Phenon: Origins Mafia [END]

[Spooky Ghost]

If I die, lynch . . . Echo?

If India was the Disguiser and Echo was the real Oracle then this looks like a weird move. If that were the case then. This post would have been the disguiser telling us to lynch their future self right?

[Spooky Ghost]

If Echo we're the real Oracle then it would have been impossible for us to have been given Oracle results listing him as the Disguiser, because the Oracle cannot self target... and even if they could the oracle's ability is separate from the Disguiser thing, there's no reason why the Disguiser would effect the oracle reveal... Right?

[Principal Skinner]

From the one other time I dealt with the Disguiser role, it functioned as thus : When the Disguiser killed someone, their original account was shown as dying and they took over the account of their actual target. Which would mean India was the original account of the Disguiser and Echo the actual kill last night. Important for when looking at possible connections.

[VOTE: ] aubergine

[VOTE:

...Huh?
Nah. Technically this could be the case but it seems highly unlikely. I'm pretty sure that India was actually the oracle and targeted echo and India was targeted for the kill and echo has been the disguiser the whole time.] aubergine

[Spooky Ghost]

The votes on Echo right now are ABCD, maybe we can keep this alphabet train rolling?

[Grand Scheme]

If Echo we're the real Oracle then it would have been impossible for us to have been given Oracle results listing him as the Disguiser, because the Oracle cannot self target... and even if they could the oracle's ability is separate from the Disguiser thing, there's no reason why the Disguiser would effect the oracle reveal... Right?

This was the problem thst crossed my mind, as would it really be targeting themselves if they were taken over by the Disguiser? How would it work if an Echo that was Oracle targeted the India account that was the Disguiser but is now using the Echo account?

Could just be mafia derped and didn't use their Disguiser, despite their being no reason not to.

[Julinook]

I'm acting under the assumption that India was the oracle and exposed Echo as the disguiser. It might not be totally kosher, but it's in the thread: India's one dead post is looks like a confirmation to me.

[Julinook]

Given that, I am going to squeeze Echo's corpse for all the juiciness it might have to offer.

[Julinook]

Echo and Alpha things

*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

Unless the goal is to put vote pressure on Delta until they post?

That's what I thought the idea of the Delta vote was.

Echo poked Kilo about his vote with spelling dick in mind (the product of Alpha). This doesn't tell me much. If anything, Echo working an irrelevant game activity into a relevant one by challenging votes might reflect decently on Alpha, as Alpha was the source of the irrelevance. That's rather reachy though.

I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab, at Alpha: take my vote until you can come up with a non-dick-related reason to vote someone that I like more than my vote for you. You don't have to waver from your excellent dick plan, but you can't hide behind it.

*vote Alpha*

I think Alpha made himself a bit of an easy target early on with the dick-spelling crusade, and in that regard Echo may have taken the bait here. That'd be a nice look.

This whole exchange looks like Echo trying to explain himself to someone who would actually need an explanation, as in someone not teamed with him.

Conclusion: I don't think they look like teammates.

[Julinook]

[mention]sprityo[/mention] did you happen to keep the Day 1 tally anywhere?

[Julinook]

Echo and Charlie things

I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab, at Alpha: take my vote until you can come up with a non-dick-related reason to vote someone that I like more than my vote for you. You don't have to waver from your excellent dick plan, but you can't hide behind it.

*vote Alpha*

I think Charlie is puffing themselves up to try to seem ultra-civ.

I think "let's stop making jokes and only focusing on killing criminals" is an easy feel-good stance to take in a mafia game, and in Charlie it seems forced.

Ok, well, I'm a letter of my word. That ios better. *vote Charlie*

After giving Alpha crap for the irrelevance of spelling dick, Alpha responded with more substantive content: suspicion of Charlie. Echo promptly jumped on that wagon. Well actually the timestamps show it as a 10 hour difference between the two posts in this quote, but it was still Echo's next post.

Well, both. If I didn't agree, then it wouldn't be a reason for me to vote for him.

Echo reiterated his agreement with Alpha's assessment of Charlie. If nothing else, this represents a carefree attitude about voting a guy who took a lot of crap throughout day 1. I don't think that's typical bussing behavior.

It appears Charlie didn't mention Echo until this phase. I don't fault Charlie for thinking the oracle claim may have been driven by an intent to provide cover, because I also thought that to be a possibility. I'm surprised not to see any prior mentions though given that Echo moved against him, essentially in a piggyback motion alongside Alpha. I'd expect a civilian to protest that in some capacity, or to ask questions.

Conclusion: I'd say they're compatible as teammates, but this content is not indicative that they are teammates.

[Julinook]

Echo and Delta things

*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

Unless the goal is to put vote pressure on Delta until they post?

That's what I thought the idea of the Delta vote was.

That's it. In some scenarios I might say the first post in the top pyramid isn't great because it would be a textbook example of distancing if Kilo is civilian (asking a civilian why they aren't voting for [teammate] to pin them for it later). However, I am hesitant to put a lot of credence in that here when the core inspiration is literally a dick joke.

Conclusion: not enough to make a meaningful judgment.

[Julinook]

Echo and Foxtrot things

*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

This would be the reverse of what I just said about Delta. In this case if they're teammates, Echo is deflecting from Foxtrot to focus on Delta instead, for the sake of the dick joke. Again, I am hesitant to make much of this.

Well, India, I guess we'll see where this gambit gets me. You may be right and you may be wrong.

Welcome Foxtrot - your avatar is the shit!

Generic welcome when Foxtrot joined the action.

I see Foxtrot has also voted Charlie, currently tied with Golf at three votes apiece.

Echo felt the need to make this observation. I don't know what he meant to imply about Foxtrot if anything. Any forced mention wouldn't be great, and this bears that appearance.

I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab, at Alpha: take my vote until you can come up with a non-dick-related reason to vote someone that I like more than my vote for you. You don't have to waver from your excellent dick plan, but you can't hide behind it.

*vote Alpha*

This is dumb. Echo what word do you wanna spell?

This is everything in Foxtrot's posts about Echo that I can see. I don't know what the purpose of the post is.

Conclusion: some of this content appears forced on both sides. I could see it being a teammate interaction.

[Julinook]

Echo and Golf things

I see Foxtrot has also voted Charlie, currently tied with Golf at three votes apiece.

That's it for Echo. The mention of Golf appears circumstantial and means little to me.

I don't see any mentions of Echo in Golf's posts.

Conclusion: not enough to make a meaningful judgment.

[Julinook]

The search function isn't handling single letters on their own well, like when people just call each other by their letters instead of the phonetic term. It's possible I am missing things given that, so yell at me if that's the case.

[Julinook]

Echo and Hotel things

I see no mention of Hotel in Echo's posts.

Reads after quickly skimming the thread:

Town:
A
G
E

Mafia:
C
F

I'll vote to save G.

This is all I can find. Hotel liked Echo after a quick skim. Hotel qualified these as tone reads later. This isn't necessarily an issue, but it does beg expansion now. Please talk about these reads more if you could Hotel as they currently stand, even apart from just Echo.

Conclusion: the one data point doesn't inspire confidence. It doesn't terrify me either. This is inconclusive pending further dialogue.

[Julinook]

Echo and Juliet things

I am literally a cup of coffee.

Pleased to see y'all here.

I already like you better than the other one! jk

Chummy welcome.

On this page so far we have spelled CISPRITYOJIABB, which is one of my absolute favorite words

If we play our cards right, we can fill this game with lots of jibs.

Did I say jib? I meant gibe.

I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab...

That's what is known as a "segue", often misspelled "segway".

Thanks for that?

What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Teammates or not, Juliet's rap does warrant applause.

What was that crap about Juliet being Wilgy, and therefore town?

This one is rather juicy. I don't remember by whom or when that Wilgy thing was said, but I'll look into it after this exercise. Echo felt the need to tear down this notion though without specifically implicating anyone by name who promoted it. My instinct is to explore this as a distancing effort, but then I've also just recalled the no-reveals mechanic and how that muddies the waters. I'll see how the rest looks.

We could have waited for day two to pull that. Then the oracle would have a choice regarding who to reveal. How unfortunate.

And furthermore, since the oracle is vanilla so long as it lives, I would imagine that the bad guys would avoid killing it. And the good guys would avoid lynching it as well.

So, I don't really want to believe you, Echo. I wonder what your motive is. Bad guy, trying to avoid being lynched? Good guy, trying not to get lynched or killed? Or are you a genuine Oracle, though very short-sighted?

It's not short-sighted, it's a pretty, solid plan,
What would you have done if you were dealt that hand?
Do you have some thoughts on why he took this stand?
I think it's legit, and he/she's a cool little can.

If we accept the scenario where India is the oracle and Echo is the disguiser, this is a funny moment. Juliet protested India's protest of Echo's claim, or more accurately the strategy behind the claim. I'm not sure why Juliet felt the claim-on-day-1 plan was a good one.

Conclusion: it doesn't look great at face value. I'd call them compatible teammates.

[Julinook]

Echo and Kilo things

He's dead already, but it's still valuable to see if we can glean anything of his alignment now.

*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

Basically asking Kilo why he isn't helping to spell dick by voting Delta. As I've said, I don't care to analyze this deeply.

Nothing from Kilo about Echo.

Conclusion: not enough to make a meaningful judgment.

[Julinook]

Based on those analyses, given the assumption that Echo is the mafia disguiser, here's a rainbow based both on those interactions and how players look to me at face value.

Alpha
Golf
Charlie
Delta
Hotel
Foxtrot
Juliet
Echo

Dead:
India
Kilo

[Julinook]

Charlie is probably the biggest point of separation between the analytic appearance and my perspective of them at face value. I think technical evidence exists that they could be teamed with Echo, but I am more moved by the genuine appearance of their posts.

[Julinook]

Why not take the 15th consecutive post?

[Julinook]

The Echo lynch might seem like the obvious choice, but it would be lame if we let the phase fetter away quietly while he gets lynched. Complacency is the opposite of ideal, especially in a game where the analytic power of the civilians is diminished by the mechanics. Let's use our time effectively. Tell me what you think of my interaction checks. Give your own reads. Say things about the mafia game. Say things in general. Escape from the harshness of cruel reality in this message board forum thread.

[Grand Scheme]

The most suspicious thing from last day phase was Foxtrot's change from apathy towards the setup to pushing pretty hard on a few people and making the connections between players that he was saying wouldn't be there with no flips. Would currently be my choice for next days lynch.

[Spooky Ghost]

Even though I couldn't complete my personal "let's spell dick" mission I'm really proud that it is now being brought up as an event worthy of reading people's alignments based on.

I'm finding myself agreeing with a lot of Bravo's thoughts on potential Echo ties.

[Principal Skinner]

Nice analysis Bravo. I'd definitely be down to vote for Juliets next phase or maybe Foxtrot (I can't quite put my finger on how I feel about Foxtrot yet)

[Principal Skinner]

Juliet* lol

[Spooky Ghost]

It's kinda weird that everyone that isn't an a passing grade letter just vanished off the face of the earth.

[sprityo]

@sprityo did you happen to keep the Day 1 tally anywhere?

I did not

The vote split was 1,2,1,4 but that’s as far as I remember

I’ll be sure to get it next time

[Principal Skinner]

yeah where the heck is everyone? although I just remembered that we have 48 hour days, not 24 so this isn't ending now

[mention]sprityo[/mention] why isn't the poll showing the deadline??

[Spooky Ghost]

We can probably reconstruct the poll if we work together and believe in each other. I voted for...... Delta

[Julinook]

I voted Kilo.

[sprityo]

yeah where the heck is everyone? although I just remembered that we have 48 hour days, not 24 so this isn't ending now

@sprityo why isn't the poll showing the deadline??

idk how to do that to be honest

I just hop on at 10pm est to lock the thread

[Celeste]

Sup y'all!!! Dr. J is back in the house.

My new album was not a hit, so I've left the music biz in pursuit of other things to grind my bling. But before I completely pack my bags, I'll address my critics.

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

I dislike this post. It says nothing.

[mention]Juliet[/mention], rap is cool and fun and I'm glad you're doing it. It's also going to make it harder for you to communicate and harder for us to read you. I know this is maybe antithetical to your rap strategy but if you could include a tl;dr at the end of your rap verses I would appreciate it.

India is a blunt letter. An immediate response of antagonism, but pulling no punches. I like that.

Alpha on the other hand, came in with an ambivalent approach. Agreeing with India, yet being wishy-washy to the rhymes. Not cool! Additionally, Alpha was chilling around, laying other posts on the thread after my above-quoted track, with no response to yours truly. Bad jazz for you Alpha-friend.

Especially with the immediate agreement with India, and the immediate vote-vote.

I'd be okay with a Juliet vote.

And to answer Bravo-Man-Burrito:

Spoiler: show

What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Juliet, why do you feel it is prudent to prioritize an MIA lynch over a K lynch specifically?

Let the talkers keep talking and eliminate the quiet ones who may never answer your pleas.

Spoiler: show

I have no issue with Juliet's choice to rap. I believe I inspired it.

Lack of content is lack of content.

The arrogance is strong in this one.

Spoiler: show

Also if we lynch the Oracle it's worthless anyways.

What do you think about someone claiming to be the Oracle?



Also, the guy who said this:

Spoiler: show

Next letter to complain about game mechanics will earn my eternal ire.

previously asked this:

Spoiler: show

There is no reveal upon death of any kind

Hey wait so how do we do this? How do we..... anything?

Alpha's gotta go.



Also, I see India's dead. Amazing! He/she's a badass.

[Celeste]

Wow, the line breaks in the post are uuuuuugly.

[Spooky Ghost]

Juliet what's ambivalent about me telling you to speak more clearly? Assuming someone is bad just because they're incomprehensible isn't my jam. I'd rather give you an opportunity to speak more clearly and see if you take it.

[mention]Juliet[/mention] do you have any updated thoughts on the India/Echo thing?

[Spooky Ghost]

Also there's a significant difference between being dismayed at there being no info flips and flipping the table over and complaining there was no point in playing because we aren't being rewarded with information.

[Celeste]

Your stance was ambivalent. You agreed with India's response, asked me to speak more clearly, but immediately turned that into a vote. It looks opportunistic considering I already had a vote.

You immediate response and then-after vote do not line up in my eyes.

No I don't, I'm not fully caught up on the goings-on there.

[Celeste]

Also there's a significant difference between being dismayed at there being no info flips and flipping the table over and complaining there was no point in playing because we aren't being rewarded with information.

You took some liberties in writing a dramatic quote while accusing several other unnamed people of saying such things.

Oh no, this game is a little bit difficult. I guess we should all just give up, and stop trying to win forever.

It's only day 1, why are you guys already deciding what we can't do?

Then you stated those people would receive your ire for saying such a thing again.

Next letter to complain about game mechanics will earn my eternal ire.

So who flipped a table over and how did they do it and how is that different from what you said?

[Spooky Ghost]

J, this is a really weird wagon for you to hitch your horse to considering you just claimed you weren't caught up yet.

People were acting like babies and complaining about how the game wasn't fair and wouldn't be able to keep their interest. It became this whole thing and Sprityo intervened and had everyone vote for whether or not future lynches would include flips.

I was upset that people were giving up so easily, and weren't willing to try out Sprityo's vision just cus it was unfamiliar to them. I was also unhappy that our only power role had apparently leveraged their role's utility (giving us information) in order to keep from getting killed, but that turned out to have been false.

I complained that the game might be hard but I never gave up, and I also didn't just stop posting for three days straight. I'm still here playing because I believe we can win this game, and even if we can't I'm going to have fun or die trying.

[Spooky Ghost]

Also there's a significant difference between being dismayed at there being no info flips and flipping the table over and complaining there was no point in playing because we aren't being rewarded with information.

You took some liberties in writing a dramatic quote while accusing several other unnamed people of saying such things.

Oh no, this game is a little bit difficult. I guess we should all just give up, and stop trying to win forever.

It's only day 1, why are you guys already deciding what we can't do?

Then you stated those people would receive your ire for saying such a thing again.

Next letter to complain about game mechanics will earn my eternal ire.

So who flipped a table over and how did they do it and how is that different from what you said?

Complaining about players complaining about game mechanics and giving up is not the same thing as complaining about game mechanics.

I didn't name the players directly cus I didn't want it to get personal and it wasn't suspicion related, I just wanted to end the toxicity before it spread. If you're really curious about who was complaining you can read it yourself.

[Echo]

Catching up now, apologies for the absence!

[Echo]

Okay, voting Echo because why not. Need to finish catching up and then hopefully can provide some reads. This has been a tough setup to get my mind around.

[Echo]

I voted Kilo as well FWIW.

[Spooky Ghost]

No I am not bad. But frankly I joined this game to help fill the game out, so lynch me if you want. I won't cry over it, especially given the fact that there are no flips. I think it's unlikely the civs can possibly win this so whatever. I'm pretty uninvested.

Also, why would I distance from teammates like that if there are no flips? This is what I was trying to decide about Kilo...

Alright so.... What does that mean?

Means I no longer give a shit.

Too stressful to care about a game that doesn't reward you with info anyways.

I just wanna have a good time and spell funny words. Like... FIB and.... and IF

Let RNG hunt down mafia.

Linki - and here comes I to rain on F's parade.

There seems to be an issue. Perhaps the limited power roles were more a detriment to the setup rules than anything?

I will poll tonight if you all wish for me to reveal alignments upon lynches

But nothing more than that

Apologies for the discomfort

These were the posts I was talking about. This is the toxicity I wanted to nip in the bud. I didn't like the whiney attitude and it seemed unfair to sprityo.

Also:

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

Forcing a player and imposing your will?
Calm your jets man, sit back and chill
I can't be arsed to take your pill
I'll play as a I like, and enjoy it still

*votes Juliets*

I'll play as I like as well.

What I like is encouraging open and honest communication and pressuring players to contribute more.

My vote for you was completely fair. I asked you to alter your gimmick to be more communication friendly and you refused to do so, so I placed my vote on you as added motivation to communicate more and also better. My vote didn't even stay on you so I don't really understand what your complaint is.

[Echo]

Alpha and Bravo are supatown. If either one is bad, we're doomed.

[Echo]

Bravo, regarding your interaction analysis of Charlie and Echo, I think it seems pretty unlikely that they're teammates.

[Celeste]

Okay, voting Echo because why not. Need to finish catching up and then hopefully can provide some reads. This has been a tough setup to get my mind around.

What part are you having trouble getting your mind around?

[Echo]

The search function isn't handling single letters on their own well, like when people just call each other by their letters instead of the phonetic term. It's possible I am missing things given that, so yell at me if that's the case.

Duly noted, I'll try to use only full names going forward. My bad.

[Celeste]

No I am not bad. But frankly I joined this game to help fill the game out, so lynch me if you want. I won't cry over it, especially given the fact that there are no flips. I think it's unlikely the civs can possibly win this so whatever. I'm pretty uninvested.

Also, why would I distance from teammates like that if there are no flips? This is what I was trying to decide about Kilo...

Alright so.... What does that mean?

Means I no longer give a shit.

Too stressful to care about a game that doesn't reward you with info anyways.

I just wanna have a good time and spell funny words. Like... FIB and.... and IF

Let RNG hunt down mafia.

Linki - and here comes I to rain on F's parade.

There seems to be an issue. Perhaps the limited power roles were more a detriment to the setup rules than anything?

I will poll tonight if you all wish for me to reveal alignments upon lynches

But nothing more than that

Apologies for the discomfort

These were the posts I was talking about. This is the toxicity I wanted to nip in the bud. I didn't like the whiney attitude and it seemed unfair to sprityo.

Also:

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

Forcing a player and imposing your will?
Calm your jets man, sit back and chill
I can't be arsed to take your pill
I'll play as a I like, and enjoy it still

*votes Juliets*

I'll play as I like as well.

What I like is encouraging open and honest communication and pressuring players to contribute more.

My vote for you was completely fair. I asked you to alter your gimmick to be more communication friendly and you refused to do so, so I placed my vote on you as added motivation to communicate more and also better. My vote didn't even stay on you so I don't really understand what your complaint is.

Thanks for pulling that quote. I missed that post originally.

[Echo]

Okay, voting Echo because why not. Need to finish catching up and then hopefully can provide some reads. This has been a tough setup to get my mind around.

What part are you having trouble getting your mind around?

The disguiser role is still somewhat confusing to me, but I'm taking your all's word for it and rolling with it. The lack of flips is very bizarre and I have no idea what to do with it. And maybe it's the sockpuppets too, but I've just been having trouble understanding pretty much anything so far.

[Echo]

Echo and Hotel things

I see no mention of Hotel in Echo's posts.

Reads after quickly skimming the thread:

Town:
A
G
E

Mafia:
C
F

I'll vote to save G.

This is all I can find. Hotel liked Echo after a quick skim. Hotel qualified these as tone reads later. This isn't necessarily an issue, but it does beg expansion now. Please talk about these reads more if you could Hotel as they currently stand, even apart from just Echo.

Conclusion: the one data point doesn't inspire confidence. It doesn't terrify me either. This is inconclusive pending further dialogue.

Sorry, not sure what else I can do to qualify it, but I can try. My reads were really weak at that stage (and still sort of are I think, but whatever), I was just trying to force myself to commit to at least some things. Alpha seemed genuinely supatown, Golf seemed genuine (given I know who is behind the sock, the frustration regarding receiving negative attention as well as the setup's lack of flips rang true), and Echo seemed genuine (not knowing who is behind the sock, but I liked the "jabs" and attempts to generate discussion when reading through the beginning of the game).

Charlie (not knowing who was behind the sock but I think I have a solid idea now) seemed maybe insincere but I've since come to terms with that and don't have any particular concerns. and I felt wary of Foxtrot because they seemed insincere as well, and I'm not quite sure how I feel about them still. Need to ISO them probably.