Currents Mafia [END]

[Dyslexicon]

I'm going to start by saying that I hate games that start with me having to defend myself. It never ends well. Either I get lynched, or I spend the entire game trying to tell people that they are wrong, and everything I say just fits into their misconception of me being bad, and whether I succeed or not, I don't have much fun. Therefore, I'm going to do my best to defend myself, but I'm not going to go nuts when people decide to attack and tell me I'm No Uing, and silly stuff like that. This is how I play.
So:

A. MP, in general, this is day 1. Yes, more has happened than usual first days here, but still, it's not like I have evidence of someone actually being bad. I talk about what I read and pops to mind as I read it, and if someone pressures me for a read, I'll state what I see. What I saw (and forgive me for not fully reading your long strategy post), was you suggesting, or at least I assumed you were, that we play the cop card smartly, and a few fake claim. Thus, the baddies can't catch the real cop. Am I wrong about that?

Then, you give about 3-4 names in green, and the rest in grey. So far, so good. I can see you doing it both as a civ and as a baddie. Then, when someone else gives a coloured list, you don't ask about their suspects, but rather why that person trusts Marmot. How can you not see why this looks suspicious? It felt to me like someone trying to fish for reasons for trusting people. And the fact that you were first to give your list (no matter that it wasn't a coloured one, got me even more worried. It's like you were drawing out people to make such a list so you can use it.

Given all that, the fact that you joined the vote on me made me doubt your civviness.
I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of things, and if you are a civvie, then yes, we should clear things fast, but please explain to me how your actions are from a civvie point of view.


Damn, I need to go. Plenty more to say. I hope to be back later before you all lynch me.

I like this post. Don't know about the supposed cop hunting from MP, seems a bit random to do. The idea MP presented was that everyone says who their supposed N0 town peek was, so the real cop and everyone else will have that information in thread. This way, if the cop dies at any point, we will have the info (s)he gave in thread. Everyone has to do it for it to work. The down side is that it's easier for scum to hunt down the cop. Up side is we have the info should the cop die. It's a pretty standard strategy. Seems like we're not doing it though.

I hope you'll be back to give what reads you have on other people than MP.

---

Question/request - Would really appreciate if people explained their reads more. I get that rainbow lists is a thing here and they are pretty and I like them, but I would really like for people to articulate why they feel a certain way if they can, and gut reads are legit.

[Dyslexicon]

Vote Marmot

[Dyslexicon]

Long Con

Long Con

Luke, explain this?

[Dyslexicon]

Long Con

Long Con

Luke, explain this?

From your rainbow list.

[Dyslexicon]

Vote Luke

Could go Marmot

[Dyslexicon]

Theory wise Nut is on the town side of things, which could make sense.

[Dyslexicon]

And I really have to go, but hopefully will be back before deadline.

[Epignosis]

Question to regular Cindy Kates - is it normal for scum to have day chat or only night chat? Or does it depend?

It is customary for the mafia to talk whenever they want. Why do you ask?

Thanks for the response, Epi. That is more than I was looking for, but it's a hell of a response and an awesome template for folks re: meta analysis. Well done.

Is MP always this polite and supportinve?

I don't know what supportinve is.

I am continually amazed that the #1 FEB on the site leads more lynches than anybody else.

What's a FEB?
Also, I would really like your most recent town game and your most recent scum game, please. Asking for a friend.

I am the evilest. I am Skeletor.

When I was good, I was killed first and the thread died with me.

When I was bad, I took down the entire civilian base single-handedly with sound.

[speedchuck]

Speed feels a bit different.

Speed - I always have the mental picture of him sitting behind his computer smirking and it's not comforting. I'll just note that he feels different than last game. Question: Which alignment do you most enjoy?

So, I don't feel like third party speedchuck? Good, cool.

@everyone Do I need to change my avatar or something? I'm not cool with coming off as constantly smug.

I most enjoy anti-town alignments.

[Tangrowth]

Hey speedchuck, let's talk. You seemed to indicate that you were misremembering juliets and nutella to some extent re: Phenon meta, though it's not clear to me how that affected your read of nutella, if at all. Can you speak to that?

It worsened my read of nutella, but I'm currently getting the same non-negative vibes that you see from her. Waiting for it to develop.

MP, can I have some examples of past games from you? At least one town and at least one scum, preferably on this site. No replacements. Meta-read stuff. I'll tell you why once I get the examples. Thanks.

Sure. My performances have been a bit hit or miss and I've been off/on hiatus for a little while now, but here are relatively good recent examples:

Town: Mad Max
Mafia: Transistor and Mafia Championship Scrimmage

However, I eventually replaced out of Transistor (despite having nearly 200 posts), so that's why I gave two for that alignment.

Let me know if you need anything else.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

And for my next trick, I'll do a Sockface impersonation.






Dyslexicon
Epignosis
FZ.
DrWilgy
Elohcin
insertnamehere
JaggedJimmyJay
Long Con
Luke11646
MovingPictures07
speedchuck
nutella

Talk to me about that FZ. read if you don't mind.

Apparently you wanted a list of civilians, right? I agree with the reasoning for that, to let the cop get his reads out there with some cover.

Furthermore, I agree with what FZ had to say about your question. Maybe she was pretty aggressive in her pursuit, but I don't think such worry is misguided.

Well, it didn't even have to be a list of civilians from everyone, I just was trying to plan whether folks wanted to specifically discuss peeks or not; seeing as though there's no consensus, then yeah, I want to know what everyone's reads are, especially town reads.

Townies lose games when they withhold information from each other, especially in this kind of setup.

[Tangrowth]

Thanks, Floyd! Appreciated.

speedchuck, thanks for the reply.

FZ., let me address your post next.

I will say that nutella is giving off a genuine tone to me with her most recent posts, though I'm not sure I could put my finger on why exactly. I don't see a town spark, but at the same time I don't see a baddie panic either. So I'm given just a bit of pause there.

I was expecting a civilian nutella to lose her shit on me. She remained calm and stuck her tongue out at me.

Really?

See, I might expect that exact set of reactions from someone else, but I expect the reverse from Nutella. Some players get more upset when caught as bad.

It's hard to put much stock into it either way I think.

[Tangrowth]

Speed feels a bit different.

How so?

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for the response, Epi. That is more than I was looking for, but it's a hell of a response and an awesome template for folks re: meta analysis. Well done.

Is MP always this polite and supportinve?

Didn't you ask this in another game we played together?

[speedchuck]

Thanks for the response, Epi. That is more than I was looking for, but it's a hell of a response and an awesome template for folks re: meta analysis. Well done.

Is MP always this polite and supportinve?

Didn't you ask this in another game we played together?

To be fair, it's giving me the heebie-jeebies as well.

That's why I asked for the meta-reading material. And after a few minutes of looking, I can safely say that I read you as more town now, but also have a higher level of paranoia on that read. If that makes sense.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

I'm going to start by saying that I hate games that start with me having to defend myself. It never ends well. Either I get lynched, or I spend the entire game trying to tell people that they are wrong, and everything I say just fits into their misconception of me being bad, and whether I succeed or not, I don't have much fun. Therefore, I'm going to do my best to defend myself, but I'm not going to go nuts when people decide to attack and tell me I'm No Uing, and silly stuff like that. This is how I play.
So:

A. MP, in general, this is day 1. Yes, more has happened than usual first days here, but still, it's not like I have evidence of someone actually being bad. I talk about what I read and pops to mind as I read it, and if someone pressures me for a read, I'll state what I see. What I saw (and forgive me for not fully reading your long strategy post), was you suggesting, or at least I assumed you were, that we play the cop card smartly, and a few fake claim. Thus, the baddies can't catch the real cop. Am I wrong about that?

Then, you give about 3-4 names in green, and the rest in grey. So far, so good. I can see you doing it both as a civ and as a baddie. Then, when someone else gives a coloured list, you don't ask about their suspects, but rather why that person trusts Marmot. How can you not see why this looks suspicious? It felt to me like someone trying to fish for reasons for trusting people. And the fact that you were first to give your list (no matter that it wasn't a coloured one, got me even more worried. It's like you were drawing out people to make such a list so you can use it.

Given all that, the fact that you joined the vote on me made me doubt your civviness.
I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of things, and if you are a civvie, then yes, we should clear things fast, but please explain to me how your actions are from a civvie point of view.


Damn, I need to go. Plenty more to say. I hope to be back later before you all lynch me.

Thank you so much, FZ.; I understand much better now.

I really didn't fathom how my post inquiring about Marmot could be seen as suspicious because I didn't even think of that interpretation.

I can now comprehend how you reached that perspective, but it wasn't what I was accomplishing with that post. I specifically asked about Marmot because the rest of the reads seemed immediately agreeable or reasonable to me, and I have trouble reading Marmot especially early in games.

On reflection, I might not have made that same post if I realized the perspective that you spouted here.

I'm not one to exercise caution when discussing information in the thread, for better or worse, not because I'm careless but in this case because I just didn't think of it that way.

I still don't think it'll matter much though if everyone posts their damn reads, so that we don't have a situation like this.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Question - is there a reason everyone is reading Epi as town? Meta reasons and info is welcome.

K, so actual thoughtsreadsfeels.

Nutella - I also got iffy vibes from her first post, unsure it's for the exact same reasons as Epi listed. It read more like saying stuff to say stuff and not a comprehensive train of thought. Also found it suspicious how she tagged my vote on MP as "apparent gut feel" when I feel it should be pretty clear it was a very loose vote, pressure/rawr/whatever and she recognises that and at the same time considers to act on it, I think that's what bugs me the most. In Phenon I pretty much followed her stream of consciousness kind of thing seamlessly, not the same here. That said I do like her tone in the recent posts. Slight scum? Could see nut teamed with MP.

MP - I already kind of hate my bias of MP, but his posts reads to me like directing, like deciding what he wants to be convinced of instead of being convinced (don't know how to express it). The activety, strategy talk and questioning is all good, but I know he could do it as scum too. I don't really have a reason to scum read him, so I guess just a null read.

FZ - I could see FZ as scum, mostly didn't like the first post as it also looked like saying stuff to say stuff and it was very early in the game (same feeling as with Nut). Other posts reads defensive with the "I'm watching you" and "maybe I'll vote you" kind of thing. Lack of actual scum hunting? Slight scum lean.

Speed - I always have the mental picture of him sitting behind his computer smirking and it's not comforting. I'll just note that he feels different than last game. Question: Which alignment do you most enjoy?

Marmot - I have suspicions on Marmot for raisins. Rawr.

Luke - Want to hear more from Luke and for him to explain his suspicions. Did not like the post where he votes Nut and says he's just following. Not much to go on otherwise. Sligh scum lean but not much to go on.

LC - Feels different from last game. More shooting in straight lines and not so much dancing around, if that makes sense (probably not). Was leaning town pretty early on, and that hasn't changed.

Epi - If I were to follow others reads, would lean town. Don't really have any feels, as I suspect he's the type of player that would be straight forward and do "logically correct things" regardless of alignment. Null I guess.

JJJ - Is basically willfully trolling. How is that going for you? Would really like you to share your thoughts on the Nut case, and also your own thoughts on Speed. Seems to be doing his own thing. Slight town read for no real reason.

Wilgy - I get that Wilgy's meta is to be a bit random. The one post that stuck out to me was the movement to Nut being a save and then still voting her, which doesn't compute in my head. Please Elaborate? Nullll

Eloh and INH are very null because of lurkness, actually forgot INH was playing. o.o Post moar!

Dizzy, first off, I am reading Epi as town still, but he is an incredibly capable mafia (and well aware of that fact and proud of it, as you can see).

He's hunting with fervor and better than anyone else right now. I always have my concerns, but I haven't seen anything alarming from him, and I'll be poking him throughout the game to be sure. I think others should as well.

Secondly, thanks for your reads.

I would contend that Luke is playing fast and loose for a newbie; that makes him look good in my eyes because I think a mafia newbie would either be intimidated into overexplaining or lurking, not making himself so overly underexplained or 'convenient' (to steal nutella's word for his vote). Tentatively, of course, and despite him not engaging more. Curious how you reached slight scum there.

[Tangrowth]

Also, I'm moving off of FZ. now. Her post at least made me throw her back up into the grey area, and I think it's best for us to explore as many options as possible, especially on Day 1.

INH, get in here and say some things.

[Tangrowth]

Question/request - Would really appreciate if people explained their reads more. I get that rainbow lists is a thing here and they are pretty and I like them, but I would really like for people to articulate why they feel a certain way if they can, and gut reads are legit.

Agreed.

That said, we've had enough rainbows fly out of here so far that I think it's also prudent for others to provide their reads similarly or at least make it clear what reads they do have before the lynch/D1 EoD time.

[Tangrowth]

Vote Luke

Could go Marmot

How does Luke's contradictory/double placement of LC make him bad?

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for the response, Epi. That is more than I was looking for, but it's a hell of a response and an awesome template for folks re: meta analysis. Well done.

Is MP always this polite and supportinve?

Didn't you ask this in another game we played together?

To be fair, it's giving me the heebie-jeebies as well.

That's why I asked for the meta-reading material. And after a few minutes of looking, I can safely say that I read you as more town now, but also have a higher level of paranoia on that read. If that makes sense.

Yep, that's pretty much par for the course with how people feel about MP firing on all cylinders. I can dig it. Give me all of the town reads and paranoia.

[Marmot]

Question to regular Cindy Kates - is it normal for scum to have day chat or only night chat? Or does it depend?

It is normal for them to have a chat at all times. It's even normal for dead scum to stay in the chat throughout the game.

Dyslexicon votes for FZ.

FZ responds in under 5 minutes.

I don't get it, explain?

I don't get it either tbh. But, the timing of your vote and her response jumped out to me.

Here's your first mention of her in the game, followed immediately by a vote two minutes later.

Spoiler: show

@FZ - Did you play that game on PerC a while back, where Timeless was scum and I wanted to lynch him every day but he wasn't lynched before I was dead and it was sad?

@Nut - Do you have any more or less specific things to your reads or would you say they are more feels based?

Vote FZ

And FZ, who hadn't posted in ~18 hours, just happened to be online and catch that vote in linki.

Spoiler: show

I'm LOL at JJJ trying to Vompatti, but it's going to be a real shame if he actually carries on for too long. If he's good this game, civvie JJJ is a lot more useful than civve Vompatti.

Eloh, Do you have baddie tells for Epi, or is your policy regarding his game similar to his own regarding your game?

I like this day 0 so far. Usually we do nothing until the next day starts.

While I echo your lament for the town if Jay is indeed town, I do think however that he should play however he wants to. In the end, I'm sure he'll be able to give us some assistance in figuring out his alignment.

Can you clarify re: the bolded/underlined portion of your post?

Epi doesn't like to talk about Eloh's alignment tells. I was wondering if Eloh felt the same, and what she thought about his behaviour so far.

Hi. I was sure a lot more people would check in by now, and I'd miss a lot.

Epi and LC have started the game strongly quite early. This is unlike the last heist game where they seemed relatively trusting of each other (and were both civvies). It feels genuine at the moment, especially since Epi just went back on his suspicion. We'll see. And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things, but while the jokey atmosphere is not uncommon for day 0, I always feel like it's an easy way for baddies to blend in on day 0 and appear like they have no care in the world. So I'll be keeping an eye here.

Carry on.

This post of FZ's pinged me.

I read it as "This is unlike the last heist game where they were both civvies. I'll call it genuine but make it clear that will change. Their jokes are an indicator they are bad."

Also feels like "They're bad, they're good, they're bad."

It looks like a waffley kind of baddie thing. I vote FZ.

Well it's true. Your interaction did seem very different from last game and coming from my first game after a long break, it was something that stood out. I didn't know what to make of it yet, but I like to say what's on my mind when I read things. And like I said, I'll judge things when I see more.


@linki: Too many cats and I don't even know how to react to that vote.

But I read her later reactions, and decide that the thing that jumped out at me doesn't make sense for you two to be teammates. If FZ was your teammate, I doubt she'd write your vote off like this.

[Marmot]

Doin' my best Dizzy impersonation.

i just want relax and feel inspired k

[Marmot]

Marmot - I have suspicions on Marmot for raisins. Rawr.

NO U fam

[Marmot]

Vote Elohcin

Come play with us!

[Marmot]

Back to FZ, that one post directed at Dizzy way back when pings me a bit, but I like her reactions to Sockface. Strikingly sincere, and I find them to be well-placed.

[Marmot]

6 posts in a row?

Spoiler: show

[Marmot]

I could also see myself voting for insertnamehere for being 3 days absent now.

I probably won't vote for Luke today. His posts don't tell us much about his suspicions, but he's at least here.




I would also vote Dizzy for raisins.

[Epignosis]

6 posts in a row?

Spoiler: show

Damn your love, damn your lies.

[Tangrowth]

I'll be back before EoD, but this is my last post for a little while.

CAUTION: This first part of my post details me talking about myself, my meta, and my actions so far this game, in typical verbose Mp fashion. This is constructed partly in response to FZ.'s concern, but also now partly in response to speedchuck/Dizzy as well. If you don't care about this and want my updated reads, skip to the second part of this post. Otherwise, read this stuff if you care. Thanks.

I'm town because I'm working to solve the game to the best of my ability while I have the time to do so. I think my posts reflect an honest attempt to further town's best interests as much as possible, while I'm sure they never will be perfect, insightful, etc.; the intent is there. I've been accused of the "buddying" thing before across alignments; it's just who I am. I like playing this game. But especially as a member of the town, more and more these days I'm a believer in creating a supporting environment and working together with fellow townies as a team. Obviously, this requires constant reassessment of those within the "POE" so to speak, but that's prudent regardless. Further, I think my posts have displayed a "town spark" sense of urgency. I realize I can replicate these things as a member of the mafia, but replications are never perfect. I intend on continuing this effort as much as I can, though I do have time limitations.

Lastly, regarding any concerns that I'm hunting for town reads as much as or more than I am mafia reads, I've come to realize over the past couple of years especially and notably in the very early stages of a game, it is much easier and more natural for me to develop town reads and use a POE approach rather than actively hunt for scum. In past games I would place an inordinate amount of pressure on myself, as town, to develop at least one mafia read by a certain point in the game, and most of the time I found those reads and cases would fall apart quickly under slight scrutiny from others, and often be inaccurate and cause town more grief than anything. In contrast, I've found that in early parts of mafia games I naturally develop town reads, no matter how slight, pretty easily. Therefore, I've decided that I should continually update reads, even if they're all just town reads, and that I will come across a mafia read whenever I organically find something troubling or suspicious. I've found that not only does this approach allow me to feel more comfortable in my shoes, so to speak, but it's led to better results overall for the town. Consequently, I am trying to play to my strengths as a player.

I'm not even going to re-read or spellcheck or grammarcheck any of this. That's all just spewed from my brain to my hands to my keyboard. Hope that addresses any concerns that any of you all have. If not, let me know, and I can try to address them, but it probably won't be until after EoD. I'd much rather focus efforts for the rest of Day 1 on hunting because I think that's more important.

==================================================================================================

Updated reads:

Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Long Con
Luke11646
Marmot
nutella

DrWilgy
Elohcin
FZ.
JaggedJimmyJay
insertnamehere
speedchuck

Dizzy and Epi continue to hunt and continue to make me feel good about them. I'll be keeping my eye on them and I will poke them, but for now I don't see any reason to vote for them today. They're the most evident town contributors in this game at the moment.

Long Con still feels like a townie to me based on a read I established earlier, but I want to see more from him ASAP.

Luke, pretty much the same as LC. Continues to feel like a townie, but I need to get inside his head more ASAP.

I've moved Marmot up based on his recent posts as well as a general feeling I get from his overall post history that he is more so random contributory townie Marmot rather than random chaos baddie Marmot.

I'm willing to let my feelings regarding nutella's honesty and recent attempts to find her footing and get into game solving push her just ever so slightly above the line into town-land, despite feeling as though Epi's meta casing was pretty decent, especially as such a case can be when it's built on early Day 1 and using meta as its backbone.

FZ. and speedchuck are most likely to ascend out of my grey (AKA: I will vote for one of these folks today) list, but for right now I'm still keeping them barely in there. I have had concerns for the former (and actually would have put her as a very slight red / pink color when I left the thread last night, so I've already bumped her up to grey based on her alleviating those concerns to a degree), and am still not really sure what to make of the latter for some reason. Sorry, speedchuck. Keep working to show us that town spark though, if you're town that is.

I'll try to reassess all of these, including my green (AKA: I will NOT vote for one of these folks today) as much as possible and elaborate upon these more upon my return; however, unfortunately I really ought to get back to work, as I've spent way too much time here already. BBL.

[Marmot]

6 posts in a row?

Spoiler: show

Damn your love, damn your lies.

You'll never break the chain!

I've moved Marmot up based on his recent posts as well as a general feeling I get from his overall post history that he is more so random contributory townie Marmot rather than random chaos baddie Marmot.

Well damn, they're onto me. This doesn't bode well for my baddie game.

[Long Con]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

[speedchuck]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

[Marmot]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

They say it's not your behaviour that makes you mafia, but it's the rolecard you receive.


So.


Why did you receive a mafia rolecard?

[speedchuck]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

They say it's not your behaviour that makes you mafia, but it's the rolecard you receive.


So.


Why did you receive a mafia rolecard?

Luck of the draw, I guess.

#realslip

[JaggedJimmyJay]

*removes Vompatti mask and scans the flabbergasted audience with delight*

DrWilgy

His involvement to this point has been limited in quantity and depth. He’s poked a few people with a stick per the Wilgy M.O., though any investment in those pokes has not shown itself to this point (I don't see follow-ups or developments stemming from those initial pokes). Wilgy generally plays outside the box and I applaud him for that; I see one post suitable to the character I’d associate with his town play which also inspires a question:

Just considering the flow of votes, this is more likely a save than a bus.

Oh well.

Could you expand on what gave you this impression and what the tally circumstances were at the time?

Dyslexicon

Their content so far looks to be following the same general pattern from Phenon, wherein in their earliest play they were inclined to goof around (sometimes by design i.e. the fake slip) and their content became progressively more relevant as Day 1 moved forward. That’s a positive. In their reads list there’s some vague that I’d like to see expanded on, particularly the reads on Marmot and speedchuck. They are as far as I can tell “raisins” for the former and “he seems different” for the latter, which isn’t terribly inspiring. The speedchuck read especially demands expansion because meta-based suspicion directed upon a player who has only ever been an LMS independent on this site is hard to understand.

Elohcin

Her content to this point has mostly been in response to Epi or a discussion of Epi. I don’t draw much of anything from their early banter regarding grammar or her forgiveness of those transgressions. I have little to say about this post history.

Epignosis

I liked Epi a lot on Day 0. He put reads into the thread and did not seem concerned with how effectively he could support them; he treated it like I often treat the earliest stages of play. While I’ve been doing jack shit all game I think it’s a nice look for Epi to step up early as a facilitator of content and reads generation in my stead. The mafia team would benefit from a stagnant thread, and when I am lazy a stagnant thread is more likely. Epi took it upon himself first to change that. I haven’t taken issue with his more recent content, and his meta analysis of nutella recalls closely what he did to MacDougall on Day 1 of the GOC.

[Marmot]

I see ValidVompyVay is having an identity crisis. Someone help that poor man.

[Dyslexicon]

It is customary for the mafia to talk whenever they want. Why do you ask?

Cause of something Marmot said. But if day talk is custom it doesn't matter.

I don't know what supportinve is.

If you ad an i, it's an anagram for punitive sport.

Thanks for the gameses, I might even read/listen to them Except the town game seems to be gone?

Also fucking love that you had a vocaroo game here! I've been considering to run one at PerC.

[Dyslexicon]

So, I don't feel like third party speedchuck? Good, cool.

@everyone Do I need to change my avatar or something? I'm not cool with coming off as constantly smug.

I most enjoy anti-town alignments.

Lol, I don't really mean smug. Just smart as a whatever noun was used in Phenon. That feeling. But your vibe is different, and yes I'm aware that it doesn't say much since you were 3p last game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[JaggedJimmyJay]

F.Z.

Her first post is rather difficult to follow. It has already been discussed some; I have a couple different questions based upon the highlighted content:

Spoiler: show

Hi. I was sure a lot more people would check in by now, and I'd miss a lot.

Epi and LC have started the game strongly quite early. This is unlike the last heist game where they seemed relatively trusting of each other (and were both civvies). It feels genuine at the moment, especially since Epi just went back on his suspicion. We'll see. And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things, but while the jokey atmosphere is not uncommon for day 0, I always feel like it's an easy way for baddies to blend in on day 0 and appear like they have no care in the world. So I'll be keeping an eye here.

Carry on.

~ Can you expand on what differences you perceive in the LC/Epi interaction early in this game versus the previous heist (Blue vs. Red?) and what that difference means to you? It is unclear.

~ What was the purpose or inspiration for mentioning INH in this post?

Spoiler: show

This feels like you're trying to draw out the cop. And it feels even worse when it was your idea in the first place to give a list of civvie reads.


I think I might vote for you MP.

This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.

Spoiler: show

To be fair, I think that Nutella and I are getting accused for similar things. If it's between me and her, I'll vote Nutella to save myself, but I can't say I really see what Epi is seeing. People keep thinking that only baddies say something but contradict themselves in the same post to leave every option open later on. That's bullshit. As a baddie, I've tried to look determined plenty of times. Going after someone relentlessly, and I'm often a lot more hesitant as a civvie because the pressure of making a mistake is making me doubt myself.

Regarding the highlighted portion, it'd be ideal if you could expand, FZ, on the specifics of Epi's suspicion of nutella that you don't agree with. You've sort of paired yourself with her by stating that the cases are similar and that she'd only be your vote if self-preservation demands it. Tell me more about the similarities you observe.

That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

~~~

Long Con

I appreciate his willingness to insert himself in a diverse array of dialogues so far. He seems to have offered his two cents in every conversation of note and his language is candid and loose. I don't get the impression he is concerned with appearances. When LC is bad I think he tends to be a manipulator (more than any anonymous baddie must be a manipulator) in that he takes strategic angles and undercuts arguments with ad hominem or the like. I don't see evidence of that stuff in his current post history. I do have one beef:

Spoiler: show

Epi I am not bad. I'm not sure how I can convince you at this point but you are barking up the wrong tree.

Every time I feel like saying someone is "barking up the wrong tree" I stop myself... because at some point, it was seen as, well, something baddies say. I may have gotten caught by it once... maybe just scared for my life. But I always remembered.

Ellipsis abuse is the devil.

Luke11646

"I'm just going off of what other people say"

That is an amusing and brazen display. I like it. I know nothing about Luke as a player; it appears his experience in Mafia is limited and for a new bad guy I think that sort of thing is more difficult to say.

Marmot

Spoiler: show

Dyslexicon votes for FZ.

FZ responds in under 5 minutes.


That said, I agree with the feelz that Meester Long Con describes in that one post where he talked about FZ and voted her, so

This is the type of thing that Marmot often looks for and other players don't. It's a nice look from a meta basis, because it enables Marmot to play in his own little world true to form while also providing content of relevance. I don't know whether this is a reliable meta tell for the inscrutable Marmot, but I am inspired to give it a try: a civilian Marmot finds unique ways to insert relevance into his paint spatter posting, while a mafia Marmot merely spatters.

[speedchuck]

So, I don't feel like third party speedchuck? Good, cool.

@everyone Do I need to change my avatar or something? I'm not cool with coming off as constantly smug.

I most enjoy anti-town alignments.

Lol, I don't really mean smug. Just smart as a whatever noun was used in Phenon. That feeling. But your vibe is different, and yes I'm aware that it doesn't say much since you were 3p last game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Whip, I believe was the term.

And okay, that's alright. :P I just don't want to come off as a smuggie.

[speedchuck]

Currently have my vote on Eloh, btw. We've got... almost 5 hours left?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I see ValidVompyVay is having an identity crisis. Someone help that poor man.

I'm thinking of wearing a Marmot mask next.

[Dyslexicon]

Didn't you ask this in another game we played together?

I did, didn't I? o.o
I really don't want to use your politeness and well spokenness (is that even a word?) against you, but it somehow freaks me out a bit. And you crushed my heart the first time I played here and how can I ever recover from that? But really, I think I'll have to eventually start to read you like I read JJJ last game, just decide upon something.

Dizzy, first off, I am reading Epi as town still, but he is an incredibly capable mafia (and well aware of that fact and proud of it, as you can see).

He's hunting with fervor and better than anyone else right now. I always have my concerns, but I haven't seen anything alarming from him, and I'll be poking him throughout the game to be sure. I think others should as well.

Secondly, thanks for your reads.

I would contend that Luke is playing fast and loose for a newbie; that makes him look good in my eyes because I think a mafia newbie would either be intimidated into overexplaining or lurking, not making himself so overly underexplained or 'convenient' (to steal nutella's word for his vote). Tentatively, of course, and despite him not engaging more. Curious how you reached slight scum there.

Thanks for the infos on Epi. I don't experience Luke fast an loose, actually he disappeared when I asked him about his read on me. Could be coincident, could be not. The exact read could be many things, I don't know if I really have many exact reads yet overall.

Vote Luke

Could go Marmot

How does Luke's contradictory/double placement of LC make him bad?

I mostly want to here him talk about it first.

[speedchuck]

Gut feels right now. Order does not matter.

DO NOT LYNCH:
Dyslexicon
Marmot
Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay
Long Con
speedchuck
nutella

MAYBE SOMETHING PARANOIA:
MovingPictures07

MAYBE LYNCH:
Luke11646
insertnamehere
DrWilgy
Elohcin
FZ

[Dyslexicon]

@MP - Also, regarding your self meta thing. This is all good and well and I follow you on all points. It basically boils down to do I believe you or do I not? I don't want to use my experience or perception of you against you in an unfair way, I just have the thoughts and feels that I do. And I'm not really scum reading you, actually thinking it's (well percentage wise (?)) likely that you are town. In any case, keep on keeping on. One question though - How did Speed go from being a town read to one of your two vote considerations of the day? I didn't follow the progression when I looked over your posts. Can you talk about that?

[Dyslexicon]

I see ValidVompyVay is having an identity crisis. Someone help that poor man.

I'm thinking of wearing a Marmot mask next.

Do me! I somehow feel like I'm obstucting the game when I'm the only one gifing. o.o

[Dyslexicon]

It is normal for them to have a chat at all times. It's even normal for dead scum to stay in the chat throughout the game.

Oh wow, I've never seen that practice before. Good to know actually.

I don't get it either tbh. But, the timing of your vote and her response jumped out to me.

Here's your first mention of her in the game, followed immediately by a vote two minutes later.

And FZ, who hadn't posted in ~18 hours, just happened to be online and catch that vote in linki.

But I read her later reactions, and decide that the thing that jumped out at me doesn't make sense for you two to be teammates. If FZ was your teammate, I doubt she'd write your vote off like this.

K, well it was this interaction/timing observation that was of concern for me, but it's moot to me now anyway.

[Dyslexicon]

@JJJ - The Marmot read was kind of a tinfoil thought that has been disproved. Marmot is a null read, maybe slight town if I was to go crazy. The Speed feeling different to me is nothing more than just that. He feels not as careful and more playfool/bouncy (?). Coupled with him enjoying to play anti-town it does give me a hmmmm.

Overall I wish I had better meta on people. Getting there in 2018. You will never be rid of me and my cats.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MovingPictures07

Similarly to Epi, I think MP has stepped up to fill the vacuum of content left behind by my silliness. This is more typical of his play regardless of alignment, but I haven't had a problem with his content to this point. I think he looks like he is making a genuine effort to set the game on a proper initial course. I particularly appreciate his effort to generate early dialogue on the matter of cop cover, as it recalls his experiences in Arrested Development Mafia when he was able to successfully draw a night kill while covering for the cop (which alongside the cop's peeks proved to be a game-winning move). It makes a lot of sense for MP to care about this more than other players. I never weighed on the matter myself; I'll do so now: I think cover is important and should be engaged. It doesn't necessarily have to be blatant "my peek is _____", but at least one assertive, clear read can go a long way to confusing the mafia in their cop hunt. I will reassert MP's point that in this particular setup, the cop is of paramount importance. His or her lifespan can often be the factor which decides who wins the game. MP's my top civilian read.

MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

insertnamehere

This is perhaps the least engaged I have seen INH in a Mafia game to date. He's made zero posts on Day 1 so far. On Day 0 he voiced suspicion of Epignosis for taking a grammar-relevant joke seriously which strikes me as dubious. I can't think of an example of a time where I have seen someone say something to Epi related to language that hasn't resulted in a response from him, being the English teacher he is with the reputation for language monitoring that he has.

It should be stated that INH made that claim of suspicion in direct response to receiving the same claim from Epi himself, so it may have been yet another joke. Either way INH's posts leave much to be desired.

nutella

This is a tough read, because I think there are reasons for suspicion that I need to qualify as either being "valid" or "nutella is a victim of her own success". When I say the latter, I don't mean that she made awesome reads in Phenon (which wasn't her only strong civilian showing lately), but rather in that game she was just blindingly civilian from her first few posts. Her thought process was so transparent and easy to follow that it was no struggle at all to see the True Light Within. I can't say that she fits that description in this game. It's a lofty standard to hold somebody to, and I'd know given my own long list of experiences drawing immediate town reads for similar reasons.

The first post is microcosmic of the post history and I'll focus my attention there:

Spoiler: show

As usual I'm pretty lost as to where to start and I feel like anyone could be fooling me at this point. I suppose I'm leaning toward civ-reading MP and also agreeing with his civ read of Epi and LC, but those could all be subject to change. I also think Dys and JJJ look good so far. Part of me is tempted to follow Dys's apparent gut suspicion of MP, but as of now I think it's risky because if he is civ he's a valuable one as seen by his early and detailed contributions about strategy. Then again, said strategy post could be seen as sneaky-by-way-of-overt fishing for cop/info claims, but that's kind of a leap. Again I'm leaning civ for him but my Dys read is stronger.

Orange: this is similar to a point made by Epi and it reminds me of Sloonei kicking my butt on Day 0/1 of GY!BE for the same reason -- I don't fault anyone for uncertainty so early in a game, but this is a ton of it. The read on MP specifically is all over the place and qualified by a bunch of words that detract from the conclusion (MP is a civilian read). That's not ideal at face value.

Green: nutella, please describe what inspired you to read me this way at this point.

Red: I am never a fan of this phrase wherever it appears. It strikes me as a source of hesitation borne as much out of fear of the consequences to the self (of lynching a contributing civilian) as out of fear of the consequences to the faction. I would not look great if I help make this happen. I also think this statement represents the extremity of nutella's MP read in this post. She trusts him enough to support his civilian reads of LC and Epi and suspects him enough to be concerned with the ramifications of lynching him (for reasons unclear apart from Dizzy's "apparent gut read"). This all demands expansion.

nutella, if you've already addressed any of this please just direct me to the relevant posts.

I like this post more, particularly nutella's more candid dialogue about FZ's treatment of Wilgy. Really overall it's that first post which is troubling; the rest not as much.

speedchuck

I'll clarify our earlier German exchange: I asserted his treatment of MP's prodding wasn't great because he seemed to be putting on a face instead of just addressing it -- something that struck me as unsuitable treatment of a town read (as speedchuck read MP). MP was trying to qualify his read on speedchuck and I don't believe speedchuck gave him a great opportunity to do that. I feel similarly about his reception of suspicion I stated myself prior to the German exchange. It looked to me like a player trying to appear comfortable and in so doing appearing uncomfortable. He did the same thing more recently in response to Epi's vote. His handling of pressure in this game has not been my favorite thing.

I do appreciate his consistent willingness to pour reads into the thread though, via rainbow or POE. The effort is decent, the tone isn't. One question for speedchuck: what inspires the current Elohcin vote?

Note: I don't think you seem smug, so don't worry about that.