[ENDGAME] Seinfeld Mafia

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Which theme should be next in my TV sitcom Heist series?

Friends [Sockpuppets]
4
44%
Friends [Regular Accounts]
2
22%
Malcolm in the Middle [Sockpuppets]
0
No votes
Malcolm in the Middle [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
Scrubs [Sockpuppets]
2
22%
Scrubs [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
OTHER (please post suggestion in-thread) [Sockpuppets]
0
No votes
OTHER (please post suggestion in-thread) [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
I don't care!
1
11%
 
Total votes: 9
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#921

Post by Nicol Bolas »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:20 pm
Jackie Chiles wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:21 pm Well, hopefully we'll find out. *votes J Pederman*
At this point he had previously named three suspects -- the Costanzas and Elaine. So his Peterman vote was just the self-preservation opportunity I think. Moreover, he had not contributed to that Peterman wagon before (and prior to Elaine's hard claim it looked like Peterman was going down). Jackie's failure to comment on Peterman otherwise, or contribute to that wagon, to me looks like a mafioso keeping his distance from a mislynch. Had Peterman been his teammate, he had opportunities there to fish for credit with accusations against Peterman or even defend him outright -- something. I think that makes Peterman look a bit better.
Well, forgive me Jerry, if I don't trust your judgment. You were Jackie Chile's bowling partner a few days ago.

Vote J. Peterman

I think your paradigm of what's going on in this whole deal is way off. I think Jackie was the only person on his team really paying attention (unless you're on his team, of course), so I wouldn't put too much effort in trying to figure out their strategy. I think the mafia just are no good at what they do. Like men.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#922

Post by Julinook »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:25 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:21 pm
George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:20 pm And did Tim Whatley in no way sway your opinion about him with his contributions today?
He swayed them less than you and Leo have. Frank hasn't done much to move me either. I'm kind of banking on the chance that someone else is the godfather and can clear him. He's a top suspect though.
if Whatley is innocent, who would you lynch tomorrow?
The remaining two names in my then two-man POE would be Leo and Frank. I'd do a full reassessment before committing to that though, because I'm going to discard suspicion of the guy with 14 posts or you either. Who would you lynch?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#923

Post by Nicol Bolas »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:23 pm
Elaine Benes wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:19 pm I think you give the mafia too much credit, Jerry.
Could be. Is there a living teammate for Peterman that you think fits the paradigm?
Jerry.

Today was hell.

Hell.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#924

Post by Julinook »

Elaine Benes wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:26 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:20 pm
Jackie Chiles wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:21 pm Well, hopefully we'll find out. *votes J Pederman*
At this point he had previously named three suspects -- the Costanzas and Elaine. So his Peterman vote was just the self-preservation opportunity I think. Moreover, he had not contributed to that Peterman wagon before (and prior to Elaine's hard claim it looked like Peterman was going down). Jackie's failure to comment on Peterman otherwise, or contribute to that wagon, to me looks like a mafioso keeping his distance from a mislynch. Had Peterman been his teammate, he had opportunities there to fish for credit with accusations against Peterman or even defend him outright -- something. I think that makes Peterman look a bit better.
Well, forgive me Jerry, if I don't trust your judgment. You were Jackie Chile's bowling partner a few days ago.

Vote J. Peterman

I think your paradigm of what's going on in this whole deal is way off. I think Jackie was the only person on his team really paying attention (unless you're on his team, of course), so I wouldn't put too much effort in trying to figure out their strategy. I think the mafia just are no good at what they do. Like men.
Would this imply Peterman and Leo then? Who else doesn't know what they're doing?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#925

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Frank and Peterman if Whatley is innocent.

Leo's meltdown was too dramatic and extreme to be scum I think.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#926

Post by Celeste »

K I'm cop, Leo's a Mafioso. I haven't used my 2nd check. This is why Elaine s claim game spooked me.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#927

Post by Nicol Bolas »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:28 pm
Elaine Benes wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:26 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:20 pm
Jackie Chiles wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:21 pm Well, hopefully we'll find out. *votes J Pederman*
At this point he had previously named three suspects -- the Costanzas and Elaine. So his Peterman vote was just the self-preservation opportunity I think. Moreover, he had not contributed to that Peterman wagon before (and prior to Elaine's hard claim it looked like Peterman was going down). Jackie's failure to comment on Peterman otherwise, or contribute to that wagon, to me looks like a mafioso keeping his distance from a mislynch. Had Peterman been his teammate, he had opportunities there to fish for credit with accusations against Peterman or even defend him outright -- something. I think that makes Peterman look a bit better.
Well, forgive me Jerry, if I don't trust your judgment. You were Jackie Chile's bowling partner a few days ago.

Vote J. Peterman

I think your paradigm of what's going on in this whole deal is way off. I think Jackie was the only person on his team really paying attention (unless you're on his team, of course), so I wouldn't put too much effort in trying to figure out their strategy. I think the mafia just are no good at what they do. Like men.
Would this imply Peterman and Leo then? Who else doesn't know what they're doing?
I think that's reasonable, or Peterman and Whatley. I think Whatley falls into that category too. He was just around last minute, but hadn't been much around before.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#928

Post by Celeste »

I planned to reveal earlier if needed but work got in the way.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#929

Post by Nicol Bolas »

Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:30 pm K I'm cop, Leo's a Mafioso. I haven't used my 2nd check. This is why Elaine s claim game spooked me.
I see.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#930

Post by Spooky Ghost »

......the fudge
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#931

Post by Julinook »

Whatley, what about Steinbrenner man. What about him.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#932

Post by Nicol Bolas »

If Whatley is the cop, "Big Stein" and "Uncle Leo" are in for a beautiful surprise vacation together.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#933

Post by Spooky Ghost »

There can't be 2 cops
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#934

Post by Julinook »

Elaine Benes wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:32 pm If Whatley is the cop, "Big Stein" and "Uncle Leo" are in for a beautiful surprise vacation together.
I mean, yeah. That'd be ballgame. Wouldn't that be spicy. :haha:
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#935

Post by Nicol Bolas »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:32 pm There can't be 2 cops
You are so bald.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#936

Post by Celeste »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:31 pm Whatley, what about Steinbrenner man. What about him.
I thought he was covering 4 me
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#937

Post by Tangrowth »

Day 4 Vote Tally

Elaine Benes
0
No votes
Voters: None

Frank Costanza
1
10%
Voters: George Costanza

George Costanza
0
No votes
Voters: None

George Steinbrenner
0
No votes
Voters: None

J Peterman
1
10%
Voters: Elaine Benes

Jerry Seinfeld
0
No votes
Voters: None

Tim Whatley
5
50%
Voters: Uncle Leo, Frank Costanza, George Steinbrenner, Jerry Seinfeld, J Peterman

Uncle Leo
1
10%
Voters: Tim Whatley

*UNVOTE*
0
No votes
Voters: None

*NO LYNCH*
0
No votes
Voters: None

Larry Thomas (host, deadies, non-players)
2
20%
Voters: NewTraditionalist, MovingPictures07

Missing votes: N/A
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#938

Post by Principal Skinner »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:32 pm
Elaine Benes wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:32 pm If Whatley is the cop, "Big Stein" and "Uncle Leo" are in for a beautiful surprise vacation together.
I mean, yeah. That'd be ballgame. Wouldn't that be spicy. :haha:
Not happening

Pathetic last ditch attempt by Whatley...

Nice try Whatley, for the second time today.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#939

Post by Nicol Bolas »

Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:33 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:31 pm Whatley, what about Steinbrenner man. What about him.
I thought he was covering 4 me
He checked the Godfather. Think about it.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#940

Post by Celeste »

Well, you know what to do post flip. Gl!
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#941

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Elaine Benes wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:33 pm
George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:32 pm There can't be 2 cops
You are so bald.
Lmao
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#942

Post by Tangrowth »

Day 4



Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley pissed off the wrong people. Now he's dead.



Tim Whatley has been lynched.

He was DrWilgy [and replaced Kenny Bania, who was Dom] and...
Spoiler: show
Vanilla Mafiaoso

It is now Night 4.

You have 24 hours to send in night actions.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#943

Post by Paul Stevens »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Is there anyone for whom you cannot see the argument for their being bad? Disregard Elaine, Steinbrenner, and I.
Other than me? I think Peterman is having fun roleplaying and isn't worried enough to be mafia. Anyone else is fair game, particularly Leo for that self-vote nonsense.

Linki: WTH?
Linki: And my gut was wrong! Hooray for listening to people!
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#944

Post by Julinook »

lol

Thanks for making it a funny exit, Whalgy. Frank is no longer ID'd.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#945

Post by November »

Lynch frank tomorrow
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#946

Post by Nicol Bolas »

That...

works...

too?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#947

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Whoa! Well done!
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#948

Post by Principal Skinner »

Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:35 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Is there anyone for whom you cannot see the argument for their being bad? Disregard Elaine, Steinbrenner, and I.
Other than me? I think Peterman is having fun roleplaying and isn't worried enough to be mafia. Anyone else is fair game, particularly Leo for that self-vote nonsense.

Linki: WTH?
Linki: And my gut was wrong! Hooray for listening to people!
My (very wrong, won't be repeated) self-vote nonsense helped get votes off me and onto a mafioso.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#949

Post by DrWilgy »

JK :goofp: gg all
nutella wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:56 pm Image
@DrWilgy don't post any more k
Spoiler: show
Image Image Image
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#950

Post by Julinook »

Well I gotta run. Date night with Jane.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#951

Post by Nicol Bolas »

I think Chiles and Whatley were trying to hide Peterson's Godfatherly role, but were mistakenly hoping Peterson would show up to change his vote.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#952

Post by November »

Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:35 pm Alright, I'm back, SERENITY NOW'ed, and ready to vote for George now that Jerry has also seen the light. Will look at Whately just to be fair.

He looks to me like a civilian being thrown into the game and wanting to engage with the main posters, make sure they didn't escape suspicion. That both of those main posters have turned out to look eminently civ is just the way the game unfolded.
Joining in Day 2 I was very much fixated on Elaine and Jerry. So much so that I've decided to take a step back and review other leads and questions I have.
The thing that looks worst to me is this.
Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen
That's after previously defending the vote with this:
Interesting. What should I say over his 7 posts that hasn't been said already?
That strikes me as a lack of transparency, which isn't a great look at this point in the game, when we're all really scrambling to solve and avoid LYLO. My gut says it's good for him to come clean rather than fabricate a reason, but I realize that's open to interpretation.

In summary, I still think George is a stronger suspect based on what he's said about Estelle and Jackie.
This post stinks. Frank is tiptoeing up to the line and just barely casting a little bit of suspicion on Whatley before turning around and running back to his safe and comfortable George vote.

I do not like Frank's game-long tunneling of George, but I have to ask myself whether I think it's something that a scum player would do. He's been calling for George's lynch since Day 1, but has not yet provided any really substantial case for why it should happen. That almost seems too bold to be a scum strategy.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#953

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 pm The fact Peterman isn't even aware of the civ read on Frank is as interesting as Whatley not knowing that Steinbrenner is the "cop"
I just had this thought as well and I may now be coming into agreement with Elaine. Between the two of them, Peterman and Whatley did not seem to have a complete grasp on the role shenanigans active in the thread right now. Peterman was unclear on what was meant by "Frank's civilian ID":
Spoiler: show
J Peterman wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:54 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:49 pm Thanks, Peterman. Now, tell me, having made your best effort to figure out my nonsense charts and the like, was there anything in my analyses you didn't agree with? I see the one comment you made there in your reads post. What else? Does Frank's civilian ID mean anything to you?
I assume you mean civilian ID for Whatley? Depends on his flip, I suppose. But he doesn't seem terribly sure about the ID, considering his last comment/quote from Whatley about not being sure. So of course it means something to me, but I have yet to see exactly what.
And Whatley did not seem to be aware that I had even claimed cop:
Spoiler: show
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:39 pm
George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:36 pm Would be hilarious if Jerry is scum though. I mean really, hats off to you. While no one is questioning Elaine and Steinbrenner, you're not even a confirmed PR and no one's questioning your alliance.
I have a reason to think that Elaine and Jerry are civ. Steinbrenner however I'm not 100% on, I recall liking his thought processes and questions during day 3.
If we are still wondering why The Soup Nazi was killed last night, a plausible theory is that the scum team was simply asleep at the wheel and missed some critical information in the thread. We can at least observe this being true in Whatley's case right here, though to assess the impact of this on the team's decision making would be irresponsible at this time. But we do at least have an indication that 1/2 of the remaining scum team was apparently unaware of one of the roleclaims in the thread. Peterman's behavior indicates that he too was unaware of at least a part of my claim.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#954

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:05 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:01 pm
George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 pm The fact Peterman isn't even aware of the civ read on Frank is as interesting as Whatley not knowing that Steinbrenner is the "cop"
It might be interesting. Tell me why you think it's interesting.
Well, mafia team communicates to each other, this sort of information would have been made clear between them I feel, even if they aren't up to speed in the thread THERE IS A 2-SHOT COP - HE ID'D ESTELLE AND FRANK. It brings them both further down my suspect pile.
kramer and frank
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#955

Post by Julinook »

Decide how you feel about Leo and George and the game is solved.

Frank or Peterman.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#956

Post by November »

Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:07 pm I voted Uncle Leo. It's the only vote I feel good about placing right now.
This post makes me feel good about Leo. I don't think mafia where in a position where they wanted to bus each other today. If they're going to push a lynch, they're pushing a mislynch unless a bus can't be avoided. This feels like a desperation heave by the dentist.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#957

Post by November »

Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Is this the kind of thing a teammate would say before contributing to the lynch of their partner?
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#958

Post by November »

My gut right now is leaning toward Peterman, but I could easily change my mind. I'll figure this out later. Good work today, y'all. Mr. Steinbrenner is proud of your efforts.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#959

Post by Chuck »

Elaine Benes wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:18 pm The "mention" feature is awful. Please stop using it.
[mention]Elaine Benes[/mention]
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#960

Post by Julinook »

I'm going to be quite busy today. Audrey's taking me out to her father's restaurant later. I still don't understand why she wouldn't take a bite of my pie. What's the deal?
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#961

Post by Julinook »

But don't hesitate to get that legacy work in, because someone's about to die.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#962

Post by November »

A look at Tim Whatley's treatment of all players still in my POE pool:
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:12 pm Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?
Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.
For context, prior to this post Whatley had focused pretty much exclusively on players that are currently either confirmed town (Soup Nazi, Estelle) or near-confirmed (Elaine, Jerry). The next player he turned his focus on was George with this generic mafia prod. It's not an accusatory prompt, but it does come from out of left field and seems to be an effort to at least establish basis for suspicion (the middle question). I am more inclined to think that a scum player would be more direct in an accusation against a teammate. A bus is usually a deliberate action, but this setup feels very timid from Whatley, like he didn't want to do anything too abrupt to upset George and draw his suspicion. So I'll chalk this up as a positive for George, but I'm open to other interpretations.
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:24 pm I guess I should share where my head is at if I am to ask this of others. Joining in Day 2 I was very much fixated on Elaine and Jerry. So much so that I've decided to take a step back and review other leads and questions I have.

I'm curious about the Soup Nazi and Stein voters from day 1. I'm reviewing them now.

I could currently vote for Costanza or Elaine.

Jerry, I'm unsure what to think. Truth be told, I'm unsure if I'm suspicious of Jerry, or just afraid.
This is more direct evidence of my theory above. Whatley was almost certainly trying to establish a basis for suspecting George in his previous post, and here he's become bold enough to state it out in the open. This does not feel like a bus, and all of his other targets so far are town. He then does an interesting thing by pledging to take a look at the people who voted for the Mr. Steinbrenner and the Soup Nazi. Which brings us too...
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm @Uncle Leo, why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"
Uncle Leo wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 pmpeterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy
Arent you in the same boat?
This is a juicy post. At the center of Whatley's accusation are Uncle Leo and Peterman. The accusation is being spun against Leo, but it can also be read as a soft defense of Peterman. If I am assuming George is town, then to this point Whatley has not wavered from pursuing townies exclusively. I'd be playing with fire if I tried to state definitively whether or not his strategy was to only pursue non-teammates and leave his partners alone in the thread, but he has appeared to be trending this way thus far. It would be a rather sharp turn, after pushing so hard against nothing but townie, to suddenly spin his focus onto a relatively unsuspected teammate in Leo (hypothetically speaking). So, if I am rolling with that logic, I am brought to the other player involved in this triangle, J. Peterman. Whatley is using a line of accusation against Leo here that, by its nature and by his own admission, must also apply against Peterman. Yet he singularly targets Leo in this post, and by virtue of this is also deflecting the criticism away from Peterman.
Granted, if we flip the supposed alignments of Peterman and Leo here then we can say that he chose to pursue Leo with this accusation and not Peterman because he was only interested in distancing. Either way, this post strikes me as being deliberately targeted at Leo but not Peterman for one reason or another. Leo's response will be worth looking at once I'm done here.
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:12 pm Sien, what do you think of Uncle Leo's vote for you? What do you want right now?
He asked for my thoughts on Leo's day 1 vote and then seems to be goading me into something unspecific. I should have been more alarmed at that in the moment. That second question is totally directionless. Word vomit is all it is. But the main point here is the continued push against Leo. He's clearly moved on to that angle, and I'm feeling more and more like Whatley's strategy was to incite confusion and town-on-town violence. I do not think scum players tend to bus indirectly like this. He appears to be trying to plant seeds of suspicion against Leo in my brain rather than making an original accusation here. I'm feeling more good vibes toward Leo.
Tim Whatley wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:24 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:24 am I also keep forgetting Tim Whatley exists. That's not ideal.
Why do you think this is this the case? I feel like I've voiced my thoughts consistently?

I'll be voting Peterman. I don't feel bad about it, but there are a handful I can say that about. Let's see where this goes.

Stein, if time allows, I'll review those you asked about.
:ponder: This post came ~20 hours after his previous post, and towards the end of the phase but not quite in End of Day mode yet (ie, prior to Elaine's big news). If memory serves me correct, Peterman was looking like a highly likely lynch at this point. Whatley's only previous involvement with Peterman was the aforementioned soft deflection via accusation against Leo, but here he casts an unapologetic vote against him (and would later claim this was done for the sake of reactions, but that is the second most bogus claim he made all game). A vote for Peterman at this time would not be critical to his lynch, but it would certainly contribute to it; a textbook bandwagon vote. I am torn here. My investigation up to this point has brought me to suspect that Whatley has been actively working to get a townie lynched. All of his suspicions and accusations suggest as much. So if he's voting for Peterman here, there should be some suggestion that Peterman is just another expendable townie.
On the other hand, for all of Whatley's angling prior to this vote, he never once mentioned Peterman and, if anything, appeared to to defend him despite Peterman being public suspect #1 for most of this time. If Whatley wanted to push us towards lynching a townie, here is his easiest target. Instead he kept his distance until a lynch seemed inevitable, or at least immanently likely. I can assume that this vote was cast under the assumption that Peterman was most probably going to be revealed at the end of this day phase. With that in mind, we need to consider how he would have wanted to appear after Peterman's flip. If Peterman is town, then Whatley is hopping on a mislynch, despite having no prior ties to the bandwagon or any observable reason to want to contribute to it. That's the type of move that draws a lot of attention from townies everywhere. If Peterman is bad, then Whatley has a chance to score some townie points by jumping on a successful scum lynch when there was just enough open space for the vote to have some influence on the final outcome, but not so much that he was integral to the lynch. If Whatley's endgame here was his standing in the thread post-lynch, then this looks like a very possible bus vote. If he's angling to get a townie lynched, then this is a scummy as hell vote. But Peterman didn't get lynched, so we can't know for sure yet. It's also worth noting that if Peterman is scum, he's the godfather and I had not yet made my role public, so protecting the godfather as much as possible would have been a priority for the bad guys. Both Jackie and Whatley made no attempts to pursue Peterman at any time in the thread.
Tim Whatley wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:32 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:55 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:24 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:24 am I also keep forgetting Tim Whatley exists. That's not ideal.
Why do you think this is this the case? I feel like I've voiced my thoughts consistently?

I'll be voting Peterman. I don't feel bad about it, but there are a handful I can say that about. Let's see where this goes.

Stein, if time allows, I'll review those you asked about.
*opens Tim Whatley's post history*

*CTRL+F for "peterman"*

1 mention in entire history, and it's in this post with this vote. Naw.

Voting Tim Whatley.
Interesting. What should I say over his 7 posts that hasn't been said already?

Seinfeld, do you have a fascination with me. Why is this the case?
Denies responsibility for needing to justify his Peterman vote. Yuck. He's comfortable enough to cast a vote, but not enough to discuss reasons for voting. I don't know if this tells me a whole bunch about Peterman, but it's definitely a bad look for Whatley. Not that that matters anymore. I might say I have a slight indication to read this in Peterman's favor. If they are partners, then it shouldn't be too much of a challenge to look into Peterman's 7 posts and pull out something that smells guilty. But I could say that regardless of Peterman's alignment, so null.
George Costanza wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:37 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:12 pm Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?
Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.
Day 1 votes generally aren't really substantial or based on actual specific clues or content. I didn't feel good about the Newman bandwagon. I didn't vote for Newman.

I'm someone who goes by gut instincts a lot, and I felt Uncle Leo was wishy washy in his stances, as long as he didn't draw attention to himself or garner too much opposition and preferred following the bunch; insincere; not as vocal or skeptical as people should be on Day 2.

My opinion on him hasn't changed yet.
I'm noticing a trend of people who just didn't give a damn about their day one vote. How is this acceptable?
Disgusted by George's Day 1 carelessness. This does not look like a teammate interaction to me.
Tim Whatley wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:53 pm Good evening everyone. I'd like to apologize for my absence today. The office was slammed.

Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen.

I probably would've swapped to Leo or Elaine if it weren't for her hard claim.

I will review my suspects tomorrow. Until then, goodnight.
Now that Peterman is not in the line of fire, Whatley pulls back his suspicion and denies that it ever existed in the first place, and then lets us know that Leo is still on his radar.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:25 pm
And my pressure vote on Peterman? Is there anything wrong with that? am I supposed to not hunt and generate information? Also, to go back to the events of my Peterman vote, if I had a reason other than it being a pressure vote, why the hell did I swap to Chiles?
More hard denial that he ever had a reason to suspect Peterman. This is not a good look for the P-man.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:37 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:27 pm Whatley, defending yourself is pointless at this point. Just do that hunting. That hunting is your defense. Who's bad?
Leo, Frank, recent posts makes me want to look at George but I can also see the angle of a frustrated civ taking heat solely based on mafia actions.

George, how do your actions counteract what is being claimed? Can any of your actions hold you accountable or no?
Leo, Frank, and George. This marks the very first time all game that he's mentioned Frank in any capacity, which is certainly worth noting. It's also worth noting that he names every non-inner circle player left in the game except for Peterman. So I really don't know what to make of this post. He is most actively pursuing George here. At this point Whatley was either making one last push to spin a lynch against a townie, or trying to serve us heaps of WIFOM for after his flip. If it's the former (as I'm more inclined to believe, given the volatile nature of yesterday) then George is his strongest "suspect" here, and thus the player who I am most inclined to read favorably in this post. Leo and Frank receive passing mentions and nothing more, but Leo has been a consistent target for Whatley since his entry into this game and I continue to view Leo favorably for it. Frank is a mystery and his placement here was essentially a necessity from Whatley. It could very well be that he made no mention of Frank earlier because they're teammates and he didn't want to accidentally get tangled up in lynching the godfather, or it could be that he simply paid Frank no mind. I don't know.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 pm
J Peterman wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:43 pmTim Whatley - Good Jackie vote last round. My issue at this point is that he keeps saying he voted me and is voting people for reactions, but I haven't seen much of what intel he's actually garnered from these so-called reactions. It makes me think he's just saying that to say something. Have I missed an explanation?
Let's talk about how Elaine's hard claim came shortly after, hindering the time I had to judge. The only person I saw a reaction from was Jerry, but Jerry is... Y'know a troublemaker. Unless you are scum Peterman, his reaction meant little.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 pm
J Peterman wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:43 pmTim Whatley - Good Jackie vote last round. My issue at this point is that he keeps saying he voted me and is voting people for reactions, but I haven't seen much of what intel he's actually garnered from these so-called reactions. It makes me think he's just saying that to say something. Have I missed an explanation?
Let's talk about how Elaine's hard claim came shortly after, hindering the time I had to judge. The only person I saw a reaction from was Jerry, but Jerry is... Y'know a troublemaker. Unless you are scum Peterman, his reaction meant little.
Ah, here's the first true interaction with either Peterman or Frank. Peterman calls him out for the faux-pressure vote (because duh), but that tacked on question at the end gives the accusation a tentative feel. Whatley's response is sharply defensive and he blames his failing tactics on Elaine's supremacy. His concluding sentence is a head-scratcher. "Unless you are scum Peterman, [Jerry's] reaction meant little." He's only hypothetically acknowledging the possibility of Peterman being scum despite a supposed POE list of 4 players which absolutely should include him, after already naming everyone but him as a suspect. It's possible that Whatley was cultivating this arms-length relationship with Peterman to mislead us, but I can also read this as two teammates whose backs are up against the wall trying to interact with each other without either of them incriminating the other too much. It feels stiff. I don't think this looks good for Peterman.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:06 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:52 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:37 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:27 pm Whatley, defending yourself is pointless at this point. Just do that hunting. That hunting is your defense. Who's bad?
Leo, Frank, recent posts makes me want to look at George but I can also see the angle of a frustrated civ taking heat solely based on mafia actions.

George, how do your actions counteract what is being claimed? Can any of your actions hold you accountable or no?
Tell me more about Leo and Frank. I'll give you two options, please address one or both:

1) Why do you suspect Leo and Frank most?

2) Why do you suspect George and Peterman less?
1) Leo's vote day 2 pinged me hard and that ping never went away. Frank because of POE, but I must admit that Peterman and George can be swapped with Frank, but that leads me to...

2) My reads of George are tonal. I just don't read him as mafia, even recent posts I read tonally as civ, but the problem I have is that I know there's some bias. Part of me wants to believe he's civ because I want to be right on that judgment call. The same bias applies to you and Elaine. I don't think we had a tie between two mafia, so I'm excluding Peterman.
Leo is town. Whatley has been weaseling his way toward this suspicion for a long time. It does not feel like a bus attempt. He offers no real comment on either Frank or Peterman, which is a concern. I am growing more and more confident that one of those two is the godfather, but Whatley's entire comment on Frank is "POE" and he dismisses Peterman as a suspect because there's no way town is good enough to have forced a tie between two mafia players yesterday. I like neither of these things, though I suppose I'd be inclined to say that the Peterman comment is the worse look. He's still offering a defense of him, and "Frank is a POE suspect" is a given at this point and also gives him a reason to swing his vote to Frank if the thread dictates it. But I don't get anything strong from this post.

Then he votes for Leo. Leo is town.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:09 pm During day 3, no one seemed to hard oppose a Peterman vote. The only person that jumped at my pressure vote was you, and I don't think you had malice while jumping at it.
More defense of Peterman. During Day 4, Tim Whatley seemed to hard oppose a Peterman vote.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:23 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:35 pm Alright, I'm back, SERENITY NOW'ed, and ready to vote for George now that Jerry has also seen the light. Will look at Whately just to be fair.

He looks to me like a civilian being thrown into the game and wanting to engage with the main posters, make sure they didn't escape suspicion. That both of those main posters have turned out to look eminently civ is just the way the game unfolded.
Joining in Day 2 I was very much fixated on Elaine and Jerry. So much so that I've decided to take a step back and review other leads and questions I have.
The thing that looks worst to me is this.
Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen
That's after previously defending the vote with this:
Interesting. What should I say over his 7 posts that hasn't been said already?
That strikes me as a lack of transparency, which isn't a great look at this point in the game, when we're all really scrambling to solve and avoid LYLO. My gut says it's good for him to come clean rather than fabricate a reason, but I realize that's open to interpretation.

In summary, I still think George is a stronger suspect based on what he's said about Estelle and Jackie.
Regarding this, would you say that this makes sense following my reveal of this being a pressure vote or not? How was my vote supposed to be transparent, when I had no real reason for it other than for observation? I want to know why you are valuing transparency here as it seems to be irrelevant to me.
Finally, Frank and Whatley are interacting. Frank came in late and shared his two cents on the dentist. He gave him a light town read, but then provided basis for suspicion (the Peterman pressure vote, again duh). I don't think this is a great looking post for Frank. The accusation again feels a bit tentative and reserved, but I do like (at least a little) that he provided a town read but then dug up and shared a reason why he might go against that read. Whatley's response appears more defensive here compared to his response to Peterman's very similar accusation earlier in the phase (above). He asks pointed, borderline accusatory questions for Frank, which might suggest a little bit of panic as well as a knee-jerk reaction to push suspicion back against him. I think this response looks more hostile than his response to Peterman. Good look for Frank.
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:38 pm @Uncle Leo If I vote Frank, what will you do?
A pledge to vote for Frank instead of Leo after the Leo self-vote fiasco. I dunno. Empty gesture and WIFOM city. I am inclined to think that Whatley wanted a townie to be lynched Day 4 and was conspiring toward that end. If this is the case, then Peterman looks much, much worse than Frank or anyone else. If, on the other hand, he was trying to put some distance between his teammate and himself, Frank looks worse. I am leaning toward the former, so I am leaning toward Peterman.
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#963

Post by Larry David »

Just to be clear, I misunderstood Jerry's question about Frank, but left the thread last night before I saw my mistake until now. I was well aware of the Frank check, but the question in context was right after Frank had posted an opinion, so I responded as such. Whoopsie.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#964

Post by November »

Frank and Tim
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:35 pm Alright, I'm back, SERENITY NOW'ed, and ready to vote for George now that Jerry has also seen the light. Will look at Whately just to be fair.

He looks to me like a civilian being thrown into the game and wanting to engage with the main posters, make sure they didn't escape suspicion. That both of those main posters have turned out to look eminently civ is just the way the game unfolded.
Joining in Day 2 I was very much fixated on Elaine and Jerry. So much so that I've decided to take a step back and review other leads and questions I have.
The thing that looks worst to me is this.
Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen
That's after previously defending the vote with this:
Interesting. What should I say over his 7 posts that hasn't been said already?
That strikes me as a lack of transparency, which isn't a great look at this point in the game, when we're all really scrambling to solve and avoid LYLO. My gut says it's good for him to come clean rather than fabricate a reason, but I realize that's open to interpretation.

In summary, I still think George is a stronger suspect based on what he's said about Estelle and Jackie.
He's looking at Whatley "just to be fair". Odd choice of words, but alright. I mentioned earlier that I have some reason to look favorably on Frank for this post, but I can also say the opposite. Frank continues to push George as his top suspect as he has all game long.
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:38 pm Frank, I don't understand what's happening in that post. Do you trust Whatley or not?
Ah, I realize my quote placement there wasn't clear. My statements apply to the quotes below them. Which means that, in the balance, I trust Whately.
Confirms that he "trusts" Whatley.
I haven't read through all of his material, but I feel like his effort is genuine. His thought process on Whately is similar to my own ("his two claims of reaction baiting don't really address the underlying thought process of his gameplay"), but he ends up on the other side of the coin based on his own gut judgement. He's correct with his ID of me as civilian, and that's a hard claim.
This section of the same post makes less sense to me. Frank, you say that my thought process aligns with your own regarding whatley, but that we ended up on opposite sides. How is this so? If you agree that his claims do not seem to be supported by his actions and words in the thread, how is it that you come out of that feeling GOOD about him?
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:11 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:23 pm Regarding this, would you say that this makes sense following my reveal of this being a pressure vote or not? How was my vote supposed to be transparent, when I had no real reason for it other than for observation? I want to know why you are valuing transparency here as it seems to be irrelevant to me.
Your vote would have been transparent if you said up front that it was for pressure, rather than for some unspecified reason about Peterman's 7 posts that had been "said already." I'm valuing transparency because mafia have more reasons to lie in this game.
Response to Whatley. This feels like a much more natural response than Peterman's, though it's hard to look too favorably on it when we now know Whatley's role and it could be said that Frank is holding back on him.
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
I don't know how the tally looked at this time, but this looks like a good vote from Frank. Things were very much up in the air all day long, and this looks like a relatively committed move from Frank. If he's bad he'd had an opportunity during this day to join more than one town bandwagon. Instead he's planted his flag in his top suspect (George), but then moved over to the victorious camp to help lynch Whatley. And, to follow that up, he gave us this lovely little post afterward:
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:35 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Is there anyone for whom you cannot see the argument for their being bad? Disregard Elaine, Steinbrenner, and I.
Other than me? I think Peterman is having fun roleplaying and isn't worried enough to be mafia. Anyone else is fair game, particularly Leo for that self-vote nonsense.
Frank does not see Peterman being scum. If Frank is scum, Peterman is the easiest player to get mislynched tomorrow. This is a boneheaded thing to say if that is the case. It would make no sense.
Lynch Peterman tomorrow.
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#965

Post by November »

J Peterman wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:58 pm Just to be clear, I misunderstood Jerry's question about Frank, but left the thread last night before I saw my mistake until now. I was well aware of the Frank check, but the question in context was right after Frank had posted an opinion, so I responded as such. Whoopsie.
I don't care about this. Tell me who's bad.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#966

Post by November »

J Peterman wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:43 pm Frank - I've agreed with Frank on some occasions. They've been some of the few posts I've actually made! But I agreed on the wrong things, such as his Puddy comment. The vote record isn't great, except that last one getting Jackie. But then again, I suppose I could say that of anyone, considering we've only caught one baddie. Oh, and this little nugget:
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:48 pm (chart cut)

Note though: Frank, Bania, and Whatley have never said a word to or about one another in this game thread. It's not typical mafia behavior, but I am not sure it'd be surprising in this scenario wherein both player slots have generally been populated by low posters.
I have a friend of a friend of a friend in Czechoslovakia (is that what they're calling it these days?) who has pulled this sort of stunt as a baddie on more than one occasion, so it puts the possibility of Frank being bad a little closer.
Hmmmmmmmm? "It puts the possibility of Frank being bad a little closer." What on earth is this? This is a joint accusation against Frank AND Whatley. Jerry's point is that Frank and Whatley TOGETHER could be scum because they've not interacted up to this point. Peterman responds to it by saying that he can foresee this meaning that Frank is scum. Just Frank. Not Whatley. But in order for this theory to even be applicable to Frank, Whatley must also be scum. But Peterman does not mention Whatley. He glosses over him, and moves onto spinning the case against Frank. Is this a simultaneous scum-slip and hand-in-the-cookie-jar catch? Am I seeing this right? Somebody help.
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#967

Post by November »

I voted for Peterman and the poll's not even up yet.
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#968

Post by Julinook »

My face when people wanted to lynch Big Stein on Day 1. Imagine where we'd be now. :phew:
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#969

Post by Julinook »

Steinbrenner's "juicy post" was closely related to another post I called juicy (or spicy?) in my Leo/Whatley team check:
Uncle Leo wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:05 am
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm Uncle Leo why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"
Uncle Leo wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 pmpeterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy
Arent you in the same boat?
Am I in the same boat? No. Why would you think i am? I’m pretty sure you know that I don’t believe I am in the same boat. Did you mean to say “you’re in the same boat.” ?

I believe I explained my vote for Stein earlier in the thread. If not, it’s because it was Day 1 and what did I have to go by? Not much. So his quickness to suspect me aroused suspicion in me.
I read the juiciness here to be the indignant reply offered by Leo to that also juicy assertion by Whatley. I read this in Leo's favor.
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Re: [NIGHT 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#970

Post by Julinook »

Assertion:

Big Stein has observed that neither Jackie nor Whatley paid much attention to Peterman in this thread apart from late votes, and that this might represent protectiveness of the godfather role.

It can also be supposed that Peterman's own low post count is in part driven by the importance of his role (and his hesitance to get into trouble). Mafia power roles can lay low just like civilian power roles.
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