Currents Mafia [END]

[Dyslexicon]

Would also really really like some Eloh and INH action right now.

[Marmot]

I see ValidVompyVay is having an identity crisis. Someone help that poor man.

I'm thinking of wearing a Marmot mask next.

Do me! I somehow feel like I'm obstucting the game when I'm the only one gifing. o.o

I don't think I can keep up, but I can try.

[Dyslexicon]

@Speed - I didn't mean to say you seemed smug at all, sorry if that came out wrong. It was really more of a compliment of I don't know quite where I have you alignment wise (and it was the same last game), which is really a good thing in mafia.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't think I can keep up, but I can try.

Yay! Directly to the don't lynch-list with you.

[Dyslexicon]

I guess I'd say

Don't lynch:
LC
Nut
JJJ
Marmot

And if in a good mood:
MP
Epi
Speed

Could lynch:
Luke
FZ
Eloh
INH
Wilgy

Or something like that.

[Dyslexicon]

MAYBE LYNCH:
Luke11646
insertnamehere
DrWilgy
Elohcin
FZ

Could lynch:
Luke
FZ
Eloh
INH
Wilgy

Or something like that.

Lol, does this mean I'm smart as a whip too?

[Dyslexicon]

MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Wait, does MP town read Speed or not? o.o

[speedchuck]

@Speed - I didn't mean to say you seemed smug at all, sorry if that came out wrong. It was really more of a compliment of I don't know quite where I have you alignment wise (and it was the same last game), which is really a good thing in mafia.

Oh, don't worry about it. :P I'm not taking it as an insult.

And yes, smart as a whip but with twice as much recoil.


@JJJ You asked about my read on Eloh. As I posted much earlier in the game, Eloh made a couple of posts that seemed incredibly un-genuine. Kinda like your current read on me, but minus the effort and the being-here.
Not as scummy as some reasons to suspect others, but I also have zero reason to think Eloh is town.

As for MP's question that you didn't like my snarky response to: I honestly have no idea what an answer to that question would be. "You remind me of something I do as both alignments, but feel more pressure to do as scum. What do you say about that?" - to paraphrase. What do I say about that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Wait, does MP town read Speed or not? o.o

It was asserted here, though the feeling seems to have waned since.

[Dyslexicon]

I actually don't know quite where to place Nut.

[Dyslexicon]

MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Wait, does MP town read Speed or not? o.o

It was asserted here, though the feeling seems to have waned since.

Well yeah, I read it like his recent posts was contradicting this, which I asked him about. But ok.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As for MP's question that you didn't like my snarky response to: I honestly have no idea what an answer to that question would be. "You remind me of something I do as both alignments, but feel more pressure to do as scum. What do you say about that?" - to paraphrase. What do I say about that?

Instead of focusing on the notion that MP is working from a perspective of his own meta as he perceives it, you could focus on the assertion itself -- that you were excusing your lack of activity frequently enough to be suspicious. That is an accusation independent of meta. If you feel it shouldn't speak to your alignment, you could say why.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JJJ - The Marmot read was kind of a tinfoil thought that has been disproved. Marmot is a null read, maybe slight town if I was to go crazy. The Speed feeling different to me is nothing more than just that. He feels not as careful and more playfool/bouncy (?). Coupled with him enjoying to play anti-town it does give me a hmmmm.

Please expand on the tinfoil concern you previously had about Marmot.

[Marmot]

I've got a midterm this afternoon, so I likely won't be around at all the rest of the day.



Putting my vote on insertnamehere, since I remember more from Elohcin than him.

[Marmot]

Also, we've had pretty good success lately in lynching players Day 1 who not only post little, but have little content infused in those posts.

[Marmot]

I've been terrible at finishing my thoughts this game.

insertnamehere falls into this category right now, hence my vote for him.

[DrWilgy]

Just considering the flow of votes, this is more likely a save than a bus.

Oh well.

Expanding on this, at the time of this posts it was 3 vs 4 with Hazelnut in the lead.

The order of votes was that the 3 on FZ came before the 4 on Hazelnut. I don't think it's likely there was a bussing on Hazelnut meaning a busser would have to tie thier teammate up if they are into that, then put them in the lead.

The exception would be Epignosis. Epignosis wouldn't have known in a 3v1 scenario that Hazelnut could take the lead, thus making him a possible busser.

This is all on the assumption Hazelnut is bad.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

[speedchuck]

As for MP's question that you didn't like my snarky response to: I honestly have no idea what an answer to that question would be. "You remind me of something I do as both alignments, but feel more pressure to do as scum. What do you say about that?" - to paraphrase. What do I say about that?

Instead of focusing on the notion that MP is working from a perspective of his own meta as he perceives it, you could focus on the assertion itself -- that you were excusing your lack of activity frequently enough to be suspicious. That is an accusation independent of meta. If you feel it shouldn't speak to your alignment, you could say why.

Ah. Okay.

Hm.

I mean, it's something I do, I guess. I'll start watching that if it's a scummy-looking thing. When I'm not fully reading the thread, and just skimming to keep up, I'll just not post at that time.
That doesn't really do anything to address the earlier accusation, but what can you do?

I excused my absence, and that's maybe scummy. Mkay.

Nope, still don't know what to say about this accusation-ish thing. This has been the most awkward post.

linki: lynch Epi? I don' wanna

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am not inclined to harp on the point, speedchuck. I do think some people are inclined to constantly update people about why they're not contributing when they're bad; I have no idea if you're such a person. It's a matter of tone that concerns me and retroactive answers don't change tone. I'll consider what you've said.

[speedchuck]

I'm torn on Wilgy. Either they're pushing Epi to stay irrelevant to whatever lynchy things might be going down D1, or they legitimately see something we don't for some reason and are pushing something regardless of what's easy.

I currently don't think I want to lynch the good doctor.

[Epignosis]

I still have nutella as my top suspect for today.

I harbor a mild suspicion of FZ. because in our last outing, I was able to almost immediately identify her as a civilian, and the impression I had of her that brought me to that perspective is lacking here.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

Your fascination with me is adorable.

[FZ.]

Spoiler: show

I'm going to start by saying that I hate games that start with me having to defend myself. It never ends well. Either I get lynched, or I spend the entire game trying to tell people that they are wrong, and everything I say just fits into their misconception of me being bad, and whether I succeed or not, I don't have much fun. Therefore, I'm going to do my best to defend myself, but I'm not going to go nuts when people decide to attack and tell me I'm No Uing, and silly stuff like that. This is how I play.
So:

A. MP, in general, this is day 1. Yes, more has happened than usual first days here, but still, it's not like I have evidence of someone actually being bad. I talk about what I read and pops to mind as I read it, and if someone pressures me for a read, I'll state what I see. What I saw (and forgive me for not fully reading your long strategy post), was you suggesting, or at least I assumed you were, that we play the cop card smartly, and a few fake claim. Thus, the baddies can't catch the real cop. Am I wrong about that?

Then, you give about 3-4 names in green, and the rest in grey. So far, so good. I can see you doing it both as a civ and as a baddie. Then, when someone else gives a coloured list, you don't ask about their suspects, but rather why that person trusts Marmot. How can you not see why this looks suspicious? It felt to me like someone trying to fish for reasons for trusting people. And the fact that you were first to give your list (no matter that it wasn't a coloured one, got me even more worried. It's like you were drawing out people to make such a list so you can use it.

Given all that, the fact that you joined the vote on me made me doubt your civviness.
I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of things, and if you are a civvie, then yes, we should clear things fast, but please explain to me how your actions are from a civvie point of view.


Damn, I need to go. Plenty more to say. I hope to be back later before you all lynch me.

Thank you so much, FZ.; I understand much better now.

I really didn't fathom how my post inquiring about Marmot could be seen as suspicious because I didn't even think of that interpretation.

I can now comprehend how you reached that perspective, but it wasn't what I was accomplishing with that post. I specifically asked about Marmot because the rest of the reads seemed immediately agreeable or reasonable to me, and I have trouble reading Marmot especially early in games.

On reflection, I might not have made that same post if I realized the perspective that you spouted here.

I'm not one to exercise caution when discussing information in the thread, for better or worse, not because I'm careless but in this case because I just didn't think of it that way.

I still don't think it'll matter much though if everyone posts their damn reads, so that we don't have a situation like this.

Maybe you're being genuine, I don't know. I like the fact that you're at least considering things, but look at Speedchuck's list:
MP
Epi
Marmot
Long Con
JaggedJimmyJay
insertnamehere
Dyslexicon
Luke11646
nutella
FZ
DrWilgy
Eloh

The middle group was in blue. While you were suspicious of me at that time, you didn't say anything about Wilgy or Eloh. I thought that in mafia, we're trying to find the baddies, not the civvies, and if you were interested in his motives, why not inquire about the suspects and not the civvie? Why was it so important for you to understand why he thought someone, who was not even discussed much at that point, was a civ? I can't really understand this.


And by the way, I am more careful when it comes to talking about information. Remember that game you hosted (that I shall not name), where Epi and LC were doing everything they could to lynch me, and I wouldn't say anything of importance until I really lost it? That's how I play. The thing I don't hide, is my thoughts at any relevant point. I realise that it may make me look bad when I say someone might be suspicious, but then again not, at the same time, but I don't really care. I have nothing to hide.

What do you think of Nutella's post where she gives her reasoning for voting me? Please refer to its timing as well.

[FZ.]

F.Z.

Her first post is rather difficult to follow. It has already been discussed some; I have a couple different questions based upon the highlighted content:

Spoiler: show

Hi. I was sure a lot more people would check in by now, and I'd miss a lot.

Epi and LC have started the game strongly quite early. This is unlike the last heist game where they seemed relatively trusting of each other (and were both civvies). It feels genuine at the moment, especially since Epi just went back on his suspicion. We'll see. And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things, but while the jokey atmosphere is not uncommon for day 0, I always feel like it's an easy way for baddies to blend in on day 0 and appear like they have no care in the world. So I'll be keeping an eye here.

Carry on.

~ Can you expand on what differences you perceive in the LC/Epi interaction early in this game versus the previous heist (Blue vs. Red?) and what that difference means to you? It is unclear. LC and Epi seemed to trust each other at the start of last game. LC acted like he's Epi's body guard or something, and when I asked Epi about it, he preferred not to answer. ANd like I said, they were both civvies. So when they started going at each other right at the start, it felt different. The jokey tone made me doubt my initial gut feeling that the difference meant something, so my post there just conveys that I've noticed something and I'm keeping an eye

~ What was the purpose or inspiration for mentioning INH in this post? when I thought that maybe that exchange could be innocent, INH was someone I thought could be trying to make something more of that situation with his facetious attitude. Like I said, it's easy to look at ease on the first day when you're bad. I don't think INH has posted much or at all since then.

Spoiler: show

This feels like you're trying to draw out the cop. And it feels even worse when it was your idea in the first place to give a list of civvie reads.


I think I might vote for you MP.

This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.Like I said, it's interesting that he didn't ask about the suspects, only about one specific trusted one, who wasn't on others' list or a consensus among the players

Spoiler: show

To be fair, I think that Nutella and I are getting accused for similar things. If it's between me and her, I'll vote Nutella to save myself, but I can't say I really see what Epi is seeing. People keep thinking that only baddies say something but contradict themselves in the same post to leave every option open later on. That's bullshit. As a baddie, I've tried to look determined plenty of times. Going after someone relentlessly, and I'm often a lot more hesitant as a civvie because the pressure of making a mistake is making me doubt myself.

Regarding the highlighted portion, it'd be ideal if you could expand, FZ, on the specifics of Epi's suspicion of nutella that you don't agree with. You've sort of paired yourself with her by stating that the cases are similar and that she'd only be your vote if self-preservation demands it. Tell me more about the similarities you observe. At them time, I felt that we were both being suspected for basically one post which people viewed as containing both smudging someone and taking it back, or something like that. Apparently, I wasn't being accusatory enough in my post, just throwing something out there and going back on it. That's how I perceived that accusation, and thought Nutella was being accused for the same thing. But since then Epi has explained that his suspicion was for different reasons, and I can't say her post with her vote put me at ease. I will address that later on.

That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

My answers in Orange in the text. You're also very welcome to check my previous games when I'm suspected. Let me know what you find...

[Tangrowth]

Back now. Should be here until right around EoD. I'll catch up quickly here.

[Tangrowth]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

You wish.

[Tangrowth]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

Why do you ask out of nowhere?

[nutella]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

I'm going back to wanting to think this as well.

[Tangrowth]

Oh my god, Jay, I'm so glad that you're back to normal. I was seriously concerned I'd come back before EoD and still see you'd be Vompatting it up, and I had no idea what I was going to do if that was the case.

[Tangrowth]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

I'm going back to wanting to think this as well.

Explain?

[speedchuck]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

Why do you ask out of nowhere?

It's something I do sometimes. Helps me with direction in the game, gets me into discussion.

[Tangrowth]

I generally agree with your reads here, Jay.

I have one question re: DrWilgy though since I haven't sorted him yet. You said:

...I see one post suitable to the character I’d associate with his town play which also inspires a question...

Can you elaborate upon this?

[nutella]

Gut feels right now. Order does not matter.

DO NOT LYNCH:
Dyslexicon
Marmot
Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay
Long Con
speedchuck
nutella

MAYBE SOMETHING PARANOIA:
MovingPictures07

MAYBE LYNCH:
Luke11646
insertnamehere
DrWilgy
Elohcin
FZ

Pretty much my thoughts exactly at this point.

[Tangrowth]

Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

Why do you ask out of nowhere?

It's something I do sometimes. Helps me with direction in the game, gets me into discussion.

Cool, cool cool cool. Fair enough. Thanks for the answer.

I'm going to put higher emphasis on catching up at the moment given there's just an hour and a half until EoD, but I want to interact with you all as well. Where's your head at right now, speedchuck? Whom are you considering for today's vote and why? You may have spoken more about this recently as well; don't feel you have to re-write anything you have already. I'm just trying to figure you out and get your input.

[speedchuck]

Right now, I've got a POE going on.

DO NOT LYNCH:
Dyslexicon
Marmot
Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay
Long Con
speedchuck
Wilgy
MovingPictures07

NOT GONNA COMPLAIN:
FZ
nutella

MAYBE LYNCH:
Luke11646
insertnamehere
Elohcin

That's not to say that my not lynch people are all town, but in terms of who I want to lynch right now, this is my happy list. It's not very unique, but it's a start. I've got a few more thoughts that I think you'll get while catching up, but a current POE list never hurts.

[Dyslexicon]

Please expand on the tinfoil concern you previously had about Marmot.

Don't know what I can share, but Marmots post on the timing issue he had with FZ's response to me seemed to assume mafia day chat if I had read it correctly, and I didn't know if mafia had day chat even if I tried investigating this, and Marmot wouldn't either if he is town. But if it's custom then I assume Marmot just assumed this, and besides that, town can also make assumptions like that even without there being a reason for it (I've learned the hard way). Tell me if this doesn't make sense and is still important to you.

[Dyslexicon]

Expanding on this, at the time of this posts it was 3 vs 4 with Hazelnut in the lead.

The order of votes was that the 3 on FZ came before the 4 on Hazelnut. I don't think it's likely there was a bussing on Hazelnut meaning a busser would have to tie thier teammate up if they are into that, then put them in the lead.

The exception would be Epignosis. Epignosis wouldn't have known in a 3v1 scenario that Hazelnut could take the lead, thus making him a possible busser.

This is all on the assumption Hazelnut is bad.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

If this reasoning hinges on Nut being scum, why not vote Nut instead who actually already have a vote on her? As I see it Epi is pretty unlikely to get lynched as it stands, or do you disagree with this?

[Tangrowth]

Jay, regarding your second reads post, I have a couple of comments regarding FZ:

That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

I wanted to single that out, because that expresses a problem I've been having with FZ. from the start of the game. I still don't really know where her head is at remotely, and I feel we have the potential to mindmeld pretty well just like you and I do. Hopefully she's spoken to that and responded to some of your beefs/inquiries here; I look forward to reading those myself.

I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

To speak to this, since FZ. and I have played together fairly extensively when it comes to her history here on TS (and otherwise I've hosted her in Pikmin), I would say it's difficult to interpret FZ.'s emotional responses for any sort of alignment-indicative behavior. I've seen her get genuinely upset plenty of times as both alignments, particularly because she unfortunately has a tendency to get mislynched around these parts. I would say I've seen plenty of emotion from her when bad as well though.

[Dyslexicon]

This has been the most awkward post.

I'm glad you said it. Or am I?

[Dyslexicon]

Oh wow, everyone logs on. I'm not really here cause I'm working with my exam. Real hard.

[speedchuck]

Expanding on this, at the time of this posts it was 3 vs 4 with Hazelnut in the lead.

The order of votes was that the 3 on FZ came before the 4 on Hazelnut. I don't think it's likely there was a bussing on Hazelnut meaning a busser would have to tie thier teammate up if they are into that, then put them in the lead.

The exception would be Epignosis. Epignosis wouldn't have known in a 3v1 scenario that Hazelnut could take the lead, thus making him a possible busser.

This is all on the assumption Hazelnut is bad.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

If this reasoning hinges on Nut being scum, why not vote Nut instead who actually already have a vote on her? As I see it Epi is pretty unlikely to get lynched as it stands, or do you disagree with this?

I hate to answer Wilgy's question for him, but since he may not be back:

That post was in response to a bus vs save situation. The post talks about a world that assumes nut is bad. Wilgy was analyzing that world, but that doesn't mean anything regarding his read on nut. I don't know how he reads nut.

I would like to know that, though.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Didn't you ask this in another game we played together?

I did, didn't I? o.o
I really don't want to use your politeness and well spokenness (is that even a word?) against you, but it somehow freaks me out a bit. And you crushed my heart the first time I played here and how can I ever recover from that? But really, I think I'll have to eventually start to read you like I read JJJ last game, just decide upon something.

Dizzy, first off, I am reading Epi as town still, but he is an incredibly capable mafia (and well aware of that fact and proud of it, as you can see).

He's hunting with fervor and better than anyone else right now. I always have my concerns, but I haven't seen anything alarming from him, and I'll be poking him throughout the game to be sure. I think others should as well.

Secondly, thanks for your reads.

I would contend that Luke is playing fast and loose for a newbie; that makes him look good in my eyes because I think a mafia newbie would either be intimidated into overexplaining or lurking, not making himself so overly underexplained or 'convenient' (to steal nutella's word for his vote). Tentatively, of course, and despite him not engaging more. Curious how you reached slight scum there.

Thanks for the infos on Epi. I don't experience Luke fast an loose, actually he disappeared when I asked him about his read on me. Could be coincident, could be not. The exact read could be many things, I don't know if I really have many exact reads yet overall.

Vote Luke

Could go Marmot

How does Luke's contradictory/double placement of LC make him bad?

I mostly want to here him talk about it first.

Dizzy, thanks for the response(s) here.

I understand your response regarding my mannerisms. I would emphasize that they're non-alignment-indicative, but obviously you can do with that information however you wish. When I'm actually invested in games, I've grown accustomed to getting the eyeball. I'm not always good at dealing with it but feel free to suspect or prod me however you like, and I'll try to do my best to alleviate any concerns.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I generally agree with your reads here, Jay.

I have one question re: DrWilgy though since I haven't sorted him yet. You said:

...I see one post suitable to the character I’d associate with his town play which also inspires a question...

Can you elaborate upon this?

Wilgy has a unique manner of hunting; he considers angles that others don't and looks for clues in places others ignore. I think his perspective of the shift in voting being more likely representative of a save instead of a bus (when neither notion was a significant dialogue at that point to my memory and his own vote was in contrast to his concern) is suitable to the types of dynamics he pays attention to as a hunter. His standalone suspicion of Epi is another example.

[Dyslexicon]

I hate to answer Wilgy's question for him, but since he may not be back:

That post was in response to a bus vs save situation. The post talks about a world that assumes nut is bad. Wilgy was analyzing that world, but that doesn't mean anything regarding his read on nut. I don't know how he reads nut.

I would like to know that, though.

I think I got the context, but didn't his vote on Epi follow that train of thought where Nut was scum? Anyway, probably best Wilgy clears this up.

[Tangrowth]

@MP - Also, regarding your self meta thing. This is all good and well and I follow you on all points. It basically boils down to do I believe you or do I not? I don't want to use my experience or perception of you against you in an unfair way, I just have the thoughts and feels that I do. And I'm not really scum reading you, actually thinking it's (well percentage wise (?)) likely that you are town. In any case, keep on keeping on. One question though - How did Speed go from being a town read to one of your two vote considerations of the day? I didn't follow the progression when I looked over your posts. Can you talk about that?

What do you mean two vote considerations? I think maybe you misunderstood something that I said; I'll consider anyone that's in my greys, which was more than two when I left. I think I did call him and FZ. out specifically though, so maybe that's what you're referring to?

I'm having a hard time reading speedchuck. I declared he was town earlier based on his effort, but there's something about his posts and tone that are nagging at me just a bit, which is why I've been poking at him perhaps a bit more than most others. I need to dive into his post history and re-assess to get a better handle on how I feel about him. Hope that makes sense.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You're also very welcome to check my previous games when I'm suspected. Let me know what you find...

Could you give me an example of a game in which you were bad?

[Dyslexicon]

I understand your response regarding my mannerisms. I would emphasize that they're non-alignment-indicative, but obviously you can do with that information however you wish. When I'm actually invested in games, I've grown accustomed to getting the eyeball. I'm not always good at dealing with it but feel free to suspect or prod me however you like, and I'll try to do my best to alleviate any concerns.

This cordial response is exactly the kind of thing that does not alleviate any concerns lol. But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate it. Mafia is a terrible game. o.o

[JaggedJimmyJay]

*wills INH into the thread*

[Tangrowth]

Jay, reading your third reads post now. I just clarified a bit re: speedchuck, but honestly I'm not even that sure how I feel about him myself, hence the bouncing around. I'll take what you say about him into consideration; if I have time, I might do a bit of digging before EoD once I've caught up. Nonetheless, hope my response above to Dizzy at least somewhat addresses your request.

I probably have more that I see in that third reads post of yours to respond to, but in the interest of time I'm going to keep reading. Perhaps I'll revisit during N1 if possible.

[Tangrowth]

MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Wait, does MP town read Speed or not? o.o

I don't even know!

[speedchuck]

I don't think I've ever caused this much read distress on D1 before. Either I got mislynched, or was soon not a consideration.

My apparent slimy earnestness pleases me.