, folks. He is feigning ignorance of things he knows. And that's a fact.

Quite the conspiracy you've uncovered there Epi. I saw Death Note in its entirety years ago. I don't feel like googling every little detail

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