[ENDGAME] Seinfeld Mafia

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Which theme should be next in my TV sitcom Heist series?

Friends [Sockpuppets]
4
44%
Friends [Regular Accounts]
2
22%
Malcolm in the Middle [Sockpuppets]
0
No votes
Malcolm in the Middle [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
Scrubs [Sockpuppets]
2
22%
Scrubs [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
OTHER (please post suggestion in-thread) [Sockpuppets]
0
No votes
OTHER (please post suggestion in-thread) [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
I don't care!
1
11%
 
Total votes: 9
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#751

Post by Julinook »

What's the deal with George Costanza, Kenny Bania, and Tim Whatley?

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George's comments

Spoiler: show
George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:41 pm Hey Kenny Bania. What's your story?

Standard prod.

Spoiler: show
George Costanza wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:37 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:12 pm Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?
Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.
Day 1 votes generally aren't really substantial or based on actual specific clues or content. I didn't feel good about the Newman bandwagon. I didn't vote for Newman.

I'm someone who goes by gut instincts a lot, and I felt Uncle Leo was wishy washy in his stances, as long as he didn't draw attention to himself or garner too much opposition and preferred following the bunch; insincere; not as vocal or skeptical as people should be on Day 2.

My opinion on him hasn't changed yet.

George answers to a Whatley prod. I have more to say about the prod and will get to it later.

George praises Whatley on Day 4

If nothing else I disagree with the reasoning George provided here. He likes Whatley because he is "balanced, calm, and not impulsive", which to me basically describes a prototypical mafioso.

====================

Bania's comments

Haha just kidding.

Whatley's comments

Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:12 pm Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?
Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.

Returning to that prod. This pings me a bit. The prod upon George specifically kind of emerges from nothingness and in that regard it looks a bit forced.

Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:32 pm I'm noticing a trend of people who just didn't give a damn about their day one vote. How is this acceptable?

This was a general comment made in response to a George post about his Day 1 vote being less substantial. Tim's comment is accusatory, but only indirectly (and he didn't address George himself here). I can see this exchange working between teammates.

====================

Conclusion

I think they're compatible teammates and I'd call the interaction suggestive too.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#752

Post by Julinook »

What's the deal with George Costanza and Uncle Leo?

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George's comments

Spoiler: show
George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:46 pm I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

Feeling good about Leo on N1.

Spoiler: show
George Costanza wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:38 pm
Uncle Leo wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:29 pm
The Soup Nazi wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:19 pm
<snip>

Leo

Why pick on Seinfeld of all the Newman lynchers. Picks up on Yankees mogul's phony slander of him, but doesn't act omgusy about it. Ludicrous notion of me and evil hex putting up a fight to distract the crowd. Up your dosage, old geezer!
Why Jerry? because he is the one that sealed Newman's fate by changing his vote (assuming no further actions were taken). If anything, that initial comment was more about me working in Jerry's incredible cousin Jeffrey, you know, at the Parks department.
I agree with what you're saying to some extent, especially earlier, like right after the lynch. The fact that Jerry downplayed it too, and made it seem like he didn't have any other options (which he did have), also made me feel weary. However, it's those balls of steel on a day 1 that make me place Jerry on my safe list now. He wouldn't have drawn that much attention to himself, he made a decision that killed Newman, he stuck by it. It was a deciding vote to lynch a townie on Day 1, not something mafia would have done to blend in. There's like a 2% chance he's not who he says he is. For now, he's on my safe list.

Similarly, Elaine is on my safe list for her frustration post and revealing/not revealing her PR.

George responds to Leo's concerns about me with a weird combination of waffling, tinfoiling, and trust (in me).

Spoiler: show
George Costanza wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:17 pm Out of everyone else atm, I'd say Uncle Leo is playing with his cards close to his chest and I really don't like him voting for Puddy alongside two of his suspects but going ahead with it anyway. Reeks to me.
George Costanza wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:27 pm Jerry, why are you trusting Uncle Leo?
On Day 2 George was clearly less impressed with Leo, after initially having read him as a civilian. The change of heart here actually kind of speaks to me, because if they're teammates I don't see a good reason for that to happen. George had already picked a side on Leo and didn't need to reverse it -- I don't believe Leo was really a top-tier lynch prospect at this point.

George answers Leo's question about his Peterman read.

George explains his D2 read on Leo to Whatley.

George reiterates and reinforces his suspicion of Leo on D4. / Pledges likely Leo vote

Ended up voting Frank instead given Leo's recent absence.

This progression makes me feel the same way. George's read on Leo is malleable throughout the game, and in a way that I don't think looks ordinary for mafia teammate distancing.

=================

Leo's comments

Nothing not already covered.

=================

Conclusion

To me this interaction looks unlikely to represent a teammate relationship.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#753

Post by Julinook »

What's the deal with J Peterman, Kenny Bania, and Tim Whatley?

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Peterman's comments

Bania is included in Peterman's player salad.

Another Bania prod

==================

Whatley's comments

Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm @Uncle Leo, why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"
Uncle Leo wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 pmpeterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy
Arent you in the same boat?

Whatley discredits a suspicion Leo states of Peterman by asserting hypocrisy. Not my favorite thing.

Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:24 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:24 am I also keep forgetting Tim Whatley exists. That's not ideal.
Why do you think this is this the case? I feel like I've voiced my thoughts consistently?

I'll be voting Peterman. I don't feel bad about it, but there are a handful I can say that about. Let's see where this goes.

Stein, if time allows, I'll review those you asked about.

Despite that, he still voted Peterman despite having made no direct mention of him prior. I think at this point Peterman may have already had a tally lead (it was before Elaine's tracker reveal).

It's possible for this to be mafia-mafia, but my immediate inclination is to think that if there's a mafia here, it's Whatley, and Peterman is his easy vote.

Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:26 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:21 pm It's not LyLo, so all this move gets the mafia team (if Elaine is lying) is a push to LyLo with a confirmed mafia in place. That's not terrible for them, but she'd have no need -- unless Peterman is also mafia.
If it's a claim for teammate save I'd be somewhat shocked, it feels too early for that.

Whatley turned away my hypothetical scenario featuring a mafia Elaine fake-tracking to rescue a mafia Peterman from a lynch. Again, if Whatley is mafia then this looks like TMI that Peterman is a civilian.

==================

Conclusion

It's not rock solid, but my intuitions are telling me these two aren't teamed together.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#754

Post by Julinook »

What's the deal with J Peterman and Uncle Leo?

Image

Peterman's comments

Leo is included in Peterman's player salad.

====================

Leo's comments

Leo thinks three others are civilians because they voted for Peterman, and he thinks Peterman is "definitely mafia" because he "hadn't said much of anything substantial.

I don't entirely follow Leo's mindset here. This came in the immediate aftermath of the Puddy lynch. I don't know if it was necessary for Leo to yell and scream about his teammate here; it was still the night phase and nobody was about to be lynched. I'll still acknowledge the bizarre degree of confidence Leo must have that Peterman is mafia here for these reads to make sense though.

====================

Conclusion

I think it's technically compatible, but gun to my head I say no.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#755

Post by Julinook »

What's the deal with Kenny Bania, Tim Whatley, and Uncle Leo?

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Whatley's comments

Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm @Uncle Leo, why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"
Uncle Leo wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 pmpeterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy
Arent you in the same boat?

Same thing I mentioned in the previous assessment. I'm not entirely sure a mafioso poops on his teammates head like this.

He asked me about Leo's vote for me.

It's not much of a thing, but he did specifically seek to have my loud ass talk about Leo.

=================

Leo's comments

Muses about his Jerry tinfoil, qualifying that he is usually wrong when he feels that way, in response to Whatley's entry concerns about me.

Spoiler: show
Uncle Leo wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:05 am
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm @Uncle Leo, why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"
Uncle Leo wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 pmpeterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy
Arent you in the same boat?
Am I in the same boat? No. Why would you think i am? I’m pretty sure you know that I don’t believe I am in the same boat. Did you mean to say “you’re in the same boat.” ?

I believe I explained my vote for Stein earlier in the thread. If not, it’s because it was Day 1 and what did I have to go by? Not much. So his quickness to suspect me aroused suspicion in me.

This one is kind of tasty. I like the indignance of Leo's response here, particularly in the highlighted portion, with regard to teammate [non-]compatibility. For some reason this thing is really trying to make me tag Leo here and it's pissing me off, so hopefully this long-ass sentence will get that out of my face.

=================

It worked!

Anyway, that last point speaks to me a bit. I don't suppose these two make great teammates.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#756

Post by Julinook »

Image

Note: suggestive relationships are by default also compatible.

Dynamics:

~ Frank has 1 suggestive relationship and 3 compatible relationships.

~ George has 2 suggestive relationships and 3 compatible relationships.

~ Peterman has 2 compatible relationships.

~ Whatley has 1 suggestive relationship and 2 compatible relationships.

~ Leo has 2 compatible relationships.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#757

Post by Julinook »

That effort may be enough to change my 3-player POE to this:

Frank Costanza
George Costanza
Tim Whatley

Peterman and Leo don't fit into as many teams, and that's good enough for me to at least match the credit-value of Frank's civilian cop ID.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#758

Post by Julinook »

I want to ensure everyone is aware and conscious of the importance of two things moving forward:

1) Civilians need to try to vote together as much as possible. Close votes give the mafia potential angles to rescue themselves. We need to make collective decisions and live or die with them. It's not an emergency at 6 vs. 2, but it's still a tight situation.

2) Civilian presence in the thread near or at EOD significantly increases the likelihood of a successful lynch. Full civilian control of end-phase vote mobility is how we work as a team to overrule their cooperative voting power no matter who gets lynched.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#759

Post by Celeste »

Good evening everyone. I'd like to apologize for my absence today. The office was slammed.

Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen.

I probably would've swapped to Leo or Elaine if it weren't for her hard claim.

I will review my suspects tomorrow. Until then, goodnight.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#760

Post by Nicol Bolas »

George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:47 pm I think you should give Long Con as a player a little more credit than that. That said, no doubt he's laughing in his grave now at how he got the two most vocal posters to vote for me without a hesitation. Well done Jackie. You played it well.
Nobody is voting for you because of what Jackie said.

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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#761

Post by Nicol Bolas »

George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:47 pm Again, do we think Jackie is going to be that blatant in bussing a team mate? I don't honestly believe you believe that----deep down. ;)
When you leave the tracker AND the cop alive, what other options do you have?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#762

Post by Nicol Bolas »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:35 pm I'm going to engage in a little dangerous night kill analysis for Soup Nazi. I just stated that his being killed over me is something I've considered, and there is also at least one discernible motive I can conceive of to kill him over the two role claimers -- their reads. If the mafia team decides that none of the three (Elaine, Steinbrenner, and Soup Nazi) is going to be lynched, then they have less obvious interest in killing a role claimer given that both are claimed to be expended. Their choice can then be otherwise motivated. I want to see what Soup Nazi's reads looked like in his final day.
Where did I claim to be expended, Jerry?

I am not all out of sponges at all.
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Re: [DAY 2] Seinfeld Mafia

#763

Post by Nicol Bolas »

George Costanza wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:41 pm Catching up. Sorry peeps, RL has kicked me in the ass majorly.
Elaine Benes wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:29 am
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:20 am
Elaine Benes wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:15 amWhat are these reasons, Jerry?
At the time of those reads:

Elaine - role claim
George Costanza - decent, effortful infusion into the thread soon before those reads
Steinbrenner - consistently relevant contributions under the role play, handles questions gracefully
Jackie - strong start to the game, tonally agreeable
Soup Nazi - Indignant and irritable, particularly in my direction, in a way that seemed civilian
Leo - A few incidents where I felt he exhibited genuine hunting effort
I want to take a peek myself to see if I can find the nipple in somebody's soul.

I'll start with George.

I get slightly negative vibes from George:
George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:46 pm I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.
I'm good and STELLA! is dead.

This last post though:
George Costanza wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:46 pm Jackie has been quiet.
This is such a...I don't know...random thing to say about someone he felt good about, but said he felt bad about Estelle, who had said even less than Jackie Chiles.
what is this even.

You know, I did think it was rather farfetched that all four main characters of the show (George, Seinfeld, Elaine and Kramer) would RANDOMLY be picked as town. Kramer was town, I'm town, pretty sure I have good feelings about Jerry...so Elaine, as someone who roleclaimed and wasn't night killed, what's your deal?

Sure Estelle is dead. Yes, I felt peculiar about her. No, I didn't vote for her at any time. Suspicion arises. Everyone is suspicious at some point.

Jackie was a lot more vocal, and when he was, I had good feelings about him. He disappeared, he missed voting. I questioned it. What's up with that? How is it random? I liked the way Jackie was talking, I didn't like the direction Estelle was headed. I'm allowed to make judgement calls based on how I see them.
This post stinks worse than Kramer's laundry. Bear in mind that I knew Jackie was bad news when I posted this, so my interest in George calling Jackie quiet was piqued.

If the roles are randomly assigned, why would it be farfetched that we're all good guys?

By the logic George presented, he has to be bad!

But this kind of thinking has me thinking he isn't. Even I- confession!- have fallen victim to the erroneous thought that somebody in the main of the theme has to be bad, and I know better!

And nobody was calling Jackie bad.

Unvote.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#764

Post by Julinook »

I'm glad to see some work was done overnight. I had a terrible night. My girlfriend Jodi is a masseuse, and she refuses to give me a massage. What's the deal with that? What's the point then?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#765

Post by November »

Frank hasn't commented on me IDing him at all. Frank hascn't commented on a lot of things and it makes him difficult to read. I am leaning toward voting for him today. I am unlikely to be here for the EOD.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#766

Post by November »

Frank Costanza wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:16 pm I think Big Stein's analysis of the lawyer has a lot of merit. And not just because he's black. I mean, not because he's black at all! But one thing you missed, Steinbrenner: he did mention Estelle before challenging Jerry.
On another not, rereading Estelle's three posts, I find it satisfying to read them in her roleplaying voice. It works despite her admission that she doesn't know how.
Not sure what to make of that, other than that he's mentioning her to mention her.
I'd also love to here a follow up to this post. I've asked a few times now what parts of my Jackie ISO had merit, and the bottom comment about Jackie/Estelle seems like something he arbitrarily tacked on. I see a relatively good amount of potential for soft distancing between Jackie and Frank in their respective posts.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#767

Post by November »

here, hear. whatever.
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Re: [DAY 1] Seinfeld Mafia

#768

Post by November »

Jackie Chiles wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:19 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:53 pm ASSMAN! I'LL GIVE HIM ASSMAN!

*votes Kramer*
Now where did this vote come from? You criticize George, Elaine, Estelle... but then vote Kramer with no real explanation! Not to mention that this is a follower vote on someone I'm feeling pretty good about. Highly questionable behavior.

On another not, rereading Estelle's three posts, I find it satisfying to read them in her roleplaying voice. It works despite her admission that she doesn't know how.

Change vote: Frank
This was the only vote for Frank on Day 1, and it came late in the phase. Uncle Leo accused Elaine and The Soup Nazi of casting meaningless votes on each other for distancing purposes on Day 1. I can level the same accusation against Jackie here.
Frank makes no mention of Jackie until my ISO and Elaine's claim at the end of Day 3, at which point he becomes a cheerleader on the bandwagon.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#769

Post by November »

Jackie consistently named Frank as a suspect without ever actually applying pressure to him.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#770

Post by Julinook »

It's a vote I could support. Lynching a civilian who has been ID'd civilian with a godfather still alive would be a gut punch, but that's only relevant if he's a civilian. I think he looks bad.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#771

Post by November »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:11 pm It's a vote I could support. Lynching a civilian who has been ID'd civilian with a godfather still alive would be a gut punch, but that's only relevant if he's a civilian. I think he looks bad.
A nagging feeling in the back of my mind tells me the two cop IDs were put to the worst possible use, targeting the Night 1 kill victim and the godfather.

Additionallly, I've been reviewing the interactions between George and Jackie just now. I think they reflect favorably on George. In contrast to my most recent point about Jackie/Frank, there seems to have been deliberate pressure applied to George by Jackie for a couple of days, while hanging back on Frank despite proclaiming them as his two most prominent suspects.
George, meanwhile, did an apparent 180 on Jackie and began prodding people about him mid-game. I like George more each time I read his posts, honestly. The bit about one of the four main characters needing to be bad stinks, but I don't think that thought has to have come from a dishonest mind. As a great man once said, it's not a lie if you believe it.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#772

Post by Julinook »

The biggest point of contention seems to be Whatley, who I view as a top suspect and a member of my 3-player and [hopefully] game-winning lynch set. Others have voiced trust (Elaine, George, perhaps Big Stein to a lesser degree). I arrive at my suspicion largely given my reduction of potential teams, which allowed me to tentatively move past Leo and Peterman. The other three are what's left.

So I'd ask someone who trusts Whatley to examine all the interactions I checked which include Peterman and/or Leo and tell me if/where you disagree with my conclusions.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#773

Post by November »

My ID is the one reason I have not to vote for Frank. Even if he does turn out to be the godfather, it would be preferable today to find his teammate. I'd feel a hell of a lot better about lynching Frank if we had two confirmed vanilla mafias.

I've been ignoring Peterman today. I see him now as low hanging fruit and I still can't shake my bad feeling about Leo because f the way he's treated Peterman.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#774

Post by Julinook »

Elaine and you, Steinbrenner-advocate, have both voiced improved feelings about George. I can at least state that his urgency and effort this phase are good to see and inspire hesitation in my own suspicion. I haven't removed him from the pool though given the remaining interactive dynamics in play.

It has me viewing a Frank/Whatley team as the most likely of all.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#775

Post by November »

I could vote for Whatley. What stands out to me most about his posts right now is three similar instances of him giving unsatisfying answers for his questionable behavior:
Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:12 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:41 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:12 pm Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?
Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.
This is a true assessment, Whatley. Who knows what roles could be out there at this time? But I have a bone to pick with you here and Big Stein's gonna fight, you better believe that! First, you criticize Elaine because she asked for role claims. But then you can't point to any specific harm that could come from this. You gave a non-answer. The Yankees are all about answers! I don't know how you do it in dentistry, but here we get to the bottom of things! I'm as iffy on Elaine's roleclaim as anybody, but I don't understand what you're saying about her here.
I see, I interpreted what she was asking differently. I see no harm in asking for role claims. I see harm in people who are lying to make vague statements about needing to get more information.

This relates the core of our situation. We are always trying to get more information. I'm sure when we have more information and the time is right to share, we will. Elaine should know this.

Sien, what do you think of Uncle Leo's vote for you? What do you want right now?
Tim Whatley wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:33 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:52 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:13 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:42 pm Don't be so upset Jerry, discussion will come.

Your theories regarding Steinbrenner, that's a lie isn't it? At least in regards to having deeper thought on him.
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm lying about welcoming opposing reads on him?
Tim Whatley, I'd like an answer to this question please.
Ah, sorry. I was just poking you to see what would happen. Nothing interesting unfortunately.
Tim Whatley wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:53 pm Good evening everyone. I'd like to apologize for my absence today. The office was slammed.

Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen.

I probably would've swapped to Leo or Elaine if it weren't for her hard claim.

I will review my suspects tomorrow. Until then, goodnight.
I don't feel he ever adequately explained why Elaine's plea for information was troublesome, and his two claims of reaction baiting don't really address the underlying thought process of his gameplay. His prod of Jerry came out of nowhere and looks bizarre to me, and he waves his hand at the Peterman vote claiming it was done for reactions, but as far as I can tell he disappeared from the thread soon after and didn't return until well after the deadline had passed.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#776

Post by Julinook »

I follow you, Yankeeman. This post in particular is perplexing:
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:12 pm I see, I interpreted what she was asking differently. I see no harm in asking for role claims. I see harm in people who are lying to make vague statements about needing to get more information.

This relates the core of our situation. We are always trying to get more information. I'm sure when we have more information and the time is right to share, we will. Elaine should know this.

Sien, what do you think of Uncle Leo's vote for you? What do you want right now?
I don't know what is being implied in the highlighted portion or how it applies to Elaine's behavior.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#777

Post by Julinook »

To further clarify how I've arrived at Frank/Whatley, I'll return to my chart. This time I have removed George from the equation, dangerously trusting in the fire seemingly lit under his Day 4 arse.

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Three compatible pairings remain.

Note though: Frank, Bania, and Whatley have never said a word to or about one another in this game thread. It's not typical mafia behavior, but I am not sure it'd be surprising in this scenario wherein both player slots have generally been populated by low posters.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#778

Post by Julinook »

Within that paradigm, Peterman is only mafia if Leo is his teammate. That entire interaction can be reduced to Leo's "these guys are civilians because they voted Peterman" analysis, which occurred during a night phase when there'd be no urgency for Leo to rip on his teammate so blatantly. I don't feel much about that.

If it's Leo/Frank, it's again only that post which hints toward it -- I think a bit more convincingly than the Peterman/Leo link.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#779

Post by Julinook »

I may have just convinced myself to realign my 3-player POE to this though:

Frank Costanza
Tim Whatley
Uncle Leo
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Re: [DAY 1] Seinfeld Mafia

#780

Post by Principal Skinner »

George Steinbrenner wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:59 pm
Jackie Chiles wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:19 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:53 pm ASSMAN! I'LL GIVE HIM ASSMAN!

*votes Kramer*
Now where did this vote come from? You criticize George, Elaine, Estelle... but then vote Kramer with no real explanation! Not to mention that this is a follower vote on someone I'm feeling pretty good about. Highly questionable behavior.

On another not, rereading Estelle's three posts, I find it satisfying to read them in her roleplaying voice. It works despite her admission that she doesn't know how.

Change vote: Frank
This was the only vote for Frank on Day 1, and it came late in the phase. Uncle Leo accused Elaine and The Soup Nazi of casting meaningless votes on each other for distancing purposes on Day 1. I can level the same accusation against Jackie here.
Frank makes no mention of Jackie until my ISO and Elaine's claim at the end of Day 3, at which point he becomes a cheerleader on the bandwagon.
I agree with this: Jackie casting a "throwaway" vote on Frank and then "one-sided distancing." This makes me suspect Frank. His initial defenses of Stein & Soup could have been role play, which was discussed here I believe. The "unexplainable" vote on Puddy becomes explainable.
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:11 pm It's a vote I could support. Lynching a civilian who has been ID'd civilian with a godfather still alive would be a gut punch, but that's only relevant if he's a civilian. I think he looks bad.
I am now working under the theory that the remaining two are Whatley/Frank. If Frank has been potentially ID'd as civ, doesn't it make more sense to vote Whatley tonight? (Jerry, I see your vote is currently on Whatley) If Whatley is the Godfather, we know Frank is clear and can spend energy elsewhere. If Whatley is vanillia mafia, we can afford to mis-lynch Frank in pursuit of the Godfather. We run the same risk of getting civ on Whatley as we do Frank. We should at least vote someone who has not been ID'd civ already.

Placing a vote for Whatley now and will be unable to play again until 630pm central. I will be here for end of day discussions and potential vote swap.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#781

Post by November »

Frank/Whatley is currently looking like the most plausible team to me, but I'm not yet at a point where I'm comfortable removing anyone else from my POE.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#782

Post by Julinook »

George Steinbrenner wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:53 pm Frank/Whatley is currently looking like the most plausible team to me, but I'm not yet at a point where I'm comfortable removing anyone else from my POE.
Officially speaking, all five remain in my POE. As I work through the scenarios though, I can "eliminate" them separately, for pretend, and see where that leaves me. It has been illuminating, I think.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#783

Post by Julinook »

Goddamnit Leo I like that post.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#784

Post by November »

[mention]Uncle Leo[/mention], when you return, my most pressing concern about you is your treatment of J. Peterman in this game. You've been a vocal supporter of his bandwagon without actually supplying any of your own input on the player. I'm sure you can understand why this might look bad from my perspective. I want to know what it is that you saw in him, and why you're willing to drop it now? This post in particular does not sit well with me.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#785

Post by November »

If we can reach a consensus on Whatley then he'd be my preferred lynch today for the reasons Leo laid out. It's safer to lynch a player who does not have a town ID on them.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#786

Post by Julinook »

I want to state that I don't care about the "safer" lynch, because I think playing it safe it often the same as "not winning". However, I do think the notion of avoiding Frank is logical this time if and only if there is confidence and consensus in the alternative. Three of us seem okay with Whatley. I'm looking forward to hearing from Elaine, Peterman, and Whatley himself.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#787

Post by Julinook »

By the way, if Leo and George are civilians -- this Day 4 has been a wonderful example of teamwork. Even if not, most of it's genuine and I really appreciate that. This is what makes Mafia such a great game; when numerous players coordinate their different mind-spaces into a single, combined effort. So many civilian teams simply don't do it.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#788

Post by November »

Voting whatley. I'm probably not going to be here for EOD, but I'll try my best to make it. If I need to move a vote, I should at least be able to do that. But at this very moment I feel good about where it is.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#789

Post by Julinook »

Four hours. The game is on the line. Bring me your concerns ASAP.

I'll be around, but tonight I'm taking Winona out to that great Chinese place if I can find it. Maybe this guy knows where it is...

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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#790

Post by Larry David »

I am burnt the fuck out after today (and really for the last few days). I'm going to try to recharge for a bit and be back to actually play, but I just wanted to apologize for being so absent.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#791

Post by Julinook »

J Peterman wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:09 pm I am burnt the fuck out after today (and really for the last few days). I'm going to try to recharge for a bit and be back to actually play, but I just wanted to apologize for being so absent.
Do what you have to do Peterman, but please be aware that the lynch is finalized in 3 hours! There's little time to waste! Anything you can say or do could be immensely helpful and turn the game over completely. Imagine how big a boost it would be if you could convince others that you might be a civilian -- even without wasting time defending yourself and instead just finding those dang baddies.

I'm rooting for you, Peterman. I believe in you. The burnout is real, but the game is nearing its end. Let us cross the line together.

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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#792

Post by Spooky Ghost »

I still think Frank is the better lynch today. I hear what you're saying about Whatley and will move my vote if it makes a difference.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#793

Post by Julinook »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:06 pm I still think Frank is the better lynch today. I hear what you're saying about Whatley and will move my vote if it makes a difference.
If you had to narrow your suspect pool to just three names, who would they be?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#794

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Not because I believe Whatley is mafia, though, I don't see it (especially based on Kenny Bania's attitude--yeah, all 3 posts of them--read more like vanilla townie to me) but because this is a team effort and I want to be a team player.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#795

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Frank
Leo
Peterman
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#796

Post by Julinook »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:10 pm Not because I believe Whatley is mafia, though, I don't see it (especially based on Kenny Bania's attitude--yeah, all 3 posts of them--read more like vanilla townie to me) but because this is a team effort and I want to be a team player.
I appreciate the mindset. I know about your concerns regarding Frank. Is there something about Leo and/or Peterman that concerns you as well that we could talk about?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#797

Post by Julinook »

Wait a minute, hell no, George Costanza is scum. Full stop. Voting George.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#798

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Explain?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#799

Post by Julinook »

George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:13 pm you're basing your entire votes on Jackie's interactions with me, jerry/elaine? that's really lazy scum hunting. Terrible in fact.
Worst post in the thread.

From this defense:
Just a thought for you: after Elaine all but sealed his deal confirming she'd tracked him, he went down shouting me as his top suspect.

Do you honestly think that, along with the post above, is actually something a team mate would do? Do I think one of the people he named in that post is a team mate? Sure, it's more than probable. Do I think it's the name he was yelling the loudest aka me; no.

I think you should give Long Con as a player a little more credit than that. That said, no doubt he's laughing in his grave now at how he got the two most vocal posters to vote for me without a hesitation. Well done Jackie. You played it well.
Why the hell wouldn't Jackie do that? It's the point of WIFOM. I've seen a mafioso fake track their own teammate into a kill and cruise to victory with it; I can certainly conceive of this.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#800

Post by Celeste »

So... I guess we are en route to lynching me. Positives are that me dying won't end the game, negatives are we'll be closer to it.

I was hoping to come here and get to hunting but looks like I gotta defend for a moment, so let me take care of that first.
George Steinbrenner wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:39 pm I could vote for Whatley. What stands out to me most about his posts right now is three similar instances of him giving unsatisfying answers for his questionable behavior:
Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:12 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:41 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:12 pm Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?
Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.
This is a true assessment, Whatley. Who knows what roles could be out there at this time? But I have a bone to pick with you here and Big Stein's gonna fight, you better believe that! First, you criticize Elaine because she asked for role claims. But then you can't point to any specific harm that could come from this. You gave a non-answer. The Yankees are all about answers! I don't know how you do it in dentistry, but here we get to the bottom of things! I'm as iffy on Elaine's roleclaim as anybody, but I don't understand what you're saying about her here.
I see, I interpreted what she was asking differently. I see no harm in asking for role claims. I see harm in people who are lying to make vague statements about needing to get more information.

This relates the core of our situation. We are always trying to get more information. I'm sure when we have more information and the time is right to share, we will. Elaine should know this.

Sien, what do you think of Uncle Leo's vote for you? What do you want right now?
Tim Whatley wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:33 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:52 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:13 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:42 pm Don't be so upset Jerry, discussion will come.

Your theories regarding Steinbrenner, that's a lie isn't it? At least in regards to having deeper thought on him.
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm lying about welcoming opposing reads on him?
Tim Whatley, I'd like an answer to this question please.
Ah, sorry. I was just poking you to see what would happen. Nothing interesting unfortunately.
Tim Whatley wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:53 pm Good evening everyone. I'd like to apologize for my absence today. The office was slammed.

Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen.

I probably would've swapped to Leo or Elaine if it weren't for her hard claim.

I will review my suspects tomorrow. Until then, goodnight.
I don't feel he ever adequately explained why Elaine's plea for information was troublesome, and his two claims of reaction baiting don't really address the underlying thought process of his gameplay. His prod of Jerry came out of nowhere and looks bizarre to me, and he waves his hand at the Peterman vote claiming it was done for reactions, but as far as I can tell he disappeared from the thread soon after and didn't return until well after the deadline had passed.
How was that unsatisfactory? Elaine had pinged me with her claims, I think I had pointed this out. Then for the person who I was suspicious of to come in and request further information (while lying) pushed my ping into full suspicion. Elaine's plea for information wasn't troublesome, more so unnecessary and this is because we were already trying to get more information. We are always trying to get information, that's the only way for us to solve this game and is a given. Fluffy unnecessary posts along side purposeless lies create a chaos state and I didn't think it was assisting us in solving the game, only promoting some scheme she had going on (which I was technically right about).

And my pressure vote on Peterman? Is there anything wrong with that? am I supposed to not hunt and generate information? Also, to go back to the events of my Peterman vote, if I had a reason other than it being a pressure vote, why the hell did I swap to Chiles?

I suppose you either don't have an understanding of what I saw or you don't want my answers to satisfy you currently.
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