The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

S~V~S wrote:But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

But you are not hosting this game. So i will discuss it if I please

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

S~V~S wrote:But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

But you are not hosting this game. So i will discuss it if I please

I have no intention of stifling the discussion. I only mean to state my own perspective on the issue. Discuss whatever you like.

OK. I guess the way you read to me is as a thread steerer, someone who tries to push the thread in the direction he wants it to go. That takes a strong person, and you appear to be such a person. But steerers make me very very nervous, especially in a game like this with switching affiliation. I am a radical, a protester. I like to push against people who it feels like may be pushing me. Steerers can turn into stiflers, and ask Llama how I feel about stiflers :P

So take me with a grain of salt. But expect me to push back. I like to challenge authority

Linki @ Llama, I am sorry if I was too broad, every host is different.

DrWilgy wrote: Sidenote: Timmer seems to be loving SVS during the Golden debates... Don't forget this.

As everyone should, Wilgy, old boy, as everyone should

Although I fail to see why SVS love means someone is bad. You never did explain your random vote for me the other day, although you said you would.

TBH, all of these points say the same thing, basically. Timmer has a shitty attitude, especially as it applies to solving the game.

In the last game in this series, RM3 played at a different forum, Revolution Mafia, Timmer was lynched for his shitty attitude. He flamed out a bit since no one seemed to be grasping his point about how he chose to play the game. I was one of the primary pitchfork wavers in the forefront. I still feel rather guilty over this even though I was bad in the game, and any death not mine or a teammates should be cause for rejoicing.

My point is that Timmer has displayed this same "not burning any bridges" attitude the whole game. After RM3, I would find it suspicious if he behaved otherwise. There is nothing wrong with being neutral; most of us started out the game this way, and most of us still are neutral. He chooses to play as an actual neutral, thereby increasing his desirability as a recruit.

Do I think he could be capable of putting on an act and actually be bad? Oh 100%. But I am not going to vote for someone based solely on attitude. Especially an attitude that, while not one I would choose, is not unreasonable and which I have seen them have before as an unrecruited.

linki~ wow that's hardcore, pulling quotes from another forum, lol!

I am still looking at Sorsha, and have been watching Bullz the whole game. Still waiting for that baddie hunting you chided Unfurl for not doing, Bullz.

Canucklehead wrote:Wow, those Timer defense posts by ?SVS and Tranq have some eerily similar language in them.... and are awfully close together.

Great minds think alike

Personally, I think the Timmer suspish is weak, to be blunt. BUT that's becasue I know the history. I was at the head of the pack that lynched him in RM3 for the exact same reasons the people who don't know him want to lynch him now, so I feel it is only right to speak up. I woke up, and I caught up from the night before during my morning coffee & Mafia time, and gave my opinion on Timmer, which had been the last conversation before I posted.

Ricochet wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Bold stance: next time we're in Position 2, the lynch will be switched again.

Will it be to save a teammate?

How will we be able to test that or get info out of that, if there'll be a lynch switch no matter what.

You can't. That's the point. I am of the opinion that with the variety of roles that can switch things around, there is no way to really know anything With these hosts, attempts to "solve" their intricately woven chaos will invariable end in failure. Not all games are logic puzzles. Some games are finely crafted clusterfucks.

If you're a baddie and you've got a use it or lose it lynch switch, or use it or lose it whatever power, you use it.

I read some of Bubbles posts in other games, and I was like *meh* about her being bad. Anything is possible, but she sounds about the same in those games as she does here. Although i disagree with him on Timmer, I do tend to agree with Wilgy on Bubbles.

I had a doctors appointment and took half a day. I will be in and out.

Linki @ DH, yes I clearly posted the EXACT time that my opinion on Golden shifted. EXACTLY. The exact post. Old news dear, keep up with the thread better

And why would anyone think Golden would be an easy lynch? For killing Epignosis?

Ricochet wrote:

S~V~S wrote:And why would anyone think Golden would be an easy lynch? For killing Epignosis?

You didn't suspect Golden for killing Epignosis (aka his bait to get Epignosis being WIFOM) until late into Golden's lynch. Initially you suspected Golden for his nonchalance and for distrusting that he's playing his civ game.

i know. I meant that why would anyone want to lynch Golden for killing Epignosis. Epi was hounding him, and until he made that post, I felt sorry for him, too.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Linki @ DH, yes I clearly posted the EXACT time that my opinion on Golden shifted. EXACTLY. The exact post. Old news dear, keep up with the thread better

Well this just confirms it for me.

You did not already know this when you came to the conclusion you came to?

DharmaHelper wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Linki @ DH, yes I clearly posted the EXACT time that my opinion on Golden shifted. EXACTLY. The exact post. Old news dear, keep up with the thread better

Well this just confirms it for me.

You did not already know this when you came to the conclusion you came to?

Know that you were bad? Not with 100% certainty. Your response confirmed it.

No, you didn't know that I was saying that for days smartass :P ? That one post made me change my mind. You can even see it in the thread, right after the night post where Epi & Typh died. I wasn't sure how I felt about it until he posted. If you want to think that changing my mind makes me a baddie, feel free. You'd be wrong. And why that specific role?

It also occurrred after Golden said he had baited the baddies into killing Epignosis, lol.

Ricochet wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

S~V~S wrote:And why would anyone think Golden would be an easy lynch? For killing Epignosis?

You didn't suspect Golden for killing Epignosis (aka his bait to get Epignosis being WIFOM) until late into Golden's lynch. Initially you suspected Golden for his nonchalance and for distrusting that he's playing his civ game.

i know. I meant that why would anyone want to lynch Golden for killing Epignosis. Epi was hounding him, and until he made that post, I felt sorry for him, too.

Golden made his doomed comment fairly immediately, so there was no window for players to feel "sorry about Golden being hounded by Epig". His comment split the players right away into those finding him nonchalant and bad and those finding him genuine and possibly framed.

So when was Golden a lynch target for killing Epignosis (or the WIFOM around it)? As I've said, only you converted your suspicion into that late on D3 and I think rey did it as well at one point (without having brought it up before at all). I'd have to double-check about others, don't recall.

Am I misunderstanding something? Did you mean DH implied people (easily) suspected and lynched Golden for killing Epig? Because I don't see where he implied that.

No, lol. How are you reading it this way? I am sorry I am not being clear. During the day before Epi died, I was sorry for Golden; I would imagine anone on the receiving end of Epis assuredness was.

I was asking why anyone would think it was an easy lynch, the "for killing Epignosis" part was rhetorical. Like how would someone people felt sorry for be an easy lynch?

@DH, um, I am not being combative? I am defending myself here.

Can you point out the combative? Was it calling you dear, or using this smiley: :P Or did you not like being told to read the thread? Becasue you missed a few things, IMO. And how do you know exactly when Uzbarger recruited? I went and looked back for that info, and I can't find it. I found the announcement of the first recruit, and the picture request, but can't find when he recruited either of those times. Unless the hosts misspleed his name

*misspelled

DharmaHelper wrote:

Black Rock wrote:The Recruitment Challenge is over, the leader shall now judge and make a decision. Sorry for the delay, I had the farrier here doing my horses feet.

There are over 24 hours between this post and Epis death, and Goldens subsequent remark. 24 hours in which I continued to not think Golden was bad.

And I get that way at pretty much any accusation, DH, as you well know. I recall games where you intentionally tried to upset me. And I have been using caps all game for emphasis.You just know how to upset me, just look at when we first started playing D & D.

You're stretching here.

Not with all the night powers that can fuck with things, Wilgy. There are too many unknown variables. Sometimes you just have to suspend belief and let magic take over.

Nope.

And in that game, it was Rabbits abortive Superhero game, LT read you & Rey out in the thread for intentionally working me up. We were all civ.

I will never forget that. So no bullshit.

ebwop, I kinda thought there were others but have no way of knowing for sure, but you got called out in thread for that one.

I figured you were suspicious of me, you did vote for me and never explain it. Or that question about how artistic i was.

And I am talking about Game Mechanics. Look at the roles, Wilgy. They're pretty wild. I am not saying dismiss discussion; I LOVE discussion. I am saying we not worry so much about being able to deduce things based on easily manipulated evidence. There are seemers, iirc there is a role that can insert stuff into the host post, there are roles with day or night ends that don't have to worry about saving it for when they need it. Vote manips. Power redirectors. People that can survive for any amount of reasons.

And I submit entries to all contests in this game. And in that game, those were the best roles, the indies, and two of the baddies, The most interesting. Even the host said I submitted the best list

@DH

DharmaHelper wrote:SVS is bad and will get my vote until I can't vote.

Yeah, that's about what I felt about Golden.

Scotty wrote:I just want to point out that DH's scum read on SVS is the most read-y thing he's done all game so far. I value his reads going forward, but also find it out of his game character this far. His point seems contributive, and I feel like SVS could have been recruited by a baddie team, but I am not sure she was done so between day 1 and 2. I think the switch would have happened sometime after that.

As for DH, isn't it interesting that he finally started going after someone after Unkerstein recruited earlier today?

I apologize for not being involved in the game as much recently. The other 3 mafia games I'm in just started and have me quite busy. I promise to get back in with more in depth reads, but for right now off the top of my head:

-I'm still not off the Sorsha could = Umlautzerbad train, since she hasn't really been part of the discussion as of late (and no excuse as of why).
-The lynch switch to Bubbles shouldn't intrinsicly reflect badly on her, and we should not assume that it was solely Ubolivegarden's doing to get unfurl lynched. There were other powers at play yesterday, and I'm not reading into that.
-That being said, I don't think Bubbles has done anything to make her appear civ in the interim, and for now I will be voting Bubbles. until further notice.
-I'd really rather track down the recruiters before getting into the semantics of what makes a baddie recruit, but if a murderer kidnapped my dog and said he would kill it unless I told him some suspicious names of recruitees now, I would say that JJJ, SVS and DH are ones to look at. I would wager that no more than 2 of those are baddies, though not necessarily on the same team.
-I'm avoiding the Rico/LoRab debate for now.

That underlined bit up there was why I asked DH how he knew when the earlier Uzburger recruit happened, and he produced a post from 24 hours or so before then= night post and when I shifted tone in thread. When the recruit actually happened was not posted, I looked through Black Rocks posts before I asked, so I found that odd.

And I have to agree with your short list, it makes sense, even though i don't belong on it, I can see why you might put me there.

Wilgy an FYI, Epi was killed by Azuma not Uzburger.

So you think BR made me a baddie recruiter becasue I would like it? Whether I have a "thing" for being a baddie has no bearing on role assignment. One & Three don't go together.

You're just stringing stuff together, when your attempt to save Bubbles with your Timmer suspicions did not fly, you jumped onto DHs post.

Day one there was a 12 or 13 player tie I think.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:DH, if you could describe your desire to lynch S~V~S with one word, what would it be?

I mean the magnitude of your emotion. How strong is your desire?

Hey JJJ make me feel you really care about being fair.

I think that is 100% typical of me.

I held my vote until I was sure I would not need it to defend. I am not as sure about Bubbles as are some, Wilgys extreme desire to save her almost made me vote for her, but i will stick to my own suspicion and vote Sorsha.

nutella wrote:Also SVS why tf did you "hold your vote" they are changeable

I am not a fan of last minute vote changes. But mainly it is force of habit; when I am in a "taking votes" situation, I always hold my vote and don't give whether or not the votes are changeable much thought. I have seen LOTS of lynches shift in the last hour, so when I am taking votes I watch and wait.

DrWilgy wrote:
Last thing to point out, SVS, why did you ignore this?

DrWilgy wrote:

S~V~S wrote:So you think BR made me a baddie recruiter becasue I would like it? Whether I have a "thing" for being a baddie has no bearing on role assignment. One & Three don't go together.

You're just stringing stuff together, when your attempt to save Bubbles with your Timmer suspicions did not fly, you jumped onto DHs post.

SVS, that doesn't make sense, I've been voting for you for awhile now. I didn't list 1 and 3 as cause and effect, I listed it as possibilities. Your pursuit of Golden is what throws me for aloop the most. I agree with what Rico said.

timmer wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Day one there was a 12 or 13 player tie I think.

Oh that?

Wilgy, so your case is three points, one of which is that SVS likes being bad (WTF?) and one of which is that she is one of a ton of people who didn't die from a hugely tied lynch? And this is because you assume one of them was Ubby? What about Terras protecting all Guardians that day?

If that's your case, I'm moving' on, sorry dude.

Uggg... Timmer, I have stated previous the conditions for my vote and didn't want to go through it again. Her pursuit of Golden didn't feel genuine when I read it. I didn't have time to quote everything at the time, due to working on house renovations. Your WTF would be understandable if I hadn't already spoken about SVS being SK in a open role choice environment. I don't assume one of them is Ububudoo, but the possibility is there and we shouldn't forget that. Statistic wise, if we go after a Golden hounder, she's our best choice.

I'm currently packing for the move tomorrow, so I don't have alot of time left for mafia today, nor will I tomorrow. I'll chime in when I get the chance.

I did not respond to it since I had already responded to the shorthand version, plus I saw a statement here, not a question. You have not been voting for me for "a while now" you voted for me two lynches ago, and had your vote on Timmer most of the past day until DH asked you to switch it.

This game is NOT an open choice environment. And I don't think my preference for being a baddie is a secret from anyone here. If "liking being bad" is criteria for being bad in any given game, I would be screwed EVERY game. It is so well known that I like being bad that I actually think I would be a liability for a baddie recruiter, like I was in RM# when I was recruited by Reywas. I was taking suspicion from both Epi & DH from fairly early in the game. So take what you will about my current recruitment status from that.

And re Golden, that is how I tend to Mafia. I see something I suspect and I go pretty hard after them.

As for your other thoughts, I am sorry that Unfurl died. Other than Roxy I am probably the last person here to kill Unfurl. She is a gentle presence, and I think we need more of her, not less of her.

And had I been bad, and known Bubbles was gonna flip bad, i would have voted her, and I would have voted hella earlier than I did, as would, I think, pretty much anyone else playing, so this is not really WIFOM territory.

Linki @ Roxy, yeah I noticed that too. But why would she make herself come up as bad?

Since the next position was team seemer, I assumed they had to use it on themselves, but when you assume ... etc.

@Hosties~ Can Windscout in Position 4 make anyone look like another role, or just themself?

And 5 seems the best bet.

Bullzeye wrote:Completed my dissertation today. Awaiting feedback from my supervisor so I'll probably not submit til Friday morning but my Masters is essentially finished now With that in mind, I'm gonna go catch up.

Congratulations

Black Rock wrote:

Official Announcement

It's time to find out where some roles allegiances lie. There will be one winner with the choice to share or keep this information. One role from each team will be revealed to the winner. It's a huge advantage. Choose one team leader and write a back story for this leader. We will have a third party judge the winner anonymously.

Oh, you have until the end of the night, so get cracking.

It says role not player. Plus the end of the night means the judge still has to read them. Its speculation because I know at least part of it is not true.

Quick question; Bullz is the 12th highest living poster, with 108 posts. Can anyone remember, off the top of their heads, without reading back, a strong point he has made or position he has taken, right or wrong?

Turnip Head wrote:Rest in peace all ye deadies. Bloody night.

Caelia's message could be one of those "Some of these are true and some are false" sorta deals.

It doesn't say she gets info. Its her opinion because I know that at least one name in there is not bad. At least we now know DH isn't Caelia since he would have only put my name in there

And Bullz, no not lots of strong opinions. But not even one?

Bullzeye wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Quick question; Bullz is the 12th highest living poster, with 108 posts. Can anyone remember, off the top of their heads, without reading back, a strong point he has made or position he has taken, right or wrong?

Just make your point, so I can point out how you know full well I'm not the type of player who comes out big with the strong accusations all that often.

This is my point; it is day 6, you have over 100 posts and I bet no one can come up with any opinion you have held. That is the definition of "blendy".

Bullzeye wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Rest in peace all ye deadies. Bloody night.

Caelia's message could be one of those "Some of these are true and some are false" sorta deals.

It doesn't say she gets info. Its her opinion because I know that at least one name in there is not bad. At least we now know DH isn't Caelia since he would have only put my name in there

And Bullz, no not lots of strong opinions. But not even one?

In a game that coincides with the deadline of the biggest and most important piece of work I've ever done? My activity quickly slowed down because I was working hard. I do feel like I made a decent contribution to the Bass discussion, and if day three hadn't locked the thread while I was catching up I'd have been more involved then but since around that time I've had to focus on more important things. Busy = not enough time to read in much depth, especially with lynches ending at 4/5am so I sleep through hours of important discussion. As it happens, I've got today completely free and intend to do some reading here. But I'm still not seeing your point.

Also you mention my post count and positioning overall, but what's so special about it? Seven posts below TH's post count and 8 above both Bea and LA. Why are they not scrutinised in the same manner?

Because I can remember things that they have said. I can't remember much of anything you've said without reading, and I have been watching you, lol. You know you caught my eye day one, and I would have pursued it further sooner, but I got distracted by Golden via Epis death

DharmaHelper wrote:If SVS were good, I would be dead right now. Her team didn't NK me because it would have led right back to her.

If I am wrong then you can go ahead and lynch me right after.

You seem to be saying I am on Team Uzburger. Azura killed last night. Make up your mind.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Good point, Guess you didn't get the chance to kill me last night.

What surprises me is that the Exec did not try to kill ME last night. I was kind of hoping he would since it was his Warrior night and it would have proved a point when the kill failed, or at least made a point in my favor since I think nothing can be proven completely this game.

And hopefully you will be protected tomorrow night, so the team trying to frame me will not be able to kill you

Linki, I don't think it was a load of bullshit

Bullzeye wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:
Good point, Guess you didn't get the chance to kill me last night.

What surprises me is that the Exec did not try to kill ME last night. I was kind of hoping he would since it was his Warrior night and it would have proved a point when the kill failed, or at least made a point in my favor since I think nothing can be proven completely this game.

And hopefully you will be protected tomorrow night, so the team trying to frame me will not be able to kill you

Linki, I don't think it was a load of bullshit

I feel like you made a huge deal over what was barely even a thought. You even made a dig at me more recently for the fact that I at one point thought about suspecting her.

I did not make a "huge deal" over it, at the time I made two posts, and a vote. Since then, watching you, you have posted quite a bit, but said quite a little.

You are not the most aggressive player, but you have good insights and observations. I am not seeing that here at all. Quite the opposite,

Who do you suspect? Why? Anyone?

*channels JJJ*

Bullzeye wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Who do you suspect? Why? Anyone?

*channels JJJ*

Give me an hour or so (assuming I don't just fall asleep while typing, which is a great danger even right now but I'm sure my considerate neighbours will wake me up with their very appropriate and polite 1,2,3 & 4am yelling and laughing. I am currently running through the people I'm sure I don't suspect, basically making a rainbow list in my head. If I can't think of a reason not to suspect someone they're going on my list of people to look at, which I will begin tomorrow. I shall post this when it is ready.

You don't suspect anyone? Not even one person?

I am going to vote you for now. That could change. But being unable to come up with one name on Day 6, while you have been participating, stretched credulity for me.

*Votes Bullzeye

Well, I see how I can see that, so I am OK with it

It is Day Six, you don't have one opinion other than that I am picking on you. With like 10x the posts of DP. I seem to recall DP having an opinion.

Sorry if you feel persecuted, but not ONE opinion?

Exactly; absolutely nothing.

But you haven't been too busy to participate. You have lots of posts. That was my point. You post alot, you are participating.

@Ricochet Hopefully this does not get lost~ my expectation of the Exec trying to kill me is based on DH insisting that I am Uzburger, and last night was a night the Exec could kill a Warrior. So I thought the Exec might try to prove the point in that fashion. It is probably what I would have done had I been the Exec.

Scotty wrote:

Synonym wrote:I'm reading and voting, just haven't been participating much in the thread. To be honest I still don't really understand this game but I'm trying to keep up.

I've been voting for the various Positions and lynches.

Yo dawg, I know you from JTM and I know you're capable of being super helpful as a civ. But even in a massive game like this one, you gotta have some sort of opinion.
I've been reading too. Just finished the One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish saga. Took me a few days. And I can say that on page 17 the narrator says that he wishes he had 11 fingers, and that's bullshit. Who wants 11 fingers? That's just my opinion.

So you've voted SVS, so you obviously have some sort of opinion by now, however small.

Yeah, this.

I see Bullz posted some opinions, I have to read those over more carefully. I will also read the other cases on people getting votes. If I have to switch my vote to protect myself I will, but would rather it be to someone I feel less positive about, and hopefully don't have to worry about that at all.

And I am glad I am not the only one who thought JJJs sudden case of the *mehs* and a major posting style change a bit odd.

Also @ Wilgy, I did not kill Unfurl, and I would not have killed Unfurl. She raises the level of every thread she is in, and God knows we need that sometimes. Even if I were bad, which I am not, i would have hoped to recruit her rather than kill her.

Linki, I am not misrepresenting you, DH. This was a good point really, and if it makes you happy I will change it from "DH" to "those who suspect me" and insisting to "possibly". I still think it's a good point and it stands.

lol nub :P

Barking up the wrong tree, Hoss.

Ah now I see that JJJ has voted for me. Looking forward to hearing why.

DrWilgy wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Wilgy, if you could do me a favor (I have asked other people in other games to do this as well, I am not picking on you or anything) I would appreciate it if you could stop changing your avatar so much. When I am looking for someones posts, that is how I identify whose posts i am looking for skimming down the thread. If people keep changing their avatar, it makes things harder for me to follow as I am a pretty visual person. Thank You for understanding

*bows* I will refrain from changing my avatar for the remainder of the game

Thank You

@ Synonym~ No not really. I am an observer. I watch for things that get my interest, and once something has, I can be fairly dogged about pursuing them. But I don't view myself as an antagonist, no.

@Wilgy, some hosts post small taretings like silencing, i don;t thise LC & BR do, though.