[ENDGAME] Seinfeld Mafia

[Spooky Ghost]

Jackie placed an early Day 1 poop vote on George.

As did a couple of others. I called everyone out on this. You call it a poop vote now, so I'm assuming you too don't believe the narration has anything to do with my actual role. I mean do people honestly think the narrator would intentionally try to incriminate me? How is that balanced for you? He's sure made my life harder, but George Costanza doesn't give up easily. Just ask every woman who's turned me down.

Spoiler: show

Jackie has been quiet.

Just catching up now, Mr Costanza. Sorry for my absence, but in Real Life I was hospitalized with a chest infection last night. I'm home now, and getting right back to business.

Jackie was gracious in his reception of George's little prod here. This exchange is a bit of a pinger.

I don't know what the word "pinger" means, especially in this context. So I'll refrain from comment until you clarify please.

Color-coded stances analysis

Jackie had a lot more to say about George than the other three people he stuck in this pile. He threw shade for George's history for "vouching", suggesting it may be indicative of TMI. It's plausible that Jackie himself was engaging in TMI here if George is his teammate. Relating to the point made by Frank, the portion about the Estelle kill is a little bizarre. I find myself wondering if this was an intentional dropping left by Jackie Con as a distraction, because it's really bad distancing if that's what it really is.*****

Just a thought for you: after Elaine all but sealed his deal confirming she'd tracked him, he went down shouting me as his top suspect.

Do you honestly think that, along with the post above, is actually something a team mate would do? Do I think one of the people he named in that post is a team mate? Sure, it's more than probable. Do I think it's the name he was yelling the loudest aka me; no.

I think you should give Long Con as a player a little more credit than that. That said, no doubt he's laughing in his grave now at how he got the two most vocal posters to vote for me without a hesitation. Well done Jackie. You played it well.

Spoiler: show

No problem, Mr Seinfeld. I used the time I had, and I had to stop. Just got home from the office, and I'm going to get back to it.

George Costanza looks the worst from my analysis so far.

He reinforces that George was the worst look in his analysis.

Again, do we think Jackie is going to be that blatant in bussing a team mate? I don't honestly believe you believe that----deep down.

Spoiler: show

George Costanza, Frank Costanza... Elaine Benes.

His fake legacy mafia reads included both Costanzas and Elaine. If he stuck a teammate in here, it'd have to be a Costanza unless you're inclined to tinfoil on Elaine to the point of needing a restraint jacket. It's not necessarily true that he included a teammate.

Frank. Cos it sure as hell isn't me, all my contributions have either been defending suspicion of myself in my limited time or trying to make gut reads as good as possible.

Let's lynch Frank.

Spoiler: show

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

He felt good about Jackie on Day 1. I don't fault him for that, but here it is for analytic completeness.

Spoiler: show

what is this even.

You know, I did think it was rather farfetched that all four main characters of the show (George, Seinfeld, Elaine and Kramer) would RANDOMLY be picked as town. Kramer was town, I'm town, pretty sure I have good feelings about Jerry...so Elaine, as someone who roleclaimed and wasn't night killed, what's your deal?

Sure Estelle is dead. Yes, I felt peculiar about her. No, I didn't vote for her at any time. Suspicion arises. Everyone is suspicious at some point.

Jackie was a lot more vocal, and when he was, I had good feelings about him. He disappeared, he missed voting. I questioned it. What's up with that? How is it random? I liked the way Jackie was talking, I didn't like the direction Estelle was headed. I'm allowed to make judgement calls based on how I see them.

The green stuff isn't related to Jackie, but this is a good place talk about this separately. It's obvious that George's assertion is fallacious, and I'd expect any civilian to understand that. He said it anyway. I wonder if he is right, and he knows he is right because of his own alignment.

I have no idea what you're getting at. I am positive of my alignment. I'm as vanilla as Marla, your ex girlfriend. If you can't see that, what can I do to make you believe me? I'll bare it all, god damn it!

The orange stuff relates to Jackie. He explained his initial positive read on Jackie and his later prod about his having gone quiet. This was in response to accusations leveled upon him by Elaine. Apart from the fallacious green stuff, he was in a defensive posture here. I don't know that I like his tone.

Sorry, but with limited weekday time at my disposal, coming into a thread and finding suspicion directed at you, you’re going to want to clear yourself as much as possible to direct scum hunting efforts towards the real threats and try to get as many people believing in your claims. If you had people call you scum for fake role claims, I'm sure you'd react similarly. Don't tell me you've never been the defensive vanilla.

Spoiler: show

Jerry Seinfeld
The Soup Nazi
Jackie Chiles
Uncle Leo
George Costanza
Tim Whatley
Frank Costanza
Elaine Benes
J. Peterman

I'd like to know what Jackie did to earn him a high spot on your list.

I'm not jealous or anything. Why would I be jealous?

George questioned Mr. Steinbrenner about his positive read on Jackie. It's a fair enough question in a vacuum, though I find myself wondering why I wasn't asked the same thing -- I also had Jackie in the green zone.

I'd already asked you several things in my post catch ups, I wasn't going to quote every single post every single person made. I saw Steinbrenner online, I directed a question his way to engage in discussion. No mystery.

[Julinook]

I'm going to move to unvote for the moment. Breathe, George, and keep at it. I can't review that thoroughly at present, but I will soon. Show me the baddies.

[Spooky Ghost]

His only post today was a continuation of is harping on George which has been going on all game long. He mentions some stuff about Estelle and how George might have set her up for the kill by naming her as a top suspect prior to it, but this is such an arbitary and far-fetched accusation that I can't really give it serious consideration without knowing anything about how Frank arrived at his conclusion. It's a possibility, sure, but anything's a possibility. I am unable to do nothing with it.

He also called out Jackie for doing the exact same thing he did, in different words. That's what I didn't like.

[Julinook]

One point I want to make immediately, because it irks me, is this:

George Costanza, I never said at any juncture that the host revealed or hinted at you being a mafioso in the game introduction. Of course that didn't happen. I said you called two votes upon you "throw-away" votes, one of which was my vote, and I didn't say anything about the host's content. It wasn't a fair representation of my own vote for you.

[Spooky Ghost]

Ok Jerry, so why had you already voted for me on Day 1 before I had even posted itt?

[Julinook]

Ok Jerry, so why had you already voted for me on Day 1 before I had even posted itt?

You have the most role play-friendly role in the game and you were taking entirely too long to get started (so I supposed you might be hesitating due to alignment nerves). So I threw poop at you. Was it substantive or damning stuff? Naw. Was it a real accusation? Sure.

[November]

George is playing with heavy WIFOM in that big defense post. It's entirely possible that Jackie incriminated one of his teammates with his dying breath. It's entirely possible he incriminated an innocent townie. Either way, he did it so that we would be left scratching our heads at it. That George is relying on it for the basis of his self-defense is not promising.

[November]

As a low-ranking member of the Yankees' social media outreach team, I have no idea what any of you mean when you talk about roleplay.

[November]

George Costanza

It was my understanding that George Costanza poisoned his fiancée with envelope glue. Despicable, degenerate, deplorable! He'll get my vote.

Oh come on! Be sensible.

and since when did we ever trust an attorney

George entered with a handful of fluff posts. This is the first one to catch my attention. I could see it being two baddie teammates poking fun at each other in the beginning of the game. Casual distancing, possibly.

...and they're spectacular tier:
Uncle Leo
Jackie Chiles

This feels like the good side of role play tier:
George Steinbrenner
The Soup Nazi

The yada-yada tier:
J Peterman
George Costanza
Kramer
Kenny Bania

What's up with _____ tier:
Estelle Costanza
Frank Costanza
Elaine Benes
David Puddy

Don't insult me, my friend.

You were after all the deciding vote in Newman's fate, were you not?

Costanza's first move of the game is to throw Jerry's suspicion back in his face because Jerry cast a vote for Newman on Day 1. Uninspiring, but better than nothing. He at least seems interested in making things happen.

Of the people with more than one vote, I could lynch Newman or Soup Nazi. Not lynching Big Stein.

How about Puddy though? What is it with this guy?

Why Newman? You could have swung with Soup Nazi and left it to fate.

What's the obsession with Puddy? What are you trying to say about him?

"Why take initiative when you could absolve yourself of responsibility?" A very Costanzian notion, but not conducive to good mafia play.
His language regarding the Puddy suspicion is a bit aggressive here as well. "Obsession" and "trying to say" tell me that George is trying to suggest some sinister intentions from Jerry. Or he could just be seeking more elaboration. Either way, I feel like pointing out an apparent shift in his position just two posts later:

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

In the above post George is hinting at tension with Jerry, but here he puts him on his "good" list. 3/4 of his bad list are now confirmed or near-confirmed town, with the possibility of a fourth if Frank is not the godfather. The revealed scum is listed as good.

Also kinda shocked Jerry not NKed N1 when he's probably the SPK -- I have no idea who Kramer is even.

K bai

I find these kind of posts really suspicious. "Oh why are you still alive, unless you're mafiascum, they should have definitely killed you because you're outspoken but they didn't so...connect the dots"

It really doesn't sit well with me. And to come from my mother of all people....

I may be a Costanza idiot, but I definitely inherited that from my dad.

Here's Frank's favorite post in the game. I don't object to the prod of his mother here, though I'm very paradoxically wary of posts that claim to be "suspicious of x type of post" because it can be used as a way for the player to plan suspicion without necessarily having to engage in direct analysis of a player's motives. They can just say "This resembles something scum might do, so I'm gonna pin a suspicion on it" and call it a day. I'm not thrilled at the way George employed it here.

I'll be here all day if I finish this ISO right now. I don't want to do that. George is presently here, so I'm going to post what I have and hope to engage him more directly. Hi George.

[November]

[mention]George Costanza[/mention], why are you voting for No Lynch?

[Spooky Ghost]

His language regarding the Puddy suspicion is a bit aggressive here as well. "Obsession" and "trying to say" tell me that George is trying to suggest some sinister intentions from Jerry. Or he could just be seeking more elaboration. Either way, I feel like pointing out an apparent shift in his position just two posts later:

I would like to clarify that I was not being aggressive here and my "What's the obsession with Puddy?" question wasn't directed to Jerry specifically, but several people in the thread were talking about him and he generally didn't catch my eye so I wanted to know what people were implying or trying to imply.

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

In the above post George is hinting at tension with Jerry, but here he puts him on his "good" list. 3/4 of his bad list are now confirmed or near-confirmed town, with the possibility of a fourth if Frank is not the godfather. The revealed scum is listed as good.

Yeah, but this list was right after Night 1. I changed my stance on Elaine and The Soup Nazi and brought Uncle Leo into my suspect pool.

My Day 1 vote was not a heavily built up case; I was going by role play and did not feel Newman's outcries were insincere so I couldn't jump on the bandwagon, even though it would probably have made me seem less suspicious in some ways.

I still stand by my intuition that Uncle Leo isn't open, and his contributions have been very wary/safe, avoiding real opposition or conflict.

[Spooky Ghost]

@George Costanza, why are you voting for No Lynch?

I wanted to see how the votes were split. I will not be voting No Lynch. I will most likely be voting for Uncle Leo. I want to stop defending myself and concentrate on lower post count people who I haven't really looked into or analyzed yet.

[November]

Another angle which can be immensely helpful for Day 4 that we really ought to work with: living-teammate analysis. We have a relatively small suspect pool, and two names to isolate.

We already have an idea who we trust. If we can manage a suspect pool of four or five, then we can check every single possible two-man team within that pool to see whether there's reason to cut them out as potential teammates. That allows us to further reduce the possible game scenarios to as few as we can, and that often ends up revealing one of them anyway (i.e. if one player is included in all theorized teams, that player is mafia).

I can't do this now, but I will attempt it later. I could use some help.

This is the pool I intend to work with, including the 5 suspects I deem worthy of investigation and all possible combinations therein (not including repeats):

This would be a very worthwhile exercise that I will look into when I've recovered some energy.

[November]

My Day 1 vote was not a heavily built up case; I was going by role play and did not feel Newman's outcries were insincere so I couldn't jump on the bandwagon, even though it would probably have made me seem less suspicious in some ways.

why are you concerned with appearing unsuspicious?

[November]

@George Costanza, why are you voting for No Lynch?

I wanted to see how the votes were split. I will not be voting No Lynch. I will most likely be voting for Uncle Leo. I want to stop defending myself and concentrate on lower post count people who I haven't really looked into or analyzed yet.

I encourage this analysis and look forward to it. But I also have questions for you because I feel like Mr. Steinbrenner left you alone for much of the game and so my notes on you are lacking. Don't let me stop you from getting things done though.

[Spooky Ghost]

My Day 1 vote was not a heavily built up case; I was going by role play and did not feel Newman's outcries were insincere so I couldn't jump on the bandwagon, even though it would probably have made me seem less suspicious in some ways.

why are you concerned with appearing unsuspicious?

Hey now, don't go nitpicking my words. I'm just saying I could play the game easier, I could be more agreeable, I could be less vocal, I could bandwagon, but I don't feel I've done any of that. I'm sitting here going through Kenny Bania and Peterman's contributions because I actually care.

[November]

Nitpicking words is what Mr. Steinbrenner pays me to do.

[Spooky Ghost]

And I got nothing to hide, so throw all the work you got my way, I'll give you answers. I'll give you solutions.

[Spooky Ghost]

Kenny Bania's three contributions strike me as overwhelmed vanilla townie, the role play in the beginning of the game was a tad excessive and made it impossible to read since everyone literally seemed like a jerk.

[November]

And I got nothing to hide, so throw all the work you got my way, I'll give you answers. I'll give you solutions.

I am most interested in hearing your thoughts on those other folks right now. Keep doing that.

[Spooky Ghost]

Tim Whatley posts seem really agreeable to me. He doesn't have all that many posts, but the questions he asked and points he made are all generally town-thinking (many things I thought myself, even questioning Elaine when she was acting all eccentric). He's balanced, calm and not impulsive, and contributed as well as anyone would for someone joining on Day 2 after all that heavy role play. I don't contribute his posts with mafia-reads. The only post that stuck out for me slightly was this:

I also keep forgetting Tim Whatley exists. That's not ideal.

Why do you think this is this the case? I feel like I've voiced my thoughts consistently?

I'll be voting Peterman. I don't feel bad about it, but there are a handful I can say that about. Let's see where this goes.

Stein, if time allows, I'll review those you asked about.

*opens Tim Whatley's post history*

*CTRL+F for "peterman"*

1 mention in entire history, and it's in this post with this vote. Naw.

Voting Tim Whatley.

Interesting. What should I say over his 7 posts that hasn't been said already?

Seinfeld, do you have a fascination with me. Why is this the case?

I wanted to know more about why he voted for Peterman, especially since he mentioned there's a handful he could say. What was it about Peterman that triggered the vote against him? Something specific? A bunch of things? Tell me.

[Spooky Ghost]

Probably an unpopular choice for today, but if we were going to gleam anything from Jackie's scumspect list there (me, Frank and Elaine) -- there's at least a 25% chance that Frank Costanza is the one scum he did name (and the Godfather) if he did name any. And I do think he would name one. Naming 3 townies would mean he's thrown the scumspect pool a lot smaller for the last 2. I already had bad feelings about my dad (I've mentioned specific things here and there but will try to make a specific and full case later tonight or tomorrow morning). The only reason I didn't vote for Uncle Leo right now is because he hasn't shown up in 2 days. Soup Nazi was killed yesterday night. I feel like Scum Leo would have been slightly more interested in seeing what's going on and give his 5 cents at this stage of the game. Not eliminating his scumminess, but going with the person I think is more likely at this stage.

[November]

You raise an interesting point about the night kill, George. Someone had to have been here to submit it. However, the target of the kill might suggest that it was done by someone (or a pair of someones) who aren't paying close attention. Off the top of my head, Peterman and Uncle Leo best fit that bill.

I also tend to think it's more likely than not that a scum player will mention at least one teammate in their list of suspects.

[Paul Stevens]

People, I'm freaking out about RL work stuff right now. Contributions are not happening tonight.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with George and Frank Costanza?



George's comments

Spoiler: show

Now that I've gained a little bit of perspective back, I realize the Soup Nazi's been knocked down a few rungs on the suspect list, especially by Jerry and Uncle Leo.

Of those remaining, I hate to say it, but my gut says my son. It's just the kind of sick, twisted thing he'd do after putting her on his baddie list, especially after providing no reason. She was a suspect he couldn't defend if he got asked, so he knocked her off to avoid being asked about her. And he was even the last one seen at her bedside!

For the first part, I'd like to know why Jerry feels good about the Soup Nazi now.

For the second part, that's untrue. I explained I found her post regarding Jerry not being killed N1 because he's outspoken makes him suspicious actually made her seem suspicious. I didn't need to defend it.......since I explained it. Someone's not paying much attention to his son.

As for going with narrative to accuse me... *yawn*
How many games have you been in with the narrator telling you who's scum...? Yeah.

George responds to some prodding from Frank on Day 3. This was the first time George acknowledged his father in this game as far as I can see. The middle portion is of some interest, as George contested the truth of his father's assessment of him but didn't seem to find it concerning in the realm of becoming suspicious.

OMGUS accusation thrown back at Frank

Suspicion is implied here, but not stated. Ehh.

Spoiler: show

Frank. Cos it sure as hell isn't me, all my contributions have either been defending suspicion of myself in my limited time or trying to make gut reads as good as possible.

Let's lynch Frank.

This was in response to my musing over the possibility that Jackie left a teammate in his parting suspects list (featuring George, Frank, and Elaine). I'm struck by George's willingness to adopt this notion despite the real possibility that [theoretically from the perspective of civilian George] there may not have been any teammates in that little list of three. There's only one possibility in that mind frame if any and we're straight to "let's lynch Frank". It feels overeager.

Continuation of his Day 4 suspicion of Frank

Spoiler: show

Probably an unpopular choice for today, but if we were going to gleam anything from Jackie's scumspect list there (me, Frank and Elaine) -- there's at least a 25% chance that Frank Costanza is the one scum he did name (and the Godfather) if he did name any. And I do think he would name one. Naming 3 townies would mean he's thrown the scumspect pool a lot smaller for the last 2. I already had bad feelings about my dad (I've mentioned specific things here and there but will try to make a specific and full case later tonight or tomorrow morning). The only reason I didn't vote for Uncle Leo right now is because he hasn't shown up in 2 days. Soup Nazi was killed yesterday night. I feel like Scum Leo would have been slightly more interested in seeing what's going on and give his 5 cents at this stage of the game. Not eliminating his scumminess, but going with the person I think is more likely at this stage.

He expands some here on his willingness to assume Jackie left a teammate in that list. I don't follow the math that I just highlighted, George please tell me what that means.

=========================

Frank's comments

Spoiler: show

Hi, I'm George. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents.

As if we needed any more proof you're a good-for-nothing bum! Didn't bother showing up at all to the Mafia for the first day of it.

George, I'm disappointed you. Why don't you stop crying and fight your father face to face, like aman? Listing Kramer as good on Night 1, then knocking him out, would be an excellent way to establish some civilian cred. Especially when you're also buddying up to that goody-two-shoes Jerry Seinfeld.

Frank has never been kind to George in this game, and to me it has often looked cooked. I even suggested earlier in the game that it looks like forced distancing. The highlighted portion is about to become a little trend:

Spoiler: show

ESTELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!?!?!?!?!?!?

No! It can't be! My wife is dead because of you animals! She would drive me up a wall, but she was being quiet around you people, and now someone thought it was worth shutting her up even more.

Only people she mentioned before she passed that might get up to such a thing were Jerry, David Puddy (who I agreed with), the lawyer, and George. She even put in a good word for the Soup Man! The Soup Nazi, who people think is as bad as the actual Nazis!

SERENITY NOW!

I gotta take a breather. Right now, my gut says there's something in looking at those mentions, but I don't know what yet.

Refer again to the highlighted portion. These last two examples show Frank using convoluted, far-fetched reasoning to pin both of the first night kills on George (among a few others in the latter case). I have my doubts that a civilian thinks about the game this way, and it may also be significant that he focused on his son both times.

Spoiler: show

My son hasn't said a thing today. Maybe he needs to get wrestled?! *votes George Costanza*

And as far as I can tell, George still hasn't given a good reason for that baddie listing. Too buys moving on to the next victim, probably.

His George-centric suspicion continues through Day 3.

Frank immediately goes after George after the Jackie lynch for their interactions

This features by far Frank's most conclusive, substantive accusation against George. The point he makes is at least an interesting one. I'll have to look into it myself.


=========================

Conclusion

I still think these two are compatible teammates, and they're both compatible with Jackie. The suspicion from Frank's side especially may even be suggestive of that relationship.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with Frank Costanza and J Peterman?



Frank's comments

Spoiler: show

If Elaine is telling the truth, we have a cut and dried case. If she's not, we at least get more intelligence from a Jackie flip than a Peterman flip. *votes Jackie*

Frank chose Jackie over Peterman. I think this was an easy decision regardless of either Frank's or Peterman's alignments in this scenario.

======================

Peterman agreed with Frank's mud on Puddy

I felt at the time that this was cozy piggy-backing by Peterman (on Frank's suspicion) to justify his participation in the crappy Puddy wagon. That's still plausible, though I am less confident that this is the behavior of mafia teammates. They'd have wagoned Puddy right in our faces in that case, which is pretty brazen behavior for two people who have so few posts (meaning their general play has not been brazen).

======================

Conclusion

The one meaningful point I had to make has me feeling a non-teammate relationship here. It's hard to make a conclusive statement without more content, but that's life when there are so few posts.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with Frank Costanza, Kenny Bania, and Tim Whatley?



Frank's comments

Nothing.

=====================

Bania's comments

Nothing.

=====================

Whatley's comments

Nothing.

=====================

Conclusion

Uh. I didn't expect that. I don't think it's typical of mafia teammates to completely ignore each other through Day 4. I don't think I can justify eliminating the possibility either. It's compatible, but not indicative.

[Principal Skinner]

Voting Uncle Leo.

This is a bad idea if you have intentions of winning this game as a civilian.

I was out of town over the weekend and have had a really busy day today. My posts may be crap but I believe most who have read them agree that I am sincere, if nothing else.

Contributions from me should be expected late tonight.

Don't mis-lynch Uncle Leo because he is old and senile and lost.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with Frank Costanza and Uncle Leo?



Frank's comments

The only comment is tangential.

==================

Leo's comments

Spoiler: show

I was very legitimately unable to be present until right this moment. If I had been back before now, I would have changed my vote. That means absolutely nothing though, so you all can ignore it.

I would like to proclaim, again, that I am 100% completely innocent and the perception that I am playing my hand close to my chest is simply due to me NOT being mafia and therefore not having to engage in a verbal circus of misdirection and persuasion.

current working theory:

good:
me, uncle leo
-why? because I am, despite my senior moment with the puddy vote

jerry
-why? Voted for Peterman

steinbrenner
-Why? voted for Peterman after deliberating between Puddy & peterman

frank
-Why? Out of 8 posts, has only (loosely) defended Steinbrenner & Soup Nazi, both of whom voted for Peterman. Vote for puddy is an unexplainable mark against him.

soup nazi
why? voted for peterman


definitely mafia:
peterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy

Tear it apart you animals!

And Jerry, a fall from grace, really? That's rough, haven't I always been a good uncle? Who always told you that you print well?

Frank is a bit of a standout in this read. The other three non-self civilian reads Leo had offered were all justified by votes for Peterman. Frank had voted for Puddy, the wagon we Peterman voters were trying to supplant. This civilian read requires mental gymnastics to work out, and is much more complex than the others here. This would be a rather bizarre teammate connection, but I can't award points for such a convoluted civilian read in this interactive-read context.

==================

Conclusion

I'd call them compatible, but it isn't a connection that moves me much.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with George Costanza and J Peterman?



George's comments

Spoiler: show

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

<snip>
I'll have to look into Peterman a little more now that you shed light on his inconsistencies.
<...>

He was off your initial list - why? Have you looked into Peterman further as you say in this second quoted post? If so, what is your conclusion?

He was off my initial list along with a few others who had left no impression on me at the time of my post. I am reading each person's posts individually now and will have a better read on Peterman and others in a few hours.

George initially pledged to look into Peterman after my airing of grievances. He didn't quite follow up. Leo asked him about it, and he pledged to do it. He didn't quite follow up.

==================

Peterman's comments

Nothing.

==================

Conclusion

George's failure to discuss Peterman doesn't exactly make this look great. I also find myself wondering how hard it would have been to say something about his teammate though given the obvious need to do so. That he never followed through has me playing WIFOM in his favor.

I'll call them compatible, but again it's not moving me.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with George Costanza, Kenny Bania, and Tim Whatley?



George's comments

Spoiler: show

Hey Kenny Bania. What's your story?

Standard prod.

Spoiler: show

Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?

Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.

Day 1 votes generally aren't really substantial or based on actual specific clues or content. I didn't feel good about the Newman bandwagon. I didn't vote for Newman.

I'm someone who goes by gut instincts a lot, and I felt Uncle Leo was wishy washy in his stances, as long as he didn't draw attention to himself or garner too much opposition and preferred following the bunch; insincere; not as vocal or skeptical as people should be on Day 2.

My opinion on him hasn't changed yet.

George answers to a Whatley prod. I have more to say about the prod and will get to it later.

George praises Whatley on Day 4

If nothing else I disagree with the reasoning George provided here. He likes Whatley because he is "balanced, calm, and not impulsive", which to me basically describes a prototypical mafioso.

====================

Bania's comments

Haha just kidding.

Whatley's comments

Spoiler: show

Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?

Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.

Returning to that prod. This pings me a bit. The prod upon George specifically kind of emerges from nothingness and in that regard it looks a bit forced.

Spoiler: show

I'm noticing a trend of people who just didn't give a damn about their day one vote. How is this acceptable?

This was a general comment made in response to a George post about his Day 1 vote being less substantial. Tim's comment is accusatory, but only indirectly (and he didn't address George himself here). I can see this exchange working between teammates.

====================

Conclusion

I think they're compatible teammates and I'd call the interaction suggestive too.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with George Costanza and Uncle Leo?



George's comments

Spoiler: show

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

Feeling good about Leo on N1.

Spoiler: show

<snip>

Leo

Why pick on Seinfeld of all the Newman lynchers. Picks up on Yankees mogul's phony slander of him, but doesn't act omgusy about it. Ludicrous notion of me and evil hex putting up a fight to distract the crowd. Up your dosage, old geezer!

Why Jerry? because he is the one that sealed Newman's fate by changing his vote (assuming no further actions were taken). If anything, that initial comment was more about me working in Jerry's incredible cousin Jeffrey, you know, at the Parks department.

I agree with what you're saying to some extent, especially earlier, like right after the lynch. The fact that Jerry downplayed it too, and made it seem like he didn't have any other options (which he did have), also made me feel weary. However, it's those balls of steel on a day 1 that make me place Jerry on my safe list now. He wouldn't have drawn that much attention to himself, he made a decision that killed Newman, he stuck by it. It was a deciding vote to lynch a townie on Day 1, not something mafia would have done to blend in. There's like a 2% chance he's not who he says he is. For now, he's on my safe list.

Similarly, Elaine is on my safe list for her frustration post and revealing/not revealing her PR.

George responds to Leo's concerns about me with a weird combination of waffling, tinfoiling, and trust (in me).

Spoiler: show

Out of everyone else atm, I'd say Uncle Leo is playing with his cards close to his chest and I really don't like him voting for Puddy alongside two of his suspects but going ahead with it anyway. Reeks to me.

Jerry, why are you trusting Uncle Leo?

On Day 2 George was clearly less impressed with Leo, after initially having read him as a civilian. The change of heart here actually kind of speaks to me, because if they're teammates I don't see a good reason for that to happen. George had already picked a side on Leo and didn't need to reverse it -- I don't believe Leo was really a top-tier lynch prospect at this point.

George answers Leo's question about his Peterman read.

George explains his D2 read on Leo to Whatley.

George reiterates and reinforces his suspicion of Leo on D4. / Pledges likely Leo vote

Ended up voting Frank instead given Leo's recent absence.

This progression makes me feel the same way. George's read on Leo is malleable throughout the game, and in a way that I don't think looks ordinary for mafia teammate distancing.

=================

Leo's comments

Nothing not already covered.

=================

Conclusion

To me this interaction looks unlikely to represent a teammate relationship.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with J Peterman, Kenny Bania, and Tim Whatley?



Peterman's comments

Bania is included in Peterman's player salad.

Another Bania prod

==================

Whatley's comments

Spoiler: show

@Uncle Leo, why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"

peterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy

Arent you in the same boat?

Whatley discredits a suspicion Leo states of Peterman by asserting hypocrisy. Not my favorite thing.

Spoiler: show

I also keep forgetting Tim Whatley exists. That's not ideal.

Why do you think this is this the case? I feel like I've voiced my thoughts consistently?

I'll be voting Peterman. I don't feel bad about it, but there are a handful I can say that about. Let's see where this goes.

Stein, if time allows, I'll review those you asked about.

Despite that, he still voted Peterman despite having made no direct mention of him prior. I think at this point Peterman may have already had a tally lead (it was before Elaine's tracker reveal).

It's possible for this to be mafia-mafia, but my immediate inclination is to think that if there's a mafia here, it's Whatley, and Peterman is his easy vote.

Spoiler: show

It's not LyLo, so all this move gets the mafia team (if Elaine is lying) is a push to LyLo with a confirmed mafia in place. That's not terrible for them, but she'd have no need -- unless Peterman is also mafia.

If it's a claim for teammate save I'd be somewhat shocked, it feels too early for that.

Whatley turned away my hypothetical scenario featuring a mafia Elaine fake-tracking to rescue a mafia Peterman from a lynch. Again, if Whatley is mafia then this looks like TMI that Peterman is a civilian.

==================

Conclusion

It's not rock solid, but my intuitions are telling me these two aren't teamed together.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with J Peterman and Uncle Leo?



Peterman's comments

Leo is included in Peterman's player salad.

====================

Leo's comments

Leo thinks three others are civilians because they voted for Peterman, and he thinks Peterman is "definitely mafia" because he "hadn't said much of anything substantial.

I don't entirely follow Leo's mindset here. This came in the immediate aftermath of the Puddy lynch. I don't know if it was necessary for Leo to yell and scream about his teammate here; it was still the night phase and nobody was about to be lynched. I'll still acknowledge the bizarre degree of confidence Leo must have that Peterman is mafia here for these reads to make sense though.

====================

Conclusion

I think it's technically compatible, but gun to my head I say no.

[Julinook]

What's the deal with Kenny Bania, Tim Whatley, and Uncle Leo?



Whatley's comments

Spoiler: show

@Uncle Leo, why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"

peterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy

Arent you in the same boat?

Same thing I mentioned in the previous assessment. I'm not entirely sure a mafioso poops on his teammates head like this.

He asked me about Leo's vote for me.

It's not much of a thing, but he did specifically seek to have my loud ass talk about Leo.

=================

Leo's comments

Muses about his Jerry tinfoil, qualifying that he is usually wrong when he feels that way, in response to Whatley's entry concerns about me.

Spoiler: show

@Uncle Leo, why did you vote Stein day one? Your vote on Puddy, was that you crying "No you?"

peterman
-why: hasn't said much of anything substantial. voted for Puddy

Arent you in the same boat?

Am I in the same boat? No. Why would you think i am? I’m pretty sure you know that I don’t believe I am in the same boat. Did you mean to say “you’re in the same boat.” ?

I believe I explained my vote for Stein earlier in the thread. If not, it’s because it was Day 1 and what did I have to go by? Not much. So his quickness to suspect me aroused suspicion in me.

This one is kind of tasty. I like the indignance of Leo's response here, particularly in the highlighted portion, with regard to teammate [non-]compatibility. For some reason this thing is really trying to make me tag Leo here and it's pissing me off, so hopefully this long-ass sentence will get that out of my face.

=================

It worked!

Anyway, that last point speaks to me a bit. I don't suppose these two make great teammates.

[Julinook]

Note: suggestive relationships are by default also compatible.

Dynamics:

~ Frank has 1 suggestive relationship and 3 compatible relationships.

~ George has 2 suggestive relationships and 3 compatible relationships.

~ Peterman has 2 compatible relationships.

~ Whatley has 1 suggestive relationship and 2 compatible relationships.

~ Leo has 2 compatible relationships.

[Julinook]

That effort may be enough to change my 3-player POE to this:

Frank Costanza
George Costanza
Tim Whatley

Peterman and Leo don't fit into as many teams, and that's good enough for me to at least match the credit-value of Frank's civilian cop ID.

[Julinook]

I want to ensure everyone is aware and conscious of the importance of two things moving forward:

1) Civilians need to try to vote together as much as possible. Close votes give the mafia potential angles to rescue themselves. We need to make collective decisions and live or die with them. It's not an emergency at 6 vs. 2, but it's still a tight situation.

2) Civilian presence in the thread near or at EOD significantly increases the likelihood of a successful lynch. Full civilian control of end-phase vote mobility is how we work as a team to overrule their cooperative voting power no matter who gets lynched.

[Celeste]

Good evening everyone. I'd like to apologize for my absence today. The office was slammed.

Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen.

I probably would've swapped to Leo or Elaine if it weren't for her hard claim.

I will review my suspects tomorrow. Until then, goodnight.

[Nicol Bolas]

I think you should give Long Con as a player a little more credit than that. That said, no doubt he's laughing in his grave now at how he got the two most vocal posters to vote for me without a hesitation. Well done Jackie. You played it well.

Nobody is voting for you because of what Jackie said.

[Nicol Bolas]

Again, do we think Jackie is going to be that blatant in bussing a team mate? I don't honestly believe you believe that----deep down.

When you leave the tracker AND the cop alive, what other options do you have?

[Nicol Bolas]

I'm going to engage in a little dangerous night kill analysis for Soup Nazi. I just stated that his being killed over me is something I've considered, and there is also at least one discernible motive I can conceive of to kill him over the two role claimers -- their reads. If the mafia team decides that none of the three (Elaine, Steinbrenner, and Soup Nazi) is going to be lynched, then they have less obvious interest in killing a role claimer given that both are claimed to be expended. Their choice can then be otherwise motivated. I want to see what Soup Nazi's reads looked like in his final day.

Where did I claim to be expended, Jerry?

I am not all out of sponges at all.

[Nicol Bolas]

Catching up. Sorry peeps, RL has kicked me in the ass majorly.

What are these reasons, Jerry?

At the time of those reads:

Elaine - role claim
George Costanza - decent, effortful infusion into the thread soon before those reads
Steinbrenner - consistently relevant contributions under the role play, handles questions gracefully
Jackie - strong start to the game, tonally agreeable
Soup Nazi - Indignant and irritable, particularly in my direction, in a way that seemed civilian
Leo - A few incidents where I felt he exhibited genuine hunting effort

I want to take a peek myself to see if I can find the nipple in somebody's soul.

I'll start with George.

I get slightly negative vibes from George:

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

I'm good and STELLA! is dead.

This last post though:

Jackie has been quiet.

This is such a...I don't know...random thing to say about someone he felt good about, but said he felt bad about Estelle, who had said even less than Jackie Chiles.

what is this even.

You know, I did think it was rather farfetched that all four main characters of the show (George, Seinfeld, Elaine and Kramer) would RANDOMLY be picked as town. Kramer was town, I'm town, pretty sure I have good feelings about Jerry...so Elaine, as someone who roleclaimed and wasn't night killed, what's your deal?

Sure Estelle is dead. Yes, I felt peculiar about her. No, I didn't vote for her at any time. Suspicion arises. Everyone is suspicious at some point.

Jackie was a lot more vocal, and when he was, I had good feelings about him. He disappeared, he missed voting. I questioned it. What's up with that? How is it random? I liked the way Jackie was talking, I didn't like the direction Estelle was headed. I'm allowed to make judgement calls based on how I see them.

This post stinks worse than Kramer's laundry. Bear in mind that I knew Jackie was bad news when I posted this, so my interest in George calling Jackie quiet was piqued.

If the roles are randomly assigned, why would it be farfetched that we're all good guys?

By the logic George presented, he has to be bad!

But this kind of thinking has me thinking he isn't. Even I- confession!- have fallen victim to the erroneous thought that somebody in the main of the theme has to be bad, and I know better!

And nobody was calling Jackie bad.

Unvote.

[Julinook]

I'm glad to see some work was done overnight. I had a terrible night. My girlfriend Jodi is a masseuse, and she refuses to give me a massage. What's the deal with that? What's the point then?

[November]

Frank hasn't commented on me IDing him at all. Frank hascn't commented on a lot of things and it makes him difficult to read. I am leaning toward voting for him today. I am unlikely to be here for the EOD.

[November]

I think Big Stein's analysis of the lawyer has a lot of merit. And not just because he's black. I mean, not because he's black at all! But one thing you missed, Steinbrenner: he did mention Estelle before challenging Jerry.

On another not, rereading Estelle's three posts, I find it satisfying to read them in her roleplaying voice. It works despite her admission that she doesn't know how.

Not sure what to make of that, other than that he's mentioning her to mention her.

I'd also love to here a follow up to this post. I've asked a few times now what parts of my Jackie ISO had merit, and the bottom comment about Jackie/Estelle seems like something he arbitrarily tacked on. I see a relatively good amount of potential for soft distancing between Jackie and Frank in their respective posts.

[November]

here, hear. whatever.

[November]

ASSMAN! I'LL GIVE HIM ASSMAN!

*votes Kramer*

Now where did this vote come from? You criticize George, Elaine, Estelle... but then vote Kramer with no real explanation! Not to mention that this is a follower vote on someone I'm feeling pretty good about. Highly questionable behavior.

On another not, rereading Estelle's three posts, I find it satisfying to read them in her roleplaying voice. It works despite her admission that she doesn't know how.

Change vote: Frank

This was the only vote for Frank on Day 1, and it came late in the phase. Uncle Leo accused Elaine and The Soup Nazi of casting meaningless votes on each other for distancing purposes on Day 1. I can level the same accusation against Jackie here.
Frank makes no mention of Jackie until my ISO and Elaine's claim at the end of Day 3, at which point he becomes a cheerleader on the bandwagon.

[November]

Jackie consistently named Frank as a suspect without ever actually applying pressure to him.

[Julinook]

It's a vote I could support. Lynching a civilian who has been ID'd civilian with a godfather still alive would be a gut punch, but that's only relevant if he's a civilian. I think he looks bad.