Phenon: Origins Mafia [END]

[Julinook]

People I wouldn't vote for today: Alpha, India, Juliet

[Julinook]

We only get information if the Oracle gets nightkilled. As information-starved letters, the clear path is to out the Oracle so that they can be nightkilled. I am the Oracle.

I don't get it. Why claim that right now?

[Julinook]

Kilo, I hereby accuse you of placing a flier vote on a non-checker-inner for the sake of appearing loose with your vote and not for the sake of doing anything productive with it.

Bravo, I nearby accuse you of being cute.

What say you to these charges?

You're nearby?

[Spooky Ghost]

I am concerned. I know this is day one. Ordinarily, for example, if four players vote for Charlie and he flips bad, conclusions can be drawn about those 4 players regardless of how strong their convictions were.

In this game there are no flips. So the only thing we can use to judge people's character is their reasons for voting whomever.

[Julinook]

Please explain.

My internet was down for the better part of the day yesterday, which is why I was absent. I'm casting a vote for Charlie.

Why Charlie?

[Principal Skinner]

I've a theory. I want Charlie to answer to your assertion as well as Alpha's before I proceed.

I'd said this in response to the assertion that Charlie's posh language was a concern. My theory was just that he was adopting that kind of language for the sake of it, i.e. for fun. Charlie's comment corroborates that more or less:

Ok lemme just go ahead and say I'mma not do that fancy posh verbiage heavy style. At first I was thinkin I was gonna do a different style every post and just keep changin' up the way I speak, but thinking about it now in light of india's thoughts, that's probably not the right choice here and would just make it easier for the disguiser. So I'll try to settle into a more normal style.

Alpha and India, I kind of get why you voted for me, but I wasn't trying to hide behind the style (well kind of in that I think it's fun to see how long one's sock puppet can last without being obviously identified as one's own style) I was just having a bit of fun with it. Alpha, I don't actually think you're particularly suspicious after all as you are one of the most active so far and your jokeyness is genuine. Thus I'll change my vote, not to a non-poster but to someone who has at least checked in but has not yet participated much. IIRC Golf fits that description.

I'm not thrilled though at this, Charlie. After stepping away from your Alpha accusation, you defaulted to the low-poster option (specifically the one who checked in). The strategy isn't necessarily a bad one, but it's better left for late in a day when other conversations have not produced a more substantial suspicion. I'm not sure you did much to encourage that conversation.

That's fair. As I said, my main reason for voting then was that I wanted to move my vote off of Alpha. Now that Golf is back I feel a little bad about it, but unfortunately it's now a tie with me so I am incentivized to keep my vote on G unless something more promising comes up. So, now that there's been a little bit more discussion, do you have any suggestions? I don't, honestly.

[Spooky Ghost]

How long until day phase ends?

[Julinook]

I am concerned. I know this is day one. Ordinarily, for example, if four players vote for Charlie and he flips bad, conclusions can be drawn about those 4 players regardless of how strong their convictions were.

In this game there are no flips. So the only thing we can use to judge people's character is their reasons for voting whomever.

This dynamic definitely poses a unique challenge, but I don't think we're quite so handicapped as that. Any post can be judged in the ways they might be judged in any other game. The feedback on those judgments (corrective or affirmative) won't happen, but we can still make them. Also, as India has discussed: the disguiser role appears very powerful but it also provides angles of investigation. Whoever has that role may have to play this game in a way that does not come naturally to them, by impersonation in addition to whatever other usual strategic intentions. That's something that can be hunted.

[Principal Skinner]

Man, having lynches with no flips is gonna be weird as heck.

[Julinook]

That's fair. As I said, my main reason for voting then was that I wanted to move my vote off of Alpha. Now that Golf is back I feel a little bad about it, but unfortunately it's now a tie with me so I am incentivized to keep my vote on G unless something more promising comes up. So, now that there's been a little bit more discussion, do you have any suggestions? I don't, honestly.

I suspect Kilo. I'll say why in more substantive terms shortly.

[Principal Skinner]

[mention]sprityo[/mention] when the disguiser does its thing, will that player have to keep playing as themself as well as the disguised victim at the same time?

if so i feel kinda bad for that person, that sounds hard and stressful making sure I'm logged into the one sockpuppet is stressful enough, and the disguiser will have to post enough for two players. Bravo definitely has a point, I think the disguiser should be something we'll be able to tell based on style and maybe even frequency or timing of posts

[Paprika]

We only get information if the Oracle gets nightkilled. As information-starved letters, the clear path is to out the Oracle so that they can be nightkilled. I am the Oracle.

I don't get it. Why claim that right now?

Why not now?

By the way, you guys just did a double ABC. Great work!!

[Julinook]

I'm ready and willing to spell out dick.

Well fuck those guys then eh?

*Foxtrot*

It's a small point because entry posts from a sock can only be judged at face value. Kilo was gleeful to dive right into "fuck around" mode when given the opportunity (first by Alpha re: spelling dick and second by Alpha identifying those who hadn't checked in).

*Foxtrot*

Hey Kilo, talk to me about what this vote means to you. Share your deepest, most personal feelings about this vote. Let your emotions run free over me. Or just tell me what you'd like for it to accomplish.

This is a vote that is near and dear to my heart. It's meaning is metaphysical.

My question was a serious one. Instead of answering it, Kilo played into the goofy language I elected to use to ask it.

Now that I think about it, I don't like C voting G very much.

You complain about ties, while turning a X way tie into an X+1 way tie? Why? For everything to dislike about ties, this is worse. For everything to like about ties, this is no better.

C, tell me more about your vote. I have theories.

This one seems rather bunk to me. Charlie commented on the voting spread and then noted that there is still plenty of time. The alternative assertion here would be that Charlie would have then had to force himself to vote for whoever among those already with a vote, and I don't think that's a reasonable product of what Charlie said. Kilo's accusation is based on a dubious notion of inconsistency/hypocrisy and I'm not into it.

[Julinook]

Why not now?

I question the strategic utility and the sensibility of blurting the claim as you did.

[Paprika]

I think it's less likely the Mafia will kill me because they don't want info out there. Also, it was a little spontaneous. Tell me about a better way for more strategic utility.

[Julinook]

I think it's less likely the Mafia will kill me because they don't want info out there. Also, it was a little spontaneous. Tell me about a better way for more strategic utility.

The spontaneity I won't argue. The first thing you said there is my concern. If that comes to fruition the role is useless, right?

[Principal Skinner]

B, I'll join you in voting K. Though I hope some of the me-voters do too.

[Principal Skinner]

And I did say justification was important so I should qualify that vote change. I like Bravo's perspective on Kilo and I can see scum potential in the level of K's participation, which is not too much and not too little. I don't actually suspect Golf that much now that they have returned and claimed bad internet, so I want to vote for someone more in the mid-posting range because scum often blend in like that. And since B is already voting there it has somewhat more chance of competing with my current lead in votes.

[Spooky Ghost]

I don't necessarily see my vote staying on Charlie. My issue with Charlie was their puffed up civvie pride attitude not being backed up by any actually scum hunting footwork. Now that they've actually done some stuff it doesn't look quite as damning.

[Celeste]

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

[Lunatella]

Please explain.

My internet was down for the better part of the day yesterday, which is why I was absent. I'm casting a vote for Charlie.

Why Charlie?

Self preservation. Plus I know I am civilian so that means it's entirely possible that the bandwagon formed on me to protect Charlie.

[Chuck]

I think it's less likely the Mafia will kill me because they don't want info out there. Also, it was a little spontaneous. Tell me about a better way for more strategic utility.

I already have given you a more strategic way to utilize this role, in my initial response. Do you lack the ability to do so? Or the desire?

[Julinook]

The poll is wacked up right now. It shows 3-3-2, but the names I see should make it 3-3-3.

[sprityo]

@sprityo when the disguiser does its thing, will that player have to keep playing as themself as well as the disguised victim at the same time?

if so i feel kinda bad for that person, that sounds hard and stressful making sure I'm logged into the one sockpuppet is stressful enough, and the disguiser will have to post enough for two players. Bravo definitely has a point, I think the disguiser should be something we'll be able to tell based on style and maybe even frequency or timing of posts

simply put: Someone has to die because someone is always killed

[Julinook]

Please explain.

My internet was down for the better part of the day yesterday, which is why I was absent. I'm casting a vote for Charlie.

Why Charlie?

Self preservation. Plus I know I am civilian so that means it's entirely possible that the bandwagon formed on me to protect Charlie.

Do you have any reads on the people voting for you?

[Lunatella]

No unfortunately I do not.

[Julinook]

No unfortunately I do not.

Is that a product of not knowing what to do with what they've said, not having caught up, or something else?

[Spooky Ghost]

Placing my vote on Kilo basically to see what happens. I'm interested in what reactions might come out of a 3-way tie here.

[Spooky Ghost]

The poll is wacked up right now. It shows 3-3-2, but the names I see should make it 3-3-3.

I think I broke the poll when I switched my vote.... I moved it around a bunch to see if vote order had been implemented yet and now it's broken.

[Julinook]

Placing my vote on Kilo basically to see what happens. I'm interested in what reactions might come out of a 3-way tie here.

Do you have any perspective to share on the suspicions I stated about Kilo?

[sprityo]

The poll is wacked up right now. It shows 3-3-2, but the names I see should make it 3-3-3.

i see what you mean, I do not know the issue

[Lunatella]

No unfortunately I do not.

Is that a product of not knowing what to do with what they've said, not having caught up, or something else?

Mostly the second. I mean, I've read anything but I don't know it's just not sunk in or nothing has really stuck out as anything. I struggle with Day 1 and there was a lot of fuff in there. I mean voting over DICK? Seems frivolous to me. Typical Day 1 reasoning.

[Principal Skinner]

Ah that makes a lot of sense sprityo, thanks

[Chuck]

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

I dislike this post. It says nothing.

[Spooky Ghost]

Placing my vote on Kilo basically to see what happens. I'm interested in what reactions might come out of a 3-way tie here.

Do you have any perspective to share on the suspicions I stated about Kilo?

I think they're solid for day 1, and I think Kilo has shown a relatively low civvie drive.

Also, I keep confusing you and Charlie for some reason.

[Spooky Ghost]

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

I dislike this post. It says nothing.

[mention]Juliet[/mention], rap is cool and fun and I'm glad you're doing it. It's also going to make it harder for you to communicate and harder for us to read you. I know this is maybe antithetical to your rap strategy but if you could include a tl;dr at the end of your rap verses I would appreciate it.

[Chuck]

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

I dislike this post. It says nothing.

Judging by my time spent isolating Juliet and reading, this post was not an outlier. Juliet's posts suffer from a lack of original content. Agreement and disagreement do not a dialogue make. The most helpful post of Juliet was a prod toward me. Even then, I was looking for opinion and conversation, and Juliet provided neither.

I will be happy with a Juliet vote for the time being. Please do tell me if you see the same.

linki: I do not think the rap is the problem. There is no content to tl;dr.

[Spooky Ghost]

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

[Spooky Ghost]

I'd be okay with a Juliet vote.

[Chuck]

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

Okay. This does make sense.

[Julinook]

Re: Juliet, I've appreciated that the rapping exists at all. In light of the discussion of ways to make life harder for the disguiser, such as adopting a distinctive style which will be more difficult for an interloper to replicate, the rapping method seems like an applicable effort.

I can at least agree that the hunting effort contained within the rapping is limited.

[Julinook]

What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Juliet, why do you feel it is prudent to prioritize an MIA lynch over a K lynch specifically?

[Julinook]

Every time I type Juliet in this game, my fingers try to jump to the "s" at the end.

[Chuck]

I have no issue with Juliet's choice to rap. I believe I inspired it.

Lack of content is lack of content.

[Kent Brockman]

I agree with India that justifying votes is important. Some of the votes for me have not really been justified. I am particularly concerned with Foxtrot, who appeared to vote for me while in the midst of a catch-up and then failed to acknowledge my later posts. F, please elaborate and/or reconsider.

It's simple. I didn't like your post. Your if ands or buts is irrelevant to me.

Anyone can backtrack.

[Spooky Ghost]

What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Juliet, why do you feel it is prudent to prioritize an MIA lynch over a K lynch specifically?

If you translate this post from rap back into plain English it's actually just Juliet saying hello and then making a short list of non-active players.

[Kent Brockman]

So... what's the point of uninformed lynching that gets us no Intel?

I say we just no lynch until 7 of us remain then be right. That's the safest way to give the Doc and the Oracle time to info gather.

[Kent Brockman]

Also if we lynch the Oracle it's worthless anyways.

[Kent Brockman]

Idk. There's no reason to lynch in this set up. I'd much rather wait till end game and take the 50% without ruining the Oracle's chances of getting us info and by then we should be able to analyze team interactions.

[Paprika]

We could have waited for day two to pull that. Then the oracle would have a choice regarding who to reveal. How unfortunate.

And furthermore, since the oracle is vanilla so long as it lives, I would imagine that the bad guys would avoid killing it. And the good guys would avoid lynching it as well.

So, I don't really want to believe you, Echo. I wonder what your motive is. Bad guy, trying to avoid being lynched? Good guy, trying not to get lynched or killed? Or are you a genuine Oracle, though very short-sighted?

India, you act like I'm supposed to be taking your advice on how to be the Oracle. I'm... supposed to wait until Day 2 to reveal I'm the Oracle now?

I don't even understand what you are talking about when you say "We could have waited for day two to pull that. Then the oracle would have a choice regarding who to reveal." The Oracle has a choice on any night they are killed... Day 2 just as much as Day 1.

Plus, I was asking Bravo. He says there's better Oracle strategies, and I want to hear them. Is he just saying that to take a stance on something, or does he really have better strategies in mind? If he just wants to scold me so that he's a scolder and I'm the scolded, f that. None of that is considered when you jump back in and shove your ideas back into my face.