The Syndicate

Dom wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:OK, thanks for the consideration of allowing me to address my technical issues. I'm afraid Dom that I could not reply to you earlier. My keyboard gave up the ghost and would only work intermittently and it took ages to type anything. I was at work on a break when I sent that last message and as much as I'd have wanted to reply to you, it simply wasn't going to happen - I appreciate your patience.

Basically, I agree with what's been said already - the well of newer players being Mafia has dried up. On the law of averages, you'd have to assume that there are one or two more experienced players involved as part of the Mafia families.

On that note, some time ago I was playing a Mafia game where (as Town) I'd concocted this theory on the guilt of one of my fellow players based on their use of certain punctuation in their posts. I was absolutely convinced of their guilt and put my case to the rest of the players in that game. Needless to say I got laughed out of town and rightly so, I was completely wrong. Now please don't misunderstand me here - I fully respect the ability of each and everyone of you, my fellow players and in particular S-V-S. I know we had that run-in early on over my post that you thought was too carefully worded. I think that case was pretty thin (more so than the one I described above) and what's more, it was wrong.

I found your argument with Golden interesting and for better or worse, I think his judgement is pretty good from all accounts (after all, you don't win all those Socky's for nothing). And then, in the dying shadows of dawn, you started accusing me again. You said that you would vote for me because I am not direct in answering questions - and that may be true. I do the best I can to contribute fully and respect each and everyone of you in the face (sometimes) of some considerable provocation. You would do well not to misjudge me for that.

In terms of my vote right now, I think it will be S-V-S. I have an open mind and if someone comes up with a better case before tomorrow morning, I'll happily consider it.

Side stepping my question for four paragraphs and then spending two sentences answering my question is one way to make me think you don't really want to answer my question.

I've side-stepped nothing my friend. You asked me to nominate for whom I will vote and I've answered your question. I've tried to give you (and others) insight to my thinking on this matter (with plenty of notice prior to the EoD for your consideration). It is apparent to me that your mind is made up about me Dom and I promise you that you're wrong. I doubt there is anything I can say to change your mind but I trust my fellow Town colleagues will not fall so blindly for the poor excuse of a case against me as you have.

Golden wrote:

My friend, at whatever point I am to leave this game (be it this Day phase or some other) it will be you whom I shall miss most. I'm guessing what you're doing with these gifs is some kind of curse but every single one has brought a smile to my face

People have drawn comparisons between my posts this game and Star Wars where I was Mafia. It's a little hard for me to discern the extent to which that is true but I know for a fact that they are different in one crucial respect and that was the basis for me making that 'obvious Town' comment.

OK, thanks for the consideration of allowing me to address my technical issues. I'm afraid Dom that I could not reply to you earlier. My keyboard gave up the ghost and would only work intermittently and it took ages to type anything. I was at work on a break when I sent that last message and as much as I'd have wanted to reply to you, it simply wasn't going to happen - I appreciate your patience.

Basically, I agree with what's been said already - the well of newer players being Mafia has dried up. On the law of averages, you'd have to assume that there are one or two more experienced players involved as part of the Mafia families.

On that note, some time ago I was playing a Mafia game where (as Town) I'd concocted this theory on the guilt of one of my fellow players based on their use of certain punctuation in their posts. I was absolutely convinced of their guilt and put my case to the rest of the players in that game. Needless to say I got laughed out of town and rightly so, I was completely wrong. Now please don't misunderstand me here - I fully respect the ability of each and everyone of you, my fellow players and in particular S-V-S. I know we had that run-in early on over my post that you thought was too carefully worded. I think that case was pretty thin (more so than the one I described above) and what's more, it was wrong.

I found your argument with Golden interesting and for better or worse, I think his judgement is pretty good from all accounts (after all, you don't win all those Socky's for nothing). And then, in the dying shadows of dawn, you started accusing me again. You said that you would vote for me because I am not direct in answering questions - and that may be true. I do the best I can to contribute fully and respect each and everyone of you in the face (sometimes) of some considerable provocation. You would do well not to misjudge me for that.

In terms of my vote right now, I think it will be S-V-S. I have an open mind and if someone comes up with a better case before tomorrow morning, I'll happily consider it.

Dom wrote:So glorf, you wanna lynch anyone or nah?


Juliets, having played star wars, I'd say this play isn't necessarily dissimilar.

Yes, Dom - I do. I am experiencing some technical difficulties here at the moment that are making posting incredibly annoying. I am trying to address these issues as quickly as I am able but given that I want to post a considered case to support my vote, I trust that you will bear with me in this.

I also appreciate your perspective on the comparison of my posts and playstyle in previous games but I would counsel Juliets not to abandon her views too easily. As bea commented to me some days ago, sometimes having that 'distance' from people and events can prove more revealing than you might think.

juliets wrote:I read Pikmin Mafia and Glorfindel's posts did look significantly different - he never appeared frustrated or upset. BUT there is a big difference between that game and the Star Wars game - he never had any pressure on him about being bad. So I don't think I can compare that game with this one.

I'd really like those thinking of voting for Glorfindel to read those two games - it doesn't take long - because I'd like to hear other opinions based on the reads.

Thank you for that frank and considered analysis, Juliets.

LoRab wrote:In the players list, the blue and pink were the gender of players. The color of roles in the roles list, to my knowledge, didn't have significance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong--I never noticed a pattern if there was one.

It appears then that I may have made an assumption then that I shouldn't have. Where I come from, it is common practice to update the index of players with their alignment (by using different coloured fonts) as the game progresses and it honestly never occurred to me things wouldn't work the same here so I apologise for having made that assumption. I don't think it changes the fact though that his posts in that game appear substantially different in content (if not in tone) to his posts both in Pikmin Mafia (where he was Mafia) and this game. You may know him better than I and hold a differ not view to mine and that's fine but I still assert that there is something to my impressions of his posting style across these games. If I'm wrong, I will happily be the first in line to apologise to MM for my poor judgement (if I'm wrong) when this game ends.

LoRab wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Also, can anyone shed any light on the acronym A.S.S may represent?

Animal Sanctuary Squad.

Can anyone shed light on why MM was killed? I don't specifically recall his suspects, so I need to reread him.

It seems that perhaps someone was listening to my case on MM after all... Was MM Salvatore Maroni? I guess we'll know at the start of Day 8 It was apparent something was up there with MM (even if no one other than Matt and Golden publicly acknowledged it).

Thank you too my friend for clarifying that A.S,S, acronym thing too - appreciate it muchly

You seem frustrated that few have responded to your case, and yet you haven't responded to some of the responses to your case. For instance, that a bit piece of it was based on his behavior in World Reborn where you said he was civ--which he wasn't. You haven't responded to that hole poked in your case against him. Still waiting for your response to that.

I've had a number of questions I've asked during this game ignored so you'll forgive me if I'm not as diligent in answering questions asked of me in return - although that was one I'd intended to respond to. When I looked at the index page for that game, his name was listed in blue - my assumption being that he was not Mafia - I don't actually think that was an unreasonable assumption to have made. No, I didn't read the entire thread, I ISOd MM's posts and from that it was apparent his playstyle was different from both this game and Pikmin Mafia (where he was Mafia). My understanding was that he was actually a third party in A World Reborn - is that correct? I'm sorry if I've misunderstood there.

He was neutral, and a potential sk, protecting a baddie. So, not a civ by any means. The roles in that game were listed in alphabetical order and did not include alignment.

So the roles that appeared in an alternate pink font did not denote Mafia alignment?

LoRab wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Also, can anyone shed any light on the acronym A.S.S may represent?

Animal Sanctuary Squad.

Can anyone shed light on why MM was killed? I don't specifically recall his suspects, so I need to reread him.

It seems that perhaps someone was listening to my case on MM after all... Was MM Salvatore Maroni? I guess we'll know at the start of Day 8 It was apparent something was up there with MM (even if no one other than Matt and Golden publicly acknowledged it).

Thank you too my friend for clarifying that A.S,S, acronym thing too - appreciate it muchly

You seem frustrated that few have responded to your case, and yet you haven't responded to some of the responses to your case. For instance, that a bit piece of it was based on his behavior in World Reborn where you said he was civ--which he wasn't. You haven't responded to that hole poked in your case against him. Still waiting for your response to that.

I've had a number of questions I've asked during this game ignored so you'll forgive me if I'm not as diligent in answering questions asked of me in return - although that was one I'd intended to respond to. When I looked at the index page for that game, his name was listed in blue - my assumption being that he was not Mafia - I don't actually think that was an unreasonable assumption to have made. No, I didn't read the entire thread, I ISOd MM's posts and from that it was apparent his playstyle was different from both this game and Pikmin Mafia (where he was Mafia). My understanding was that he was actually a third party in A World Reborn - is that correct? I'm sorry if I've misunderstood there.

juliets wrote:Ok I've read through Star Wars and see you had many less posts in that game than in this one so far. I haven't read your iso in this game recently though so I need to do that before i can really compare. I have a few things to do first so it will be a little while before I can do the comparison.

That's fine my friend. I sincerely appreciate your candor in relation to this matter.

juliets wrote:

Typhoony wrote:

juliets wrote:

Typhoony wrote:Can someone point out the differences for me between Glorfindels Star Wars game and this game (or point me to a post where someone already does)?

I'm reading his posts over there now but I can't remember if he was good or bad in that game. Which was it?

You took the trouble of going to that thread to read his posts but you're too lazy to look up what role he was?

He was bad.

I didn't know where to look that up and thanks Gorfindel to you and Typh.

I'd frankly be very interested on your take on that question my friend.

juliets wrote:

Typhoony wrote:Can someone point out the differences for me between Glorfindels Star Wars game and this game (or point me to a post where someone already does)?

I'm reading his posts over there now but I can't remember if he was good or bad in that game. Which was it?

I was junior Mafia in Star Wars Juliets and Town in Pikmin. They are the only two other games I've played here.

Bullzeye wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Also, can anyone shed any light on the acronym A.S.S may represent?

Animal Sanctuary Squad.

Can anyone shed light on why MM was killed? I don't specifically recall his suspects, so I need to reread him.

It seems that perhaps someone was listening to my case on MM after all... Was MM Salvatore Maroni? I guess we'll know at the start of Day 8 It was apparent something was up there with MM (even if no one other than Matt and Golden publicly acknowledged it).

Thank you too my friend for clarifying that A.S,S, acronym thing too - appreciate it muchly

MM was killed by e Maroni family so I highly doubt he was part of eir team.

My mistake, please accept my apologies - that is true. Then alternately a member of the Falcone family - more likely in fact given that the Maroni potentially missed their NK on Night 2 and MM had posted that Night phase,

Why do you seem to ink that MM being NK'd supports him being bad? Baddies don't generally try to kill eachoer in my experience, ey'd raer get someone lynched for civ cred.

From my reading of it, the win condition for both Mafia teams includes the elimination of the other Mafia team so to argue that a Mafia team wouldn't pursue that goal (if they thought there was a reasonable prospect of that) seems an odd argument to make to me.

And if you are saying that they'd rather have lynched MM for Civ cred, you're going to have to explain to me just how that would work exactly. There was a case put against him - supported by practically no one. How exactly do you think they could've engineered that? I'm not saying that MM was conclusively Mafia at all - just that there was a chance and if he wasn't Mafia, I still feel like he wasn't on our side.

Bullzeye wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Also, can anyone shed any light on the acronym A.S.S may represent?

Animal Sanctuary Squad.

Can anyone shed light on why MM was killed? I don't specifically recall his suspects, so I need to reread him.

It seems that perhaps someone was listening to my case on MM after all... Was MM Salvatore Maroni? I guess we'll know at the start of Day 8 It was apparent something was up there with MM (even if no one other than Matt and Golden publicly acknowledged it).

Thank you too my friend for clarifying that A.S,S, acronym thing too - appreciate it muchly

MM was killed by e Maroni family so I highly doubt he was part of eir team.

My mistake, please accept my apologies - that is true. Then alternately a member of the Falcone family - more likely in fact given that the Maroni potentially missed their NK on Night 2 and MM had posted that Night phase,

S~V~S wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Also, can anyone shed any light on the acronym A.S.S may represent?

Animal Sanctuary Squad.

Can anyone shed light on why MM was killed? I don't specifically recall his suspects, so I need to reread him.

It seems that perhaps someone was listening to my case on MM after all... Was MM Salvatore Maroni? I guess we'll know at the start of Day 8 It was apparent something was up there with MM (even if no one other than Matt and Golden publicly acknowledged it).

Thank you too my friend for clarifying that A.S,S, acronym thing too - appreciate it muchly

Glorfindel wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Heh as soon as I said that TH and Glorfindel left so much for engaging in discussions :P

My apologies DH - I had to leave for a gym session... I asked because of my niave assumption that the acronym used may have been some kind of clue to MM's alignment. Like you, I'd not seen it referenced earlier in the game myself - consequently, why I asked the question.

You know, like... Arkham, Something, Something...

DharmaHelper wrote:Heh as soon as I said that TH and Glorfindel left so much for engaging in discussions :P

My apologies DH - I had to leave for a gym session... I asked because of my niave assumption that the acronym used may have been some kind of clue to MM's alignment. Like you, I'd not seen it referenced earlier in the game myself - consequently, why I asked the question.

DFaraday wrote:RIP MM. I was leaning civ on you.

Enrique wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Why do people think TH is the Riddler? Did I miss it?

Am I missing something? Who said this?

Matt wrote:

Dom wrote:It sounds like you could be wrong, Matt.

No.

From the impression I got, I very well should've been posting funny on Days 4, 5, and 6 as well, until I got the riddle correct. Suddenly though, nothin'.

But everyone's keen on Turnips, so what can I do? Guess I'll move on.

I guess I misinterpreted this to mean that people were thinking TH was the Riddler, when it probably meant they just agreed with him.

Glorfindel, the acronym is a reference to players whose names or signature creatures on here are animals (marmot, mongoose, llama, etc.). I forget what exactly it stands for though.

Thank you my friend for showing me the respect of answering my question. It appears that is too much to ask of some others playing this game

Also, can anyone shed any light on the acronym A.S.S may represent?

A truly intriguing development... Can anyone else see a pattern emerging here?

Ricochet wrote:My fav:

Thanks, Man

Matt wrote:Funny tho, I'm pretty sure both Turnips and MP are liar liars but everyone seems to think they're civvie.

Hold the phone there, Matt! Yes, I did state that I thought that both were good but I'd certainly consider seriously anything you had to say on the matter. I thought the case for MP being confirmed Town was conclusive and widely accepted. May I impose upon you to state your thoughts on either/both of them?

Matt wrote:Is MM playing this game? I'm pretty sure he is. MM - What's up bud?

There's never a 'facepalm' smilie around when you need one...

Glorfindel wrote:

Golden wrote:I agree with TH on that front. I don't think your status is 'obvious'.

I think you've missed the point here - the point is what case do you have against me? Whatever it is, it won't hold any water because whether you like it or not, in truth it can't. If we're all still here the next Day phase, you do what you feel you have to (and that goes for DH and MP and anyone else for that matter) and I'll do what I have to. As hard as it is to keep supporting a Town team that is so blind and misguided, I will remain loyal to our team until the end. If you want to eliminate me, at the end of the Day it's your call - and you can live with the consequences.

Sorry, that was meant to be TH not DH.

Golden wrote:I agree with TH on that front. I don't think your status is 'obvious'.

I think you've missed the point here - the point is what case do you have against me? Whatever it is, it won't hold any water because whether you like it or not, in truth it can't. If we're all still here the next Day phase, you do what you feel you have to (and that goes for DH and MP and anyone else for that matter) and I'll do what I have to. As hard as it is to keep supporting a Town team that is so blind and misguided, I will remain loyal to our team until the end. If you want to eliminate me, at the end of the Day it's your call - and you can live with the consequences.

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:You could always join #TeamLynchGlorfindel. We'd be happy to have you.

You seem to be on #TeamLynchDharmaHelper

Yeah but I'm a free agent soon and #TeamLynchGlorfindel has a juicier benefits package

Well you'd better start work right now on how you're going to justify your leading a lynch against an obvious Townie because I can promise you, you're going to need it my friend...

Sorry, I forgot DFaraday and Enrique.

DFaraday: I know there had been some conjecture on him but with only probably one recent exception, I think I've found his posts to be what I'd have expected of him were he Town. I'm happy to a consider an alternate view if anyone would care to link me to one but for the time being I'd go with good.

Enrique: I don't know. My feelings about his alignment could be compared to a revolving door. I've swung wildly in my opinion of his alignment throughout this game and while I'd go with good /independent for the time being, it would be a judgement based on little confidence.

MacDougall wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:By the way, if anyone were remotely interested in my take on the GTH process I'd be happy to contribute. I'm guessing that it would however be a complete waste of my time...

On the contrary. It would be an incredibly incredibly valuable thing imo.

Very well...

Bass_the_clever: Good (but deserves a closer look)
Bubbles: Good
Bullszye: Initially good (starting to have serious doubts)
Dharmerhelper: Probably OK
Dom: Not sure but I doubt pure Town
Golden: Town/Town-leaning independent
Glorfindel: Pure as the driven snow
Juliets: Good (pretty confident)
Ekeknat: Likely bad
Equivocate:
Lorab: Town/potentially independent
MacDougall: Good
Matt: Good/potentially independent
MetalMarsh89: Bad
Moving Pictures: Good (and misguided)
Sorsha: Good (but I'd want to look closer on this one)
Sprityo: Independent
S-V-S: Independent/bad
The Floyd73:
Turnip Head: Good (but seriously misguided)
Typhoony: Independent/bad

By the way, if anyone were remotely interested in my take on the GTH process I'd be happy to contribute. I'm guessing that it would however be a complete waste of my time...

As for me, at the end of the last Day phase I put before you my case on MetalMarsh89 and I revisited it last night. At the time that I conducted my analysis he had 190 posts this game at an average of 16.6 words per post. In fact, the post where he defended my accusation was his second longest for him for the entire game. Whilst I both admire and appreciate his sense of humour, most of his posts were just that - very little substance, next to no analysis - which I think makes Golden's comment about not being aware that he was even playing so telling. If you compare this performance to Pikmin Mafia where he was Mafia, you'll see that it is very similar. Compare that to 'A World Reborn' (where he was Town) and you'll find pretty much the opposite. Whilst not describing his posting as prolific, they were very different - lots of analysis, incisive questioning of other players... MM is clearly a very accomplished player and to me, it looks like he's coasting this game and doing a fine job of it.

I know I don't need to say this but I do like and respect the guy and it gives me no pleasure at all to vote for him but I'm as certain as I can be of anyone that something is up with him. Having said that, not one of you (with the possible exception of Golden) was even willing to give my proposition the time of day. If you (TH, MP, Golden, Mac, Bulls, etc.) are indeed Town, it appears to me that you have lost your objectivity and in that (more than just your judgement on me) you are letting our team down.

TH, if you want to vote for me, please - be my guest. You've tunneled on me this game from almost the very beginning and even when your ability to post coherently was impeded, you still managed to voice your displeasure every time anyone even remotely suggested that I looked 'good'. If you can convince enough people to follow you in lynching me it will at least achieve one thing for our team - it will give everyone pause to question your judgement and that in the end, can only be a good thing.

Enrique wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Enrique wrote:Got the ball rolling for you, juliets. Let's lynch sprityo.

You don't think he's Freeze?

I think he's bluffing, pulling every trick to avoid being lynched. He tried the emotional appeal with Dom, didn't work, now "ok whatever i dont need to be playing" and people bought it without much of an issue.

If you REALLY believe that I would walk on my team (yes, even if they are somewhat deluded in their judgements) you are dead wrong my friend. While I may be dismayed at their performance, I'm not going to let my team down - for much the same reason that I wouldn't ever self-vote (unless for some reason such a course would benefit the Town and I have done that once...).

More to come...

Turnip Head wrote:What I see is you making 12 on-topic posts yesterday, only one of which discusses who you are suspicious of, and you vote on the basis of post. Do you consider that to be thoughtful, considered and deliberate? I don't. You didn't wait to see other opinions on your case, you didn't wait for a response from your subject. You put the thought out there 4 hours before deadline and you voted on it. As town it behooves us to discuss our cases together and I don't see you partaking in those discussions. So your approach, to me, does not resemble the townie mindset - it looks like someone who wants to have an excuse to vote and who wants to get it over and done with as economically as possible. I don't think it is imprudent or unreasonable for me to find that approach suspicious.

I explained in my original post but I will do s again here for the sake of clarity. I am experiencing a high degree of frustration with this game and at one point had considered simply walking away. I was encouraged though by bea's comment about standing back and looking at things anew and that in so doing, it would give me a unique perspective on this game. Her post was subsequently endorsed by another player (can't remember who it was but I thought at the time it was someone whose opinions I respected). I spent a few hours that night looking things over and doing some analysis of MM's posts (that average of approximately 15 words/post was not a guess or a work of fiction). I was tired and thought I'd sleep on it and posted it the next morning in the first opportunity that I had. Granted, it would've been preferable to have posted it earlier but contrary to your assertion, the timing was NOT deliberate - it was simply a matter of circumstance. Which brings me to my next point:

Turnip Head wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Let me tell you, your credibility with me (as an individual, unrelated to this game) has taken a serious blow as a consequence of this. Let me tell you what this says to me. It says that like other players here, you're always going to support the more experienced players here over someone newer like me. The fact is, it's easier to dismiss the arguments of a newer player over those to whom you've had a lot of game exposure.

I know this was directed at Golden but you allude to it being directed at other players as well, and it saddens me. I don't think Golden is on a witch-hunt against newer players and I don't think anyone else is either. On Day 3 I led a lynch against a player I've played with on-and-off for 8 years. On Day 4, 16 players voted to lynch the creator and administrator of the site. If people are finding you suspicious, it is not because you are a newer player, and suspicions toward you are not indicative of suspicions against all new players. I hope you don't truly feel this way.

You have (to a degree) misrepresented what I said in that post. I am NOT suggesting for a second that Golden or anyone else has a list of players in TS career order from lowest to highest and is methodically working their way down that list. What I am saying is that the more experienced group of players are always going to support the opinions of your fellows over the contributions of those who are new to this site. Don't bother denying it - it is demonstrably true! Look at my post from the last Day phase for example - the ONLY remark or comment that I recall having been made in relation to that was Golden's comment that he'd forgotten that MM was even playing (which incidentally was precisely my point). A night phase and half a day later, there's not been a single reference made to the content of my post other than to use the timing of it as an excuse to suspect me. If you find that my holding this view saddens you TH, know that it saddens me too. I understand why it is that way and I'm not saying it is deliberate but it IS frustrating and annoying.

I was intending to spend my Friday night revisiting my case and doing some analysis to refute the argument that my performance this game is similar to my Star Wars performance (and I'm confident that the facts would bear out the fact that it is not) but I have come to the conclusion that it would be a monumental waste of my time and the effort it would take. The truth is you guys are not listening. I feel like I'm screaming up against a waterfall of ego (and in some cases malice) and I simply don't have the energy.

MovingPictures07 wrote:At this point in time I think I would prefer a lynch as follows:
1) SVS
2) Glorfindel
3) sprityo
4) no show

I also don't really particularly suspect Enrique anymore, but I'm keeping an eye on him. I think I was being a bit over critical in my analysis of his behavior.

Et tu MP?

I'm not lashing out at all Dom and I'm sorry if you've interpreted it that way. I was trying to address TH's criticism of my play style this game. I think what I'm trying to say is that I'd like to think my approach to my lynch choices could be considered to be thoughtful, considered and 'deliberate'. I didn't appreciate his criticism as I am trying to do my best for this Town team and for him to consider me 'suspicious' on those grounds is I think imprudent and unreasonable.

Golden wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I wanna say a sabie teammate might have thrown in the towel at some point but I feel pretty good about all the sabie votes. What do we think of Glofy's vote for MM? He did that thing again where he brings a case forth and votes for it all in the same breath after spending the rest of the day not talking about his reads.

I feel ok about Glorfindel, like thats his style. I could be wrong and he may have me fooled, but he reminds me of Star Wars mafia where he felt just slightly ruffled by people suggesting he was bad when he wasn't in a similar way to what he has done here.

He was bad in Star Wars. Check out his posts in Pikmin for what a civ Glorfindel could look like.

Oh, I forgot he was bad. Well then, consider my suspicion of Glorfindel reignited.

I still feel worse right now about SVS and sprit, though.

How ironic after you said this earlier in the game my friend...

Golden wrote:@glorf - You and sprit are new, and so is nerolunar, but I don't think any of you are being suspected for being new. Nero was correctly identified as bad. You were (perhaps erroneously) taking votes for your apparent Two Face claim, which you've since defended against and don't seem on the block today.

Sprit is playing his second game here, and some people have identified he is playing differently.

Putting that aside, I think almost any new player normally gets a small period of grace (one or two games) and then goes through a rough patch where they get incorrectly lynched because people think they have now got a handle on what kind of player they are and see them 'playing differently'. It certainly happened to me. Your point is fair in that sense...

Let me tell you, your credibility with me (as an individual, unrelated to this game) has taken a serious blow as a consequence of this. Let me tell you what this says to me. It says that like other players here, you're always going to support the more experienced players here over someone newer like me. The fact is, it's easier to dismiss the arguments of a newer player over those to whom you've had a lot of game exposure. That much is undeniable and you do so at your peril. I am convinced of the veracity of my argument from the last Day phase and intend to pursue that case for the remainder of this Day phase unless I can be convinced otherwise.

As for your assertion that my game here is more similar to my Star Wars performance, you'd better come at me with more than a vague statement like that my friend. Specifically how is it similar? On what basis are you making that assertion?

Turnip Head wrote:I wanna say a sabie teammate might have thrown in the towel at some point but I feel pretty good about all the sabie votes. What do we think of Glofy's vote for MM? He did that thing again where he brings a case forth and votes for it all in the same breath after spending the rest of the day not talking about his reads.

Unlike some of you, I have a full time job and other commitments that mean I can't spend every waking minute here. I do my best to contribute to this game and again, unlike some of you I am uncomfortable lynching a fellow player without some semblance of a case against them. I'd like to think that especailly as we get deeper into these games I prefer to substantiate my lynch with a case based on at least some kind of loose logic and to do so takes time. You may not have seen this from me because I think this is a personal best for me reaching Day 6 in one of your games but like it or not, it's how I roll.

As much as I share the suspicions of some of the candidates who've already attracted votes this Day phase, there is one other of whom I am most suspicious. I took bea's advice to heart and last night, stepped back and tried to open my mind to possibilities that I hadn't considered previously and now feel comfortable with my conclusion. I don't accept that none of the more prominent members here at TS are neither Mafia nor Mafia aligned independents (or at least are not Town aligned). Last night I took the opportunity to look in depth at one of the very accomplished members of this site (MM). Other than his vote on me last Day phase, I couldn't recall any contribution of significance from him and undertook an ISO of his posts and was astounded that he has contributed 160 posts to this game. If you haven't ISO'd him, I strongly recommend you do. At at an average post length of around 15 words that 160 posts consist of little more than off topic, flippant or trivial comments with next to no substantial analysis whatsoever. The votes that he's cast have had little to no justification and for a player of his experience and reputation, this set off alarm bells for me.

I then sought to confirm that his performance this game was different to what one would expect from him and so referenced the last game I played with him (Pikmin Mafia) and confirmed that his posting style was indeed very similar - only he WAS Mafia in that game. In my view and from my reading, I feel my vote for MetalMarsh is more than justified at this point.

Glorfindel wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:I really wouldn't object to a low/non-poster vote at this point. I remember in Bullets Over Broadway how much trouble that was giving the civilians in the end, having all these people still alive who weren't even there. With Equivocate, ekeknat, Bubbles, Bass and Floyd all being non-contributory, that number is high.

Chrysanthemums tawdrier maid nag.

This is the first remark you've made this Day phase my friend with which I concur...

To clarify, not necessarily THOSE low posters...

I'm REALLY not entirely comfortable with what I see here, Golden. There seems to be a focus in this game not so much on the low posters as it is on the newbies. To illustrate my point, take a look at the TS career posts of the players you named; Equivocate (5), ekeknat (78), Bubbles (195), Floyd (291) the only exception being Bass with a more impressive total of 1732 (despite the fact that I don't think they have posted since very early in the game). Look at the primary candidate for lynching last Day phase - it was me (again, <200 TS career posts) until MP's vote took off. And now there are people looking at Sprityo and while I haven't looked, I'll wager he's in the same boat.

While I agree that having 'non-active' players in the game is a bad thing (and I agree if they could be subbed that would be awesome) I don't see a lot of value in pursuing them at this point other than as you say, to simply thin the herd. I feel it would be more prudent to pursue those players that are somewhat more active and whose elimination is based on some perceived evidence/logic and whose departure may give us something to work with.

Glorfindel wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:I really wouldn't object to a low/non-poster vote at this point. I remember in Bullets Over Broadway how much trouble that was giving the civilians in the end, having all these people still alive who weren't even there. With Equivocate, ekeknat, Bubbles, Bass and Floyd all being non-contributory, that number is high.

Chrysanthemums tawdrier maid nag.

This is the first remark you've made this Day phase my friend with which I concur...

To clarify, not necessarily THOSE low posters...

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:I really wouldn't object to a low/non-poster vote at this point. I remember in Bullets Over Broadway how much trouble that was giving the civilians in the end, having all these people still alive who weren't even there. With Equivocate, ekeknat, Bubbles, Bass and Floyd all being non-contributory, that number is high.

Chrysanthemums tawdrier maid nag.

This is the first remark you've made this Day phase my friend with which I concur...

Glorfindel wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Dom wrote:Sabie, who should we lynch and why?


Glorfindel, who should we lynch and why?

I'm not sure Dom, the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned. There is something I'd like clarified that might help me come to a conclusion though.

This is the Penguin's ability:

Epignosis wrote: As a powerful informant, The Penguin learns the role of the person he votes for, and may blackmail his victim. The victim has a choice to either do whatever The Penguin says or have his or her role sent to a rival person. The Penguin wins by surviving.

Can anyone offer me an opinion on what the phrase "have his or her role sent to a rival person" means? Like if the target was a member of one of the crime families, the answer is I should think obvious but what if the target was other than Mafia, how do you see this playing out?

I take it to mean any one player with a conflicting win condition.

That is (I assume) where one is obvious and the player with the conflicting win condition is still alive. What I'm getting at though is just how significant an ability do we consider this to be? Would it be of greater gravity to some roles over others?

Reposting as I only got one answer to this. @Golden, @Dom, @MP and @Enrique - may I have your thoughts please? I ask respectfully as in addition to DH, you all seem to be more knowledgeable on these sorts of things and I genuinely value your input.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Dom wrote:Sabie, who should we lynch and why?


Glorfindel, who should we lynch and why?

I'm not sure Dom, the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned. There is something I'd like clarified that might help me come to a conclusion though.

This is the Penguin's ability:

Epignosis wrote: As a powerful informant, The Penguin learns the role of the person he votes for, and may blackmail his victim. The victim has a choice to either do whatever The Penguin says or have his or her role sent to a rival person. The Penguin wins by surviving.

Can anyone offer me an opinion on what the phrase "have his or her role sent to a rival person" means? Like if the target was a member of one of the crime families, the answer is I should think obvious but what if the target was other than Mafia, how do you see this playing out?

I take it to mean any one player with a conflicting win condition.

That is (I assume) where one is obvious and the player with the conflicting win condition is still alive. What I'm getting at though is just how significant an ability do we consider this to be? Would it be of greater gravity to some roles over others?

Dom wrote:Sabie, who should we lynch and why?


Glorfindel, who should we lynch and why?

I'm not sure Dom, the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned. There is something I'd like clarified that might help me come to a conclusion though.

This is the Penguin's ability:

Epignosis wrote: As a powerful informant, The Penguin learns the role of the person he votes for, and may blackmail his victim. The victim has a choice to either do whatever The Penguin says or have his or her role sent to a rival person. The Penguin wins by surviving.

Can anyone offer me an opinion on what the phrase "have his or her role sent to a rival person" means? Like if the target was a member of one of the crime families, the answer is I should think obvious but what if the target was other than Mafia, how do you see this playing out?

Golden wrote:Just read TH's responses to MP's rainbow list. At some point soon I should try and build a rainbow list of my own, but here are some thoughts after reading that TH post:

1) Glorfindel has done a good job of defending himself against being two-face (although I still agree more with Matt than, say, Bullz, about the likelihood of 5 of the first 10 posts having references to two in them.) I'm not sure why Glorf would hint at Two-Face, but the possible reason is that someone might feel the town-aligned aspects of Two-Face might make that role seem ok. But the bit Glorfindel hasn't defended effectively against, and for me it is the much more damning bit, is his case on sig just before sig died. It's a tactic I've used when bad, and I've seen many others use it - distance yourself from the kill by saying something that you 'wouldn't say' if you knew that sig was dying. For me, the idea that glorfindel is mafia and was responsible for killing sig holds more weight than the idea he is two-face.

I'm happy to address your concerns my friend, I just didn't realise that my 'Sig-post' was a thing I think I mentioned in my post my opinion that Sig had (to that point) been setting me up for lynching since the game started. I'd just come off a day phase where I'd been silenced and felt that it was all part of some elaborate plan of his to remove me. I didn't know what the dawn of the following day would bring (in terms of some other restriction or impediment to my posting) so in my judgement, I thought it most prudent to put my case to you at the last minute so if I wasn't around or was unable to post you could at least refer to my views on someone that I was convinced (at that point) to have been Mafia or some malicious escapee. Whether he was or not, time will tell. I'll admit that my views on poor old Sig are probably coloured by a previous game on another site where he demonstrated to me (what I considered) to be treachery of a scope that what breath-taking. Please don't misunderstand me here - I count Sig as a dear friend and I hope he would say the same of me. It's just that I'm perhaps a little over-sensitive to him in these games. I can say quite honestly that no one was more surprised than I at his demise that night.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.

So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?

I could be mistaken but I think this means that the TV show Gotham has it's spring premiere tonight

OK, well that's a reasonable theory I suppose? How the hell am I supposed to know that...

Bullzeye wrote:There is literally 0 chance Epi would reveal someone's role like that.

God forbid he'd give us a break this game... If you disagree with that interpretation I'd be happy to consider any alternate theories Is anyone silenced this Day phase that we know of?

Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.

So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?

RIP bea You'll be sadly missed

bea wrote:Glor - I for one like that you are polite. Don't loose that part of your game please. We could stand to have some more of it round these parts. I know it's hard to be the new guy in a super complex game with so much talk of meta but really you are in a unique position because you can see things the rest of us might miss because we are so used to each other. Don't be affraid to voice your opinions. I for one, welcome the fresh look.

Thank you for your encouragement bea

Turnip Head wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:I don't have the historical knowledge that many of you do about each other's playstyles (to which you refer frequently) and that doesn't help. And TH - damn straight I'm not going around making accusations against everyone. It's not that I don't want to tread on any toes (my interactions with Sig put the lie to that statement) - it's just that I don't want to fall into the temptation of making groundless, false and malicious accusations about others of the nature that continue to be made about me.

I saw your play in Pikmin and you did not let a lack of historical context or a worry about being wrong stop you from trying to influence the game. In any case you can't let that fear stop you. If you're a civ we're going to need your help to win this game. Show me your fight.

Very well, my friend - I will try harder (although I'm not entirely convinced that I'm playing differently than in Pikmin). Having said that, I was in kind a power role in that game that may have given me more confidence than I do in a vanilla Town role