The Syndicate

rabbit8 wrote:Golden, getting the Will and saying whats on it to have it stolen and confirmed does what? Gets he believed shes telling the truth about the will. That sir, is a purpose in itself. Think. Or you got other agendas?

I don't understand this, could you rephrase?

As for 'who honestly believes zombs is a civvie'.

Well I honestly do. To me, I do not come to the same conclusion you do. I come to a different one, as the most likely answer. I don't rule out she could be bad, but I just genuinely think there is another explanation I find more compelling.

Long Con wrote:He wants me to play Epig's mindgame first.

I want you to play epi's mindgame, please...

I shouldn't have to be the only one whose played.

Here is something for you, though, LC. I said, on day one, that we should be very wary of voting for self-voters, because they might be the millionaire and fishing for votes to make them more powerful. Why didn't you take that into account?

At RM, everyone shut up at night!

Except me. I never shut up. Is that why I always get nightkilled?

Lol, rabbit, I guess we are just seeing it a different way. You could be right, I could be right. It's just a gut feel for me.

And I see your point on SVS, although I still don't think she is bad. I'm just not seeing it, SVS is seeming very logical to me... I may not always agree with her (certainly I tried to convince her that bf wasn't bad), but nothing has struck me as not being genuine. If you are right about zombs and SVS, then :bowdowntorabbit:

rabbit8 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

Rabbit, how many times do I have to tell you there is no such thing as civvie behaviour?

Long Con wrote:Epig knows all this already, and lied about not recalling me doing it before. I don't know what his angle is, or why he'd lie about it, but the fact that he lied about it makes me wary of responding the way he obviously wants me to.

I have to admit, although I fall well short of thinking that epi 'lied' about this... my recollection was that you did vote MM on day one in Roger Rabbit, so I am interested to know what epi meant when he said 'it was not exactly the same'.

I'm getting the hang of him now, and I'm assuming what he meant was something like 'it was very similar, but I have a difference in mind'... so... want to hear Epi's response now that you have given yours.

rabbit8 wrote:I'm trying to see the game as you and BF, Golden. How am I doing?

Pretty good, actually. But, now you have to pick a best mafia bud...

Long Con wrote:

Golden wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

Rabbit, how many times do I have to tell you there is no such thing as civvie behaviour?

Is there such a thing as baddie behaviour?

Did you read day one, by chance?

Zombs - I get the paranoia, but I'm always going to stand up for who I think is civ and go after those I think are bad. It's just the way I play.

But all I'm actually doing, right now, is trying to ensure people keep an open mind. I don't know you are good, but I certainly don't think it is 'obvious' or 'clear' that you must be bad.

I would like to say at this juncture, that when I asked LC if he had read day one, I was not getting in his face.

I'm back.

Sorry MM. I was intending to come in and make an MM/LC case too, although I actually thought LC was the better bet - I thought he could just as easily be intending to set MM up as actually be his teammate. I put my vote on MM when I did because I did think there was a reasonable chance MM was the millionaire and I didn't want to risk that being true and him not being lynched. By the time you had enough votes that you were going to die, it became apparent from your conduct that you were civ, but it often does once people move from survival mode to just helping everyone as much as possible before they die.

FWIW, I have really enjoyed playing with you both games so far. I hope I get to play with you for longer sometime soon.

More to come - lots happened on day. I had lots of thoughts, it was very painful having to be quiet.

Well, JC, one thing I will say is I do not get the suspish of you at all and I'm kinda looking sideways at it.

I thought you have been very clear and consistent throughout. You voted MM on day one. You said you were hesitant to vote for him on day two because you didn't want to give him votes that didn't lynch him in case he was the millionaire. And then you voted him when it was clear he did get enough votes. I have to admit I have to go back and do a reread of exactly who was suspecting you on that.

Welcome back BR! Welcome DP and Bass. Sorry to see you go, Bea. I really thought you were thinking in this game so I was sad to see you go, but congrats on the promotion. I'm sorry that wolfy went but I doubt he will be back - it must have been too much reading for him. And sorry, MP, that you need a break but I know it comes to us all if there is one thing I wished I had been in the thread for it was to support MP through his read... I was around and really wanted to be able to post and encourage you. But I couldn't.

Thanks Canuck.

I am likely to be slightly vague until I do a read back today, because yesterday was one of the most exciting days of my entire life - my beloved NZ cricket team made their first ever world cup final. As the Black Caps go, so my mental health follows. I am very happy but also pretty much unable to focus on anything.

Canucklehead wrote:

Golden wrote:Thanks Canuck.

I am likely to be slightly vague until I do a read back today, because yesterday was one of the most exciting days of my entire life - my beloved NZ cricket team made their first ever world cup final. As the Black Caps go, so my mental health follows. I am very happy but also pretty much unable to focus on anything.

And what a match it was!! Thrilling. Elliott was electric

Canuck! Don't tell my wife, but I think I just fell in love with you!!! You know cricket!

I have been telling everyone who will listen for the last couple of years that they need Elliott in the team. A Wellingtonian being the man of the game I can't even. I think I'm tearing up!

Well, welcome to the game! It's a good time to be coming to it, last nights game was one of the best you could ever see. Special stuff.

OK, so now we need to pick another street.

I'm glad we didn't waste the Archer street opportunity (thanks LizKeen). No one was focussed on agreeing a question to ask the Chinese man, and I wasn't sure if we were going to get anything. Instead, I think we got something which sort of suggested that the celestials are as harmless as they look.

I'm gonna vote 22nd street again, since I think the police station might be a good place to get intel on the mafia.

I also note LizKeens ear horns told her we should avoid an easy lynch.

I have to say, I interpreted that as being a reference to either a) SVS (based on beas point at the start of the night that the will created a target on her back) or b) Zombs (because she really did seem like an easy target). They were the people who looked like easy lynches to me.

I'm not sure how the ear horns could warn against ANY easy lynch, since you never know what the town will do the next day and who might see a lynch train against them. So my assumption is that the person giving the message (be it player or host) had someone specific in mind they were looking to protect.

I don't really think llama is taking it personally.

And by the way, whoever missed bass subbing in (Canuck again?)... someone quoted llamas post saying BR was subbing in for bea the very post after, so for a while it took me a while to see where bass had subbed in to, so I don't blame you for missing it. It was actually a little visually confusing.

Lol SVS, I feel the same way you do. I'm not sure how to recap this thread, especially not without it sounding like its based on my own suspicions and not a recap.

Bass, and Sophie - what I would say is that so far this game appears to be a lot of tension and suspicions going back and forth between discrete people. There hasn't been a whole lot of fact or stuff to cling on to. I would summarise the key points as being.

1) Whoever holds the will when Zombs dies gets something that Zombs owns. Maybe it's a large sum of money or maybe it's a small sum of money or maybe it's her items that she holds. Based on what bf and SVS have had to say (and the fact they can't reproduce the wording of the will exactly) it's hard to tell exactly what they will get. I tend to think getting the items she holds makes more sense in the context of the game (but - thats me recapping with my own lens on). BF was lynched for revealing the purpose of the will and then told us the will was zombs will. Oh, another suspicion I personally have - I dunno that the will has been executed and I wouldn't be surprised if the lawyer has to execute it before it will actually function.

2) Lots of people seem to have taken a bit of heat, its hard for me to say who. In fact, it doesn't really seem like anyone has escaped the eye entirely.

3) There has been some talk about the items. I can't recap all of it. Ear horns seem to give info, bottle seems to curse people, I might have forgotten some stuff.

4) Can I suggest a good way to do a read back would be to pick out some specific people when you think they are noteworthy and think about their posts. That might be more enlightening than trying to read the thread wholesale.

5) One important thing. BR died. BR is now bea, not herself. That's kinda confusing, but true. I'm not sure how LC feels about it.

6) The celestials appear not to be a threat to the town.

Please feel free to add anything I've missed, people.

Oh, LC, you accused me of avoiding your question in the last night, and by the time I read it I was silenced.

You asked me 'is there any baddie behaviour'. The reason I responded to that with 'did you read day one' is because, well, I had already posted a whole lot of stuff about me thinking that epi was doing something that seemed anti-civilian to me and it lead to a whole spat with rabbit which didn't need to be repeated. You asked in response to me saying to RABBIT... who had just said to someone 'thats not civilian behaviour'... something like 'hey rabbit, theres no such thing as civilian behaviour'.

I would think that anyone who had actually read day one would know that this was me making a joke at rabbit's expense. Since obviously I had earlier been arguing that there was such a thing as anti-civilian behaviour and rabbit had said there was no such thing as civilian behaviour.

So, to be honest, you got my eye for that, because I think it was fairly hard to miss my spat with and vote for rabbit.

@JC - that was tongue in cheek. But I do think people not reading the thread properly need to know it happened.

I picked up on it rabbit. I just thought I'd dish some back.

Frankly, I thought that whole passage of time in there was rabbit and I having a whole lot of fun, and I couldn't really make head or tail of what LC was up to. If I had been able to speak yesterday, I definitely would have been building a case on LC. I think his votes for MM and his non-lynching of BR on day 1 are both conveniently long WIFOMs, frankly, and I'm not willing to buy either of them as fact.

Having said that, I don't know that I would ever NK bf on night one. Not unless there was a reason I really had to. And he's just my best mafia bud. So I do understand there is some legitimacy to that argument.

Aww for sophie.

Another thing I picked up on in day 1.

One thing some of you may not know about me - I studied performance music at university. I've lived in the world of classical music for most of my life. I know a lot of composers by sight.

None of them are Modest Mussorgsky... so how the heck did Epi know that??????? And also, why would Epi call his music that of a somnambulist? Some of his music is fantastic. Anyway, you might note Mussorgsky is one of the pictures that one of the mafia has put on their silencer role. If ever there was a piece of WIFOM, this is it. Epi's next line 'why would I draw attention to the fact I know the identity of one of the mafia pictures if I am mafia'???

Anyway, I found that curious indeed.

This is a masterpiece.

He brought the picture up... after the mafia had selected it as one of their portraits.

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:
Ivan Kossakoff - The Strangler - Can silence every night.

I love the irony in this. Dipsomaniac Modest Mussorgsky as the silencer.

This post is the one I'm referring to. Oh, he said dipsomaniac! Sorry epi, I take back what I said about you saying he was somnamublating.

And, mussorgsky is hardly obscure, but he isn't one you would normally recognise by sight. It's not like music classrooms have pictures of him, and if you learn instruments you might get a picture of the composer on their book, but Mussorgsky isn't exactly known for his solo works.

I'm not saying it makes Epi bad. I'm just saying bringing that picture up in that way is the ultimate wifom.

Epy, the -sky's are my favourites too. Or Russian composers generally. I had the fortune to play some Borodin recently, it was one of the more challenging works I'd played. The Russians know how to compose for percussionists.

Epi, your explanation does make sense at least in why you would be able to recognise him by sight.

You couldn't imply? I'm a percussionist.

My strength is tuned percussion. I like playing timpani, thats what I was playing in the Borodin last year.

Mind you, I don't exercise my percussion bones so often any more, so I'm not as good at it as I used to be.

@sophie - lol, don't worry. But come chat to me about classical music some time, and I will help you find your way to some neat composers and figure out what vibes you like best.

Ricochet wrote:

Golden wrote:

This is a masterpiece.

I can play this.

And to be pedantic, that's Ravel's orchestration of Mussorgsky's piano ouuouueuuuvre.

I can't play the youtubes at work, so I didn't check which version it was.

And I can also play it - provided I take one hand, and my sister takes the other. Lol!!! I should really practice it and learn how to do the whole thing myself.

Sophie wrote:sorry for all the offtopicism

Yeah, how will sophie ever catch up!

Rabbit, you have myopic focus, and you are beating a dead horse.

Your transition to playing a golden-like game is complete. Congrats!

Zombs, I have to say, I think you are playing... differently.

Differently to Death Note. Differently to RR too. So I dunno what it means. Perhaps it just means you still feel on the defensive from what happened on day 1.

Not sure why the case on TH. He has looked pretty genuine in his suspicions, to me. I had the sense that he really believed he had caught a baddie with MM. I don't really get that one. I don't think he and Epi have btsc, and certainly not baddie btsc (why would they betray it by both going after MM so hard together?)

Are you allowed to speak more about how your actions were limited? Or do you think this is not a good idea.

I'm always interested, Epi.

Also, I've LizKeen to discuss, but I'll get to that a little later.

Epi, BR said I'd get used to you eventually.

She just didn't realise how fast I'd learn

I did a full reread of LizKeen yesterday, so it will be interesting to see what we are seeing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I suspect her. In some ways, I think she is coming across civ. But there have been a couple of things she has said that I think are very noteworthy, and I tihnk she merits healthy discussion.

I meant, it will be interesting to see if what we are seeing is the same.

rabbit8 wrote:

A Person wrote:Michagain

Who are you? Have you been playing all game?

And why can't you spell Michigan?

(I've decided to split this up into different, discrete thoughts)

So, here are just some things I've note I've seen from LizKeen. I honestly haven't decided whether or not the sum total is something that pings me. What I will say is, LizKeen is bringing original ideas to the thread, which as a concept reads civilian to me. But, on the other hand, some of the original ideas she has brought do ping me a little.

LizKeen wrote:So are the celestial a separate team? Mafia? If so I'm not really keen on blindly following bf as he could be trying to gain more power for them if he is in fact not mafia. On the other hand if he's on to something about a mafia I'm not opposed to giving some thought to who he thinks may be. I'd feel a little more comfortable about voting a baddie who perhaps wouldn't give an unconfirmed civvie more power though.

LizKeen suggests bf could be a celestial trying to gain power for them. Interesting. As far as I can recall, LK is the only one to suggest the celestials have been anything other than complete civilian. She later followed this up by asking this question of Mr Fung:

LizKeen wrote:Mr. Fung, do you know if the ivory, jade and amber would be dangerous if they were in the hands of the wrong team?

Which was answered by llama in his host post to say no.

It does demonstrate, to me, that LK's concern and interest in whether or not the celestials were bad has been consistent. But who is it that might be most worried about whether or not the celestials are a threat?? And... the way these were phrased interests me. Would they be dangerous in the hands of 'the wrong team'... not the mafia. Not the celestials. Nothing that needs to raise an eyebrow, but something that gets her the answer she wants. I feel as though I could see this being a mafia fishing to see if the celestials were a threat to them.

LizKeen wrote:I'm going back and re-reading (a task I dread) everyone bf was suspicious of so he won't have died in vain. The mafia would have most definitely wanted him so and I'd say there's at least one if not more of you in those 8 votes. Black Rock is off the hook obviously and I'm giving Zomb the benefit of the doubt now so that at least narrows it down to 6 for me.

LK thinks there are probably baddies hiding in the bf lynch. She narrows it down to 6. She says she will reread them. But then, after her reread:

LizKeen wrote:I have been rereading since my last post and had several posts I had quoted and commented on up to page 15 and then screwed up and lost it all. I'll have to start again tomorrow. Based on what I had reread I would say my current suspicions are SVS, rabbit, LongCon and Vompatti. But I'll have to go into that further tomorrow because it's really late and I'm tired.

She picks four people. Here are the bf voters:

blindfaeth
8
S~V~S (7), Dom (8), rabbit8 (9), Epignosis (10), birdwithteeth11 (13), Zomberella12 (15), Elohcin (16), Black Rock (20)
40%

No LC or Vompatti. Somehow, based on her reread, she suspects two people from the bf lynch and two people who weren't there, who she hadn't said she was going to reread, without connecting that to anything at all. Admittedly, these posts were two hours apart - plenty of time for her brain to move on. But I certainly found it interesting and inconsistent.

LizKeen wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:You gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

You stole my line.

Long Con wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't know if baddies can transfer items around between teamies, but my guess is that the vault keeps papers safe from thieves.

I don't think so:

thellama73 wrote:How Items Work

Some items can be used to confer benefits, some cannot. Some items will be consumed when used, some will not. Most items can be stolen. When someone is lynched, all of the items they possess go to the people who voted for them, in order. So the first vote gets the first item, etc. When someone is NKed, whoever performed the kill gets the item. Items may not be voluntarily traded between players.

Transfer and traded are two different things. So I would say it could be possible for a teammate to give an item to put in the safe.

I'm baffled as to why the stock certificate would start a fire. Why would anyone want to burn stock? Unless the stock market crashes.

I'm off to bed but I hope tomorrow doesn't find the whole city burned down.

And there is this, where LK is the only one who brings up the idea that transferring and trading are two different things. At the time I thought this was a really good point that went overlooked (actually, LK, if you are civilian, I think your posts as a whole are really good content that is being overlooked - and you are right that if I wasn't silenced I would have been talking about them). But who would be in the best place to have the idea an item might be able to be transferred between teammates? A mafia or a celestial, I would have thought, but see post one for why LK cannot be a celestial. No way anyone in the celestial team would be trying to make themselves out to be mafia and a potential threat.

LizKeen wrote:I'm assuming that Golden has been silenced because I can't imagine him being this quiet for this long given his day one posts. I'm rather bummed if that's the case because I was interested to hear what he had to say. I feel he would have at least commented on my previous post because everyone else seems to be ignoring it. I would expect that from mafia but not everyone can be that. Granted it wasn't a super helpful post but no comments at all? Really? Except Zomberella heeding my warning.

And lastly, this. First person to note I was silenced, which took a while frankly considering how prolific I am. I'm not sure what point I'm making with that, other than I found it noteworthy, especially as LK and I have never played with each other before (as far as I'm aware).

SVS - maybe Golden can summarise the thread on my behalf

Epi - maybe Golden can build my case on LK on my behalf

Anyone else want to buy my legal services?

Dammit rabbit, don't tell everyone.

Ok rabbit, what do you think about those posts about LK.

Fair enough.

LK - fair enough answers. Like I said, I'm by no means convinced you are bad, in fact you are playing something that looks a little like a quiet version of my civvie game, in many ways. But I hope you can see why, looking back, those things collectively give me pause.

I had no idea epi would have the same person in mind to talk about, although that was quite funny. I don't think SVS would be a good way to vote, but I have no insight on whether or not you building cases is a genuine part of your game. I'm not sure I buy 'I hosted her once' as a persuasive argument that epi does either, honestly.

And I would have been engaging you on what questions to ask Mr Fung and on the transferring/trading distinction and on other things besides. Your posts have consistently made me think and want to respond.