The Syndicate

Enrique wrote:

Golden wrote:

Enrique wrote:

Golden wrote:@Hosts - what happens if both crime families try to buy off the same cop?

Bass's idea sounds sensible enough, but I'd also point out that everyone from the Asylum appears to be independent. So, it might not help us find the crime families (who seem more analagous to mafia).

But a lot of those independents don't seem exactly friendly.

Independents whom most civvies need dead to win

They do? It doesn't look to me like ANY civilians need the independents dead, to me. Whereas the town definitely needs the crime families dead.

This is literally the first think I noticed when I got my role card, so right back at you.

This post, juliets. It can be interpreted as "we don't need ALL independents [correction: baddies] dead," but look at that last bit. This is literally the first thing I noticed when I got my role card. That's not how it works. All but three civvie roles NEED to kill indies to even win the game. No matter if they can win with the other nine, the fact is that civvies can't win without indie hunting, and he even proposes just hunting the baddies and leaving the rest to luck. What kind of role card even suggests that? Well, there are three civvie options. And fifteen baddie ones.

This is so incredibly misleading and twiwtsy.

Enrique, this is the last time I'll say this. There are literally NO civilian roles for whom independent chasing is the best move. Except the dirty cops who get recruited.

The civilian cops need 6 out of 6 baddies dead and 1 out of 10 independents dead. The other three need 6 out of 6 baddies dead and 0 out of 10 independents dead.

On the other hand, the independents don't have any stake in killing the baddies (Except one or two discrete instances like the joker) so how do you get 'there are fifteen baddie roles that need to baddie hunt'.... That makes no sense at all. Plus, you still fail to address my point that going after independents is exactly what the baddies WOULD be doing.

And you say '15 baddie ones' which just goes to prove that you are still painting the independents as mafia when they are not.

I'll tell you how many role cards suggest chasing the baddies before the indys.

13 civilian ones.
And NOONE else.
Thats it.

Enrique wrote:

Golden wrote:@sig - I'd be up for Fish Mooney's, that sounds like a good idea.

On the other hand, the idea of heading to Arkham right after the breakout still might be a good one despite the fact they aren't the mafia.

Why is this a good idea, Golden? If they are independents and not baddies, why do you agree with the majority here in that we should pursue them? Or am I misinterpreting you? I'm actually asking, why do you think this is a good idea?

If there are actually useful hints there, they won't be there for long.

Enrique wrote:To be clear, I am not arguing against prioritizing scum-hunt over indie-hunt (I currently have no intention of voting AA). But we are going to have to do both. The bigger picture here is that with no indies dead, only three civvies win. They matter a lot. I also really want to get an answer from the host re: when the game ends, because that would suck ass if we killed the two mafia families before anybody else and no one won as a result lol.

linki:

I think trying to focus the thread very squarely on independent hunting is exactly what the baddies would want to do.

Totally called this misrepresentation. I love how bad you are already. I'm reading your role card post added to your reluctance to go after independents as a huuge early slip. Even if you were one of the three other GCPD roles, surely you'd understand that the rest of the team can't win as easily.

What possible baddie motivation is there to be reluctant to go after independents? Please - make a rational case out of that for me.

The rest of the team CAN win as easily, and I've explained this to you over and over. How many people will usually be alive at game end, about 6 on average? I think the chances of a civilian cop being alive at the end when the cops win, and his independent counterpart also being alive to be slim. Heck, if I did or have rolled a cop I would be saying exactly what I'm saying now. It would be my job to find the one person I need to kill, and lynching my way through ten independents to get there would just be selfish. Killing a baddie is in the interests of everyone. Killing an independent is in the interests of one person. It's really straightforward.

You are fighting and pushing to chase independents. Why?
You ignore my logical points. Why?
You think that as a baddie I'm going to come out swinging against going after independents? WHY? Like I just pointed out, the baddies couldn't be happier if everyone goes chasing independents.
You ignore the others who have taken my points and agree with me. Why?

Is it because I nailed you in Star Wars, and you feel threatened?

C'mon, rationalise where you think my headspace is at for any of that to be true, Enrique. Convince me that your stuff about me is in any way genuine. Because right now all I see is someone making bad arguments to try and pin a motive on me that makes no sense, and I don't know why that would be your response instead of just actually recognising I have a point. You seem completely locked into your idea, and unwilling to budge from it, and its like you are trying to push a logical point of your own to make it seem genuine but your logical point just makes no sense. Each one of those cops, if they eliminate the baddies, can win with NINE of the independents alive.

By the way, I still think I'll probably vote Arkham. The leads are hot now. But I'm telling you that I will be pushing in this game VERY hard to stay focussed on the BADDIES. The independents are no loss, but they are exactly who the baddies want us to lynch while they clean us up.

And yeah, because doubling down on flawed ideas and not listening to reason is often a baddie tell.

linki @ Matt - why am I being strange? I seem to always get called strange these days.

DrWilgy wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Eighth

God I have missed playing mafia with you and everyone else. Also on that note I know the games that I signed up for in the past I didn't participate or subbed out its because I got into a serious relationship and couldn't figure out how to balance the two. Me and my lady friend have moved into together so it should make balancing the two a lot easier. So my hat goes off to anyone who has a significant other and plays mafia because it's extremely hard if your significant other is like mine and doesn't like cell phones or laptops out while we are hanging out. Lol

Well Golden! That's a nice big glass of WIFOM, mind if I have a sip? Why did you wait until we were in game to let us know about this? You could've mentioned it in the pre game lobby... Er... Maybe you did. Didn't really check but I'm assuming you didn't based upon your posts. Also... Are we hinting at rolls already Golden? *sings* ~Epi's gonna kill you!~

I'd like to go GCPD.

I've been mentioning it in every game for about the last three months, but it bears repetition.

And I haven't hinted at a role, but I've certainly hinted that I'm town.

Enrique wrote:Okay, Golden. I'm glad you're coming out as bad so early in the game.

No u.

The civilians win if the baddies are dead. That's what matters to me. If Cop 1# was to be recruited tonight, for example, there is absolutely no need for Cop #1's independent counterpart to be lynched by the town. If cop #4 dies, there is no need to lynch cop #4s independent counterpart. We would create huge inefficiency by trying to take out EVERY independent. Each person who needs to take out one should focus on figuring out who they are and getting rid of them.

I'm absolutely sure some independents will go along the way, and there are probably good reasons to actively hunt them for certain reasons, but the baddies should be our primary focus, not the independents.

And if your approach to my basic and fairly straightforward logic of 6 out of 6 as opposed to 1 out of 10' is simply to call me bad without addressing the point, then I'm not sure why I should feel good about you. I think trying to focus the thread very squarely on independent hunting is exactly what the baddies would want to do.

Enrique wrote:@Hosts I take it the game ends when two out of the three main competing factions (GCPD + the mafias) are dead? Or do all independent-related conflicts need to be resolved as well? (Joker vs Batman, Gordon, Falcone and Maroni for example)

linki:

@Golden: Every independent is assigned to a civvie. It makes sense that if we want the civives to win, we'd go after them. And yes, Wayne Manor should probably be counted as civvies as well, so that's 13/16 civs with an indie hunt in their best interests.
(linki2: Okay, so now it's a better option)

@sig:

I'd think the hospital could help players if they get poisoned or something like that.

I doubt anybody's starting the game poisoned, so maybe leave that for later.

No, I don't think it means 'an indy hunt' is the best approach. If there are 9 indies someone doesn't need dead, the chances of them finding their one by hunting indies seems very slim. The town needs 6 out of 6 baddies dead and most of them need 1 out of 10 independents dead. That's a very different strike rate.

@sig - I'd be up for Fish Mooney's, that sounds like a good idea.

On the other hand, the idea of heading to Arkham right after the breakout still might be a good one despite the fact they aren't the mafia.

Enrique wrote:10 / 13 civvies have an independent assigned to them that they have to kill. So uhh yeah I would expect you to notice that from your role card.

Yeah, but that is different from needing 'the independents' dead. We all need the crime families dead whereas, for instance, only one of us needs any given independent dead. Out of 16, including Wayne Manor.

But it looks pretty decently in Wayne Manor's interests to take them out.

Enrique wrote:

Golden wrote:@Hosts - what happens if both crime families try to buy off the same cop?

Bass's idea sounds sensible enough, but I'd also point out that everyone from the Asylum appears to be independent. So, it might not help us find the crime families (who seem more analagous to mafia).

But a lot of those independents don't seem exactly friendly.

Independents whom most civvies need dead to win

They do? It doesn't look to me like ANY civilians need the independents dead, to me. Whereas the town definitely needs the crime families dead.

This is literally the first think I noticed when I got my role card, so right back at you.

@Hosts - what happens if both crime families try to buy off the same cop?

Bass's idea sounds sensible enough, but I'd also point out that everyone from the Asylum appears to be independent. So, it might not help us find the crime families (who seem more analagous to mafia).

But a lot of those independents don't seem exactly friendly.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Eighth

God I have missed playing mafia with you and everyone else. Also on that note I know the games that I signed up for in the past I didn't participate or subbed out its because I got into a serious relationship and couldn't figure out how to balance the two. Me and my lady friend have moved into together so it should make balancing the two a lot easier. So my hat goes off to anyone who has a significant other and plays mafia because it's extremely hard if your significant other is like mine and doesn't like cell phones or laptops out while we are hanging out. Lol

It really is. The key is negotiation. Good luck bass! And congrats, I'm happy for you!

S~V~S wrote:Eighth

SVS and I have an 8 bond.

Looks like you are in the clear sig.

I know I say this and then people still sus me anyway but...

I'm GOING to be quieter this game.

I have a plan for the very few games I can sign up for in the coming months. Arkham was not on that plan. I just started a new role at work, and have heaps of other stuff going on in real life, so I need to be very careful with my time.

sig wrote:It wouldn't be a new record so no thank you, if you can lynch my day 0 then go ahead otherwise I'd prefer not to get lynched until mid game.

@hosts - can we lynch sig day zero?

sig wrote:First!

To be lynched?