[ENDGAME] Seinfeld Mafia

[Spooky Ghost]

The fact Peterman isn't even aware of the civ read on Frank is as interesting as Whatley not knowing that Steinbrenner is the "cop"

It might be interesting. Tell me why you think it's interesting.

Well, mafia team communicates to each other, this sort of information would have been made clear between them I feel, even if they aren't up to speed in the thread THERE IS A 2-SHOT COP - HE ID'D ESTELLE AND FRANK. It brings them both further down my suspect pile.

[Celeste]

Whatley, defending yourself is pointless at this point. Just do that hunting. That hunting is your defense. Who's bad?

Leo, Frank, recent posts makes me want to look at George but I can also see the angle of a frustrated civ taking heat solely based on mafia actions.

George, how do your actions counteract what is being claimed? Can any of your actions hold you accountable or no?

Tell me more about Leo and Frank. I'll give you two options, please address one or both:

1) Why do you suspect Leo and Frank most?

2) Why do you suspect George and Peterman less?

1) Leo's vote day 2 pinged me hard and that ping never went away. Frank because of POE, but I must admit that Peterman and George can be swapped with Frank, but that leads me to...

2) My reads of George are tonal. I just don't read him as mafia, even recent posts I read tonally as civ, but the problem I have is that I know there's some bias. Part of me wants to believe he's civ because I want to be right on that judgment call. The same bias applies to you and Elaine. I don't think we had a tie between two mafia, so I'm excluding Peterman.

[Julinook]

The fact Peterman isn't even aware of the civ read on Frank is as interesting as Whatley not knowing that Steinbrenner is the "cop"

It might be interesting. Tell me why you think it's interesting.

Well, mafia team communicates to each other, this sort of information would have been made clear between them I feel, even if they aren't up to speed in the thread THERE IS A 2-SHOT COP - HE ID'D ESTELLE AND FRANK. It brings them both further down my suspect pile.

I considered it a potentially incriminating given that neither power role was killed -- potentially the result of mafia members being behind on the thread and literally not knowing what's going on (Peterman and Leo come to mind, which I dubbed a viable pairing).

[Celeste]

I voted Uncle Leo. It's the only vote I feel good about placing right now.

[Julinook]

I don't think we had a tie between two mafia, so I'm excluding Peterman.

What leads you to this conclusion?

[Julinook]

Pee break. I'm glad we're all here, folks. Keep the dialogue moving as long as possible.

[Celeste]

During day 3, no one seemed to hard oppose a Peterman vote. The only person that jumped at my pressure vote was you, and I don't think you had malice while jumping at it.

[Spooky Ghost]

The fact Peterman isn't even aware of the civ read on Frank is as interesting as Whatley not knowing that Steinbrenner is the "cop"

It might be interesting. Tell me why you think it's interesting.

Well, mafia team communicates to each other, this sort of information would have been made clear between them I feel, even if they aren't up to speed in the thread THERE IS A 2-SHOT COP - HE ID'D ESTELLE AND FRANK. It brings them both further down my suspect pile.

I considered it a potentially incriminating given that neither power role was killed -- potentially the result of mafia members being behind on the thread and literally not knowing what's going on (Peterman and Leo come to mind, which I dubbed a viable pairing).

I didnt consider that angle. Good point. Let me think it over some.

[Spooky Ghost]

I voted Uncle Leo. It's the only vote I feel good about placing right now.

If no one is going to go with Frank, I'll vote for Leo too as he's my second suspect.

[Spooky Ghost]

Whatley voting for Leo and not voting for me (to bring the votes 3 against each of us) also reads townie move to me tbh. He had all the reason to build a case and vote for me with Jackie cross references but he chose not to.

[Julinook]

Leo and Steinbrenner might be stuck on their votes. I hope not.

[Celeste]

Whatley voting for Leo and not voting for me (to bring the votes 3 against each of us) also reads townie move to me tbh. He had all the reason to build a case and vote for me with Jackie cross references but he chose not to.

I think either of the two leading wagons results in a civ lynch so w/e

[Julinook]

Moved to Leo.

[Spooky Ghost]

The fact Peterman isn't even aware of the civ read on Frank is as interesting as Whatley not knowing that Steinbrenner is the "cop"

It might be interesting. Tell me why you think it's interesting.

Well, mafia team communicates to each other, this sort of information would have been made clear between them I feel, even if they aren't up to speed in the thread THERE IS A 2-SHOT COP - HE ID'D ESTELLE AND FRANK. It brings them both further down my suspect pile.

I considered it a potentially incriminating given that neither power role was killed -- potentially the result of mafia members being behind on the thread and literally not knowing what's going on (Peterman and Leo come to mind, which I dubbed a viable pairing).

I didnt consider that angle. Good point. Let me think it over some.

It's exceptionally hard to catch scum in a roleplaying game, it's even harder when scum have very low post counts and not much of substance to go through.

What specifically in Peterman don't you like? What's that glaring thing that makes you pause on him?

[Julinook]

Another reminder to all: we have three possible lynches remaining (two if we suck) and two mafia members. That's one mislynch.

So if we have a POE of three suspects which correctly includes both mafia members, we can't lose the game. Leo is an agreeable vote for me because he was in my most recent set of three suspects, alongside Whatley and Frank. However, if Leo is mafia, then I think the likelihood of Peterman being mafia increases congruently.

I'd love to hit that godfather. It'd break the game wide open.

[Julinook]

What specifically in Peterman don't you like? What's that glaring thing that makes you pause on him?

He doesn't have enough content to be subject to the hard analytic suspicion which is possible for higher-content players (like yourself). So any direct suspicion for Peterman is going to be inherently limited to matters of gut and isolated pings (or just his general slow participation rate).

I think Leo makes a better suspect between those two specifically.

[Spooky Ghost]

Peterman not posting much and staying in role makes it really hard for me to gleam into his actual thoughts. I still don't think Mafia wouldn't know there's a cop in the game. So my money is on a Frank/Leo pairing now.

[Julinook]

[mention]Frank Costanza[/mention]
[mention]Elaine Benes[/mention]
[mention]George Steinbrenner[/mention]

Your votes are critical now. I think Leo is the best vote presently. Whatley remains in my 3-player POE, but I do agree with George that his voting behavior in this late phase hasn't been pro-mafia. That's a good thing.

[Celeste]

Alright, I'm back, SERENITY NOW'ed, and ready to vote for George now that Jerry has also seen the light. Will look at Whately just to be fair.

He looks to me like a civilian being thrown into the game and wanting to engage with the main posters, make sure they didn't escape suspicion. That both of those main posters have turned out to look eminently civ is just the way the game unfolded.

Joining in Day 2 I was very much fixated on Elaine and Jerry. So much so that I've decided to take a step back and review other leads and questions I have.

The thing that looks worst to me is this.

Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen

That's after previously defending the vote with this:

Interesting. What should I say over his 7 posts that hasn't been said already?

That strikes me as a lack of transparency, which isn't a great look at this point in the game, when we're all really scrambling to solve and avoid LYLO. My gut says it's good for him to come clean rather than fabricate a reason, but I realize that's open to interpretation.

In summary, I still think George is a stronger suspect based on what he's said about Estelle and Jackie.

Regarding this, would you say that this makes sense following my reveal of this being a pressure vote or not? How was my vote supposed to be transparent, when I had no real reason for it other than for observation? I want to know why you are valuing transparency here as it seems to be irrelevant to me.

[Nicol Bolas]

Oh my God, today was a hell of a day, and only just got worse.

[Nicol Bolas]

I'll play Mafia if I don't have talk.

[Julinook]

Peterman not posting much and staying in role makes it really hard for me to gleam into his actual thoughts. I still don't think Mafia wouldn't know there's a cop in the game. So my money is on a Frank/Leo pairing now.

If I could most succinctly summarize why Peterman might be a civilian:

A mafia member who has been taking heat for nearly the entire game is going to end up with more than 8 posts entering Day 4 by default. Even a lurker making periodic appearances is going to feel the need to respond to that shit, and that alone is going to inflate a post count.

[Julinook]

Oh my God, today was a hell of a day, and only just got worse.

I'm sorry Lanie. What's the deal with days anyway?

Just please be ready to use that critical vote of yours.

[Principal Skinner]

@Uncle Leo, when you return, my most pressing concern about you is your treatment of J. Peterman in this game. You've been a vocal supporter of his bandwagon without actually supplying any of your own input on the player. I'm sure you can understand why this might look bad from my perspective. I want to know what it is that you saw in him, and why you're willing to drop it now? This post in particular does not sit well with me.

I'm here. I will address this.

[Spooky Ghost]

Alright, I'm back, SERENITY NOW'ed, and ready to vote for George now that Jerry has also seen the light. Will look at Whately just to be fair.

He looks to me like a civilian being thrown into the game and wanting to engage with the main posters, make sure they didn't escape suspicion. That both of those main posters have turned out to look eminently civ is just the way the game unfolded.

Joining in Day 2 I was very much fixated on Elaine and Jerry. So much so that I've decided to take a step back and review other leads and questions I have.

The thing that looks worst to me is this.

Regarding my Peterman vote without much reason, truth is there was none other than me wanting to gauge reactions. I figured if Peterman was bad, I should pressure vote and see who scrambles. This didn't happen

That's after previously defending the vote with this:

Interesting. What should I say over his 7 posts that hasn't been said already?

That strikes me as a lack of transparency, which isn't a great look at this point in the game, when we're all really scrambling to solve and avoid LYLO. My gut says it's good for him to come clean rather than fabricate a reason, but I realize that's open to interpretation.

In summary, I still think George is a stronger suspect based on what he's said about Estelle and Jackie.

Regarding this, would you say that this makes sense following my reveal of this being a pressure vote or not? How was my vote supposed to be transparent, when I had no real reason for it other than for observation? I want to know why you are valuing transparency here as it seems to be irrelevant to me.

I want to know what I exclusively said about Estelle and Jackie?

[Julinook]

Nearly the whole gang is here. I can't believe it.

[Principal Skinner]

Moved to Leo.

This is a very VERY bad decision, Jerry.

[Julinook]

Keep talking Leo and I'll keep considering my final decision. The only vote that matters is the last one.

[Celeste]

Moved to Leo.

This is a very VERY bad decision, Jerry.

Why though? Why Jerry in specific?

[Principal Skinner]

Moved to Leo.

Would you like me to vote for myself? I will gladly do that. As a matter of fact, moving my vote to me right now since you all are so sure.

VOTE UNCLE LEO.

[Principal Skinner]

Moved to Leo.

This is a very VERY bad decision, Jerry.

Why though? Why Jerry in specific?

Because I started from the end and am working back and he was the first I saw to say me.

If the majority changes, I will change my vote.

[Spooky Ghost]

Why NOT you, Leo?

[Celeste]

Moved to Leo.

Would you like me to vote for myself? I will gladly do that. As a matter of fact, moving my vote to me right now since you all are so sure.

VOTE UNCLE LEO.

What the hell Leo?

[Julinook]

Moved to Leo.

Would you like me to vote for myself? I will gladly do that. As a matter of fact, moving my vote to me right now since you all are so sure.

VOTE UNCLE LEO.

If you are a civilian and you lynch yourself with the game on the line, that would be the most petulant, despicable thing I've ever seen in a Mafia game. I have played in a lot of Mafia games.

[Celeste]

Moved to Leo.

Would you like me to vote for myself? I will gladly do that. As a matter of fact, moving my vote to me right now since you all are so sure.

VOTE UNCLE LEO.

If you are a civilian and you lynch yourself with the game on the line, that would be the most petulant, despicable thing I've ever seen in a Mafia game. I have played in a lot of Mafia games.

^ This. If your civ, convince me I'm wrong instead of killing yourself.

[Spooky Ghost]

I am now working under the theory that the remaining two are Whatley/Frank. If Frank has been potentially ID'd as civ, doesn't it make more sense to vote Whatley tonight? (Jerry, I see your vote is currently on Whatley) If Whatley is the Godfather, we know Frank is clear and can spend energy elsewhere. If Whatley is vanillia mafia, we can afford to mis-lynch Frank in pursuit of the Godfather. We run the same risk of getting civ on Whatley as we do Frank. We should at least vote someone who has not been ID'd civ already.

Placing a vote for Whatley now and will be unable to play again until 630pm central. I will be here for end of day discussions and potential vote swap.

I have to admit this is the only Uncle Leo post I feel good about though. It's a good post. Convince me you're THIS person.

[Julinook]

I would like to believe that no civilians out there in the Mafia realm would be so petty as to pursue their own lynch, on purpose, when everyone is still talking things over, when the vote was tied -- because it's not only strategic nonsense, it is just horrible gamesmanship. Nobody I know would do that.

So I'm considering that self-vote a bad look.

[Spooky Ghost]

Moved to Leo.

This is a very VERY bad decision, Jerry.

Why though? Why Jerry in specific?

Because I started from the end and am working back and he was the first I saw to say me.

If the majority changes, I will change my vote.

The majority wasn't on you, it was a tie between you and Whatley. You yourself wanted Whatley gone before Frank, why are you reacting this badly instead of trying to sway things your way?

[Celeste]

[mention]Uncle Leo[/mention] If I vote Frank, what will you do?

[Principal Skinner]

Moved to Leo.

Would you like me to vote for myself? I will gladly do that. As a matter of fact, moving my vote to me right now since you all are so sure.

VOTE UNCLE LEO.

If you are a civilian and you lynch yourself with the game on the line, that would be the most petulant, despicable thing I've ever seen in a Mafia game. I have played in a lot of Mafia games.

What does it matter if my vote is on me if I move it and the majority is still on me? I am being a team player. I am going to vote with the majority. If the majority moves, I will move my vote. You think my vote for me is wrong? I think your vote for me is wrong. I am glad the dialogue about me is open. Hopefully it ends up in some votes moving.

[Julinook]

Moved to Leo.

Would you like me to vote for myself? I will gladly do that. As a matter of fact, moving my vote to me right now since you all are so sure.

VOTE UNCLE LEO.

If you are a civilian and you lynch yourself with the game on the line, that would be the most petulant, despicable thing I've ever seen in a Mafia game. I have played in a lot of Mafia games.

What does it matter if my vote is on me if I move it and the majority is still on me? I am being a team player. I am going to vote with the majority. If the majority moves, I will move my vote. You think my vote for me is wrong? I think your vote for me is wrong. I am glad the dialogue about me is open. Hopefully it ends up in some votes moving.

The majority wasn't on you. The vote was tied. Your self-vote looks like a ploy to scare away voters.

[Principal Skinner]

@Uncle Leo If I vote Frank, what will you do?

If you move your vote to Frank, I will put my vote on you because I think you are the best candidate to be lynched today.

[Spooky Ghost]

It matters because it was a tie. You broke that tie and made it a majority on you.

[Principal Skinner]

Moved to Leo.

Would you like me to vote for myself? I will gladly do that. As a matter of fact, moving my vote to me right now since you all are so sure.

VOTE UNCLE LEO.

If you are a civilian and you lynch yourself with the game on the line, that would be the most petulant, despicable thing I've ever seen in a Mafia game. I have played in a lot of Mafia games.

What does it matter if my vote is on me if I move it and the majority is still on me? I am being a team player. I am going to vote with the majority. If the majority moves, I will move my vote. You think my vote for me is wrong? I think your vote for me is wrong. I am glad the dialogue about me is open. Hopefully it ends up in some votes moving.

The majority wasn't on you. The vote was tied. Your self-vote looks like a ploy to scare away voters.

I am trying to scare away voters from me because I am INNOCENT and if you lynch me, things get really rough, really fast.

[Principal Skinner]

It matters because it was a tie. You broke that tie and made it a majority on you.

Sometimes something drastic is needed. I come back and am shocked to see the tide has turned to me. I thought the move would relatively quickly show that lynching me is a mistake.... apparently I, Uncle Leo, made the mistake in thinking that, but I still believe in the point I was trying to make.

[Nicol Bolas]

Would be hilarious if Jerry is scum though. I mean really, hats off to you. While no one is questioning Elaine and Steinbrenner, you're not even a confirmed PR and no one's questioning your alliance.

It would certainly not be hilarious. I have suspected Jerry many times, some of them with serious intent, and some of them without. Killing that bastard the Soup Nazi was a boneheaded move. Jerry's an idiot, sure, but he's not a bonehead.

[Julinook]

I am trying to scare away voters from me because I am INNOCENT and if you lynch me, things get really rough, really fast.

@Uncle Leo If I vote Frank, what will you do?

If you move your vote to Frank, I will put my vote on you because I think you are the best candidate to be lynched today.

Things that don't make sense in any universe:

Leo wants to lynch Whatley. Leo was tied with Whatley. That final tally has a 50-50 chance of lynching Whatley.

So Leo moves to a self vote. This ensures a 0 chance of lynching Whatley and a 100 chance of lynching himself.

[Principal Skinner]

I am trying to scare away voters from me because I am INNOCENT and if you lynch me, things get really rough, really fast.

@Uncle Leo If I vote Frank, what will you do?

If you move your vote to Frank, I will put my vote on you because I think you are the best candidate to be lynched today.

Things that don't make sense in any universe:

Leo wants to lynch Whatley. Leo was tied with Whatley. That final tally has a 50-50 chance of lynching Whatley.

So Leo moves to a self vote. This ensures a 0 chance of lynching Whatley and a 100 chance of lynching himself.

I had to interrupt things before more experienced and savvy players sent anyone else in the wrong (my) direction. To quote whoever just said this, votes can be changed. It's the final vote that matters. If you don't want me to be lynched, remove your vote from me. That makes sense?! Also someone please PM the list of strategies not allowed to be used in this game and I will avoid all of them in the future. (If possible, please read as sincere and not sarcastic.)

[Principal Skinner]

[Julinook]

I'm playing this from Tawni's computer, and during my pee break I found a tube of fungicide in her medicine cabinet. Should I be concerned about this?