The Syndicate

Glorfindel I finished reading your iso from this game and note I was reading for tone only and do see a difference in this game and Star Wars. In this game you've been frustrated at times and it showed but in that game your defensiveness and frustration was overflowing the bucket. I copied this post out of Star Wars to show you what I mean:

Spoiler: show

You seemed to take things very personally and reacted in kind in that game (this wasn't the only post that referred to an "us vs. them" scenario). Now I have seen you in this game say things like you just thought it would be a waste of time to do something because people don't listen to you but i haven't seen anything like what's posted in the spoiler.

I'm going to iso you in Pikmin and see what i see on that side of the coin.

Ok I've read through Star Wars and see you had many less posts in that game than in this one so far. I haven't read your iso in this game recently though so I need to do that before i can really compare. I have a few things to do first so it will be a little while before I can do the comparison.

Typhoony wrote:
juliets wrote:
Typhoony wrote:Can someone point out the differences for me between Glorfindels Star Wars game and this game (or point me to a post where someone already does)?
I'm reading his posts over there now but I can't remember if he was good or bad in that game. Which was it?
You took the trouble of going to that thread to read his posts but you're too lazy to look up what role he was?

He was bad.

I didn't know where to look that up and thanks Gorfindel to you and Typh.

Typhoony wrote:Can someone point out the differences for me between Glorfindels Star Wars game and this game (or point me to a post where someone already does)?

I'm reading his posts over there now but I can't remember if he was good or bad in that game. Which was it?

Oh thanks Dom - that is very helpful.

RIP MM, as always it's fun to have you along.

SVS I don't know either so I'm on the same mission you are.

Hooray we got another!! And just checking in to say I have not been riddled Typh.

S~V~S wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
juliets wrote:
sprityo wrote:just for the simple fact that the floyd lynch will more than likely go through, (which i do support, dont get me wrong) ill be saving my vote for later, and if it's not needed, ill drop it on myself
sprityo, why would you drop a vote on yourself if youre not bad and not an inmate? i just don't understand.
Why do you think only baddies vote for themselves? Sprit may be bad, but a self vote can be from frustration,and in my experience that is the usual reason for it.
Sprit's comment in general looks super shifty (almost as shifty as TH). Like he's okay with a Floyd lynch - but if he doesn't have to save himself he'll vote himself? What does that even mean?
I was asking Jules a question; she seems to be saying that she does not unerstand why someone would self vote if not bad. I am not commenting on Sprit himself at all. I am asking Jules a question;why does she think that? As a self voter, this answer interests me.

You don't see me voting for you do you? I understand it can be something civs do when frustrated but he hasn't acted frustrated.

sprityo wrote:just for the simple fact that the floyd lynch will more than likely go through, (which i do support, dont get me wrong) ill be saving my vote for later, and if it's not needed, ill drop it on myself

sprityo, why would you drop a vote on yourself if youre not bad and not an inmate? i just don't understand.

I am going to go ahead and vote Floyd.

Turnip Head wrote:
juliets wrote:Oh wait - it was because he hinted that he's fulfilled his win conditions right?
That's pretty much all there is to it.

Yeah I must have lost my mind to forget that, it was a pretty big deal. Unless something comes up that's big or very persuasive I will probably be voting Floyd with MP.

Oh wait - it was because he hinted that he's fulfilled his win conditions right?

Turnip Head wrote:
Enrique wrote:Got the ball rolling for you, juliets. Let's lynch sprityo.
You don't think he's Freeze?

It slipped through my mind that some thought he might be Freeze. TH, can you reiterate the point or reason he's thought to be Freeze? Or if you covered it in another post let me know and I'll looks at your iso. Or maybe all you can tell me is you saw a hint and you can't say more. I just don't remember what the reason was.

oops I have to correct myself. sprityo does have a vote, I just missed it when I looked at the votes.

I'm back early but see nothing much happened while I was gone. I don't have any interest in voting for the people who already have votes today - maybe I will make it a day to vote one of the no shows. Or maybe sprityo. I just can't make up my mind right now. Hopefully some people will want to discuss other candidates besides the ones voted for.

I will be out of the thread from 9:30 am until somewhere around 5 - 5:30 pm this afternoon. I hope there are not 10 pages to catch up on before I can vote but I know there are no promises. See ya'll then.

Golden I'm not hung up on the killing of inactives but I am hung up on her voting for herself. I was also bad with her in AWR and saw her frustrated but never did she even mention voting herself. I just don't understand that move if she is bad, with so few people on a team it would make a big impact. I'm not dismissing your theory that she's bad, just letting you know where I'm tripped up.

MacDougall wrote:
juliets wrote:Mac, please don't do that.
Do what? Be a sarcastic jerk?

No, please don't just sit back and not play.

Mac, please don't do that.

Thanks for the response Golden.

Golden wrote:
juliets wrote:Golden, I am trying to get a handle on the SVS suspicion. I saw what Dom had to say - do you have different reasons for suspecting her or are they the saem. If you covered this and I missed it just point me to your iso.
The same as what? I haven't had time to flesh it out more, but I do think she could be sabie's teammate.

I was asking if your reasons are the same as Dom's reasons but I see now they probably aren't. Thanks for the response.

Golden, I am trying to get a handle on the SVS suspicion. I saw what Dom had to say - do you have different reasons for suspecting her or are they the saem. If you covered this and I missed it just point me to your iso.

Glorfindel wrote:I'm not lashing out at all Dom and I'm sorry if you've interpreted it that way. I was trying to address TH's criticism of my play style this game. I think what I'm trying to say is that I'd like to think my approach to my lynch choices could be considered to be thoughtful, considered and 'deliberate'. I didn't appreciate his criticism as I am trying to do my best for this Town team and for him to consider me 'suspicious' on those grounds is I think imprudent and unreasonable.

Glorifindel, I would say you are deliberate but as someone else said the suspicious part is though you posted other times during the day you didn't mention MM once. People who are accused deserve a chance to reply to the accusations and the way you posted all of a sudden all at once and then voted didn't leave anytime for a reply. I hear you that you work all day but you did post those other times, why not mention you were considering MM in one of those posts?

MovingPictures07 wrote:At this point in time I think I would prefer a lynch as follows:
1) SVS
2) Glorfindel
3) sprityo
4) no show

I also don't really particularly suspect Enrique anymore, but I'm keeping an eye on him. I think I was being a bit over critical in my analysis of his behavior.

MP what do you see in SVS other than what Dom said? If I just missed it refer me to your ipo. Also, she has voted herself.

I'm out for the night. Thank you Epi for getting that post up so quickly.

Golden wrote:I wonder if we just lost the commissioner.

Rip scotty.

Did you see a hint that suggested that Golden?

RIP Scotty. Hmm I need to take a look at your posts to see if you were onto someone. Looking forward to another game with you!

Yes me too - can we chop some hours out of the day and get the post time back to where it was?

Yes very clever. I'll probably be in bed again.

Yippee! We got another mafia! sabie, I hope things improve for you, I'm sorry you are going through bad times right now.

sprityo wrote:@juliets

If you honestly, in your gut, etc, know I'm anti town. Then by all means. But if you're (you being everyone here) just looking to vote something, then please reconsider.

I'm voting sabie today. You came out and defended yourself while Sabie came but did not respond to my post. That to me shows signs of guilt, that she just doesnt want to bother with it anymore. Of course thats an assumption but I think it is easily drawn from her behavior.

sprityo wrote:Essentially now, or at least how I'm interpreting it, is that I answered all of Juliette questions, minus say I need to go back and provide a nice read of some stuff, and all the suspicion now comes down to this silly "I don't care if you lynch me, oh and I hinted my role" so now we're upset by this? Like I'm confused still like how I was with the whole Scotty Wilgy thing from day one in. Why? Since it feels like it's a lot of "ew no, I'm voting you cause I dislike that"

Like damn if you don't like my silly "breadcrumb" then don't get offended by it people. Either look for it, ignore it, or some third option.

Linki: and there you go^^

I mentioned it because it is part of the whole look on you. It was actually not the breadcrumb but the voting yourself that I find odd unless you are Ra’s al Ghul. And you never did answer my question whether you are advocating we vote for you or not if you self vote.

DH Here is a series of posts between me and sprityo:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 26#p237126
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 27#p237127
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 03#p237303
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 01#p237401

All my answers are in blue. Also, you might want to see the little section between these big posts where Sprityo was talking about leaving breadcrumbs and voting for himself. If you look at my iso you'll see it because I questioned him on it.

DH here is the link to the post I made about sabie
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 79#p237079

I'll send the sprityo posts separately.

I don't remember seeing cases by others but there could be some things scattered about (suspicions) that arent captured here.

Glorifindel, who are you proposing that we vote for today?

DH I will link you in just a moment.

sprityo wrote:@Juliets

1. Yeah, I'll think about it. Probably when I get some down time.
Yes, i hope you will do this.

2. At the time, in this topic, he had relatively low posts, as far as I could tell from skimming over at the beginning. The only other time I really took note of him in day 0/day 1 (I forget when I made that post) was him arguing with zebra
You posted aboub Matt on Feb. 17th. Between Feb 15th and Feb. 16th Matt posted 31 posts. On Feb. 17th he got bit by the dog. I think 31 posts in two game days shows a decent degree of participation. Some of this posts were lengthy too - they were not just one liners.

3. Quote this for me since I don't remember. And if it came out condescending, I'm sure it was not my intention to sound as such.
I quoted it already in the iso I did but I'll quote it again. It should be easy to remember because you were called out on it.
Spoiler: show
sprityo wrote:Okay, so it was between Scotty and Wilgy and you ended up not being able to lynch either?

1. Why Wilgy?

2. Why Scotty?

I actually am having a zero understanding of either of these.

Okay, not zero, but I don't understand the logic of why you guys voted for Scotty aside from his wanting to lynch a low poster
4.the interest has burned down but it's not gone, I smoosh this in with the point 1. above.
Ok, my answer is the same as for number 1.

5. Oh yes for sure, I mean it looks terrible just dumping it on at the end, I mean I might as well not have voted at all, but yes. I see your point.

7.
sprityo wrote:
juliets wrote: -
Spoiler: show
sprityo wrote:
S~V~S wrote: I might also vote for sprityo; that one post where in the same post he says, meh, I could vote Typhoony (inexplicable Penguin suspect), as well as saying he agrees that locating the Penguin isn't as important as locating the Mafia. So cocoa & brb.
In truth SVS, i dont care much for the penguin. At least personally i dont. My logic being either yay, we got rid of a town liability (no shows) or, there's a half decent case for possible penguin. I was really just gonna leave it up to the numbers and vote for whichever was in the lead (as you can see, i did vote floyd). Im not one for high risks, and im certainly not about to have a wall post fight with someone (mostly because all i could do is defend myself and not make any counters). But needless to say, the whole penguin theory was shoddy at best.

Alright, yknow what, I am actually fine with the response I gave, because it's how I actually feel on it, judge how you like

Thanks for responding sprityo and i will look forward to hearing from you when you review the things you don't currently recall.

Typhoony wrote:I think he's saying that he didn't leave any role hints.

At least, I hope so.

Oh, now I see. You're saying the comment was sarcastic. Good, I can quit pouring over those posts again.

sprityo wrote:I'm not ready to remove my pants, so until that time comes, you're just gonna have to wait.

Although you can try looking through my meager ~100 posts for a clue, I doubt you'll find it.

Well, I don't think I found it the first time but I will certainly read through them again.

sprityo wrote:To bring this full circle- "breadcrumb"

To bring what full circle? And are you saying thats a breadcrumb? Can you be a little more clear in your explanation? Are you saying you want others to vote for you like MP was saying?

sprityo wrote:Linki: I was getting to that-

I would vote myself or any of Floyd/equivocate/bubbles. I see Sabie is sorta around, but she would be another vote I would consider

In all honesty, j could save myself some trouble and vote myself

Wait, why would you vote yourself??

sprityo, just want to make sure you didn't miss that Scotty had a question for you too: GTH who would you vote right now.

sabie was just online for awhile but didn't come to respond to my case. I'm worried she is not going to.

sprityo wrote:
sprityo wrote:
juliets wrote:I didn't find a lot in sprityos posts to point to him being a baddie but I did find some things I want to call out and get his response to. Some of these are small things but since I detailed him I want to get those small things cleared up before they become big things.

The first thing is his comment that people should just sit back while these wall posts were going on and build on the mistakes made later. The only trouble is I never saw him refer back to that comment by building on any mistakes made. Maybe he did but if so I didn't recognize it in my iso.

ive forgotten about this entirely.....
I hope you will go back and take a look and maybe point to places you built on these early mistakes.

Next was the comment made about Matt that he might not enjoy the spotlight. I saw that as laying down a suspicion that maybe Matt was bad because he wasn't as high profile as others. I personally haven't noticed this about Matt and he has 387 posts, in the top quarter of high posters in this game. I don't know if Matt is bad or not but this reason does not seem legit to me.

i have exactly watched games on this forum, nor have I ever interacted with Matt, this seems a perfectly fine question to ask to get to know someone a little better
How could it be a perfectly fine question when he had so many posts?

Then we have his seemlingly dismayed reaction to the tie between Wilgy and Scotty. He seemed to be casting aspersions at the group - I don't know if he was going to narrow that down or not - but a note here is he didn't vote at all. So which is worse - trying and ending in a tie or just not voting. It seems like something a baddie would do.

i have a life and know for a fact I was busy that day. I even commented how I had just missed it
But why did you make a post so condescending toward the Wilgy and Scotty voters? It sounded like you were trying to cast suspicion.

He also mentioned that he was not feeling good about Enrique though he didn't know why. I would have expected him to ISO Enrique or in some other way try to confirm what was making him feel pinged but I didn't see any evidence of that throughout the game. I didn't see the suspicion mentioned again.

correct, I haven't gone back to it yet, and probably won't. I mean, I COULD but
It'd take me actually wanting to
Does this mean you lost suspicion of him before investigating your ping? I"m just not sure what you're saying here.

In the vote for Nerolunar sprityo voted last. This made me wonder if perhaps sprityo was Nero's partner. I realize other people who voted at the end may also be suspect in this area but since he was dead last I thought I would mention it.

same instance with the MP lynch. There was no way in hell my vote would matter to turn the lynch around, especially since you can't change your vote
But do you see how it looks like you could be bussing Nero?

Then he advises MP to look at the second big group of voters - including him - for possible bussing. I had a thought here that maybe sprityo was trying to waive away suspicion by including himself in the group.

this was a sincere thing I have to mp, I simply threw myself in there for ease of reading. I mean I could go the stock, "I known I'm town so you don't have to look at me" spiel, but that's it. Not to mention, does it really matter if I included myself or not? Everyone has their suspicions and simply providing a set of information in which I account myself doesn't mean it's a buss or cover.
Fair enough.

Regarding Typhoony, he first says if Penguin is not Typhoony then who is the Penguin? He doesnt follow that up with any thoughts about who it could be but goes on to say they should be looking for Nero's partner not the penguin. In the middle of saying this she says she could vote for Typhoony. SVS caught this in the thread and sprityo explained which I included in a spoiler. See if it is a good enough explanation for you.

ugh now I've gotta go find this and respond separately
I'll look forward to your response.

Makes another statement about something he is going to do, provide useful information if the hosts answer the question about whether Montoya has to use the power of the role but after the host answered I didn't see anything forthcoming on this subject.

the answer was not the answer I wanted, therefore voiding any usefulness to the comment in general
Fair enough.

And finally, on her vote for MP she voted like she just looked at the list, saw he had most of the votes and voted him. Gave no reason at all.

One thing that sprityo posted that had people agreeing with him was a post about Mac's breadcrumbs. I included that post in a spoiler close to the bottom of the page.

Like I said this is not overwhelming evidence of being a baddie but there are some things to question. I hope sprityo is able to address these things soon.

I didn't find a lot in sprityos posts to point to him being a baddie but I did find some things I want to call out and get his response to. Some of these are small things but since I detailed him I want to get those small things cleared up before they become big things.

The first thing is his comment that people should just sit back while these wall posts were going on and build on the mistakes made later. The only trouble is I never saw him refer back to that comment by building on any mistakes made. Maybe he did but if so I didn't recognize it in my iso.

Next was the comment made about Matt that he might not enjoy the spotlight. I saw that as laying down a suspicion that maybe Matt was bad because he wasn't as high profile as others. I personally haven't noticed this about Matt and he has 387 posts, in the top quarter of high posters in this game. I don't know if Matt is bad or not but this reason does not seem legit to me.

Then we have his seemlingly dismayed reaction to the tie between Wilgy and Scotty. He seemed to be casting aspersions at the group - I don't know if he was going to narrow that down or not - but a note here is he didn't vote at all. So which is worse - trying and ending in a tie or just not voting. It seems like something a baddie would do.

He also mentioned that he was not feeling good about Enrique though he didn't know why. I would have expected him to ISO Enrique or in some other way try to confirm what was making him feel pinged but I didn't see any evidence of that throughout the game. I didn't see the suspicion mentioned again.

In the vote for Nerolunar sprityo voted last. This made me wonder if perhaps sprityo was Nero's partner. I realize other people who voted at the end may also be suspect in this area but since he was dead last I thought I would mention it.

Then he advises MP to look at the second big group of voters - including him - for possible bussing. I had a thought here that maybe sprityo was trying to waive away suspicion by including himself in the group.

Regarding Typhoony, he first says if Penguin is not Typhoony then who is the Penguin? He doesnt follow that up with any thoughts about who it could be but goes on to say they should be looking for Nero's partner not the penguin. In the middle of saying this she says she could vote for Typhoony. SVS caught this in the thread and sprityo explained which I included in a spoiler. See if it is a good enough explanation for you.

Makes another statement about something he is going to do, provide useful information if the hosts answer the question about whether Montoya has to use the power of the role but after the host answered I didn't see anything forthcoming on this subject.

And finally, on her vote for MP she voted like she just looked at the list, saw he had most of the votes and voted him. Gave no reason at all.

One thing that sprityo posted that had people agreeing with him was a post about Mac's breadcrumbs. I included that post in a spoiler close to the bottom of the page.

Like I said this is not overwhelming evidence of being a baddie but there are some things to question. I hope sprityo is able to address these things soon.

Ok these posts are so long I have broken them up into two posts. This post represents what I pulled from the iso that i thought had some merit and then in the next post i sum up what i found in the posts. Forgive me sprityo if I say she andwhere.

He had 83 posts at the time I did this and I still think he's at 83.

- expresses dismay over wall posts and said she just wants to read straight and simple suspicions; says people can't form their own opinion with these giant posts especially if its all civs; thoughts to sit back a couple of days and build on mistakes made;
- to zebra - why you disagree with AA option and why did it get so drawn out?; you and Matt twisting your words around; thing with MP looked like misunderstanding and should be dropped by now
- to zebra - whats point in arguing about AA when all but 10 people have already voted for it
- all received the same message at asylum; don't know what it means but assume we as players are going to interact with the cards at some point
- Mac says scotty is shifty and sprityo adds "when is he not shifty. lmao"
- informs enrique that MP said he was going to be busy; asks if Matt is a low poster;felt like the way he engaged with zebra he might have more to say; suggests he may not enjoy the spotlight
- I quote this next part because enrique raises a suspicion"

Spoiler: show

- Enrique asks GTH question; sprityo answers with maybe Matt but also goes on to say maybe a low poster because in her experience if they're gone 4 days they're gone and Epi doesn't modkill
- as another tidbit reminder says its easy for mafia to defend new people
- doesn't vote; then afterwards seems to express dismay that it was between Wilgy and Scotty:

Spoiler: show

- says would have voted Floyd or lovedelic
- suspects Enrique but not sure why
- votes last for Nerolunar
- advises MP if he wants to look at people who could have bussed nero look at black rock through herself (sprityo)
- asks if poisoning still going on and whats going on with the Penguin, no one has talked about him
- agrees with Matt that the Penguin could be blackmailing MP
- so Typh wouldn't do such a not good blackmail so who is it then?
- says she is good voting Typh but then says they should be hunting Neros partner not the Penguin; says she also good with any of the no posters
- votes Floyd says she doesnt agree with BR or Mac lynches
-

Spoiler: show

-makes several guesses as to who Mac could be based on breadcrumbs then says this:

Spoiler: show

-says once she knows if his host question whether Montoya has to silence every night he can toss some useful info into the thread (couldnt find this useful info in her posts yet I know the hosts answered this question not just for Montoya but for all players)
-says zebra is a visiting role but never answers the question when asked what that means
- last post, jokey vote for MP:

Spoiler: show

I'm about to post a really long post and then a fairly long one after it. I apologize in advance but I couldn't think of another way to do it.

I've reviewed sabie's 19 posts and here is what I found:

- sabie references being behind or catching up in 5 of her posts
- she appears to have missed the first vote maybe because she had just replaced in
- says that the whole change of mind by Enrique about Matt is weird, seems suspicious of it
- wonders if Enrique was forced to change his mind mid-day
- sticks with Matt vote; says Matt's posts have been strange even without the knock knock; says Enrique's decision to change his mind is odd; can't figure whats up - confused.
- defends herself that thinking enrique is weird for changing his vote randomly does not make her bad
- votes MP makes comment that he kept mentioning sig over and over again the exact same way which seemed weird; also mentions MP wanting to die
- votes MP again "Voted MP because he kept talking about sig and now sigs dead."

OK, here's what I see in sabie's posts. Before i read her my impression is she didn't fully comprehend the things going on around her because she was always catching up. Thus, her vote for vote for Matt was because she didn't realize Enrique had gone hard against going Matt, and that she didn't get that MP was cursed and that's why he was saying what he did about sig.

On the first point I think there is plenty of evidence she saw Enrique backed off Matt and implored people not to vote for him. We discussed this in the thread at the time and I think everyone else understood Enrique felt he had made a mistake and thats why he was warding us off of Matt. sabie was the only person who put a vote on Matt
after Enrique pulled off of him. I still don't feel like we have a good explanation for that as all she said is Enrique's move seemed strange and it confused her.

On the second point how did she miss something so big? We speculated as to why MP was posting that sig was his number 1 suspect and I think we all agreed it was because he had been cursed in some way, the question was only who. I don't understand why she voted him - twice - because he was repeating the mantra about sig when the curse was so obvious.

So in the end I think these these votes were suspicious and this pings me about sabie.

Turnips legend. See top entry which is "against" -

Turnip Head wrote:
Enrique wrote:Hey TH repeat after me

against
Chrysanthemums tawdrier maid nag.

Enrique wrote:concerning
Chrysanthemums awarding dam tire.

Enrique wrote:down
Chrysanthemums rainwater dam dig.

Enrique wrote:like
Chrysanthemums awarding rim date.

Enrique wrote:off
Chrysanthemums awarding dream it.

Enrique wrote:opposite
Chrysanthemums tawdrier magna id.

Dom wrote:Juliets what did you think when MP came under fire for describing his own civ meta?

I don't even remember it so it must not have made that much of an impression. What is not cool about defending myself by talking about my normal behavior as a civ?

DharmaHelper wrote:Who would you like to lynch today Juliets?

As I said a little earlier I'm going to take a look at the iso's of sabie and sprityo. It depends on what I see or what happens today as to where i will go next.

If I recall correctly "Chrysanthemums tawdrier maid nag." meant "against" in the legend Turnip posted. it will be easy to look back and see.

juliets wrote:
HamburgerBoy wrote: See this comment about me by Hamburger Boy in GOC.

juliets wrote:
Ricochet wrote:All I'm reading in juliets' post is I'm following Mac's, Epig's and Sorsha's train of thoughts.
Yes, that is exactly what i am saying. Is there something wrong with that? Sometimes people post their thoughts to persuade others and whether or not that was their intent, I was persuaded to look hard at Lorab as a result of those posts. That's how the game works.
This is exactly the same juliets I saw last game, and it's just as suspicious as ever to me. I know she said that she was playing her usual game back then as well, but I definitely can't ignore this. Gun to head scum.
I understand what you're saying about last game we played (and I will reiterate this answer to Ricochet is indicative of my style) but i don't understand why you see my reply as suspicious. Can you explain that for me?

I have several appointments today and will likely not be back until 5:00+ pm. Just want everyone to know why I'm not responding to any questions or putting forth any thoughts during the day. I still suspect Lorab but whether I vote for her is dependent on what her reply is to the comments made about her.

I will answer the questions to me in just a moment.

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